On Fri, 24 May 2013 16:46:51 -0500, CRNG wrote:

What happened to the kid's dad? Did he run out on her?

It's a long story, and it's OT, but suffice to say she put up
with way more for far too long than she should have, so, the
current situation ... as bad as it is ... is still better for
her and her kids (she has them 100% of the time) than the previous
situation was.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 17:35:31 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

They don't rust.

I don't understand.
Mine are as rusty as can be.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13146489.jpg

I'm thinking of oiling them - but maybe there's a better way?

On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:

Sometimes, the snake reaches a Tee connection
That makes sense, as the 1/4" snake just wouldn't go further than 10 feet.
It bunched up, and that makes sense that it would do that at a "T".

the snakes that you have were too long to easily work with

In hindsight, I must agree. The clog was less than 3 feet in.
I desperately wanted to go deeper, but the most I could go was about 10
feet, and nothing came back hooked on the line when I did.

If it gets clogged right away, as soon as the shower starts
draining, the clog is near the drain entrance

Now that you mention it, when I had turned on the water initially,
the drain pipe filled up within about 15 or 20 seconds (I didn't
know enough to look closer at the timing though). In hindsight,
the hair clog was probably at the first trap under the house
(I assume there are traps in the crawl space?).

you have to allow the snake to lay out horizontally across the
floor in a fairly straight line

Ah, I see. Thank you for answering that question. For a brand new
snake, that shouldn't be a problem; but I would think it problematic
for the rusty ones on the white carpet.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:

they drag out big wads of hair like what you discovered.

How long do you think it took for this "wad" to build up?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144696.jpg

Should she have used a better drain cover than the one she has,
with, oh, about ten 3/8" or so holes in it?

On May 24, 1:17*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:03:01 -0700, jamesgang wrote:
Find someone that know's what they are doing.

Well, I learned that both snakes I bought fail for different
reasons, so now I know two things I had not known before.

The 25 foot 1/4 inch snake wouldn't go more than about
10 feet, which, I think, was because it was too thin.

The 50 foot 3/8 inch snake wouldn't go more than about
3 feet, which, I think, was because it was too thick.

BTW, how do you *coil up* those 50 feet snakes when you're
all done with them?

*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144695.jpg

Very carefullyg.

On May 24, 1:32*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 15:34:56 -0400, Retired wrote:
If clog, go to hardware and get the "Drain-O" type kit that has the red
plastic "snake" . It is thin enough to fit without needing to remove
drain plug cover.

Luckily the drain cover popped out with a twist of a screwdriver.

Now that I have my first experience with a shower stall, I must ask
how you're *supposed* to twist the darn 3/8" snake by hand?

They give you a handle which I used like this to get the hair out:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144692.jpg

But, every time I tried to twist that almost-straight handle, *this*
twisting mess is what happened to the cable:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144691.jpg

May I ask:
*How are you supposed to spin that 3/8" cable with that handle
*without twisting the rest of the cable into a gory mess?

You only have about 6" of snake between the handle and the drain
opening. You work that 6" down and then move the handle 6" away from
the drain and repeat over and over until things work ok. Patience (and
sometime a half-galon of Draino) always wins.

Danny D writes:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 17:35:31 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

They don't rust.

I don't understand.
Mine are as rusty as can be.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13146489.jpg

I'm thinking of oiling them - but maybe there's a better way?

The one on the right is pretty rusty.
I don't do anything to mine, just hang it back up in a dry basement.
It has a blackish fine coat of rust.

Let me re-phrase, it won't rust apart and works in the condition you
show. Usage should clean that up a bit.

I wouldn't put oil on tools that will spread that oil around the
household.

--
Dan Espen

On May 24, 6:48*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:
Sometimes, the snake reaches a Tee connection

That makes sense, as the 1/4" snake just wouldn't go further than 10 feet..
It bunched up, and that makes sense that it would do that at a "T".

the snakes that you have were too long to easily work with

In hindsight, I must agree. The clog was less than 3 feet in.
I desperately wanted to go deeper, but the most I could go was about 10
feet, and nothing came back hooked on the line when I did.

If it gets clogged right away, as soon as the shower starts
draining, the clog is near the drain entrance

Now that you mention it, when I had turned on the water initially,
the drain pipe filled up within about 15 or 20 seconds (I didn't
know enough to look closer at the timing though). In hindsight,
the hair clog was probably at the first trap under the house
(I assume there are traps in the crawl space?).

you have to allow the snake to lay out horizontally across the
floor in a fairly straight line

Ah, I see. Thank you for answering that question. For a brand new
snake, that shouldn't be a problem; but I would think it problematic
for the rusty ones on the white carpet.

YES

"Danny D" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 11:35:10 -0700, wrote:

How dumb is she to let that happen?

She is a hard-working single mom, who had to take showers to go
to work to feed her kids. She pours out her heart for those kids.

She could use the help - so I was glad to try, even though I was
clearly clueless myself. Luckily, she cleaned up the mess that
I left as I hadn't thought ahead to bring any cleaning supplies
with me (where are my pool chemicals when I need them!).

Anyway, the hair clog wouldn't plunge out, but it came out within
seconds of inserting the 3/8" snake about 3 feet. I spent more time
trying to get the snakes to go their full length (to ensure that
I did my best for her).

In doing so, my biggest dilemma was trying to figure out *why*
the two snakes wouldn't go anywhere near their full lengths!

I couldn't believe that these 2-inch (or so) pipes wouldn't take
a quarter inch snake further than about 10 feet, nor would the
pipes accommodate the 3/8 inch snake more than about 3 feet.

What did I do wrong that those snakes wouldn't travel their
full lengths?




Most likely you ran into a 90 degree connection, and had got stuck against
it.
The trick is to have a slight bend at the head of the snake about 1-2" back
This does 2 things
1) It helps when you need to get around a T (usually at the standpipe
2) It whips the head around the internal circumference of the pipe and
cleans off all the goo stuck inside the pipe.

"Danny D" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:41:01 -0700, Paul Drahn wrote:

Hair in the trap, for sure!

As you surmised, it was a clump of long brunette hair!

Simply use a sink plunger to loosen the plug

I plunged for a half hour, to no effect (other than to
bring up some horrid black goop from God knows where)...

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144697.jpg



The black goo is usually the oily residue from conditioner.

"Danny D" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:03:01 -0700, jamesgang wrote:

Find someone that know's what they are doing.

Well, I learned that both snakes I bought fail for different
reasons, so now I know two things I had not known before.

The 25 foot 1/4 inch snake wouldn't go more than about
10 feet, which, I think, was because it was too thin.

The 50 foot 3/8 inch snake wouldn't go more than about
3 feet, which, I think, was because it was too thick.

BTW, how do you *coil up* those 50 feet snakes when you're
all done with them?

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144695.jpg




Didn't it come with a reel ?
If not just go and buy a reel that will hold it

"Danny D" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:33:45 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

Get a closet snake. take the drain cover off and snake to the main
drain, which a 6' closet snake will do

I'm not sure where or what a closet snake is.

Do you mean this type (with the drill attachment)?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13144688.jpg

The problem with that 25 foot 1/4 inch snake was that it wouldn't
go past the length you see there (about 10 feet) into the drain.

I don't know what stopped it, but even after trying for 15 minutes,
I couldn't get it to go any deeper than 10 feet.

Would someone with more experience than I kindly explain *why* that
thin snake wouldn't go more than 10 feet down a shower drain pipe?




As posted elsewhere, the 25' snake probable got stuck at a bend or a T.
Put a slight kink about 10-15 degree right behind the expanded wire
This will usually help it work it's way past corners and bends.

"ChairMan" wrote in message
...
In ,
Danny D belched:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:33:45 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

Get a closet snake. take the drain cover off and snake to the main
drain, which a 6' closet snake will do

I'm not sure where or what a closet snake is.

Do you mean this type (with the drill attachment)?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13144688.jpg

The problem with that 25 foot 1/4 inch snake was that it wouldn't
go past the length you see there (about 10 feet) into the drain.

I don't know what stopped it, but even after trying for 15 minutes,
I couldn't get it to go any deeper than 10 feet.

Would someone with more experience than I kindly explain *why* that
thin snake wouldn't go more than 10 feet down a shower drain pipe?

Damn, son.
If you don't know , maybe you shouldn't be doing the repairs that your
doin
http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumb...let_clog_6.htm



At one point in time, you didn't know it either
No reason to be an ass about the fact that now you do and he doesn't

And a "closet snake" is for use in a clogged toilet bowl.
People throw all kinds of stuff down a toilet.
The current most popular are the bleach wipes.
Since they don't dissolve like toilet paper, they tend to clog up real fast.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 21:32:11 -0500, Attila Iskander wrote:

The black goo is usually the oily residue from conditioner.

Now that's interesting. It was black, but didn't smell bad.
It washed off my hands easily. Conditioner makes sense.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 21:33:22 -0500, Attila Iskander wrote:

Didn't it come with a reel ?

Nope. It was tie wrapped (which is what I'm going to do
with it right now, as my 'main' snake will be the one
in the drum.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 21:35:33 -0500, Attila Iskander wrote:

Put a slight kink about 10-15 degree right behind the expanded wire
This will usually help it work it's way past corners and bends.

Understood! Thanks.

In ,
Attila Iskander belched:
"ChairMan" wrote in message
...
In ,
Danny D belched:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:33:45 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

Get a closet snake. take the drain cover off and snake to the main
drain, which a 6' closet snake will do

I'm not sure where or what a closet snake is.

Do you mean this type (with the drill attachment)?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13144688.jpg

The problem with that 25 foot 1/4 inch snake was that it wouldn't
go past the length you see there (about 10 feet) into the drain.

I don't know what stopped it, but even after trying for 15 minutes,
I couldn't get it to go any deeper than 10 feet.

Would someone with more experience than I kindly explain *why* that
thin snake wouldn't go more than 10 feet down a shower drain pipe?

Damn, son.
If you don't know , maybe you shouldn't be doing the repairs that
your doin
http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumb...let_clog_6.htm



At one point in time, you didn't know it either
No reason to be an ass about the fact that now you do and he doesn't

That maybe so, but I've never used a tool without knowing how to use it.
People can get hurt that way and you can make a simple problem much worse.
And i don't feel I was being an ass, just stating the obvious, because from
his own photos it doesn't look like he even know how to use a snake. Or how
to use google or youtube
You don't pull the whole cable out and try to feed it in.
With the time and money he has spent he could of easily hire someone,
watched and learned more than he could here. With a lot less headaches
Also, I was basing my comment on the number of post he's made on the many
things he doesn't know.
I have no problem with teaching or helping someone to learn, but they have
to be willing to do a little work for them self.



And a "closet snake" is for use in a clogged toilet bowl.

True, it is designed for toilets, but can be used successfully in other
drains.
As a matter of fact, I 've used one in a shower before

People throw all kinds of stuff down a toilet.
The current most popular are the bleach wipes.
Since they don't dissolve like toilet paper, they tend to clog up
real fast.

So, we're not talking about what people put down toilets

On May 24, 3:28*pm, "TomR" wrote:
Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:33:45 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

Get a closet snake. take the drain cover off and snake to the main
drain, which a 6' closet snake will do

I'm not sure where or what a closet snake is.

Do you mean this type (with the drill attachment)?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13144688.jpg

The problem with that 25 foot 1/4 inch snake was that it wouldn't
go past the length you see there (about 10 feet) into the drain.

I don't know what stopped it, but even after trying for 15 minutes,
I couldn't get it to go any deeper than 10 feet.

Would someone with more experience than I kindly explain *why* that
thin snake wouldn't go more than 10 feet down a shower drain pipe?

Sometimes, the snake reaches a Tee connection and it can't make the turn to
continue further down in the pipe.

Sometimes, you can get it to go past where it is hung up by doing the twist
routine while pushing slightly on the snake. *I think the spiral coiled end
can then sometimes sort of thread itself forward and allow the snake to get
past the hard turn.

Generally speaking, the snakes that you have were too long to easily work
with in the situation that you had. *One way to know if the clog is far down
in the pipe and not just near the drain entrance is if it takes a awhile
with the water flowing down the drain before it starts to back up into the
shower or tub. *That can sometimes mean that the drain pipe has to fill with
water first all the way down to the clog before it backs up into the shower
or tub. *If it gets clogged right away, as soon as the shower starts
draining, the clog is near the drain entrance (and, as others have said,
that is where it usually is).

Your prior question about how to twist the snake and not cause it to curl up
in the room where you are working is that you have to allow the snake to lay
out horizontally across the floor in a fairly straight line and into the
next room if needed. *That way, the whole snake can turn freely on the floor
and that keeps it from getting tangled/curled.

If you go tohttp://YouTube.comand do a search for "unclog a tub drain" or
something similar, you'll see lots of useful videos on how to do it. *Many
will show the Zip-It or similar cheap plastic hair removal devices and how
they drag out big wads of hair like what you discovered.

TomR-

Great summary & explanation.

On May 24, 4:48*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:
Sometimes, the snake reaches a Tee connection

That makes sense, as the 1/4" snake just wouldn't go further than 10 feet..
It bunched up, and that makes sense that it would do that at a "T".

the snakes that you have were too long to easily work with

In hindsight, I must agree. The clog was less than 3 feet in.
I desperately wanted to go deeper, but the most I could go was about 10
feet, and nothing came back hooked on the line when I did.

If it gets clogged right away, as soon as the shower starts
draining, the clog is near the drain entrance

Now that you mention it, when I had turned on the water initially,
the drain pipe filled up within about 15 or 20 seconds (I didn't
know enough to look closer at the timing though). In hindsight,
the hair clog was probably at the first trap under the house
(I assume there are traps in the crawl space?).

you have to allow the snake to lay out horizontally across the
floor in a fairly straight line

Ah, I see. Thank you for answering that question. For a brand new
snake, that shouldn't be a problem; but I would think it problematic
for the rusty ones on the white carpet.

I desperately wanted to go deeper

Why?

On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:17:10 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

With the time and money he has spent he could of easily hire someone,
watched and learned more than he could here

You know, I once had to replace a few hundred irrigation sprinkler
heads and I didn't know how to do that.

So I hired a friend who owns a landscaping company, at about $300/day,
with the stipulation that he teach me, and *both* of us replaced almost
two hundred sprinkler heads in addition to repairing the valve electrics.

Most of the sprinkler heads were buried, so, we'd fix one, and another
would pop up out of the mud.

I learned a lot! For instance, there are *many* types of sprinkler heads,
and some are drip, others spray, some adjustable, others set, etc.

So, your suggestion *is* viable.

Yet, another time the pool was a swamp, and I was in line for a
church picnic at my house. I hired another friend, at $60/hour, to
help and teach me. Guess what? I learned almost nothing from that
guy. Dunno why, but, he just replaced stuff, and threw stuff in the
pool and vacuumed stuff, but he had no concept of the delights in
the details. He just wanted to get the job done. That was a waste
of my money.

The problem, of course, would be to find a plumber like the first
guy, and not like the second guy, on short notice.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 20:49:37 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

I desperately wanted to go deeper

Why?

My logic at the time was that I had no idea if there were multiple
clogs. I assumed that if I went the whole 50 feet, that I would
clean out any clogs further down than the one hairball that I had
found.

In the end, I was only able to go about 10 feet.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:

If you go to http://YouTube.com and do a search for "unclog a tub drain" or
something similar, you'll see lots of useful videos on how to do it.

Since it was an emergency, I didn't have the time for anything more than
to fire off the original NNTP request. It turns out, I had to learn on
the job, due to the nature of the emergency.

However, *now* I have time to learn where I erred.

Googling, I find this nice YouTube video that shows how to clean out
a shower drain using the same Cobra drum snake that I have (mine is
branded Brasscraft because Home Depot asked for their own differentiating
brand).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nB1vhQEvJ8

I had always thought that you run the motor continuously; and that
the reverse was for rewinding the cable; but both those assumptions
are wrong.

Apparently the forward position is only used *at* an obstruction;
and the reverse is only used *momentarily* to get out of a bind.

Of course, they don't tell you how to rewind all that 75 foot
of cable *back* into the drum. I called Cobra today and they said
you push the cable forward and rewind it always without the motor
running.

The only time you use the motor is when you can't push or pull
anymore. Then you only use the motor momentarily they said.

So, in this case, even the professional YouTube videos are lacking
in the detail needed to actually perform the job properly. You
only know enough to ask the questions if you've already done the
job itself.

Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:17:10 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

With the time and money he has spent he could of easily
hire someone,
watched and learned more than he could here

You know, I once had to replace a few hundred irrigation
sprinkler
heads and I didn't know how to do that.

So I hired a friend who owns a landscaping company, at
about $300/day,
with the stipulation that he teach me, and *both* of us
replaced
almost two hundred sprinkler heads in addition to
repairing the valve
electrics.

Most of the sprinkler heads were buried, so, we'd fix one,
and another
would pop up out of the mud.

I learned a lot! For instance, there are *many* types of
sprinkler
heads, and some are drip, others spray, some adjustable,
others set,
etc.

So, your suggestion *is* viable.

Good for you and thank you. That is the way to learn, but
are you sure he is/was a friend at $300 a dayg



Yet, another time the pool was a swamp, and I was in line
for a
church picnic at my house. I hired another friend, at
$60/hour, to
help and teach me. Guess what? I learned almost nothing
from that
guy. Dunno why, but, he just replaced stuff, and threw
stuff in the
pool and vacuumed stuff, but he had no concept of the
delights in
the details. He just wanted to get the job done. That was
a waste
of my money.

Not all teachers are *good* teachers
I can tell you the secret to keeping a pool clear is
removing phosphates.
Use PhosFree, PoolPerfect or any commercial available
phosphate remover and your chemical usage will decline.
No phosphates = NO ALGAE = clear water.
I stop putting chemicals in my pool in about October and
just use a remover through the winter and start up in the
spring with clear water


The problem, of course, would be to find a plumber like
the first
guy, and not like the second guy, on short notice.

There are lots of hotshot "drain" cleaning services that do
just that.
Even though I have an electric drain cleaner, a closet snake
and assorted drain clearin stuff, when my kitchen drain
backs up and its cold, rainin and down right ****ty outside,
I'm calling them!!!

On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:17:10 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

Also, I was basing my comment on the number of post he's
made on the many things he doesn't know.

I hope you also noticed that, while I don't know anything
at first, that I research & report back findings on most
topics - and - that I update with lessons learned - and
that I not only *do* the tasks and take *most* of the advice,
but that I also *document* the process, both the good and bad,
via numerous photos.

How many other posters you complain about who are clueless
do all that?

Anyway, now that I have the luxury to research how to clean
a drain, I see a *lot* of mention of chemicals, which I always
deprecated as miracles in a jar - but apparently they must work:

WikiHow: How to Unclog a Slow Shower Drain
http://www.wikihow.com/Unclog-a-Slow-Shower-Drain
Synopsys: Use Dawn dish detergent

eHow: How to Unclog a Shower Drain
http://www.ehow.com/how_2037771_uncl...wer-drain.html
Synopsys: Start with baking soda + vinegar

Lifehacker: How to Unclog a Drain
http://lifehacker.com/5824780/how-to-unclog-a-drain
Synopsys: Start with boiling water

Howtounclogadrain.com: How to Unclog a Shower Drain
http://howtounclogadrain.com/intheho...a_shower_drain
Synopsys: Start with dish soap and hot water

theunclogblog.com: How to Remove Hair thats Clogging Your Shower Drain
http://theunclogblog.com/2012/01/how...wer-drain.html
Synopsys: Use baking soda and vinegar if other methods fail

This guy took "The Drano challenge (or it's free)":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpOkawP0kaM

On May 24, 9:13*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 20:49:37 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
I desperately wanted to go deeper

Why?

My logic at the time was that I had no idea if there were multiple
clogs. I assumed that if I went the whole 50 feet, that I would
clean out any clogs further down than the one hairball that I had
found.

In the end, I was only able to go about 10 feet.


DDD-

Ever hear of Occam's razor? Do you believe in its value?
Or the KISS concept?

When you hear "hoof steps" think horses not zebras.
The simplest effective solution is usually the best.

Most drain clogs (esp showers & sinks) occur at VERY short distances.

On May 25, 1:11*am, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 22:17:10 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
Also, I was basing my comment on the number of post he's
made on the many things he doesn't know.

I hope you also noticed that, while I don't know anything
at first, that I research & report back findings on most
topics - and - that I update with lessons learned - and
that I not only *do* the tasks and take *most* of the advice,
but that I also *document* the process, both the good and bad,
via numerous photos.

How many other posters you complain about who are clueless
do all that?

Anyway, now that I have the luxury to research how to clean
a drain, I see a *lot* of mention of chemicals, which I always
deprecated as miracles in a jar - but apparently they must work:

WikiHow: How to Unclog a Slow Shower Drainhttp://www.wikihow.com/Unclog-a-Slow-Shower-Drain
Synopsys: Use Dawn dish detergent

eHow: How to Unclog a Shower Drainhttp://www.ehow.com/how_2037771_unclog-shower-drain.html
Synopsys: Start with baking soda + vinegar

Lifehacker: How to Unclog a Drainhttp://lifehacker.com/5824780/how-to-unclog-a-drain
Synopsys: Start with boiling water

Howtounclogadrain.com: How to Unclog a Shower Drainhttp://howtounclogadrain.com/inthehome/how_to_unclog_a_shower_drain
Synopsys: Start with dish soap and hot water

theunclogblog.com: How to Remove Hair that’s Clogging Your Shower Drainhttp://theunclogblog.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-hair-thats-clogging-yo...
Synopsys: Use baking soda and vinegar if other methods fail

This guy took "The Drano challenge (or it's free)":
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpOkawP0kaM

I think that following this thread and seeing how much you have
learned should be a lesson for all of us to admit our shortcomings and
learn from those around us who have been there and done that. And for
the "teachers", remember this is a student who wants to learn and be
respectful of that while showing off how much you do know.

wrote:
On May 24, 1:32 pm, Danny D wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 15:34:56 -0400, Retired wrote:
If clog, go to hardware and get the "Drain-O" type kit that has the
red plastic "snake" . It is thin enough to fit without needing to
remove drain plug cover.

Luckily the drain cover popped out with a twist of a screwdriver.

Now that I have my first experience with a shower stall, I must ask
how you're *supposed* to twist the darn 3/8" snake by hand?

They give you a handle which I used like this to get the hair out:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144692.jpg

But, every time I tried to twist that almost-straight handle, *this*
twisting mess is what happened to the cable:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13144691.jpg

May I ask:
How are you supposed to spin that 3/8" cable with that handle
without twisting the rest of the cable into a gory mess?

You only have about 6" of snake between the handle and the drain
opening. You work that 6" down and then move the handle 6" away from
the drain and repeat over and over until things work ok. Patience (and
sometime a half-galon of Draino) always wins.

Yes, I agree. I forgot to add part when I responded earlier. I have found
that when the snake is advancing easily, that's fine. But, when it
encounters a restriction, blockage, or sharp turn in the pipe that it cannot
navigate, I have to keep the handle of the snake no more than about 6 inches
away from the drain and then turn and push on it at the same time. That
keeps the snake from acting like I am pushing on a string (where it just
bends and buckles). The rest of the snake is inside the pipe and that helps
keep it from bending. So, the idea is to only be pushing on about 6 inches
of exposed snake near the drain so that 6 inches is too small for the snake
to bend at that point.

Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 18:28:28 -0400, TomR wrote:

Sometimes, the snake reaches a Tee connection
That makes sense, as the 1/4" snake just wouldn't go further than 10
feet. It bunched up, and that makes sense that it would do that at a
"T".

the snakes that you have were too long to easily work with

In hindsight, I must agree. The clog was less than 3 feet in.
I desperately wanted to go deeper, but the most I could go was about
10 feet, and nothing came back hooked on the line when I did.

If it gets clogged right away, as soon as the shower starts
draining, the clog is near the drain entrance

Now that you mention it, when I had turned on the water initially,
the drain pipe filled up within about 15 or 20 seconds (I didn't
know enough to look closer at the timing though). In hindsight,
the hair clog was probably at the first trap under the house

(I assume there are traps in the crawl space?).

I doubt that there are any additional traps in the drain line for the
shower. Usually, there is one trap near the drain opening and that's it.
The purpose of the trap (which I'm assume you probably already know) is just
to trap some water in the line so the sewer gases cannot come back up
through the drain and stink up the joint. So, all that is needed is one
trap for each drain. After that one trap for each drain, the line should be
continuous, with no additional traps, all the way out to the main sewer line
that goes out to the street or wherever. I think there is usually a trap at
or near the street or curb, probably right after a vent that comes up to the
surface of the ground.

you have to allow the snake to lay out horizontally across the
floor in a fairly straight line

Ah, I see. Thank you for answering that question. For a brand new
snake, that shouldn't be a problem; but I would think it problematic
for the rusty ones on the white carpet.

I guess the only solution for that would be to use tarps or some type of
covering over the carpets etc. But, you're right, it can be a mess. That,
of course, is for the snake you have that does not have a drum where the
snake stays coiled up. I don't have the drum kind (except for those short
hand-operated snakes that come with a drum and a hand crank), so I usually
have to figure out how to deal with the mess.

DD_BobK wrote in news:24a3d9d4-9638-45b4-817c-
:

On May 24, 9:13*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 20:49:37 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
I desperately wanted to go deeper

Why?

My logic at the time was that I had no idea if there were multiple
clogs. I assumed that if I went the whole 50 feet, that I would
clean out any clogs further down than the one hairball that I had
found.

In the end, I was only able to go about 10 feet.


DDD-

Ever hear of Occam's razor?

Made more aware of by the movie "Contact". Sort of a butchered def in the
movie but an awesome flick IMHO.

Do you believe in its value?
Or the KISS concept?

When you hear "hoof steps" think horses not zebras.
The simplest effective solution is usually the best.

Most drain clogs (esp showers & sinks) occur at VERY short distances.

Red Green writes:

DD_BobK wrote in news:24a3d9d4-9638-45b4-817c-
:

On May 24, 9:13Â*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 20:49:37 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
I desperately wanted to go deeper

Why?

My logic at the time was that I had no idea if there were multiple
clogs. I assumed that if I went the whole 50 feet, that I would
clean out any clogs further down than the one hairball that I had
found.

In the end, I was only able to go about 10 feet.


DDD-

Ever hear of Occam's razor?

Made more aware of by the movie "Contact". Sort of a butchered def in the
movie but an awesome flick IMHO.

Movie was okay.

Book was a lot better IMO.

--
Dan Espen