Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is used
for both potable and hot water. The system is 18 years old and works
great. The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water injected
into the loop as needed. Piping and Fittings are polyethylene rated for
this use with a few copper fittings here and there.

I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable and
HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One plumber
says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. Another plumber
says no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree. To me it doesn't make sense to
use a boiler since my system does not require high water temperatures.
What does the code truly require?

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Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Jun 3, 10:44*am, dparent55
wrote:
I live in Maine. *My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is used
for both potable and hot water. *The system is 18 years old and works
great. *The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water injected
into the loop as needed. *Piping and Fittings are polyethylene rated for
this use with a few copper fittings here and there.

I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable and
HW. *Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? *One plumber
says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. *Another plumber
says no. *Multiple pro's seem to disagree. *To me it doesn't make sense to
use a boiler since my system does not require high water temperatures.
What does the code truly require?

--
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to *home and garden related *groups

Check with your local building department

I agree that you need to speak to your local plumbing inspector on this.

The reason why you're not allowed to mix hydronic heating water with potable water is that hydronic heating systems will often use corrosion inhibitor chemicals in them to prevent corrosion of the iron boiler and radiators, and you don't want to be drinking those chemicals.

However, in your case, your heating water is coming out of a water heater, not a boiler, and that's where the issue about separating the two waters arises. There's no problem drinking water that comes out of a hot water heater, and I don't see how it traveling through the radiant floor heating system can make it any less healthy to drink.

In fact, I have trouble understanding why, if there is no corrosion inhibitor added to hydronic heating water, why it would be unsafe to drink either. It may be black in colour because of the iron oxide in it, but that's no different than drinking water that's brownish in colour because of the rust in it, and people do that all the time.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

dparent55 wrote:
I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is
used for both potable and hot water. The system is 18 years old and
works great. The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water
injected into the loop as needed. Piping and Fittings are
polyethylene rated for this use with a few copper fittings here and
there.
I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable
and HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One plumber
says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. Another plumber says
no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree. To me it
doesn't make sense to use a boiler since my system does not require
high water temperatures. What does the code truly require?

It's OK in Seattle. Does that help a lot?

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

dparent55 wrote:
I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is
used for both potable and hot water. The system is 18 years old and
works great. The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water
injected into the loop as needed. Piping and Fittings are
polyethylene rated for this use with a few copper fittings here and
there.
I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable
and HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One
plumber says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. Another
plumber says no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree. To me it
doesn't make sense to use a boiler since my system does not require
high water temperatures. What does the code truly require?

Water from a water heater is not potable. Maybe legally it is, but water
from a water heater should never be consumed. It is used for bathing,
washing, etc., but not for cooking or drinking.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

HeyBub wrote:
dparent55 wrote:
I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit
unorthodox. The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water
heater that is used for both potable and hot water. The system is
18 years old and works great. The hot water feeds a radiant floor
heating system that continually circulates the water in a heating
loop with hot water injected into the loop as needed. Piping and
Fittings are polyethylene rated for this use with a few copper
fittings here and there.
I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable
and HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One
plumber says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler.
Another plumber says no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree. To me it
doesn't make sense to use a boiler since my system does not require
high water temperatures. What does the code truly require?

Water from a water heater is not potable. Maybe legally it is, but
water from a water heater should never be consumed. It is used for
bathing, washing, etc., but not for cooking or drinking.

They sell a lot of those "instant hot water" dispensors, considering what you
say here.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Jun 3, 12:34*pm, "
wrote:
On Jun 3, 10:44*am, dparent55





wrote:
I live in Maine. *My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox..
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is used
for both potable and hot water. *The system is 18 years old and works
great. *The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water injected
into the loop as needed. *Piping and Fittings are polyethylene rated for
this use with a few copper fittings here and there.

I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable and
HW. *Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? *One plumber
says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. *Another plumber
says no. *Multiple pro's seem to disagree. *To me it doesn't make sense to
use a boiler since my system does not require high water temperatures.
What does the code truly require?

--
posted fromhttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/separating-potable-water-fro...
using *HomeOwnersHub's *Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to *home and garden related *groups

Check with your local building department- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

+1

I see companies selling heat exchangers for that purpose.
So apparently they are permitted, at least in some places.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 15:44:01 +0000, dparent55
wrote:

I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is used
for both potable and hot water.


I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable and
HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One plumber
says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. Another plumber
says no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree.


Not seeing your system, it is impossible to say. It is possible and
done frequently, to add a heat exchange on a regular boiler to make
potable hot water separate from the heating system.

This is one of many systems that work with a regular heating boiler. I
don't know if it can be adapted to your setup or not.
http://www.amtrol.com/boilermate.html

Efficient boilers and heat exchangers here too.
www.energykinetics.com

Since you are still alive, I guess your system works, but no way would
I buy your house like that.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
dparent55 wrote:
I live in Maine. My heating and hot water system is a bit unorthodox.
The system is designed around an 80000BTU/h hot water heater that is
used for both potable and hot water. The system is 18 years old and
works great. The hot water feeds a radiant floor heating system that
continually circulates the water in a heating loop with hot water
injected into the loop as needed. Piping and Fittings are
polyethylene rated for this use with a few copper fittings here and
there.
I am told that the system is not to code due to the mixing of potable
and HW. Can I install a heat exchanger between the two circuits? One
plumber says that code requires the use of a hot water boiler. Another
plumber says no. Multiple pro's seem to disagree. To me it
doesn't make sense to use a boiler since my system does not require
high water temperatures. What does the code truly require?

Water from a water heater is not potable. Maybe legally it is, but water
from a water heater should never be consumed. It is used for bathing,
washing, etc., but not for cooking or drinking.


Why ?
What is the problem if you keep your heater clean, have clean water go in,
and the temp is high enough to prevent growth of anything live ?

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

Attila Iskander wrote:

Water from a water heater is not potable. Maybe legally it is, but water
from a water heater should never be consumed. It is used for bathing,
washing, etc., but not for cooking or drinking.


Why ?
What is the problem if you keep your heater clean, have clean water
go in, and the temp is high enough to prevent growth of anything live
?

Ah, that's just it; the water heater temperature is NOT sufficient to kill
anything alive. For example:

"On the side of most water heaters you’ll find a warning that says water
temperatures of 125 degrees Fahrenheit can cause burns or death. To be
safe, the water coming out of the plumbing fixtures in a home shouldn’t be
any hotter than 120 degrees.

"At temperatures below 135 to 140, Legionellae bacteria, which is
responsible for Legionnaires’ Disease, can survive and even multiply in the
water heater tank. Estimates by LegionellaPrevention.org say that up to
600,000 cases of Legionnaires’ Disease are misdiagnosed as pnemonia each
year, because this is something that isn’t tested for in hospitals."

It takes a temperature of 158 degrees to kill the Legionnaire's Disease
bacteria.

See:
http://www.structuretech1.com/2012/04/water-heater-temperature/

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Jun 5, 7:42*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Attila Iskander wrote:
Water from a water heater is not potable. Maybe legally it is, but water
from a water heater should never be consumed. It is used for bathing,
washing, etc., but not for cooking or drinking.

Why ?
What is the problem if you keep your heater clean, have clean water
go in, and the temp is high enough to prevent growth of anything live
?

Ah, that's just it; the water heater temperature is NOT sufficient to kill
anything alive. For example:

"On the side of most water heaters you’ll find a warning that says water
temperatures of 125 degrees Fahrenheit can cause burns or death. *To be
safe, the water coming out of the plumbing fixtures in a home shouldn’t be
any hotter than 120 degrees.

"At temperatures below 135 to 140, Legionellae bacteria, which is
responsible for Legionnaires’ Disease, can survive and even multiply in the
water heater tank. Estimates by LegionellaPrevention.org say that up to
600,000 cases of Legionnaires’ Disease are misdiagnosed as pnemonia each
year, because this is something that isn’t tested for in hospitals."

It takes a temperature of 158 degrees to kill the Legionnaire's Disease
bacteria.

See:
http://www.structuretech1.com/2012/04/water-heater-temperature/

Has anyone gotten legionaires from drinking water though? All
the cases I've heard of I thought it was aspirated, like from misting
systems, spray fountains, showers, etc?

Even if a hot water tank is kept hot enough so bacteria isn't a
problem,
the water coming out, in my experience, isn't fit to drink if you
don't have to.
The tank has all kinds of sediment build-up and if you taste the water
it doesn't taste very good at all.

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 10:24:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Has anyone gotten legionaires from drinking water though? All


In these combination systems I don't think you expect to drink the hot water. You just get your heating water and your domestic hot water from the same boiler. If you have a water softener you shouldn't drink hot water anyway, it has salt in it.

We installed a couple of these systems at work years ago, I think the brand was Apollo. They met code in Virginia. I was skeptical but they worked fine.

When we lived in Germany we had an oil fired boiler that supplied both hydronic heat (heated tile bathroom floors - very nice on a cold morning!) and the hot water for showers etc. Germany is very strict on code (DIN).

Separating Potable Water from Heating Water Loop
 

On Jun 5, 12:08*pm, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 10:24:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Has anyone gotten legionaires from drinking water though? *All

In these combination systems I don't think you expect to drink the hot water. *You just get your heating water and your domestic hot water from the same boiler.

In the system in question, he doesn't have a boiler, he has a
conventional water heater that's being used to supply hot water
to the house and for radiant heat. But the issue of legionaires in
hot water would apply to any tank type water heater.



*If you have a water softener you shouldn't drink hot water anyway, it has salt in it.

Don;t most residential water softening systems feed softened
water to the cold water taps too?







We installed a couple of these systems at work years ago, I think the brand was Apollo. *They met code in Virginia. *I was skeptical but they worked fine.

When we lived in Germany we had an oil fired boiler that supplied both hydronic heat (heated tile bathroom floors - very nice on a cold morning!) and the hot water for showers etc. *Germany is very strict on code (DIN).