OT Bomb threat on EgyptAir plane.

Takes off from Cairo, en route to NYC. After note found in bathroom
diverted to Scotland accompanied by two British figher planes into
Scotland**.

Passengers kept in plane for hours***.


**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:42:23 -0400, micky
wrote:




**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

If a hijacker actually takes over the plane and tries to fly it into a
building or other populated area, yes, they will shoot it down. Better
to lose 250 on an airplane than 5000 in a stadium.



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

That would make sense to me.

Well, theoretically your right.

But considering that so many bomb scares are hoaxes, the practical thing to do is to get the plane on the ground quickly, check it for bombs with a dog sniffing for explosives, and get it back in the air ASAP to minimize the inconvenience to everyone.

That is, after your 100th bomb hoax, it's hard to take #101 seriously. People get complacent and just go through the motions, but don't take #101 nearly as seriously as #1.

On Jun 16, 5:42*am, micky wrote:
*OT * Bomb threat on EgyptAir plane.

Takes off from Cairo, en route to NYC. *After note found in bathroom
diverted to Scotland *accompanied by two British figher planes into
Scotland**.

Passengers kept in plane for hours***.

**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. *What is the point of that? *Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? * Or are they just going to follow him? *Is
the pilot a suspect?

***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

If there is a bomb and the bomb goes off they are dead anyway. So the
plane is diverted to an airport where they can deal with this sort of
thing, flying over unpopulated areas.
They will find the hoaxer (if it is one) by means of cameras.

On 16/06/2013 4:42 AM, micky wrote:
OT Bomb threat on EgyptAir plane.

Takes off from Cairo, en route to NYC. After note found in bathroom
diverted to Scotland accompanied by two British figher planes into
Scotland**.

Passengers kept in plane for hours***.


**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?


If deemed necessary, yes, the plane will be shot down.


***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?


It is rather difficult to get passengers off a plane, until it lands.
You don't think things through do you?

--
Hex

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 08:39:23 +0000, Hector
wrote:



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?


It is rather difficult to get passengers off a plane, until it lands.
You don't think things through do you?

Since the plane landed, it should be fairly easy though. I think he
did think it through.

micky wrote:
-snip-

**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

I hope so--- I would not want to be the military pilot, though from
here it is a cut and dry decision.


***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

And if a passenger *is* the bomb, they just offloaded a bomb into an
airport. First locate [or determine that it isn't there] the
threat-- *then* do something.

Jim

On Jun 16, 2:04*am, nestork wrote:
micky;3078943 Wrote:



If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF the
plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

Well, theoretically your right.

But considering that so many bomb scares are hoaxes, the practical thing
to do is to get the plane on the ground quickly, check it for bombs with
a dog sniffing for explosives, and get it back in the air ASAP to
minimize the inconvenience to everyone.

You haven't followed many of these, have you?
Getting the plane back up in the air as quickly as possible,
isn't much of a priority. Once you have an incident like this, if
you're a passenger, you
can pretty much expect to lose a day, while everyone is
questioned, all the luggage, both carry on and that in the
hold is searched, the plane is checked for bombs, and
they try to figure out who could have been involved.

And in this case, as Micky pointed out, the passengers were
kept on the plane for several hours and only then allowed
to finally get off the plane. Like Micky says, that makes zero
sense to me. If there is potentially a bomb on the plane,
that could still go off at any time, why in the world would
you leave passengers on that plane for HOURS?



That is, after your 100th bomb hoax, it's hard to take #101 seriously.
People get complacent and just go through the motions, but don't take
#101 nearly as seriously as #1.

--
nestork

I'd buy that if they were all hoaxes, but they are not. Just a few
years ago we had the underwear bomber for example on the
plane to Detroit. Plus the same folks who are motivated to do
this demonstrate every day their capacity to carry out a variety
of attacks.


One thing that would be very useful would be for new planes to
have security cameras installed in the aisles, showing who went
into or out of a bathroom, etc. With that, a case like this would
be quickly solved. And it also would deter the idiots trying to pull
a hoax.

On Jun 16, 6:53*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
micky wrote:

-snip-



**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. *What is the point of that? *Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? * Or are they just going to follow him? *Is
the pilot a suspect?

I hope so--- *I would not want to be the military pilot, though from
here it is a cut and dry decision.



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

And if a passenger *is* the bomb, they just offloaded a bomb into an
airport. * *First locate [or determine that it isn't there] the
threat-- *then* do something.

Jim

Nonsense. Airports have procedures for dealing with this that
don't involve bringing passengers off a plane with a bomb threat
into the passenger terminal. They take the plane to a remote
section of the airport grounds. From there, there is no reason you
can't quickly evacuate the plane, getting people off the plane and
away from it so that if it does blow up, they won't be killed. And
then you can walk them or bus them in small groups to an
empty hanger or similar until they can be processed and questioned.
Leaving them on a plane like that for several hours is about
as dumb as it gets. Inconsiderate too.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:41:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 16, 2:04*am, nestork wrote:
micky;3078943 Wrote:



If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF the
plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

Well, theoretically your right.

But considering that so many bomb scares are hoaxes, the practical thing
to do is to get the plane on the ground quickly, check it for bombs with
a dog sniffing for explosives, and get it back in the air ASAP to
minimize the inconvenience to everyone.

You haven't followed many of these, have you?
Getting the plane back up in the air as quickly as possible,
isn't much of a priority. Once you have an incident like this, if
you're a passenger, you
can pretty much expect to lose a day, while everyone is
questioned, all the luggage, both carry on and that in the
hold is searched, the plane is checked for bombs, and
they try to figure out who could have been involved.

And in this case, as Micky pointed out, the passengers were
kept on the plane for several hours and only then allowed
to finally get off the plane. Like Micky says, that makes zero
sense to me. If there is potentially a bomb on the plane,
that could still go off at any time, why in the world would
you leave passengers on that plane for HOURS?

Exactly. And the news reporter interviewed a passenger, who said they
were on the plane for hours. It's bad enough to sit on a plane
that's waiting for clearance, let alone one that's waiting for a bomb
to go off.



That is, after your 100th bomb hoax, it's hard to take #101 seriously.
People get complacent and just go through the motions, but don't take
#101 nearly as seriously as #1.

--
nestork

I'd buy that if they were all hoaxes, but they are not. Just a few
years ago we had the underwear bomber for example on the
plane to Detroit. Plus the same folks who are motivated to do
this demonstrate every day their capacity to carry out a variety
of attacks.

I'd be afraid to be an underwear bomber. I'd be afraid the bomb would
go off, but only a little bit, and it would blow off my organs but not
hurt the plane. I wouldn't want to be a shoe bomber either for the
same reason. And by gosh, neither bomb worked right.


One thing that would be very useful would be for new planes to
have security cameras installed in the aisles, showing who went
into or out of a bathroom, etc. With that, a case like this would
be quickly solved. And it also would deter the idiots trying to pull
a hoax.

You would think they would do something like that by now. So many of
the bomb threats center around the bathrooms.

On Jun 16, 2:37*pm, micky wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:41:28 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Jun 16, 2:04*am, nestork wrote:
micky;3078943 Wrote:

If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF the
plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

Well, theoretically your right.

But considering that so many bomb scares are hoaxes, the practical thing
to do is to get the plane on the ground quickly, check it for bombs with
a dog sniffing for explosives, and get it back in the air ASAP to
minimize the inconvenience to everyone.

You haven't followed many of these, have you?
Getting the plane back up in the air as quickly as possible,
isn't much of a priority. * *Once you have an incident like this, if
you're a passenger, you
can pretty much expect to lose a day, while everyone is
questioned, all the luggage, both carry on and that in the
hold is searched, the plane is checked for bombs, and
they try to figure out who could have been involved.

And in this case, as Micky pointed out, the passengers were
kept on the plane for several hours and only then allowed
to finally get off the plane. *Like Micky says, that makes zero
sense to me. *If there is potentially a bomb on the plane,
that could still go off at any time, why in the world would
you leave passengers on that plane for HOURS?

Exactly. *And the news reporter interviewed a passenger, who said they
were on the plane for hours. * *It's bad enough to sit on a plane
that's waiting for clearance, let alone one that's waiting for a bomb
to go off.



That is, after your 100th bomb hoax, it's hard to take #101 seriously.
People get complacent and just go through the motions, but don't take
#101 nearly as seriously as #1.

--
nestork

I'd buy that if they were all hoaxes, but they are not. *Just a few
years ago we had the underwear bomber for example on the
plane to Detroit. * Plus the same folks who are motivated to do
this demonstrate every day their capacity to carry out a variety
of attacks.

I'd be afraid to be an underwear bomber. *I'd be afraid the bomb would
go off, but only a little bit, and it would blow off my organs but not
hurt the plane. * I wouldn't want to be a shoe bomber either for the
same reason. * And by gosh, neither bomb worked right.



One thing that would be very useful would be for new planes to
have security cameras installed in the aisles, showing who went
into or out of a bathroom, etc. * With that, a case like this would
be quickly solved. *And it also would deter the idiots trying to pull
a hoax.

You would think they would do something like that by now. *So many of
the bomb threats center around the bathrooms.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For new planes you would think it would be on the list of important
gear by now. For a little cost they could keep track of who goes into
the bathrooms. In many cases one camera pointed down the aisle
could cover the bathroom and the aisle for a good length of the plane.

But to add it to existing planes, unless it's a complete cabin
overhaul,
probably not worth it in terms of cost/benefit to the airline. I
guess they
could put up a fake one. Even that would probably discourage some
people, because they don't know if it's real or not. But then you
have
to be so dumb or insane to do anything on an airplane today that maybe
it wouldn't discourage them either....

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 01:14:30 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:42:23 -0400, micky
wrote:




**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

If a hijacker actually takes over the plane and tries to fly it into a
building or other populated area, yes, they will shoot it down. Better
to lose 250 on an airplane than 5000 in a stadium.

The cabins are all hardened, I thought. and it's been so long since a
hijacker made itinto the cabin, I forgot about that.


***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

That would make sense to me.

Trying to learn more about this part, I found " One passenger later
told NY1 travelers were not allowed to evacuate the plane in Glasgow
for an agonizing amount of time while authorities investigated the
threat.

“To be sitting on the plane for four hours thinking at any given time
the whole plane could blow up and not knowing whether or not, the
first thing that one wants to do is get off the plane, but we couldn't
get off the plane," said one passenger who was not identified by name.

Read mo
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz2WPKW4TBi
"

I also learned that the big news today is that 5 of the passengers
are seeking asylum. Syrians.

wrote in message
...
On Jun 16, 6:53 am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
micky wrote:

-snip-



**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

I hope so--- I would not want to be the military pilot, though from
here it is a cut and dry decision.



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

And if a passenger *is* the bomb, they just offloaded a bomb into an
airport. First locate [or determine that it isn't there] the
threat-- *then* do something.

Jim

Nonsense. Airports have procedures for dealing with this that
don't involve bringing passengers off a plane with a bomb threat
into the passenger terminal. They take the plane to a remote
section of the airport grounds. From there, there is no reason you
can't quickly evacuate the plane, getting people off the plane and
away from it so that if it does blow up, they won't be killed. And
then you can walk them or bus them in small groups to an
empty hanger or similar until they can be processed and questioned.
Leaving them on a plane like that for several hours is about
as dumb as it gets. Inconsiderate too.

Maybe. But many airports don't have a secure area where hundreds of people
can be kept until they're screened and examined and the airports don't have
staff at the ready to do that either. Keeping everyone on the plane for
four hours where there's likely to be food/water/toilets may also be the
safest thing to do considering the potential risk to others using the
airport.

Tomsic

Basic logical question of this thread:

If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of
them placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when
the bomb goes off?

Tomsic wrote:

Airports have procedures for dealing with this that don't involve
bringing passengers off a plane with a bomb threat into the
passenger terminal. They take the plane to a remote section of
the airport grounds. From there, there is no reason you can't
quickly evacuate the plane, getting people off the plane and
away from it so that if it does blow up, they won't be killed.

The truth is that we humans impliment efficient systems for things we do
often. That goes for factory workers building cars, fire-fighters
responding to a blaze, paramedics responding to accidents, doctors
performing surgery - you name it.

People who work at airports have well-defined jobs and tasks (that they
carry out every day) that in theory include how to deal with a
potentially dangerous plane or passenger, but the truth is that unless
they do something at least once a day or once a week, these
seldom-performed tasks are met with confusion and uncertainty.

In short - land the plane, make it park somewhere distant from the
terminal, make lots of phone calls and try to figure out who is in
charge and what the plan is.

On Jun 16, 11:53*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
micky wrote:

-snip-



**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. *What is the point of that? *Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? * Or are they just going to follow him? *Is
the pilot a suspect?

I hope so--- *I would not want to be the military pilot, though from
here it is a cut and dry decision.



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? * They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

And if a passenger *is* the bomb, they just offloaded a bomb into an
airport. * *First locate [or determine that it isn't there] the
threat-- *then* do something.

Jim

There was another incident here yesterday with a US bound plane.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8592070.stm

On 6/18/2013 2:26 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 16, 11:53 am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
micky wrote:

-snip-



**This is not the first bomb threat on a plane where fighters
accompanied the plane. What is the point of that? Do they think the
pilot is going to fly off somewhere else, and do they plan to shoot
the plane down if he does? Or are they just going to follow him? Is
the pilot a suspect?

I hope so--- I would not want to be the military pilot, though from
here it is a cut and dry decision.



***If there really is a bomb, shouldnt' they get the passengers OFF
the plane? They don't have to let them go free, assuming one of them
placed the bomb, but why should all the passengers die when the bomb
goes off?

And if a passenger *is* the bomb, they just offloaded a bomb into an
airport. First locate [or determine that it isn't there] the
threat-- *then* do something.

Jim

There was another incident here yesterday with a US bound plane.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8592070.stm


I'm starting to think like a conspiracy nut when all these wild events
start happening when too much attention is paid to the wrongdoing going
on in government. I often think of wild news stories of attention
grabbing behavior as "How convenient!". Yesterday, all the headlines
were about X politician or government agency committing X crimes. It
does make me suspicious. o_O

TDD