Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And,
don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes
different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.
Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit to
'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day before
use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

On Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:30:21 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And,

don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes

different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.



I don't know what you mean by that. Rollers don't leave brush strokes.
They can leave roller ridges, but with a good paint and decent technique
it isn't hard to avoid. If you're painting areas where a roller can
be used, I don't know of any pros that would use a brush, except to cut-in
first. Because they leave a more consistent, mark free surface over
areas where they can be use is one reason why they are used.







Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high

quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang

busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10

seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint

can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!



Actions to date:

I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.

and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little

paint.

I added Glass Cleaner,

I've never heard of adding that to paint.





cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Almost works.

Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.



What does Dunn Edwards say to add. All the latex paints I've
used say they can be thinned with water if necessary. It's kind
of interesting you'd put glass cleaner in it, but for water
you want to use distilled?

If the paint is too thick, then it will not have time to flow
correctly for the brush or roller marks to disappear. And if you're
having these kinds of problems with that brand right out of the
can with new paint, I'd go to another brand. I've used Benj Moore
recently and right out of the can, it's thick but it definitely
flows fine and doesn't leave marks.

On the other hand, I used some oil based Zinnser stain killer
and it did have the problem you're talking about. Being oil
based I didn't have anything to thin it with and managed to get
through what I needed to do. But I know what you're talking about.
It was drying so fast that the brush marks barely had time to
settle out.






Background:

Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use

sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A

Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit to

'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.



Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,

and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!



Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day before

use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.





Need a solution:

What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go

flat BEFORE it dries.

Should I add Jet-Dri?

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 07:30:21 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

I added Floetrol, from Home Depot

Hopefully, you picked the correct one from the shelf? ISTC there is
Floetrol for water based latex and for oil based paints.

Yes he did. Floetrol is for latex paints, Penetrol is for oil based paints. An easy way to remember which one is for what is to remember the phrase "penetrating oil". Penetrol is used for thinning OIL based paints.

Robert:

Use a Dixie cup (or other paper or styrofoam cup) to fill a clean empty soup can about half full with the paint you're having trouble with. Thin the paint in that can by adding 10 percent of the paint volume in water (Distilled water is best.) and stirring it into your paint with your brush. I believe that thinning the paint will make a big difference.

You see, when you have liquid paint in a gallon can, it will self level perfectly by itself. But, once you spread that paint into a film that's only a fraction of a millimeter thick, it needs to be much less viscous to flow and self level by itself. So, you'll find that you might need to thin your paint with 20 to 30 percent water, and put on two coats instead of only one.

So, thin the paint in your soup can with up to 30 percent water (try 10, 20 and 30 percent, but stop when you're getting much better results) and you should find that you can spread the paint on a horizontal surface, and it will still be thin enough to self level, thereby eliminating the brush strokes.

That's really the trick to getting a good paint job on horizontal surfaces with a brush.

When you're painting vertical surfaces, the problem is that the more you thin the paint, the slower it dries, and the greater the likelihood that it will "sag" on vertical surfaces. Floetrol is a paint conditioner made for latex paints that has higher viscosity than water, so thinning with Floetrol won't reduce the paint's viscosity nearly as much as thinning with water, and that helps to prevent the wet paint film for "sagging" on vertical surfaces as it dries.

So, when painting horizontal surfaces, thin small amounts of your paint in an empty tin can until you get a good feel for how much to thin it. When painting vertical surfaces, do the same, but use Floetrol instead of water.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.w172kvvg2cx0wh@ajm
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent
brush strokes. And, don't tell me roll it on, because
that just makes the 'brush' strokes different, less
controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy!
Using 'high quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm
fighting brush strokes like gang busters! Perhaps, it is
because the paint is a bit tacky within 10 seconds, and
'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!
Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed
the color a bit. and cost a lot. Seems like coating the
wall with Floetrol and a little paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad,
getting closer. Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters
circa 2010 - use sparingly, keep for perfect matching,
call it Paint A Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards
paint same color, but they admit to 'slight' change in
color nomenclature, call it Paint B.
Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in
its 5 gal bucket, and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That
stuff comes out FLAT!
Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir
each day before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows
the paint to go flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

Try water.
_____________

You do realize that it takes considerable time for paint to actually dry
beyond the finger dry stage, right? And that the paint film becomes
increasingly thinner as it dries over a week's time or more? How thickly
are you applying the paint? You really shouldn't be laying it on thick
enough to leave brush marks.

Concerning rollers, they really do leave a better surface. Again, if it is
applied properly. Best way I have found is to load the roller and them make
an "M" or "W" about 30" square on the wall; one then rolls that - back and
forth - in all directions...updown, leftright, NESW, NWSE. Feather
the edges and feather the next "M" into it.
___________________

Despite the above, I *do* empathize with you. Many water base paints are
more like soft set Jello than paint and are difficult to feather. I'm not
sure why they make them that way but strongly suspect it has something to do
with women wanting to paint things
_____________________

Personally, I have given up trying to get a good latex paint job on woodwork
(walls, NP); instead, I make a stippled one by re-rolling when the paint is
pretty tacky. Works for me, YMMV.

Time was, I wouldn't even consider using latex on woodwork but oil base
paint is getting too hard to come by.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:28:30 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Time was, I wouldn't even consider using latex on woodwork but oil base
paint is getting too hard to come by.

My home fascia trim in acrylic latex (Mojave Desert). After 3 years it
still looks good. Done right, it will last and look good.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:01:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:28:30 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Time was, I wouldn't even consider using latex on woodwork but oil base
paint is getting too hard to come by.

My home fascia trim in acrylic latex (Mojave Desert). After 3 years it
still looks good. Done right, it will last and look good.
Good 100% acrylic latex will last every bit as well as the typical
oil or Alkyd based paint. And on exterior it is LESS likely to blister
and peel..

Heck, even CARS are being painted with "water born" paint now - and
today's car paints stand up MUCH better than the paints of the '80s
and before.

Robert,

Why is the paint drying so quickly? Buy a quart or pint and see if this
new batch also dries quickly. I'm thinking defective paint.

Dave M..

RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

My vote would be to try adding water to the paint to thin it out (water
water, not distilled water). I think that will help keep the paint from
drying too quickly and will give it a chance to flow and even out better and
reduce brush marks. You can try it with a small amount of paint in a
separate container rather than mixing the water into the entire container of
paint.

I think that the paint companies like to put additives into the paint to
make it "non-drip" so it doesn't drip off paint brushes or rollers. You may
be able to lessen that "feature" by thinning the paint with water.

On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
Drywall?

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Glass cleaner?!??

Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.

What does the label say?


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit
to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day
before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.

This is interesting:
http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:

On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
Drywall?

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Glass cleaner?!??

Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.

What does the label say?


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit
to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day
before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.

This is interesting:
http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19



Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water base
was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and basically
thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some of our Easy
Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it never left a
streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued the product !!]
Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd structure shape
where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed. Had to wait hours
and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove the run. Also,
continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad' stroke without
doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I sprayed EasyOff
Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned the paint back
into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke, rework,
essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I found I could
even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing. So if I found
something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done FLAT!! And that's
when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry sand, paint and end up
with a surface that looked like commercial grade, formica flat. Within a
year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the look came out beautiful.

It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks, the
stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry area
left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse than a
brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that was
nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french doors.

Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards
W6240 WERSAFLAT base.

For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the
same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry
paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.

Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to
decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web
info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They
don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's
Fahrenheit.

Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and
being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run a
bit of AIR and probably even lower.

Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like low-fat
milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on the floor
EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING! Dried more
slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch the surfaces.
But the results were just 'less' corduroy.

I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't
locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies. Know
they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush strokes
does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off the brush,
just 'miracle' stuff.


I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out too
fast.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:32:41 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:

On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
Drywall?

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Glass cleaner?!??

Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.

What does the label say?


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit
to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day
before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.

This is interesting:
http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19



Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water base
was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and basically
thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some of our Easy
Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it never left a
streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued the product !!]
Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd structure shape
where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed. Had to wait hours
and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove the run. Also,
continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad' stroke without
doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I sprayed EasyOff
Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned the paint back
into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke, rework,
essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I found I could
even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing. So if I found
something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done FLAT!! And that's
when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry sand, paint and end up
with a surface that looked like commercial grade, formica flat. Within a
year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the look came out beautiful.

It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks, the
stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry area
left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse than a
brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that was
nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french doors.

Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards
W6240 WERSAFLAT base.

For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the
same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry
paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.

Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to
decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web
info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They
don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's
Fahrenheit.

Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and
being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run a
bit of AIR and probably even lower.

Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like low-fat
milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on the floor
EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING! Dried more
slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch the surfaces.
But the results were just 'less' corduroy.

I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't
locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies. Know
they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush strokes
does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off the brush,
just 'miracle' stuff.


I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out too
fast.
I think you need a better brush. - a good polyester and nylon brush
with flagged or split ends.

If you are using a natural bristle brush you will NEVER get a decent
job with latex.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:36:54 -0700, wrote:

...snip...
I think you need a better brush. - a good polyester and nylon brush
with flagged or split ends.

If you are using a natural bristle brush you will NEVER get a decent
job with latex.

I purchased every type. from $0.50 at Walmart, you know the type with a
wad of hair on the end of something resembling wood. Oddly, even this one
is not too bad with the right technique.

In general, the 'least' offensive is a polyester extremely finely
feathered brush that has the ends so fluffy it looks like a cotton swab on
the end. around $8.00 !! for a 2 inch wide.

Last night's effort showed that a 'new' technique helps, and I mean helps,
that is lay the paint on ONCE and never touch it again. That produced some
almost flat areas. But, is fraught with peril of missing sections, uneven
paint layer, and giant glops at an overlap. So is difficult to maintain.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:58:16 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

is not too bad with the right technique.

In general, the 'least' offensive is a polyester extremely finely
feathered brush that has the ends so fluffy it looks like a cotton swab on
the end. around $8.00 !! for a 2 inch wide.


I was paying 3 times that for a good 2 1/2" brush 30 years ago.
Cheap doesn't work with brushes.

On 8/23/2013 7:32 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:

On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
Drywall?

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Glass cleaner?!??

Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.

What does the label say?


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit
to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day
before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.

This is interesting:
http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19




Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water
base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and
basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some
of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it
never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued
the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd
structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed.
Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove
the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad'
stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I
sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned
the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke,
rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I
found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing.
So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done
FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry
sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade,
formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the
look came out beautiful.

It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks,
the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry
area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse
than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that
was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french
doors.

Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards
W6240 WERSAFLAT base.

For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the
same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry
paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.

Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to
decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web
info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They
don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's
Fahrenheit.

Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and
being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run
a bit of AIR and probably even lower.

Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like
low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on
the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING!
Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch
the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.

way too thin. the label will state how much you can thin it and also the
expected drying time. there's also an 800 number you can call to ask.

i also only use dunn-edwards, and also live in your area. it is pretty
thick when first poured, probably to help the complaint about drips off
the roller as someone else previously stated. i get good coverage and it
takes a couple of minutes to dry enough to the touch to not leave
fingerprints. i don't get brush strokes when i edge, and rolling doesn't
leave any marks either. i use flat on the ceilings only, and eggshell on
all the walls. i've even partially painted walls with paint that was
stored in the garage for a couple of years, and not been able to see the
difference in texture or color.

you should take your can, a brush, and a piece of wallboard to the d-e
store and show them. they should be able to help you; i see lots of
paint pros in my store when i'm there and the staff is very
knowledgeable and helpful.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:58:41 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:

...snip...

way too thin. the label will state how much you can thin it and also the
expected drying time. there's also an 800 number you can call to ask.

i also only use dunn-edwards, and also live in your area. it is pretty
thick when first poured, probably to help the complaint about drips off
the roller as someone else previously stated. i get good coverage and it
takes a couple of minutes to dry enough to the touch to not leave
fingerprints. i don't get brush strokes when i edge, and rolling doesn't
leave any marks either. i use flat on the ceilings only, and eggshell on
all the walls. i've even partially painted walls with paint that was
stored in the garage for a couple of years, and not been able to see the
difference in texture or color.

you should take your can, a brush, and a piece of wallboard to the d-e
store and show them. they should be able to help you; i see lots of
paint pros in my store when i'm there and the staff is very
knowledgeable and helpful.


I will try the 800 number, the employees at DE didn't have a clue.

Uh,...take a CLOSE look at your paint surface. Bet you have more 'ridges'
there than you believe.

When I'm done with a wall it 'looks' flat, beautiful, BUT! There is one
type of light that hits it that highlights the strokes. Plus, I'm
personally cursed with some visual 'dis'-ability defect that causes me to
see them in plain light. Especially show up at edges and corners where
strokes overlap. Rolling leaves a pattern that my eye seems to catch. That
is, rolling the paint on, not me rolling.

At the DE store EVERY sample color they have on the wall, painted onto
individual pieces of boards, looks like worse corduroy than I'm fighting.
So must be a case of people don't notice.


SOLVED, well a bit. Paint normally with thick, then sand flat with 220.
Two times if have to. Then, surface with 'watery' paint. Makes for almost
NO brush strokes whatsoever.

On 8/24/2013 10:35 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:58:41 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:

...snip...

way too thin. the label will state how much you can thin it and also
the expected drying time. there's also an 800 number you can call to ask.

i also only use dunn-edwards, and also live in your area. it is pretty
thick when first poured, probably to help the complaint about drips
off the roller as someone else previously stated. i get good coverage
and it takes a couple of minutes to dry enough to the touch to not
leave fingerprints. i don't get brush strokes when i edge, and rolling
doesn't leave any marks either. i use flat on the ceilings only, and
eggshell on all the walls. i've even partially painted walls with
paint that was stored in the garage for a couple of years, and not
been able to see the difference in texture or color.

you should take your can, a brush, and a piece of wallboard to the d-e
store and show them. they should be able to help you; i see lots of
paint pros in my store when i'm there and the staff is very
knowledgeable and helpful.


I will try the 800 number, the employees at DE didn't have a clue.

Uh,...take a CLOSE look at your paint surface. Bet you have more
'ridges' there than you believe.

When I'm done with a wall it 'looks' flat, beautiful, BUT! There is one
type of light that hits it that highlights the strokes. Plus, I'm
personally cursed with some visual 'dis'-ability defect that causes me
to see them in plain light. Especially show up at edges and corners
where strokes overlap. Rolling leaves a pattern that my eye seems to
catch. That is, rolling the paint on, not me rolling.

At the DE store EVERY sample color they have on the wall, painted onto
individual pieces of boards, looks like worse corduroy than I'm
fighting. So must be a case of people don't notice.


SOLVED, well a bit. Paint normally with thick, then sand flat with 220.
Two times if have to. Then, surface with 'watery' paint. Makes for
almost NO brush strokes whatsoever.







When I varnish furniture, I thin the first couple of coats to get it
level and into the grain....nice and smooth. I've never been able to
roll paint on walls without getting the shadow effect where the roller
edges go. I think I have one more room to paint; lifetime limit )
Kitchen/dining area with beadboard wainscoating.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.w2br4rx02cx0wh@ajm

SOLVED, well a bit. Paint normally with thick, then sand
flat with 220. Two times if have to. Then, surface with
'watery' paint. Makes for almost NO brush strokes
whatsoever.

This for a wall? A *WALL*?

Good grief.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 8/23/2013 10:32 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:

On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.
And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'
strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!

Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
Drywall?

Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
paint.
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.

Glass cleaner?!??

Almost works.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.

What does the label say?


Background:
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit
to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.

Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?

Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!

Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day
before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.


Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?

What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.

This is interesting:
http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19




Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water
base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and
basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some
of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it
never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued
the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd
structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed.
Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove
the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad'
stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I
sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned
the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke,
rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I
found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing.
So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done
FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry
sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade,
formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the
look came out beautiful.

It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks,
the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry
area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse
than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that
was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french
doors.

Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards
W6240 WERSAFLAT base.

For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the
same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry
paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.

Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to
decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web
info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They
don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's
Fahrenheit.

Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and
being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run
a bit of AIR and probably even lower.

That may be PART of your problem. I wonder where/how you stored what was
left of the original paint...garage, very high temp?

Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like
low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on
the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING!
Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch
the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.

That is plain crazy....no modern paint is supposed to run like low-fat
milk. Most are like thick cream. It is beginning to seem that you
haven't the faintest idea what the label says or why it says what it does.

If you are painting plain, flat interior drywall, I think it would be
best to sand the wall with fine sandpaper and start over with fresh
paint from a good brand paint store. The nonsense of drying in 10 sec.
or being so runny is just ridiculous.

I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't
locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies.
Know they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush
strokes does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off
the brush, just 'miracle' stuff.

Paint ALWAYS needs stirring....perhaps the reason you got no brush marks
from that paint is that you used the thinner, upper part of the liquid
and left the heavy solids in the bottom

I would not bother painting unless I used quality (yes, expensive)
paint, roller and/or brush. Good brushes are expensive, but with proper
care will last a lifetime. That said, it takes time and practice to
gain skill at painting...most of the paint companies have all kinds of
tips for choosing product, clear instructions for use, and
skill-building advice. A good paint store can also advise what
additives are useful or beneficial...a business with experience knows
what the sell and how to use it best. Good luck!


I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out
too fast.

On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:30:25 PM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:
On 8/23/2013 10:32 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:



On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.

And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'

strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.





Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...



Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high

quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang

busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10

seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint

can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!



Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that

fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface

according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?

Drywall?



Actions to date:

I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.

and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little

paint.

I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.



Glass cleaner?!??



Almost works.

Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.



What does the label say?





Background:

Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use

sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A

Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit

to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.



Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?



Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,

and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!



Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day

before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.





Need a solution:

What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go

flat BEFORE it dries.

Should I add Jet-Dri?



What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to

your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,

contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us

know what you find out.



This is interesting:

http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19









Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water

base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and

basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some

of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it

never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued

the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd

structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed.

Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove

the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad'

stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I

sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned

the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke,

rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I

found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing.

So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done

FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry

sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade,

formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the

look came out beautiful.



It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks,

the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry

area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse

than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that

was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french

doors.



Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards

W6240 WERSAFLAT base.



For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the

same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry

paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.



Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to

decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web

info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They

don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's

Fahrenheit.



Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and

being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run

a bit of AIR and probably even lower.



That may be PART of your problem. I wonder where/how you stored what was

left of the original paint...garage, very high temp?



Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than

10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like

low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on

the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING!

Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch

the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.



That is plain crazy....no modern paint is supposed to run like low-fat

milk. Most are like thick cream. It is beginning to seem that you

haven't the faintest idea what the label says or why it says what it does.



I agree about the thickness. I haven't done any painting in quite
a while and last year painted a couple of rooms with Benjamin Moore.
It was thicker than I remember other paints being from 15 years ago,
but it was by far the best performing paint I've ever used. No
brush strokes where cutting in, no back spatter from the roller,
beautiful finish, right out of the can.

At the same time, I just had the fast drying experience that the OP
is talking about. That was with Zinnser oil based stain killer.
It was drying so fast, I was having a hard time getting the brush
strokes out. First I thought it was because it was going on
areas that had been repaired, covered with mud. But it performed
pretty much the same on the areas that were previously painted.

If I has something to thin it with, I would have done
so, but I wanted to get through the job, so I toughed it out.
Still, as it dried it did pretty much level itself out, but next time if
I need that type of product, I would choose a different brand.
But again that was with a stain killer, so they may be thicker
and have different properties than a regular latex paint.

If the paint is drying as fast as he says, I think the advice
to take it together with some materials to the store and show
them what it's doing is good advice. And I'd be choosing a
different brand of paint next time.






If you are painting plain, flat interior drywall, I think it would be

best to sand the wall with fine sandpaper and start over with fresh

paint from a good brand paint store. The nonsense of drying in 10 sec.

or being so runny is just ridiculous.



I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't

locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies.

Know they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush

strokes does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off

the brush, just 'miracle' stuff.



Paint ALWAYS needs stirring....perhaps the reason you got no brush marks

from that paint is that you used the thinner, upper part of the liquid

and left the heavy solids in the bottom



I would not bother painting unless I used quality (yes, expensive)

paint, roller and/or brush. Good brushes are expensive, but with proper

care will last a lifetime. That said, it takes time and practice to

gain skill at painting...most of the paint companies have all kinds of

tips for choosing product, clear instructions for use, and

skill-building advice. A good paint store can also advise what

additives are useful or beneficial...a business with experience knows

what the sell and how to use it best. Good luck!





I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out

too fast.

On 8/24/2013 1:03 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:30:25 PM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:
On 8/23/2013 10:32 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:



On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.

And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'

strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.





Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...



Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high

quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang

busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10

seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint

can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!



Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that

fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface

according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?

Drywall?



Actions to date:

I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.

and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little

paint.

I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.



Glass cleaner?!??



Almost works.

Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.



What does the label say?





Background:

Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use

sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A

Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit

to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.



Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?



Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,

and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!



Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day

before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.





Need a solution:

What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go

flat BEFORE it dries.

Should I add Jet-Dri?



What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to

your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,

contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us

know what you find out.



This is interesting:

http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19









Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water

base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and

basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some

of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it

never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued

the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd

structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed.

Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove

the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad'

stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I

sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned

the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke,

rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I

found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing.

So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done

FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry

sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade,

formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the

look came out beautiful.



It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks,

the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry

area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse

than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that

was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french

doors.



Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards

W6240 WERSAFLAT base.



For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the

same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry

paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.



Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to

decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web

info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They

don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's

Fahrenheit.



Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and

being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run

a bit of AIR and probably even lower.



That may be PART of your problem. I wonder where/how you stored what was

left of the original paint...garage, very high temp?



Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than

10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like

low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on

the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING!

Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch

the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.



That is plain crazy....no modern paint is supposed to run like low-fat

milk. Most are like thick cream. It is beginning to seem that you

haven't the faintest idea what the label says or why it says what it does.



I agree about the thickness. I haven't done any painting in quite
a while and last year painted a couple of rooms with Benjamin Moore.
It was thicker than I remember other paints being from 15 years ago,
but it was by far the best performing paint I've ever used. No
brush strokes where cutting in, no back spatter from the roller,
beautiful finish, right out of the can.

I normally use BM, but got some Sherwin Williams exterior alkyd semi
when I stripped and painted exterior trim on my daughter's house. That
paint was like pancake batter, it was so thick, but it went on, spread,
levelled like a dream!

At the same time, I just had the fast drying experience that the OP
is talking about. That was with Zinnser oil based stain killer.
It was drying so fast, I was having a hard time getting the brush
strokes out. First I thought it was because it was going on
areas that had been repaired, covered with mud. But it performed
pretty much the same on the areas that were previously painted.

I think Zinsser has a water-based stain blocker, don't they? I know the
shellac based primer dries pretty fast, but I had to sand that project
anyway. Zinsser, I think, might be the oldest of the reliable
stain-blockers, but I would use any of the good brands if they make a
stain-blocker....the labels are pretty reliable.

I used Zinsser water-based (IIRC) on dark walnut-colored Formica
bathroom cabinet....if it didn't work, I would have ripped it out.
Worked fine, with semi alkyd over the primer after repairing the
powdered particle-board doors that had gotten wet. Moisture would seep
between the two Formica surfaces and pop the particle-board. Same thing
with an old kitchen cabinet...I now smear a touch of silicone caulk into
the seams of Formica on my counter to keep unnoticed puddles from
getting down to the p.b.

If I has something to thin it with, I would have done
so, but I wanted to get through the job, so I toughed it out.
Still, as it dried it did pretty much level itself out, but next time if
I need that type of product, I would choose a different brand.
But again that was with a stain killer, so they may be thicker
and have different properties than a regular latex paint.

If the paint is drying as fast as he says, I think the advice
to take it together with some materials to the store and show
them what it's doing is good advice. And I'd be choosing a
different brand of paint next time.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.w172kvvg2cx0wh@ajm...
Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And,
don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes
different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.

Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry! . . . ,

Any chance that you are doing EXTERIOR painting (in the sun, for example),
and not INTERIOR painting?

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 07:30:21 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And,
don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes
different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.


Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!


That's not "high quality paint." It's junk.
Even with a junk brush, decent paint will self-level.
Didn't you post before about some paint that wouldn't dry?
If that was you, maybe you should hire somebody to buy your paint and
do your painting.
Anyway, here's a few tips for everybody who's running into junk paint.
Buy a quart - or pint if available - and try it out before you pay up
for gallons. There's garbage paint out there.
If paint doesn't brush or roll well, thin it. Be careful, and thin it
very little at a time. If you overthin - it's now junk.
And don't use old paint. Buy it when you'll use it, and throw away
whatever's left over.
Whether oil or latex, only put what you'll use in one work session
into the work container, and keep the rest sealed in the can.
As soon as your brush becomes saturated near the handle, dirty,
or stiffens anywhere, stop. Clean your gear.
Same with rollers, but different. If they skip on the surface, or
don't leave a smooth, self-leveling surface, something's wrong.
Stop and figure out what's wrong.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:32:17 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Didn't you post before about some paint that wouldn't dry?
If that was you, maybe you should hire somebody to buy your paint and
do your painting.


OP. Are you the one that painted a stucco exterior on a wall - using a
brush? An complained about the flaws.

Arizona?

"Oren" wrote in message

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:32:17 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Didn't you post before about some paint that wouldn't
dry?
If that was you, maybe you should hire somebody to buy
your paint and do your painting.


OP. Are you the one that painted a stucco exterior on a
wall - using a brush? An complained about the flaws.


Don't know if that was this OP or not but AFAIR the flaws were lap marks.
Not all that long ago.



--

dadiOH
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