We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

Perce

On 11/14/2013 3:19 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

Perce

I'm no expert but excess grit is a sign:

http://voices.yahoo.com/6-ways-know-...f-5894540.html

I remember grit and curled shingles when I replaced mine.

On 11/14/13 03:31 pm, Frank wrote:

We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

I'm no expert but excess grit is a sign:

http://voices.yahoo.com/6-ways-know-...f-5894540.html

I remember grit and curled shingles when I replaced mine.

I don't see any curling -- unlike the severe curling on the shed roof
before I replaced the shingles about three years ago.

The Web page to which you referred talks about "more grit than normal"
(or words to that effect) -- but what is normal? There is much more grit
in the gutters on the SW-facing side than on the NE-facing side. But
even the SW-facing side still looks its normal color.

How long do shingles typically last? Or is that a "How long is a piece
of string?" question?

Perce

On 11/14/2013 4:31 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 11/14/13 03:31 pm, Frank wrote:

We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

I'm no expert but excess grit is a sign:

http://voices.yahoo.com/6-ways-know-...f-5894540.html

I remember grit and curled shingles when I replaced mine.

I don't see any curling -- unlike the severe curling on the shed roof
before I replaced the shingles about three years ago.

The Web page to which you referred talks about "more grit than normal"
(or words to that effect) -- but what is normal? There is much more grit
in the gutters on the SW-facing side than on the NE-facing side. But
even the SW-facing side still looks its normal color.

How long do shingles typically last? Or is that a "How long is a piece
of string?" question?

Perce

I keep looking at my roof because it is at or near the end of the 25
year warranty period. Still looks good and while there is always a
little grit in the gutters when I clean them it does not appear
excessive. My first roof in the house when new only lasted 15 years.
Builder had, what I believe is called winging, by saving on nails. I
think they were 20 year warranted but builder had voided it with
improper installation.

I guess if your shingles are not curling or roof does not leak you
should be OK for the time being.

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:04:02 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 11/14/2013 4:31 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 11/14/13 03:31 pm, Frank wrote:



We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious

problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount

of grit in the gutters.



We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we

tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few

spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing

Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick

tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be

expected to last.



Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.



I'm no expert but excess grit is a sign:



http://voices.yahoo.com/6-ways-know-...f-5894540.html



I remember grit and curled shingles when I replaced mine.



I don't see any curling -- unlike the severe curling on the shed roof

before I replaced the shingles about three years ago.



The Web page to which you referred talks about "more grit than normal"

(or words to that effect) -- but what is normal? There is much more grit

in the gutters on the SW-facing side than on the NE-facing side. But

even the SW-facing side still looks its normal color.



How long do shingles typically last? Or is that a "How long is a piece

of string?" question?



Perce



I keep looking at my roof because it is at or near the end of the 25

year warranty period. Still looks good and while there is always a

little grit in the gutters when I clean them it does not appear

excessive. My first roof in the house when new only lasted 15 years.

Builder had, what I believe is called winging, by saving on nails. I

think they were 20 year warranted but builder had voided it with

improper installation.



I guess if your shingles are not curling or roof does not leak you

should be OK for the time being.


I don't think the amount of grit is a reliable indicator.
Signs of curling, cracking, being brittle, is what I'd
look for. Especially the cracking. When it's at EOL,
you'll start to see cracks in the shingles, pieces breaking
off, even though there are no leaks.

I had a numbskull that I used to work with that built
houses on the side. He looked at my roof from the ground
one time and told me I needed a new roof. 15 years later,
the roof still wasn't leaking, but needed to be replaced
because of damage from Sandy. At that point it was finally
starting to show signs of cracking.

On 11/14/2013 12:19 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

Perce
During my college years, I worked for over a year at Malarkey Roofing in
Portland Oregon. Picked thousands of three-tab shingles from the shingle
machine.

The roofing shingles are made from thick wood based felt that is first
saturated with really hot asphalt. Then coated on both sides with
thicker, hot asphalt. The back side is coated with mica dust to keep it
from being sticky, and the front surface is coated with a pattern of
colored stone granules. The material then goes through press rollers to
firmly imbed the granules in the hot asphalt. After cooling, the sheet
goes through a die cutting machine, which produces the shingles. That is
where I worked.

The grit or granules are on your shingles to reflect as much heat and
light from the sun as possible. Light colored granules will protect the
shingle longer than dark colors. All asphalt evaporates and oxidizes
over time. This includes your highway paving, and your roofing.
Eventually all the asphalt coating will evaporate and you will be left
with the saturated felt, which will then evaporate and you will be left
with yellow/brown wood felt.

The roofing shingles will not leak until the asphalt is completely gone.
As the asphalt in the felt evaporates, the felt will shrink and cause
curling shingles.

The sunny side of your roof will loose it's granules first. Our previous
house had to have the ridge shingles replaced before the buyer your
complete the deal. They were of a different manufacturer from the
three-tab shingles. All the granules were off and the felt was showing.
the rest of the roof was fine and good for many more years. Both were
about 20 years old.

the loss of granules is a normal thing. Hail, heavy rain,
freezing/thawing, all contribute. Same thing happens if you walk on the
roof. Just watch for the felt to begin showing, or the color of your
roof changing to something you don't like. that will tell you to redo
the roof.

Paul

Just before it leaks if you think economics, when it looks bad if ur
into aesthetics , around here the best time is after a hailstorm if you
have good insurance.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:29:35 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



I keep looking at my roof because it is at or near the end of the 25

year warranty period. Still looks good and while there is always a

Be sure to look at the southern side, or the side closest to the
equator. With a pitched room, it gets more sun. I can't see that
side of my roof from the ground, but I can see the northern side,
which looked fine even when the southern side looked like a little
girl's curls.


I don't think the amount of grit is a reliable indicator.
Signs of curling, cracking, being brittle, is what I'd
look for. Especially the cracking. When it's at EOL,
you'll start to see cracks in the shingles, pieces breaking
off, even though there are no leaks.

I had a numbskull that I used to work with that built
houses on the side. He looked at my roof from the ground
one time and told me I needed a new roof.

I have a friend who was married to a physical therapist. I sat down,
and lifted and folded my legs -- they fold better than most other
people's, so that one calf and foot is entirely on top of the other,
and the top knee is resting on other foot -- and she told me if I sat
like that, I'd need physical therapy. Now it's more than 20 years
later and it's still the most comfortable position I have.

I don't know aobut your friend but I give her a little bit of the
benefit of the doubt that if she sees people all day long that need
physical therapy, she forgets what regular people are like. But for
other reasons she was a real ding-a-ling, crackpot, and obnoxious too.

15 years later,
the roof still wasn't leaking, but needed to be replaced
because of damage from Sandy. At that point it was finally
starting to show signs of cracking.

Generally, as long as your shingles are laying flat, your roof shingles are still in good condition, like this:

http://www.neponsetvalleyconstructio...le-roofing.jpg

The granules on the top surface of the shingles are intended to protect the asphalt the shingles are made of from the UV light from the Sun. As that asphalt deteriorates, not only do the shingles start to lose granules, they start to curl into distorted shapes. Generally, the shingles will curl upward, but they can also twist and curl in various other ways. Anything except laying flat means that the shingles are nearing the ends of their lives.

Here's a couple of roofs where you see that the shingles are just starting to curl. Both of these roofs still have a good 5 to 10years of life in them, if not more.

http://www.bloomington-normalnewroof...-shingles.jpeg

http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachmen...g-100_0642.jpg

If the shingles on the above two roofs aren't replaced, then the curling will continue to get worse. When you see shingles that look like this:

http://adamsonroofing.com/blog/wp-up...g_shingles.jpg

Then the roof is at the end of it's life.

And, if the shingles still aren't replaced, you can end up with shingles that look like this:

http://www.countrysideroofinginc.com...1/02/roof3.jpg

And, at that point, it's possible that some of the roof sheathing has rotted under those curling shingles and the homeowner would incur additional costs to have that rotted wood replaced.

If there are trees in your yard and the tree branches rub on your roof, it's a good idea to prune those branches. Otherwise the branches can brush the granules off the shingles and shorten the lifespan of those shingles.

They used to rate shingles according to expected lifespan, and so shingles would be rated as 15, 20, 25 or 30 year shingles. The problem is that there was no standard shingle thickness, and so one company's shingles would be rated at 25 years as opposed to 20 years only because it was negligibly thicker than another company's 20 year shingles. Now, they rate shingle life by expressing it as pounds of shingles per hundred square feet of roof. The greater the weight of shingles you put on each 100 square feet of your roof, the longer that roofing job will last because the shingles will be made of thicker asphalt. In this way, people can reasonably compare the quality of the shingles their getting against the price they're paying for them.

Generally, it's only contractors that intend to sell a house shortly after it's built that will put cheap shingles on the roof. That's because the labour cost to put on thicker shingles isn't appreciably greater than putting on thin shingles. So, as long as the labour cost is much the same in all cases, it makes economic sense to buy the longest life shingles available. However, if someone is planning to sell a house, and the house definitely needs a new roof, they may be tempted to install the cheapest shingles available hoping the buyer won't know the difference. When a person is installing a new roof on a house they intend to keep, it makes economic sense to install the best quality shingles so that you only have to pay that labour cost once ever 30 years instead of once every 15 years.

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:06:38 PM UTC-5, nestork wrote:
Generally, as long as your shingles are laying flat, your roof shingles

are still in good condition.



The granules on the top surface of the shingles are intended to protect

the asphalt the shingles are made of from the UV light from the Sun. As

that asphalt deteriorates, not only do the shingles start to lose

granules, they start to curl into distorted shapes.



Here's a couple of roofs where you see that the shingles are just

starting to curl. Both of these roofs still have a good 5 years of life

in them, if not more.



http://tinyurl.com/lxx5kca



http://tinyurl.com/mfsujvj



If the shingles on the above two roofs aren't replaced, then the curling

will continue to get worse. When you see shingles that look like this:



http://tinyurl.com/k2wt23c



Then the roof is at the end of it's life.



I would only point out that a roof in that condition is
extremely vulneable to storm damage. Get a wind storm in the
right direction with enough force and it will tear off those
shingles, then the ones beyond it, etc. Now you have water
pouring in, exensive damage and an emergency. Instead of
replacing the roof when you want, at the right price, etc,
you may be doing it when you have few choices.
How lucky do you feel?

I would never let a roof get even close to the state of that
pic before replacing it.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:32:41 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:



The sunny side of your roof will loose it's granules first. Our previous
house had to have the ridge shingles replaced before the buyer your
complete the deal. They were of a different manufacturer from the
three-tab shingles. All the granules were off and the felt was showing.
the rest of the roof was fine and good for many more years. Both were
about 20 years old.


Same here. I had to replace my ridge shingles after 11 years.
But the rest of the shingles were still fine. The ridge shingles were
organic CertainTeed. There was a class action law suit about the
CertainTeed shingles, but I was too late on that.
The ridge shingles were curling, cracked and bare of rock in many
places.
Nice write-up on shingles. Thanks.

On 11/14/2013 4:31 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:


How long do shingles typically last? Or is that a "How long is a piece
of string?" question?



Most 3 tab shingles are rated for 20 years, Architectural are usually 30
years, but there are some rated for 40 years. Toss in varying weather
conditions and plus or minus 5 years.

On 11/14/2013 6:29 PM, wrote:


I had a numbskull that I used to work with that built
houses on the side. He looked at my roof from the ground
one time and told me I needed a new roof. 15 years later,
the roof still wasn't leaking, but needed to be replaced
because of damage from Sandy. At that point it was finally
starting to show signs of cracking.


Sounds to me that he was correct. He just didn't have the timing right!

On 11/14/2013 5:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:32:41 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:



The sunny side of your roof will loose it's granules first. Our previous
house had to have the ridge shingles replaced before the buyer your
complete the deal. They were of a different manufacturer from the
three-tab shingles. All the granules were off and the felt was showing.
the rest of the roof was fine and good for many more years. Both were
about 20 years old.


Same here. I had to replace my ridge shingles after 11 years.
But the rest of the shingles were still fine. The ridge shingles were
organic CertainTeed. There was a class action law suit about the
CertainTeed shingles, but I was too late on that.
The ridge shingles were curling, cracked and bare of rock in many
places.
Nice write-up on shingles. Thanks.

Thanks. when I was at Malarkey, we made 3-tab shingles for many
different companies. Certainteed was one of them. Same old stuff,
different wrapper! At that time, the U/L label id number was always
Malarkey's.

Paul

On 11/14/2013 3:19 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

Perce

New shingles shed granules, so are we to assume the granules in the
gutters are a new development and not old accumulation? I'd first email
Certainteed with the number code and ask them. Can't contact the
previous owner or check for a building permit for roof install? Then
I'd go for how it looks....not curled, cracked or bare of granules?
Then I'd assume I might have another 10-20 years on the remaining
expected life of the shingles. Mine are new so I don't need to worry )

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:42:02 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/14/2013 6:29 PM, wrote:


I had a numbskull that I used to work with that built
houses on the side. He looked at my roof from the ground
one time and told me I needed a new roof. 15 years later,
the roof still wasn't leaking, but needed to be replaced
because of damage from Sandy. At that point it was finally
starting to show signs of cracking.


Sounds to me that he was correct. He just didn't have the timing right!

In that case, I think you need a new roof

I'm just not sure when.

On 11/16/2013 10:02 PM, micky wrote:


Sounds to me that he was correct. He just didn't have the timing right!

In that case, I think you need a new roof

I'm just not sure when.


Siding too, in another 20 - 25 years.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:19:10 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious
problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount
of grit in the gutters.

We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we
tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few
spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing
Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick
tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be
expected to last.

Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.

Perce

In my experience the only real reason to replace them is that the tabs
break off, usually during a wind storm. If you get there "in time"
before the next storm hits and use roofing tar to glue the broken tab
back down/back in place, or use new shingles, or suitable sizes pieces
of new shingles, and slide them under the existing ones and glue it
all down, you can make the roof last till almost ever last bit of
"grit" is gone from the surface. The key is repairing all the problem
areas as soon as they appear. Also, if the tabs are no longer glued
down, even if still good, you can save them by gluing them down. Most
recently they have started selling caulking gun style clear roofing
cement. Stick a tub in your caulking gun and it's easy to shoot glue
under any loose tabs and get them glued back down. And the clear
looks a lot better then black smudges for the repairs.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:13:37 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:

On 11/14/2013 5:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:32:41 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:



The sunny side of your roof will loose it's granules first. Our previous
house had to have the ridge shingles replaced before the buyer your
complete the deal. They were of a different manufacturer from the
three-tab shingles. All the granules were off and the felt was showing.
the rest of the roof was fine and good for many more years. Both were
about 20 years old.


Same here. I had to replace my ridge shingles after 11 years.
But the rest of the shingles were still fine. The ridge shingles were
organic CertainTeed. There was a class action law suit about the
CertainTeed shingles, but I was too late on that.
The ridge shingles were curling, cracked and bare of rock in many
places.
Nice write-up on shingles. Thanks.

Thanks. when I was at Malarkey, we made 3-tab shingles for many
different companies. Certainteed was one of them. Same old stuff,
different wrapper! At that time, the U/L label id number was always
Malarkey's.

Paul


I just had a roof redone with Malarkey architectural shingles. The
roofer said they were $8 a square cheaper then the "name brand" that I
can't remember right now. He thought they were probably the same
shingles but with slightly different colored chips. From what you are
saying Malarkey is the maker of many brands and from what you know
they are all made the same on the same line?

On Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:53:22 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:19:10 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

wrote:



We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious

problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount

of grit in the gutters.



We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we

tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few

spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing

Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick

tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be

expected to last.



Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.



Perce



In my experience the only real reason to replace them is that the tabs

break off, usually during a wind storm. If you get there "in time"

before the next storm hits and use roofing tar to glue the broken tab

back down/back in place, or use new shingles, or suitable sizes pieces

of new shingles, and slide them under the existing ones and glue it

all down, you can make the roof last till almost ever last bit of

"grit" is gone from the surface. The key is repairing all the problem

areas as soon as they appear.


How about if they appear during an intense storm with
50 mph wind gusts and heavy rain? With a roof at it's
end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential
water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen
a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost
all the surface granuales where there were not other
serious problems, like cracks in many places where
water is starting to get in.

In my experience, when you try to push something,
it often just leads to more problems.






Also, if the tabs are no longer glued

down, even if still good, you can save them by gluing them down. Most

recently they have started selling caulking gun style clear roofing

cement. Stick a tub in your caulking gun and it's easy to shoot glue

under any loose tabs and get them glued back down. And the clear

looks a lot better then black smudges for the repairs.

On 11/16/2013 9:57 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:13:37 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:

On 11/14/2013 5:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:32:41 -0800, Paul Drahn
wrote:



The sunny side of your roof will loose it's granules first. Our previous
house had to have the ridge shingles replaced before the buyer your
complete the deal. They were of a different manufacturer from the
three-tab shingles. All the granules were off and the felt was showing.
the rest of the roof was fine and good for many more years. Both were
about 20 years old.


Same here. I had to replace my ridge shingles after 11 years.
But the rest of the shingles were still fine. The ridge shingles were
organic CertainTeed. There was a class action law suit about the
CertainTeed shingles, but I was too late on that.
The ridge shingles were curling, cracked and bare of rock in many
places.
Nice write-up on shingles. Thanks.

Thanks. when I was at Malarkey, we made 3-tab shingles for many
different companies. Certainteed was one of them. Same old stuff,
different wrapper! At that time, the U/L label id number was always
Malarkey's.

Paul


I just had a roof redone with Malarkey architectural shingles. The
roofer said they were $8 a square cheaper then the "name brand" that I
can't remember right now. He thought they were probably the same
shingles but with slightly different colored chips. From what you are
saying Malarkey is the maker of many brands and from what you know
they are all made the same on the same line?
I was remembering working there in 1961/63 time frame. Don't know
anything about the industry, know, but most consumer things are made by
other than the company on the label. Always has been and always will be.

Malarkey made several types of shingles than the three-tab ones. Just
changed the die roller in the shingle machine. One I remember was "Dutch
lap". They were trapezoid in shape. No tabs. I think the whole shingle
was a single color, not the "shadow" effect of the three-tab.

We used all different colors of granules. Came in hopper cars on the
railroad.

May have been other shapes, as well.

Paul

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 05:28:05 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:53:22 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:19:10 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

wrote:



We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious

problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount

of grit in the gutters.



We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we

tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few

spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing

Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick

tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be

expected to last.



Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.



Perce



In my experience the only real reason to replace them is that the tabs

break off, usually during a wind storm. If you get there "in time"

before the next storm hits and use roofing tar to glue the broken tab

back down/back in place, or use new shingles, or suitable sizes pieces

of new shingles, and slide them under the existing ones and glue it

all down, you can make the roof last till almost ever last bit of

"grit" is gone from the surface. The key is repairing all the problem

areas as soon as they appear.


How about if they appear during an intense storm with
50 mph wind gusts and heavy rain?

If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most
of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a
quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals
and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end
of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the
half that wasn't damaged.


With a roof at it's
end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential
water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen
a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost
all the surface granuales where there were not other
serious problems, like cracks in many places where
water is starting to get in.


All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm
going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most
of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on
the shingles on the sunny side. I've been fixing broken tabs as
outlined on this roof for about 10 years. Had I done nothing when
tabs started flying 10 years ago I would have had to reroof about 8
years ago. I probably could have gotten another 2 years out of it but
buyers would not like it so I reroofed it.




In my experience, when you try to push something,
it often just leads to more problems.






Also, if the tabs are no longer glued

down, even if still good, you can save them by gluing them down. Most

recently they have started selling caulking gun style clear roofing

cement. Stick a tub in your caulking gun and it's easy to shoot glue

under any loose tabs and get them glued back down. And the clear

looks a lot better then black smudges for the repairs.

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:19:10 PM UTC-5, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious

problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount

of grit in the gutters.



We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we

tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few

spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing

Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick

tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be

expected to last.



Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.



Perce

I live in hurricane alley. I am not a pro but I think you can pressure clean the roof to get as much loose grit off then paint it with elastermeric every couple of years or 15 years if you use the good stuff. That will hold then you can stack shingles up to three layers before the building inspectors throw a fit.
Violently overthrow the US government.

On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:12:34 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:19:10 PM UTC-5, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious



problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount



of grit in the gutters.







We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we



tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few



spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing



Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick



tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be



expected to last.







Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.







Perce



I live in hurricane alley. I am not a pro but I think you can pressure clean the roof to get as much loose grit off then paint it with elastermeric every couple of years or 15 years if you use the good stuff. That will hold then you can stack shingles up to three layers before the building inspectors throw a fit.

Violently overthrow the US government.

PS white reflects heat and deters curling

On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:13:45 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:12:34 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:

On Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:19:10 PM UTC-5, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:



We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious







problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount







of grit in the gutters.















We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we







tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few







spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing







Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick







tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be







expected to last.















Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea.















Perce







I live in hurricane alley. I am not a pro but I think you can pressure clean the roof to get as much loose grit off then paint it with elastermeric every couple of years or 15 years if you use the good stuff. That will hold then you can stack shingles up to three layers before the building inspectors throw a fit.



Violently overthrow the US government.



PS white reflects heat and deters curling

Pss Violently overthrow the US government.

On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:14:20 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:13:45 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:12:34 AM UTC-5, YouraPeon wrote:



On Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:19:10 PM UTC-5, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:







We have been in our present home almost ten years and see no obvious















problems with the roof, except that there seems to be an enormous amount















of grit in the gutters.































We have no idea when the current shingles were installed, so how do we















tell when it's time to replace them? The previous owners left a few















spare shingles but, apart from the marking "CertainTeed Roofing















Collection" and a series of letter1234 markings along the anti-stick















tape, these seems to be no way of knowing how long they could be















expected to last.































Obviously, waiting until the roof starts leaking is not a good idea..































Perce















I live in hurricane alley. I am not a pro but I think you can pressure clean the roof to get as much loose grit off then paint it with elastermeric every couple of years or 15 years if you use the good stuff. That will hold then you can stack shingles up to three layers before the building inspectors throw a fit.







Violently overthrow the US government.







PS white reflects heat and deters curling



Pss Violently overthrow the US government.

PSSS Roofers suck and should be beaten to death with baseball bats along with their elected tax sucking maggots.
Violently overthrow the US government.

On Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58:56 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most

of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a

quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals

and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end

of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the

half that wasn't damaged.



The key thing there is you need to have replacement cost
coverage. Otherwise they pay for the depreciated value of
what was damaged, meaning if the roof was near it's end of
life, you wouldn't get very much.

Also, how they handle it varies from one insurance company
to another and the particular adjuster also factors in.
I don't know how you can be sure how they will handle it,
until it actually happens. I went through this with Allstate
on a Sandy claim. I had replacement coverage, a roof near
it's end of life. They treated each roof plane seperately.
On each plane, only if there was extensive damage or if the
shingles were so brittle that the plane could not be repaired,
would they pay to replace that entire plane. The fact that
it would look like hell, not match, etc, wasn't a factor they
would consider. I wound up getting about half the cost of a
new roof.

On the other hand, as you say, I have heard of insurance
companies that have written off entire roofs if the total
area that needs to be replaced reaches a large enough percentage.





With a roof at it's

end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential

water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen

a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost

all the surface granuales where there were not other

serious problems, like cracks in many places where

water is starting to get in.





All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm

going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most

of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on

the shingles on the sunny side.

How do you define water-tight? Long before water shows
up on a ceiling, it can be making it's way into areas
you can't see, ie the decking, soffits, fascia, etc.





I've been fixing broken tabs as

outlined on this roof for about 10 years. Had I done nothing when

tabs started flying 10 years ago I would have had to reroof about 8

years ago. I probably could have gotten another 2 years out of it but

buyers would not like it so I reroofed it.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:11:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58:56 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most

of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a

quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals

and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end

of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the

half that wasn't damaged.



The key thing there is you need to have replacement cost
coverage. Otherwise they pay for the depreciated value of
what was damaged, meaning if the roof was near it's end of
life, you wouldn't get very much.

Also, how they handle it varies from one insurance company
to another and the particular adjuster also factors in.
I don't know how you can be sure how they will handle it,
until it actually happens. I went through this with Allstate
on a Sandy claim. I had replacement coverage, a roof near
it's end of life. They treated each roof plane seperately.
On each plane, only if there was extensive damage or if the
shingles were so brittle that the plane could not be repaired,
would they pay to replace that entire plane. The fact that
it would look like hell, not match, etc, wasn't a factor they
would consider. I wound up getting about half the cost of a
new roof.

On the other hand, as you say, I have heard of insurance
companies that have written off entire roofs if the total
area that needs to be replaced reaches a large enough percentage.





With a roof at it's

end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential

water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen

a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost

all the surface granuales where there were not other

serious problems, like cracks in many places where

water is starting to get in.





All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm

going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most

of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on

the shingles on the sunny side.

How do you define water-tight? Long before water shows
up on a ceiling, it can be making it's way into areas
you can't see, ie the decking, soffits, fascia, etc.




If it doesn't stain the ceiling in a hard rain it's water tight.
There's pretty much nothing between the underside of the roof and the
ceiling but 4 inches of blown in insulation.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:08:54 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:11:43 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:



On Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58:56 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:



If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most



of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a



quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals



and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end



of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the



half that wasn't damaged.







The key thing there is you need to have replacement cost

coverage. Otherwise they pay for the depreciated value of

what was damaged, meaning if the roof was near it's end of

life, you wouldn't get very much.



Also, how they handle it varies from one insurance company

to another and the particular adjuster also factors in.

I don't know how you can be sure how they will handle it,

until it actually happens. I went through this with Allstate

on a Sandy claim. I had replacement coverage, a roof near

it's end of life. They treated each roof plane seperately.

On each plane, only if there was extensive damage or if the

shingles were so brittle that the plane could not be repaired,

would they pay to replace that entire plane. The fact that

it would look like hell, not match, etc, wasn't a factor they

would consider. I wound up getting about half the cost of a

new roof.



On the other hand, as you say, I have heard of insurance

companies that have written off entire roofs if the total

area that needs to be replaced reaches a large enough percentage.











With a roof at it's



end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential



water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen



a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost



all the surface granuales where there were not other



serious problems, like cracks in many places where



water is starting to get in.











All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm



going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most



of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on



the shingles on the sunny side.



How do you define water-tight? Long before water shows

up on a ceiling, it can be making it's way into areas

you can't see, ie the decking, soffits, fascia, etc.









If it doesn't stain the ceiling in a hard rain it's water tight.

There's pretty much nothing between the underside of the roof and the

ceiling but 4 inches of blown in insulation.

Unfortunately, that's not true. Water can start to destroy
roof sheathing, fascia boards, even joists, before it shows
up as a ceiling leak. For example, when I did my roof, I
had some rotted fascia boards. Upon inspection, there were some
tiny cracks in the old shingles just above it that let water drip
onto it. If the leaks are small, then water starts to get into
the wood and keep it wet. It starts to rot. And it can remain
a small leak for a long time almost anywhere on the roof,
without it making it through the
insulation, through the drywall, etc to show up on your ceiling.
You'd never see it, until you go to replace the roof.
During that time, which could be years, the wood is kept wet
and it starts to rot. The longer you push a roof that is at
the end of it's life, the more probability of that happening.

The other risk is that in a bad storm with high winds,
an old roof could have enough sudden shingle loss that you
do have water damage. How far anyone wants to push their
luck is entirely up to them.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:11:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58:56 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most

of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a

quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals

and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end

of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the

half that wasn't damaged.



The key thing there is you need to have replacement cost
coverage. Otherwise they pay for the depreciated value of
what was damaged, meaning if the roof was near it's end of
life, you wouldn't get very much.

Also, how they handle it varies from one insurance company
to another and the particular adjuster also factors in.
I don't know how you can be sure how they will handle it,
until it actually happens. I went through this with Allstate
on a Sandy claim. I had replacement coverage, a roof near
it's end of life. They treated each roof plane seperately.
On each plane, only if there was extensive damage or if the
shingles were so brittle that the plane could not be repaired,
would they pay to replace that entire plane. The fact that
it would look like hell, not match, etc, wasn't a factor they
would consider. I wound up getting about half the cost of a
new roof.

On the other hand, as you say, I have heard of insurance
companies that have written off entire roofs if the total
area that needs to be replaced reaches a large enough percentage.





With a roof at it's

end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential

water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen

a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost

all the surface granuales where there were not other

serious problems, like cracks in many places where

water is starting to get in.





All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm

going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most

of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on

the shingles on the sunny side.

How do you define water-tight? Long before water shows
up on a ceiling, it can be making it's way into areas
you can't see, ie the decking, soffits, fascia, etc.




If it doesn't stain the ceiling in a hard rain it's water tight.
There's pretty much nothing between the underside of the roof and the
ceiling but 4 inches of blown in insulation.

Really? Come and look at the discoloration on the underside of my sheathing
due to nail pops that lifted the tabs or broke through them. As far as I
can tell, nothing below the sheathing or joists ever got wet, or if it did,
it dried out before I felt any wetness on the insulation. It certainly
never stained the ceiling. After I saw the discoloration, I went up in the
attic during a storm and the underside of sheathing was wet in spots with
no drips on to the insulation below.

In addition, surface tension can cause the water to run along a joist or
sheathing and end up someplace hidden, like inside a wall.

The roof has since been replaced.

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:11:36 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:11:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58:56 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

If you have good insurance you've hit the jackpot as you may get most

of the cost of a new roof paid for by the insurance. Wind took off a

quarter of the roof, including most of the wood, on one of my rentals

and messed up another quarter of the roof. The shingles were at end

of life. Insurance paid for the entire reroofing job, even on the

half that wasn't damaged.



The key thing there is you need to have replacement cost
coverage. Otherwise they pay for the depreciated value of
what was damaged, meaning if the roof was near it's end of
life, you wouldn't get very much.

Also, how they handle it varies from one insurance company
to another and the particular adjuster also factors in.
I don't know how you can be sure how they will handle it,
until it actually happens. I went through this with Allstate
on a Sandy claim. I had replacement coverage, a roof near
it's end of life. They treated each roof plane seperately.
On each plane, only if there was extensive damage or if the
shingles were so brittle that the plane could not be repaired,
would they pay to replace that entire plane. The fact that
it would look like hell, not match, etc, wasn't a factor they
would consider. I wound up getting about half the cost of a
new roof.

On the other hand, as you say, I have heard of insurance
companies that have written off entire roofs if the total
area that needs to be replaced reaches a large enough percentage.





With a roof at it's

end of life, that can happen. Then you have potential

water damage to deal with too. Also, I've never seen

a roof with the shingles anywhere close to having lost

all the surface granuales where there were not other

serious problems, like cracks in many places where

water is starting to get in.





All I can tell you is my experience. I just reroofed because I'm

going to sell the house but the roof was water tight yet had lost most

of the granules, i.e. probably only about 20% of them were still on

the shingles on the sunny side.

How do you define water-tight? Long before water shows
up on a ceiling, it can be making it's way into areas
you can't see, ie the decking, soffits, fascia, etc.




If it doesn't stain the ceiling in a hard rain it's water tight.
There's pretty much nothing between the underside of the roof and the
ceiling but 4 inches of blown in insulation.

Really? Come and look at the discoloration on the underside of my sheathing
due to nail pops that lifted the tabs or broke through them. As far as I
can tell, nothing below the sheathing or joists ever got wet, or if it did,
it dried out before I felt any wetness on the insulation. It certainly
never stained the ceiling. After I saw the discoloration, I went up in the
attic during a storm and the underside of sheathing was wet in spots with
no drips on to the insulation below.

In addition, surface tension can cause the water to run along a joist or
sheathing and end up someplace hidden, like inside a wall.

The roof has since been replaced.

When they replaced the roof all the old roof and underlayment was
removed and there was no water damage except right at the very edge
where it had dripped over the downcurled shingle edge an onto the
fascia. That was easy enough to fix and was the result not so much of
the roof being old per se but because when they reroofed it years ago
they didn't use the metal edging they always use now so this kind of
thing doesn't happen.

I'm certainly not saying your concerns aren't valid, only that it's
not universal with an old roof. If you take pains to keep an eye on
it and fix it immediately you can often get a lot more life out of a
roof "that needs replacing" according to "experts".