About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first
floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was
always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install
a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.
The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light
could not be seen otherwise.

Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but
insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to
discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the
tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he
connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable
going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.

At the time I thought this was a terrible code violation, but I didn't
say anything to the landlord. 40 years later the house is still
standing. It never burned down because of that code violation. Of
course those neons draw less than one watt, so I guess it's not really
dangerous, but still a code violation none the less....

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:

About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first
floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was
always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install
a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.
The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light
could not be seen otherwise.

Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but
insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to
discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the
tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he
connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable
going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.

A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light
may be.

At the time I thought this was a terrible code violation, but I didn't
say anything to the landlord. 40 years later the house is still
standing. It never burned down because of that code violation. Of
course those neons draw less than one watt, so I guess it's not really
dangerous, but still a code violation none the less....

Anecdote data, HomoGay.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:

About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first
floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was
always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install
a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.
The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light
could not be seen otherwise.

Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but
insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to
discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the
tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he
connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable
going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.

A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light
may be.


You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?



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On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?



I guess I need to clearify this. It was one of those stackable
switches, not one where the switch "handle" lights up. It was a
separate RED indicator below the switch. and the switch operated
sideways (horizontal). This red light lit up when the switch was turned
on. A neutral IS needed.

BTW. What are those "stackable" switch/outlets called anyhow?

On 1/26/2014 3:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?



I guess I need to clearify this. It was one of those stackable
switches, not one where the switch "handle" lights up. It was a
separate RED indicator below the switch. and the switch operated
sideways (horizontal). This red light lit up when the switch was turned
on. A neutral IS needed.

BTW. What are those "stackable" switch/outlets called anyhow?


I think you are referring to "Despard" switches like these images:
https://www.google.com/search?q=desp...w=1427&bih=907

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:47:57 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:



About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first

floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was

always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install

a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.

The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light

could not be seen otherwise.



Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but

insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to

discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the

tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he

connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable

going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.



A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light

may be.





You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted

switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is

not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is

on.



Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on

when only one side is connected ?



I haven't looked for a lighted switch in many years, but last
time I did, it wasn't that some switches would only light if
they were off, it was that I couldn't find one that worked
the other way around. All the lighted toggle switches I
looked at were as you say, lit when off and that's why
they didn't need a neutral. I'm sure there are ones that
work the other way, but I sure couldn't find them at HD, Lowes,
etc and I would bet they need a neutral.

" wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:47:57 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:



About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first

floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was

always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install

a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.

The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light

could not be seen otherwise.



Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but

insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to

discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the

tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he

connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable

going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.



A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light

may be.





You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted

switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is

not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is

on.



Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on

when only one side is connected ?



I haven't looked for a lighted switch in many years, but last
time I did, it wasn't that some switches would only light if
they were off, it was that I couldn't find one that worked
the other way around. All the lighted toggle switches I
looked at were as you say, lit when off and that's why
they didn't need a neutral. I'm sure there are ones that
work the other way, but I sure couldn't find them at HD, Lowes,
etc and I would bet they need a neutral.

I installed one of these for my elderly parents when I replaced their
Garbage Disposal so that they could visual see that the GD was on. I can
hardly hear mine with the water running so I wanted to make sure they know
when their's is on.

http://willnicholes.com/images/switches/pilot-large.jpg

The light is on when the switch is on, but it does require a neutral. I had
to rewire the switch because the original switch box had no neutral.

Seems to me that there isn't much demand for a switch itself that lights
when it's on. I thought the idea behind a lighted toggle is to make it
visible when it's dark so you can find it. If the area around the switch is
already lit up, the lighted toggle probably isn't bright enough to be
easily seen. That's why the brighter pilot light style like the one above
it used.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:

About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first
floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was
always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install
a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.
The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light
could not be seen otherwise.

Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but
insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to
discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the
tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he
connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable
going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.

A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light
may be.


You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

He wants to know when the attic light is on. Does it really matter
the polarity of the logic?

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?

Irrelevant, of course.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:54:10 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?



I guess I need to clearify this. It was one of those stackable
switches, not one where the switch "handle" lights up. It was a
separate RED indicator below the switch. and the switch operated
sideways (horizontal). This red light lit up when the switch was turned
on. A neutral IS needed.

So use the sort that has the lighted handle. If the light is out,
your attic isn't. If it's on, it's a night light.

BTW. What are those "stackable" switch/outlets called anyhow?

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:22:45 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:47:57 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:



About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first

floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was

always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install

a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.

The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light

could not be seen otherwise.



Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but

insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to

discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the

tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he

connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable

going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.



A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light

may be.





You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted

switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is

not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is

on.



Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on

when only one side is connected ?



I haven't looked for a lighted switch in many years, but last
time I did, it wasn't that some switches would only light if
they were off, it was that I couldn't find one that worked
the other way around. All the lighted toggle switches I
looked at were as you say, lit when off and that's why
they didn't need a neutral. I'm sure there are ones that
work the other way, but I sure couldn't find them at HD, Lowes,
etc and I would bet they need a neutral.

The ones that have the light on with the switch on have a pilot light
next to the switch. Yes, they need a neutral but why not the lighted
handle sort? The mental inversion shouldn't be too tough for even
HomoGay.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:54:10 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted
switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is
not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is
on.

Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on
when only one side is connected ?



I guess I need to clearify this. It was one of those stackable
switches, not one where the switch "handle" lights up. It was a
separate RED indicator below the switch. and the switch operated
sideways (horizontal). This red light lit up when the switch was turned
on. A neutral IS needed.

BTW. What are those "stackable" switch/outlets called anyhow?

Switch with pilot light. Used to be real common for "cellar" lights,
and garage lights,
They are also handy to monitor power on "critical" circuits - anything
you need to be able to tell at a glance oif it is left turned on
(exhaust fans, pomps, you name it)

Leviton still makes them - 5226 for standard and 5626 for Decora
style.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 14:54:10 -0600, wrote:


BTW. What are those "stackable" switch/outlets called anyhow?

Switch with pilot light. Used to be real common for "cellar" lights,
and garage lights,
They are also handy to monitor power on "critical" circuits - anything
you need to be able to tell at a glance oif it is left turned on
(exhaust fans, pomps, you name it)


And really quiet garbage disposals for elderly parents.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:35:59 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:


I think you are referring to "Despard" switches like these images:
https://www.google.com/search?q=desp...firefox-a&hs=D
zY&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=W3_ lU
sLoHIaF2AWawIHoDg&ved=0CE8QsAQ&biw=1427&bih=907

Yep, those are the ones.......

buy a neon lamp and locate it near the switch

radio shack still sells them

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 01:24:48 -0500, wrote:

At the time I thought this was a terrible code violation, but I didn't
say anything to the landlord. 40 years later the house is still
standing. It never burned down because of that code violation. Of
course those neons draw less than one watt, so I guess it's not really
dangerous, but still a code violation none the less....

The neon lighted switch was the reason for the 500 microamp exception
to using the ground for a neutral existed in the listing standard;. As
long as the series resistor is around a meg ohm you get in under 500
UA easily.
They removed that well over a decade ago tho. It was never
specifically allowed in the NEC but as long as it was internal to a
listed device you could do it. (manufactured grounding the neon to the
yoke).
Now you can't even make a switch like that and they have a white wire
coming out.

So you're saying it was legal to connect it to the box ground years ago.
This was around 1978 when my landlord did it. That was what I was
trying to find out. Not that it matters anymore, I moved out of that
house long ago, but I was wondering about it all these years. I know
those neons draw so little power that it's almost not worth mentioning
it in the NEC, but I know these days they tend to go overboard with a
lot of stuff.

Those cheap neon testers will light from any source if there is power,
and the box ground is common for testing. I seriously can not imagine
one of them starting a fire, no matter how they are grounded.
I have not seen them in the stores for years, but I have not looked for
one either. Today they are probably LEDs. Those neons did tend to burn
out after several years. I guess the gas inside them just vaporizes or
something.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 01:27:38 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 01:24:48 -0500, wrote:

At the time I thought this was a terrible code violation, but I didn't
say anything to the landlord. 40 years later the house is still
standing. It never burned down because of that code violation. Of
course those neons draw less than one watt, so I guess it's not really
dangerous, but still a code violation none the less....

The neon lighted switch was the reason for the 500 microamp exception
to using the ground for a neutral existed in the listing standard;. As
long as the series resistor is around a meg ohm you get in under 500
UA easily.
They removed that well over a decade ago tho. It was never
specifically allowed in the NEC but as long as it was internal to a
listed device you could do it. (manufactured grounding the neon to the
yoke).
Now you can't even make a switch like that and they have a white wire
coming out.

So you're saying it was legal to connect it to the box ground years ago.
This was around 1978 when my landlord did it. That was what I was
trying to find out. Not that it matters anymore, I moved out of that
house long ago, but I was wondering about it all these years. I know
those neons draw so little power that it's almost not worth mentioning
it in the NEC, but I know these days they tend to go overboard with a
lot of stuff.

1978 was like yesterday, man.
The code was likely changed in the early seventies.

Those cheap neon testers will light from any source if there is power,
and the box ground is common for testing. I seriously can not imagine
one of them starting a fire, no matter how they are grounded.
I have not seen them in the stores for years, but I have not looked for
one either. Today they are probably LEDs. Those neons did tend to burn
out after several years. I guess the gas inside them just vaporizes or
something.

You didn't even need a ground. I used to tie one end of an Ne2 to the
end of my CB antenna and it would light when I keyed the mic.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:19:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

wrote:





wrote in message

.. .

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:



About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first

floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was

always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install

a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.

The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light

could not be seen otherwise.



Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but

insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to

discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the

tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he

connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable

going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.



A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light

may be.





You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted

switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is

not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is

on.



He wants to know when the attic light is on. Does it really matter

the polarity of the logic?



I think it does matter. Virtually any appliance, etc that I can
think of, when the device is running, active, etc, any associated
light is on, not the other way around. You get accustomed to that
association and having it reversed is likely to result in confusion
and the light being left on.




Without a neutral or other return how would the light on the switch come on

when only one side is connected ?



Irrelevant, of course.

wrote in message
...

I think it does matter. Virtually any appliance, etc that I can
think of, when the device is running, active, etc, any associated
light is on, not the other way around. You get accustomed to that
association and having it reversed is likely to result in confusion
and the light being left on.

The way we think can get us into trouble. I worked as an electrician at a
large plant. The old large switches on the electrical panels made in the
US used green for on and red for off. We started getting in some equipment
from other countries. They decided to use an opposit standard. Red ment
the circuit was on and dangerous. Green ment the power was off and it was
safe to open the door. From then on they might as well painted everything
pink. Confusing standards are more dangerous than no standard.



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wrote in message
...

Those cheap neon testers will light from any source if there is power,
and the box ground is common for testing. I seriously can not imagine
one of them starting a fire, no matter how they are grounded.
I have not seen them in the stores for years, but I have not looked for
one either. Today they are probably LEDs. Those neons did tend to burn
out after several years. I guess the gas inside them just vaporizes or
something.


I don't think the bulb would ever burn out or seldom go bad. Most neon
bulbs are rated for many thousands of on hours. As most tests only take a
few seconds, it would take many years for the bulb to go bad.

At work there were many of us that had them and most of the ones that went
bad were because of physical damage. They were used on voltages up to 480
volts..




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On 1/27/2014 9:36 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

wrote in message
...

I think it does matter. Virtually any appliance, etc that I can
think of, when the device is running, active, etc, any associated
light is on, not the other way around. You get accustomed to that
association and having it reversed is likely to result in confusion
and the light being left on.

The way we think can get us into trouble. I worked as an electrician at a
large plant. The old large switches on the electrical panels made in the
US used green for on and red for off. We started getting in some equipment
from other countries. They decided to use an opposit standard. Red ment
the circuit was on and dangerous. Green ment the power was off and it was
safe to open the door. From then on they might as well painted everything
pink. Confusing standards are more dangerous than no standard.

Hmm, Asian products? Usually, the European stuff kept the same
standards. I guess the memo did not get out that Red is danger/
stop(ped)/malfunction and Green is go/running/proceed/okay.

"Steve F." wrote in message
...
Hmm, Asian products? Usually, the European stuff kept the same
standards. I guess the memo did not get out that Red is danger/
stop(ped)/malfunction and Green is go/running/proceed/okay.


I don't recall which country the stuff came from. We had equipment from all
over the world. Seems that each one wanted to have a seperate standard.
Even had some odd ball voltage like 380 volts 3 phase instead of the 480
volts like in the US.




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On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:42:01 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Those cheap neon testers will light from any source if there is power,
and the box ground is common for testing. I seriously can not imagine
one of them starting a fire, no matter how they are grounded.
I have not seen them in the stores for years, but I have not looked for
one either. Today they are probably LEDs. Those neons did tend to burn
out after several years. I guess the gas inside them just vaporizes or
something.


I don't think the bulb would ever burn out or seldom go bad. Most neon
bulbs are rated for many thousands of on hours. As most tests only take a
few seconds, it would take many years for the bulb to go bad.

At work there were many of us that had them and most of the ones that went
bad were because of physical damage. They were used on voltages up to 480
volts..


I'm not talking about the testers going bad, but neons that are left on
for long periods of time. I had a neon night light, which after some
years, just quit working. It would flicker on at times, but not stay
lit. Oddly enough, it seemed to flicker only when I turned the room
light on. That makes little sense to me, but thats what it did.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:36:25 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

I think it does matter. Virtually any appliance, etc that I can
think of, when the device is running, active, etc, any associated
light is on, not the other way around. You get accustomed to that
association and having it reversed is likely to result in confusion
and the light being left on.

The way we think can get us into trouble. I worked as an electrician at a
large plant. The old large switches on the electrical panels made in the
US used green for on and red for off. We started getting in some equipment
from other countries. They decided to use an opposit standard. Red ment
the circuit was on and dangerous. Green ment the power was off and it was
safe to open the door. From then on they might as well painted everything
pink. Confusing standards are more dangerous than no standard.

An attic light is safety critical? Good grief.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:56:24 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

buy a neon lamp and locate it near the switch

radio shack still sells them

How do you connect it? Remember, there is no neutral.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 05:02:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:19:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:47:57 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

wrote:





wrote in message

.. .

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:28:27 -0600, wrote:



About 40 years ago, I rented a house that had a switch on the first

floor of a house, which controlled an attic light. That attic light was

always being left on. I decided to ask the landlord if I could install

a lighted switch, so it could be noticed that the attic light was on.

The attic access was a pull down folding stairs, so the attic light

could not be seen otherwise.



Anyhow, my landlord agreed as long as I furnished the switch, but

insisted that he install it. He installed the lighted switch, only to

discover that the switch box did not contain a neutral wire. And the

tiny neon bulb inside the switch needed a neutral connection. Well, he

connected that screw to the box. The box was grounded via the BX cable

going to it. The little neon bulb worked fine.



A neutral isn't required for lighted switches. An incandescent light

may be.





You may want to take another look at the origional reason for the lighted

switch. Some lighted switches only have the light on when the main light is

not on. In his case he wants the switch light on when the attic light is

on.



He wants to know when the attic light is on. Does it really matter

the polarity of the logic?



I think it does matter. Virtually any appliance, etc that I can
think of, when the device is running, active, etc, any associated
light is on, not the other way around. You get accustomed to that
association and having it reversed is likely to result in confusion
and the light being left on.

Some of us are capable of learning. Just get used to the light being
on. Something different triggers the "something is wrong" alert.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:35:48 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:42:01 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

Those cheap neon testers will light from any source if there is power,
and the box ground is common for testing. I seriously can not imagine
one of them starting a fire, no matter how they are grounded.
I have not seen them in the stores for years, but I have not looked for
one either. Today they are probably LEDs. Those neons did tend to burn
out after several years. I guess the gas inside them just vaporizes or
something.


I don't think the bulb would ever burn out or seldom go bad. Most neon
bulbs are rated for many thousands of on hours. As most tests only take a
few seconds, it would take many years for the bulb to go bad.

At work there were many of us that had them and most of the ones that went
bad were because of physical damage. They were used on voltages up to 480
volts..


I'm not talking about the testers going bad, but neons that are left on
for long periods of time. I had a neon night light, which after some
years, just quit working. It would flicker on at times, but not stay
lit. Oddly enough, it seemed to flicker only when I turned the room
light on. That makes little sense to me, but thats what it did.

Older neon lamps used a radioactive starter (a spot of Radium paint,
for example) to the gas to get them to reliably start. When that
decays, the light becomes harder to start. It may become light
sensitive, too (only lights when there is light in the room).