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sewer collapse question
The HOA just sent out an email that there has been a sewer collapse and
that the city was working on it. The city told the HOA that some might have problems with sewer gas getting into the house during the fixing because the workers would create a vaccum that might pull the water from the pipes in the house and that we should run water if we smelt gas. How far away from the construction should I be before I don't really need to worry about it? -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
sewer collapse question
Until you can't smell it?
..... |
sewer collapse question
Kurt,
Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Dave M. |
sewer collapse question
David L. Martel wrote:
Kurt, Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. |
sewer collapse question
Bob F wrote:
David L. Martel wrote: Kurt, Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . -- Snag --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
sewer collapse question
In article ,
"David L. Martel" wrote: Kurt, Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Dave M. My problem is that we are traveling while they are working on it. Trying to figure out if I need to have the neighbor wander through a couple of times a day or not. -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
sewer collapse question
Snag wrote:
Bob F wrote: David L. Martel wrote: Kurt, Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . Hmmm, According to law of physics, I'd say. Any thing can happen to any thing any time. |
sewer collapse question
On 12/17/2013 10:11 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . Hmmm, According to law of physics, I'd say. Any thing can happen to any thing any time. According to the laws of physics, perhaps you're correct. Highly unusual for it to occur though if the caveat "PROPERLY VENTED" is accurate. I wonder though if the city was actually cautioning him about the storm sewers. Floor drain in the basement is generally (again GENERALLY) not supposed to be tied in the the sanitary sewer line which is vent, however it if is -as may well be the case here (hence the city's concern) - I don't think that that sewer drain is tied into the vent stack in the house. Perhaps it's supposed to be but I've seen too many where it's not. If I was the original poster, I would check to make sure there's water in the p-traps and if I wasn't absolutely sure that the basement drain was NOT connected to the affected line, I'd install a pressure plug until the crisis passed so that whether they suck the line clear or try to blow it clear, the crap would take the path of least resistance and not fill up my basement. |
sewer collapse question
Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/17/2013 10:11 PM, Tony Hwang wrote: Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . Hmmm, According to law of physics, I'd say. Any thing can happen to any thing any time. According to the laws of physics, perhaps you're correct. Highly unusual for it to occur though if the caveat "PROPERLY VENTED" is accurate. I wonder though if the city was actually cautioning him about the storm sewers. Floor drain in the basement is generally (again GENERALLY) not supposed to be tied in the the sanitary sewer line which is vent, however it if is -as may well be the case here (hence the city's concern) - I don't think that that sewer drain is tied into the vent stack in the house. Perhaps it's supposed to be but I've seen too many where it's not. If I was the original poster, I would check to make sure there's water in the p-traps and if I wasn't absolutely sure that the basement drain was NOT connected to the affected line, I'd install a pressure plug until the crisis passed so that whether they suck the line clear or try to blow it clear, the crap would take the path of least resistance and not fill up my basement. Hi, Wonder if area had heavy snow fall plugging up the vents?(remote chance) Sewage back up is covered by insurance. I have check valve installed on my basement drain. Here in June we had biggest flood in 45 years. My daughter's basement was total loss due to sewage back up. Tallied damage was almost !00K which insurance co. paid reluctantly. Feel sorry about folks who suffered over flowing surface water damage. Daughter had a sump pump but when power went out... Now she has new pump with battery and gen set back up installed for the next time in case... |
sewer collapse question
In article ,
Unquestionably Confused wrote: I wonder though if the city was actually cautioning him about the storm sewers. Floor drain in the basement is generally (again GENERALLY) not supposed to be tied in the the sanitary sewer line which is vent, however it if is -as may well be the case here (hence the city's concern) - I don't think that that sewer drain is tied into the vent stack in the house. Perhaps it's supposed to be but I've seen too many where it's not. The email from the city specifcially mentioned waste water sewer and warned of sewer gasses getting into house. Wouldn't both of those together indicate not a storm sewer?? If I was the original poster, I would check to make sure there's water in the p-traps and if I wasn't absolutely sure that the basement drain was NOT connected to the affected line, I'd install a pressure plug until the crisis passed so that whether they suck the line clear or try to blow it clear, the crap would take the path of least resistance and not fill up my basement. How would I do that? -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
sewer collapse question
Kurt,
My problem is that we are traveling while they are working on it. Trying to figure out if I need to have the neighbor wander through a couple of times a day or not. Why? You can fill the P traps and air out any smell when you return from your trip. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Dave M. |
sewer collapse question
On 12/17/2013 9:17 PM, Snag wrote:
Bob F wrote: David L. Martel wrote: Kurt, Just do what they tell you. If you smell sewer gas, run the water in all of your sinks and tubs to refill the P traps. Takes about 10 seconds per fixture. Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . I've seen a situation where high winds blowing across a roof will create a vacuum in the vent stacks and suck all the P-traps dry. ^_^ TDD |
sewer collapse question
On 12/17/2013 11:34 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 12/17/2013 10:11 PM, Tony Hwang wrote: Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . Hmmm, According to law of physics, I'd say. Any thing can happen to any thing any time. According to the laws of physics, perhaps you're correct. Highly unusual for it to occur though if the caveat "PROPERLY VENTED" is accurate. I wonder though if the city was actually cautioning him about the storm sewers. Floor drain in the basement is generally (again GENERALLY) not supposed to be tied in the the sanitary sewer line which is vent, however it if is -as may well be the case here (hence the city's concern) - I don't think that that sewer drain is tied into the vent stack in the house. Perhaps it's supposed to be but I've seen too many where it's not. If I was the original poster, I would check to make sure there's water in the p-traps and if I wasn't absolutely sure that the basement drain was NOT connected to the affected line, I'd install a pressure plug until the crisis passed so that whether they suck the line clear or try to blow it clear, the crap would take the path of least resistance and not fill up my basement. Hi, Wonder if area had heavy snow fall plugging up the vents?(remote chance) Sewage back up is covered by insurance. I have check valve installed on my basement drain. Here in June we had biggest flood in 45 years. My daughter's basement was total loss due to sewage back up. Tallied damage was almost !00K which insurance co. paid reluctantly. Feel sorry about folks who suffered over flowing surface water damage. Daughter had a sump pump but when power went out... Now she has new pump with battery and gen set back up installed for the next time in case... There is an emergency sump pump system that's run by city water. I looked in to getting one for an old(90) customer of mine before I became too ill to do physical labor. ^_^ http://www.basepump.com/Products/Basepump.html TDD |
sewer collapse question
In article ,
"David L. Martel" wrote: Kurt, My problem is that we are traveling while they are working on it. Trying to figure out if I need to have the neighbor wander through a couple of times a day or not. Why? You can fill the P traps and air out any smell when you return from your trip. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Dave M. That is part of what I was wondering about. Although ehow.com suggested that there could be a buildup of methane causing the possibility of an explosion. That and the kids are flying back while Kay and I are driving and I don't want to have to Child#2 deal with it when I am still 600-700 miles away (or more to point I don't want to have to deal with C#2.... ) -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
sewer collapse question
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:47:32 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/17/2013 10:11 PM, Tony Hwang wrote: Don't forget floor drains in the basement. They may or may not be connected to the sewer. Actually , if the drains are properly vented there's no way a vacuum in the system can suck the p-traps dry . Hmmm, According to law of physics, I'd say. Any thing can happen to any thing any time. According to the laws of physics, perhaps you're correct. Highly unusual for it to occur though if the caveat "PROPERLY VENTED" is accurate. The only way it could happen would be for there to be a vacuum large enough so that the air from the various vents would not be sufficient to reduce it enough and there was still enough vacuum to pull the water from the traps. Given that we're not talking about just one house, but presumably many houses, it would sure seem to me that either a lot of houses would have to have no venting or it would have to be one hell of a vacuum being created on the sewer main. I don't see why they would be creating any substantial vacuum to begin with. |
sewer collapse question
On 12/18/2013 5:57 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
If I was the original poster, I would check to make sure there's water in the p-traps and if I wasn't absolutely sure that the basement drain was NOT connected to the affected line, I'd install a pressure plug until the crisis passed so that whether they suck the line clear or try to blow it clear, the crap would take the path of least resistance and not fill up my basement. How would I do that? See if you can remove the grate or drain screen on your floor drain. Most are removable. Any Big Box or decent hardware store will have a suitable plug in the plumbing section. It's nothing more than a 3" high or so rubber "cork" slightly smaller in diameter than the sewer pipe. The rubber has a metal "washer" on the bottom and top and a threaded rod in the center. You insert the plug in the sewer/drain and snug it down with a wrench which expands the plug (the outside diameter of which has little rubber ridges to grip tightly) and effectively closes off the drain. Nothing passes either way. |
sewer collapse question
In article ,
Unquestionably Confused wrote: Any Big Box or decent hardware store will have a suitable plug in the plumbing section. It's nothing more than a 3" high or so rubber "cork" slightly smaller in diameter than the sewer pipe. The rubber has a metal "washer" on the bottom and top and a threaded rod in the center. You insert the plug in the sewer/drain and snug it down with a wrench which expands the plug (the outside diameter of which has little rubber ridges to grip tightly) and effectively closes off the drain. Nothing passes either way. We have a finished basement and I honestly can't remember seeing anything that looks like that. Is it buried under the carpet? -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
sewer collapse question
to be better safe than sorry have neighbor walk thru a couple times a day, and to prevent a explosion leave a window on the top floor open just a little, so even if gas somehow accumulated it would have somewhere to go:) methane is lighter than air so it will naturally go to the highes spot in the building. Leave all interior doors open for free air flow.
and let neighbor doing walk thru know why window is open a little and all interior doors are open |
sewer collapse question
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sewer collapse question
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sewer collapse question
Kurt Ullman wrote:
The HOA just sent out an email that there has been a sewer collapse and that the city was working on it. The city told the HOA that some might have problems with sewer gas getting into the house during the fixing because the workers would create a vaccum that might pull the water from the pipes in the house and that we should run water if we smelt gas. How far away from the construction should I be before I don't really need to worry about it? I just recently received a notice from my town about work they were going to do on the sewer lines on my street during one day only. The notice said they were re-lining the main sewer lines using some kind of chemical/plastic compound that is applied to the inside of the sewer lines and quickly dries. They said they would have to shut off the sewer lines briefly during the day. And, they said that the chemical smell is sort of like nail polish remover. They said that if the homeowners smelled the chemical smell inside their home to be sure to add water to the traps by running the water at each fixture briefly. I could smell the chemical outside while they were doing the work, but not i my house. What they are about to do in your development sounds like no big deal to me. Just do what they said about re-filling the traps in the unlikely event that you smell sewer gas in your home. Since you are in a condo complex, I doubt that there are any basement floor drains in your property. I thought that they were prohibited by more recent building codes, but I am not sure. Since you said you will be away, and you want to be sure there is no problem while you are away, there is an easy solution. For each sink and tub, just leave the cold water on with a tiny drip -- something very slow, like a drop or two at a time -- while you are away. In the highly unlikely event that the traps do get low or emptied by the sewer work, the very slow drip will automatically re-fill each trap. That seems like unnecessary overkill to me, but if you are truly concerned, that will solve your concern. personally, I would not worry about it. Or, if you wanted, you could ask a neighbor or two to keep an eye out (actually a nose out) for the smell of any sewer gases in their homes while the work is going on. Then, if they do smell something in their home(s), you could have them contact you by phone or maybe have them go in a re-fill the traps in your home. But, if they don't smell anything in their home, I see no reason to have them going into your home at all, let alone several times a days. |
sewer collapse question
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , "David L. Martel" wrote: Kurt, My problem is that we are traveling while they are working on it. Trying to figure out if I need to have the neighbor wander through a couple of times a day or not. Why? You can fill the P traps and air out any smell when you return from your trip. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Dave M. That is part of what I was wondering about. Although ehow.com suggested that there could be a buildup of methane causing the possibility of an explosion. ....snip... IMO there is no worse source for information than ehow. Do yourself a favor. Pick a couple of subjects that you know a lot about. Look up those subjects on ehow. Decide for yourself if the information on ehow is worth the disk space it's stored on. I can't tell you how many times I've read stuff on ehow that was at best so general as to be not worth reading or at worst completely wrong, such as the R&R instructions for a car part where ehow had the model/year incorrect. Their instructions weren't even close. |
sewer collapse question
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:43:01 AM UTC-5, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 8:25 AM, wrote: The only way it could happen would be for there to be a vacuum large enough so that the air from the various vents would not be sufficient to reduce it enough and there was still enough vacuum to pull the water from the traps. Oh, to play the nit picker... The vacuum does not pull the water. The water is pushed. :-) Idle speculation: if the vacuum got the water started over the top of the P-trap, a siphon would be created that would not stop until all the water had been removed. |
sewer collapse question
On 12/18/2013 10:32 PM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:43:01 AM UTC-5, Irreverent Maximus wrote: On 12/18/2013 8:25 AM, wrote: The only way it could happen would be for there to be a vacuum large enough so that the air from the various vents would not be sufficient to reduce it enough and there was still enough vacuum to pull the water from the traps. Oh, to play the nit picker... The vacuum does not pull the water. The water is pushed. :-) Idle speculation: if the vacuum got the water started over the top of the P-trap, a siphon would be created that would not stop until all the water had been removed. Or, until the trap is empty enough to allow air from above the trap to pass through. This would break the siphon, and any further water evacuation would be via venturi like mechanics. A strong enough air flow could possibly lift ripplets of water and take them away. Plus, the air flow could increase evaporation. |
sewer collapse question
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:40:27 PM UTC-5, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
Idle speculation: if the vacuum got the water started over the top of the P-trap, a siphon would be created that would not stop until all the water had been removed. Or, until the trap is empty enough to allow air from above the trap to pass through. This would break the siphon, and any further water evacuation would be via venturi like mechanics. A strong enough air flow could possibly lift ripplets of water and take them away. Plus, the air flow could increase evaporation. Also I suspect water in a trap is not an impenetrable barrier to gases. I shouldn't say what my evidence is for that. Oh, all right, I will. When I was in college I once saw a gadget the kids called a bong, I dunno if it has an engineering name. I'm not sure the usage is entirely legal. It had a trap filled with smelly water, but differential pressure was sufficient to pull heated air through water and out the top. I've also run into a case where the exhaust fan on a bathroom seemed to be able to pull sewer smell up through traps even though they were kept full. The door fit too tightly and/or the fan was too strong. |
sewer collapse question
On 12/19/2013 7:20 AM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:40:27 PM UTC-5, Irreverent Maximus wrote: Idle speculation: if the vacuum got the water started over the top of the P-trap, a siphon would be created that would not stop until all the water had been removed. [snip] Oh, all right, I will. When I was in college I once saw a gadget the kids called a bong, I dunno if it has an engineering name. I'm not sure the usage is entirely legal. It had a trap filled with smelly water, but differential pressure was sufficient to pull heated air through water and out the top. However it did not have an operable vent stack between the trap and the orifice to which you applied the necessary vacuum. If you recall otherwise it must have been some really good heated airg |
sewer collapse question
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 8:36:59 AM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/19/2013 7:20 AM, TimR wrote: On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:40:27 PM UTC-5, Irreverent Maximus wrote: Idle speculation: if the vacuum got the water started over the top of the P-trap, a siphon would be created that would not stop until all the water had been removed. [snip] Oh, all right, I will. When I was in college I once saw a gadget the kids called a bong, I dunno if it has an engineering name. I'm not sure the usage is entirely legal. It had a trap filled with smelly water, but differential pressure was sufficient to pull heated air through water and out the top. However it did not have an operable vent stack between the trap and the orifice to which you applied the necessary vacuum. If you recall otherwise it must have been some really good heated airg Sigh, and completely different settup. It's kind of the reverse of a P-trap. It's designed to let AIR pass through water. If it was designed like a P-trap with a blocked vent, you'd be sucking the water out until you finally got to the air. |
sewer collapse question
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:34:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Sigh, and completely different settup. It's kind of the reverse of a P-trap. It's certainly a U-trap though, and even in a plumbing P trap all the water is in the U. Hmmm.......? |
sewer collapse question
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:48:47 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:34:33 AM UTC-5, wrote: Sigh, and completely different settup. It's kind of the reverse of a P-trap. It's certainly a U-trap though, and even in a plumbing P trap all the water is in the U. Hmmm.......? Why don't you think of the design of the two, how they operate and get back to us. For starters, a bong is not a U trap. It's not designed to block air/gas flow. It's designed to make air with burning smoke bubble up through water when pulled via a vacuum. So to say that because a bong passes smoke as it's designed to do somehow means that a P trap isn't effective at sealing out gases makes no sense. |
sewer collapse question
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:06:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:48:47 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote: On Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:34:33 AM UTC-5, wrote: Sigh, and completely different settup. It's kind of the reverse of a P-trap. It's certainly a U-trap though, and even in a plumbing P trap all the water is in the U. Hmmm.......? Why don't you think of the design of the two, how they operate and get back to us. For starters, a bong is not a U trap. It's not designed to block air/gas flow. It's designed to make air with burning smoke bubble up through water when pulled via a vacuum. So to say that because a bong passes smoke as it's designed to do somehow means that a P trap isn't effective at sealing out gases makes no sense. The pressure at the bottom of an inch of water is ,036 psi How much vacuum do you think it would take to pull a gas up through an inch of water (or less) in a trap? |
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