I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.

On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 13:45:30 -0600, wrote:

I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.
As an electrician here in Ontario Canada until about 20 years ago, my
Dad said he saw as many problems with residential Sqare D panels as he
did with FPE. That is to say, very few problems. There were some main
breaker issues - but those were nothing to do with the panel design or
the branch circuit breakers and were confined almost entirely to homes
with baseboard electric heat and 100 amp panels.

I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.


*Eaton makes replacement interiors for many old style and new style circuit
breaker panels. Check out this link and look at the PDF documentation:
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsS...dex.htm#tabs-2
You would need to order them from an Eaton/Cutler Hammer electrical
distributor and they are more money than a regular panel. However the labor
savings is a big plus because you can use the same box without having to
remove the existing wiring or cut open a wall. All you need is the physical
dimensions to determine if one will work for you.

As far as the FPE is concerned, they're all bad breakers even the mains, and
I speak from personal experience. I've seen them not trip from a dead
short, I've seen them not shut off after I flipped the handle to the off
position, I've flipped them on with one phase remaining off and the other
on... My brother jokingly says that you can weld with wires connected to an
FPE breaker without having to worry if it trips.

I had a stab lock breaker not trip on a dead short, the wire finally melted and exploded, it took out a couple swiches too.

anyone with a stab lock panel might as well replace it, otherwise it will be a huge issue at home sale time, and probably cost more in the future.

state farm told me they will not insure any new homeowner with a stab lock breaker panel since there were too many home fires caused by them......

On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 18:32:58 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I had a stab lock breaker not trip on a dead short, the wire finally melted and exploded, it took out a couple swiches too.

anyone with a stab lock panel might as well replace it, otherwise it will be a huge issue at home sale time, and probably cost more in the future.

state farm told me they will not insure any new homeowner with a stab lock breaker panel since there were too many home fires caused by them......
It appears the American product and the Canadian product were
different.. At least the later Canadian breakers were pretty good.

On 1/7/2014 2:45 PM, wrote:
I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.

I realize it's an expense, and a bit of work to replace.
But look at the possible outcome. It's a bit like having
pennies behind the fuses. No protection at all. I'd want
that panel replaced, as soon as possible.

I did replace a panel for a friend, on new years day, a
couple years ago. I brought a portable propane lantern
for light and heat, and that helped a lot.

The risk is something going wrong in a wall (mouse chews
wire for example) and the whole house goes down in ashes.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 1/7/2014 1:45 PM, wrote:
I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.

AIUI, there was a series that FPE falsified some UL data on that had
some problems; other series have not been shown to have been a problem.

I did a bunch of digging at one time but can no longer recall which was
which and how to identify them w/o re-researching it, unfortunately.

My experience has been that there are a half-dozen FPE panels here on
the farm since the 50s and that have never experienced a failure. It
may be these all predate the problem era.

There are third-party replacements available but at least the ones
available locally are 3X the cost of competitive brands; probably
because the volume is so low. That difference would pay the replacement
cost of a panel if discount labor if have it done professionally if were
to replace the whole thing.

Haller, of course, jumps in with his usual "sky is falling insurance co
told him to be followed up w/ neighbor who" stories...

--

On 1/7/2014 1:45 PM, wrote:
I have a FPE Stablock breaker panel in my house. I was not aware of the
problem with them until I read some older posts about them on this
newsgroup. I then used a search engine and read up on them. But there
seems to be inconsistencies in the information I found. For one thing,
it appears that the breakers that fail are usually only the double ones.
Yet, other sites say they are all bad. Then I noted that the photos I
saw, all showed older panels with black breakers. My panel is a newer
style, and has orange breakers. (orange tipped levers).

I was considering replacing this panel, but before the cost and work,
I'm wondering if it's necessary. Are ALL Stablock panels bad, or only
the older ones? And if it's only the double breakers that are at fault,
I'd rather just add a sub-panel for the only double breaker that I use,
which is a 30A for the elec water heater. The other double is for
(Range), which I do nto use. This excludes the MAIN, which I'm not to
concerned about, because this 100A panel, is a sub-panel being fed from
another panel with 100A cartridge fuses.


In 1979 FPE was sold to Reliance Electric. Reliance discovered that FPE
had submitted fraudulent information to UL and notified UL. UL pulled
the listing on most of the FPE products. Reliance sued FPE (or whoever
had owned FPE) and got $42 million. The fraud ended in 1981. This 'bad'
period was probably around 1965-1981.

The CPSC opened a very limited investigation of FPE in 1980, with
disturbing results.
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
has a lot of information, much of it derived from the CPSC
investigation. Two pole breakers may not trip (can jam and never trip)
if the current on both poles is not the same (like ground fault).
(Service disconnect size breakers were not tested.) Another problem -
single pole breakers may never trip at 135% of rating. Also bus failures
which cannot be seen as they are developing without panel disassembly.
The CPSC investigation was closed 1983. The reasons it was closed likely
were not related to the potential problem.
http://www.cahillinspection.com/imag.../Aronstein.pdf

There was a class action lawsuit against FPE around 2000 in New Jersey.
There was a judgement against FPE in 2002: "FPE violated the Consumer
Fraud Act because FPE knowingly and purposefully distributed circuit
breakers which were not tested to meet UL Standards as indicated on
their label and there is an ascertainable loss for which treble damages
are recoverable...." [Note: there may have actually been limited
recovery rights to homeowners, and only in New Jersey. The case may
still be under appeal as of January 2007].

http://www.codecheck.com/cc/ccimages/PDFs/FPE_2012.pdf
includes a bunch more problems with FPE panels, including problems not
covered above.

http://www.connecticut-electric.com/
at one time made replacement breakers for FPE panels. I didn't check
their website now. (That does not fix bus problems.)

FPE (Federal Pioneer?) is currently sold in Canada. There has been a
redesign, and these breakers are presumably OK. (But there was a fairly
extensive recall about 1998 - see the Schneider-Federal Pioneer website.)

If I had an FPE panel I would replace it. The 'guts' replacement in
John's post may be a good method.