A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer
installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas
Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. I
objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which
the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. Yesterday I
was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas
connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed
on flexible connecting pipe. He implied that it was not illegal. The
type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...464-c-9448.htm
I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not
exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? My
question is: Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible
piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??

On Jun 13, 7:55*am, Ken wrote:
* * * * A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer
installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas
Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. *I
objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which
the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. *Yesterday I
was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas
connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed
on flexible connecting pipe. *He implied that it was not illegal. *The
type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...e-tubing-fitti...
* * * * I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not
exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? *My
question is: *Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible
piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??

It's an interesting question. I think the key to your question may be
what's the definition of "installed on a flexible connecting pipe".
Seems
there are several possibilities:

A - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve itself
is not
secured to anything other than the flex pipe.

B - It's on one end of a flex line and the other end of the valve is
connected to rigid pipe.

C - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve is
fastened
to a support

From what your furnace guy was going to do sounds like it was
method A. I would not think that would be allowed, but then one
would think that if this was a real HVAC company doing the install,
they would be familiar with the code. If an inspection/permit was
required, then you would think the installers would know what is
or isn't allowed or else it's going to fail.

I would think option C would have to be allowed, because CSST
is used for all kinds of gas piping now, not just for short connection
to an appliance. So, if you have CSST running through a building,
you're going to have to have valves in places.

Hopefully someone will know the actual code.

wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:55 am, Ken wrote:
A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer
installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas
Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. I
objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which
the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. Yesterday I
was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas
connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed
on flexible connecting pipe. He implied that it was not illegal. The
type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...e-tubing-fitti...
I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not
exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? My
question is: Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible
piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??

It's an interesting question. I think the key to your question may be
what's the definition of "installed on a flexible connecting pipe".
Seems
there are several possibilities:

A - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve itself
is not
secured to anything other than the flex pipe.

B - It's on one end of a flex line and the other end of the valve is
connected to rigid pipe.

C - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve is
fastened
to a support

From what your furnace guy was going to do sounds like it was
method A. I would not think that would be allowed, but then one
would think that if this was a real HVAC company doing the install,
they would be familiar with the code. If an inspection/permit was
required, then you would think the installers would know what is
or isn't allowed or else it's going to fail.

I would think option C would have to be allowed, because CSST
is used for all kinds of gas piping now, not just for short connection
to an appliance. So, if you have CSST running through a building,
you're going to have to have valves in places.

Hopefully someone will know the actual code.

Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have been more explicit.

Originally, the gas valve was attached to rigid pipe and a flex line
(about 2 foot) was run from the gas control valve to the old furnace.
This is how most gas connections are made to things like gas clothes
dryers. When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace. (Where the access
panels are) In order to make the connection from the existing rigid
pipe to the new furnace, he removed the cut off valve from the rigid
pipe, attached a flex pipe about 6-8 feet long, attached the cut off
valve to the end of it, and finally ran a 2 foot flex pipe to the
furnace control valve. In other words, the cut off valve was at the end
of a long flex pipe and not directly attached to rigid pipe.

I hope the above clarifies the situation. Of the choices above, I
would say that (A) was probably the best description. I felt
uncomfortable with a flex line that long and felt it was vulnerable with
no way to cut off the gas if it leaked. Perhaps I was overly cautious?

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:55:44 AM UTC-7, Ken wrote:
A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer

installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas

Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. I

objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which

the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. Yesterday I

was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas

connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed

on flexible connecting pipe. He implied that it was not illegal. The

type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:



http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...464-c-9448.htm

I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not

exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? My

question is: Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible

piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??

I don’t know the exact NPC code but that is definitely illegal.

On Jun 13, 7:06*am, Ken wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:55 am, Ken wrote:
* * * * *A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer
installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas
Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. *I
objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which
the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. *Yesterday I
was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas
connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed
on flexible connecting pipe. *He implied that it was not illegal. *The
type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...e-tubing-fitti....
* * * * *I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not
exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? *My
question is: *Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible
piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??

It's an interesting question. *I think the key to your question may be
what's the definition of "installed on a flexible connecting pipe".
Seems
there are several possibilities:

A - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve itself
is not
secured to anything other than the flex pipe.

B - It's on one end of a flex line and the other end of the valve is
connected to rigid pipe.

C - It's installed in the middle of a flex line and the valve is
fastened
to a support

*From what your furnace guy was going to do sounds like it was
method A. *I would not think that would be allowed, but then one
would think that if this was a real HVAC company doing the install,
they would be familiar with the code. * If an inspection/permit was
required, then you would think the installers would know what is
or isn't allowed or else it's going to fail.

I would think option C would have to be allowed, because CSST
is used for all kinds of gas piping now, not just for short connection
to an appliance. * So, if you have CSST running through a building,
you're going to have to have valves in places.

Hopefully someone will know the actual code.

* * * * Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have been more explicit.

* * * * Originally, the gas valve was attached to rigid pipe and a flex line
(about 2 foot) was run from the gas control valve to the old furnace.
This is how most gas connections are made to things like gas clothes
dryers. *When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace. *(Where the access
panels are) *In order to make the connection from the existing rigid
pipe to the new furnace, he removed the cut off valve from the rigid
pipe, attached a flex pipe about 6-8 feet long, attached the cut off
valve to the end of it, and finally ran a 2 foot flex pipe to the
furnace control valve. *In other words, the cut off valve was at the end
of a long flex pipe and not directly attached to rigid pipe.

* * * * I hope the above clarifies the situation. *Of the choices above, I
would say that (A) was probably the best description. *I felt
uncomfortable with a flex line that long and felt it was vulnerable with
no way to cut off the gas if it leaked. *Perhaps I was overly cautious?

In other words.... he did a hack job / "scab on" because he wanted to
finish in the minimum amount of time.

"He implied that it was not illegal." Of course he did... to support
his poor installation job.

In dependent of whether it was legal or not, how many people would
chose that installation means over piped close & valve securely
anchored?

The code is the minimum acceptable standard.. the minimum is not
always "best practice".

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 06:55:44 -0500, Ken wrote:

A couple of years ago I had my furnace replaced and the installer
installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace on the flexible Gas
Appliance Connector rather than on the rigid pipe feeding it. I
objected and made him run additional rigid pipe up to the point at which
the cutoff valve was installed because I saw it as unsafe. Yesterday I
was talking to a plumber who was installing rigid pipe for a gas
connection and mentioned my objection to the gas valve being installed
on flexible connecting pipe. He implied that it was not illegal. The
type of piping I am talking about can be seen at:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...464-c-9448.htm
I realize there are many new choices for connecting gas that did not
exist years ago, so perhaps he is referring to one of those? My
question is: Is it legal (to code) to put a cutoff valve on flexible
piping such as the link above shows, or must it be on rigid pipe??
It's legal, but certainly not "smart".

This is really great information

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:06:42 -0500, Ken wrote:

When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace.

What I hear you say is that this installer would not spend a few bucks
to extend the rigid pipe closer to the connection point and put the
valve on the rigid pipe.

I would not have a gas valve in the middle of a flex line that you
showed. That is silly, even it MAY happen to be legal, but I would
disagree that it is.

Just sayin'

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:51:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:06:42 -0500, Ken wrote:

When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace.

What I hear you say is that this installer would not spend a few bucks
to extend the rigid pipe closer to the connection point and put the
valve on the rigid pipe.

I would not have a gas valve in the middle of a flex line that you
showed. That is silly, even it MAY happen to be legal, but I would
disagree that it is.

Just sayin'

Isn't the weakness of flex pipe that it leaks after enough flexing?

What good is it to put the valve on the end of a leaking pipe?

It should be on the end of a pipe that doesn't leak.

On Jun 15, 1:23*am, micky wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:51:09 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:06:42 -0500, Ken wrote:

When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace.

What I hear you say is that this installer would not spend a few bucks
to extend the rigid pipe closer to the connection point and put the
valve on the rigid pipe.

I would not have a gas valve in the middle of a flex line that you
showed. That is silly, even it MAY happen to be legal, but I would
disagree that it is.

Just sayin'

Isn't the weakness of flex pipe that it *leaks after enough flexing?

What good is it to put the valve on the end of a leaking pipe?

It should be on the end of a pipe that doesn't leak.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

While I agree it should go before the flex pipe when connecting an
appliance, there is still some purpose to the valve in any case.
It's primary use is to shut off the gas while connecting or
disconnecting
the appliance.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 01:23:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 11:51:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:06:42 -0500, Ken wrote:

When he took out the original furnace, he changed the position
of it in a way that the existing rigid pipe was several (perhaps six)
feet away from the control area of the furnace.

What I hear you say is that this installer would not spend a few bucks
to extend the rigid pipe closer to the connection point and put the
valve on the rigid pipe.

I would not have a gas valve in the middle of a flex line that you
showed. That is silly, even it MAY happen to be legal, but I would
disagree that it is.

Just sayin'

Isn't the weakness of flex pipe that it leaks after enough flexing?

What good is it to put the valve on the end of a leaking pipe?

It should be on the end of a pipe that doesn't leak.
And pipe that can leak should not be allowed.