My first composting method was a disaster but this second generation
improved method seems to be working well enough to tell you what
it is and to ask about suggestions for improvement.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12877414.jpg

1. A closeable container sits in the kitchen corner
2. Foodstuffs go into the container instead of in the trash
3. After about a week, we dump the food onto a fenced-in area
4. We chop the food into the soil for about a minute or so
5. This breaks large chunks into small pieces for faster breakdown
6. And it thoroughly 'infects' the foodstuff with soil bacteria
7. After a minute of chopping, the food is barely noticeable
8. Then we shovel a thin layer of soil on top to keep away birds
9. The fence & soil, we found, keeps cyotes & vultures away
10. We spray with water, often daily, to aid bacterial growth
11. We wash the plastic (and sometimes disinfect with chlorine)
12. And the cycle starts anew, with foodstuffs in the kitchen

We've found that we can't even find the food after just a few
weeks, although before we fenced it in, the cyotes, vultures,
or whatever would dig up the chicken bones, fish skins, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions or comments are welcome.

On May 8, 4:18*am, Danny D wrote:
My first composting method was a disaster but this second generation
improved method seems to be working well enough to tell you what
it is and to ask about suggestions for improvement.

*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12877414.jpg

1. A closeable container sits in the kitchen corner
2. Foodstuffs go into the container instead of in the trash
3. After about a week, we dump the food onto a fenced-in area
4. We chop the food into the soil for about a minute or so
5. This breaks large chunks into small pieces for faster breakdown
6. And it thoroughly 'infects' the foodstuff with soil bacteria
7. After a minute of chopping, the food is barely noticeable
8. Then we shovel a thin layer of soil on top to keep away birds
9. The fence & soil, we found, keeps cyotes & vultures away
10. We spray with water, often daily, to aid bacterial growth
11. We wash the plastic (and sometimes disinfect with chlorine)
12. And the cycle starts anew, with foodstuffs in the kitchen

We've found that we can't even find the food after just a few
weeks, although before we fenced it in, the cyotes, vultures,
or whatever would dig up the chicken bones, fish skins, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions or comments are welcome.Ads not by this site

You are a long way behind on the curve.
You can start here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compost

On Wed, 08 May 2013 00:12:43 -0700, harry wrote:

You can start here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compost

Reading that, I seem to be missing the mixing in a barrel.
Also I seem to not be aiming for that 30:1 carbon:nitrogen mix.
None of the composting ideas in that article appeared to be
simply placed in the ground. I wonder why?

I'm certainly no expert on composting, but it seems to me that the soil in Manhattan before the white man came was fertile because the bacteria in the ground digested dead grasses, fallen leaves, and the occasional dead tree. That is, the things that normally grew in that area died and decomposed, thereby providing nutrients in the soil for new growth. And, it was the bacteria and tiny fungii in that soil that did the decomposing. Undoubtedly, it's the same types of bacteria and fungii in that soil today.

I can't help thinking that giving those bacteria and fungii egg shells, fish skins and orange peels to digest is like feeding pizza and beer to a bird. You would undoubtedly have better success with the bacteria in your soil by composting grass clippings, leaves and similar vegetable matter from your kitchen table; like corn cobs for example.

I know that in some of the landfill sites in the world, they use pigs and goats to eliminate the rotting food in the garbage that's discarded. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to feed what you're discarding to a pig or goat and let the bacteria inside it's stomach do the composting for you. Then, it's just a matter of collecting what comes out the other end to use as a fertilizer for your soil.

Depending on where you live, there may be some laws concerning keeping farm animals like this in your yard.

On Wed, 08 May 2013 17:49:34 +0200, nestork wrote:

I can't help thinking that giving those bacteria and fungi egg shells,
fish skins and orange peels to digest is like feeding pizza and beer to
a bird.

Interesting way to say it.

I did read not to put chicken, pork, beef, shells, etc. in the compost,
but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

I understand your analogy - but I wonder if it applies. I mean, what
are eggshells anyway? They're just calcium carbonate, right? Must dissolve
in the soil, right?

And, what are fish skins? They're just scales (keratin?) and slippery
fat. Why wouldn't bacteria love eating that stuff?

Same with orange peels. They fall on the ground all the time from
a wild orange tree, right? They must go somewhere or they would just
pile up until they covered the tree (since they don't blow away
in the wind).

In summary, I have heard these admonitions - but I've never seen a
decent believable explanation of why it would be bad for compost.

one word... pathogens, some say the reason for the human population
explosion is due more to sanitation than anything else.. but that's
like saying what was the most important factor in winning a war.
keep googling, energy cycle, nitrogen cycle, food chain, food cycle..
when you get all done, dig a hole and bury it and run the kitchen water
out in the yard. There is a reason the grass is greener over the
lateral lines of a septic tank system.
a starter,...
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/X9199E/X9199E04.htm

Danny D writes:

On Wed, 08 May 2013 17:49:34 +0200, nestork wrote:

I can't help thinking that giving those bacteria and fungi egg shells,
fish skins and orange peels to digest is like feeding pizza and beer to
a bird.

Interesting way to say it.

I did read not to put chicken, pork, beef, shells, etc. in the compost,
but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

I understand your analogy - but I wonder if it applies. I mean, what
are eggshells anyway? They're just calcium carbonate, right? Must dissolve
in the soil, right?

And, what are fish skins? They're just scales (keratin?) and slippery
fat. Why wouldn't bacteria love eating that stuff?

Same with orange peels. They fall on the ground all the time from
a wild orange tree, right? They must go somewhere or they would just
pile up until they covered the tree (since they don't blow away
in the wind).

In summary, I have heard these admonitions - but I've never seen a
decent believable explanation of why it would be bad for compost.

Do some Google searches. Putting meat into compost isn't really a good
idea. Use Google to understand the issues. I think you're asking for
trouble.

--
Dan Espen

On Wed, 08 May 2013 20:10:27 +0000, Danny D wrote:

I did read not to put chicken, pork, beef, shells, etc. in the compost,
but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Looks like folks who actually did it (like I am doing it), have found
no problems with substances on the "banned" list, according to this
article: http://weblife.org/humanure/chapter3_11.html

VERBATIM:
I get a bit perturbed when I see compost educators telling their students
that there is a long list of things "NOT to be composted!" This
prohibition is always presented in such an authoritative and serious
manner that novice composters begin trembling in their boots at the
thought of composting any of the banned materials. ... Those banned
materials include meat, fish, dairy products, butter, bones, cheese,
lard, mayonnaise, milk, oils, peanut butter, salad dressing, sour cream,
weeds with seeds, diseased plants, citrus peels, rhubarb leaves, crab
grass, pet manures, and, perhaps worst of all: human manure....Luckily, I
was never exposed to such instructions, and my family has composted EVERY
bit of food scrap it has produced, including meat, bones, butter, oils,
fat, lard, citrus peels, mayonnaise, and everything else on the list;
we've done this in our backyard for almost 25 years with never a problem.

Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 08 May 2013 00:12:43 -0700, harry wrote:

You can start here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compost

Reading that, I seem to be missing the mixing in a barrel.
Also I seem to not be aiming for that 30:1 carbon:nitrogen mix.
None of the composting ideas in that article appeared to be
simply placed in the ground. I wonder why?

Probably because they wnat it to get hot enough to kill harmful diseases, bugs,
and weed seeds. That requires some volume and certainly not the heat sinking
effect of the ground.

On 5/8/2013 4:11 AM, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 08 May 2013 00:12:43 -0700, harry wrote:

You can start here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compost

Reading that, I seem to be missing the mixing in a barrel.
Also I seem to not be aiming for that 30:1 carbon:nitrogen mix.
None of the composting ideas in that article appeared to be
simply placed in the ground. I wonder why?


Space and ease of use, most probably. Most ground is already put to
use so there's no free space to incorporate garden/kitchen waste.
Also, adding it to a heap or barrel is less effort than digging it
into the ground, and makes it less available for scavengers.

When I was a kid, our weekly kitchen waste removal chore involved
digging a deepish hole in an open spot in the vegetable garden. Every
evening the day's kitchen scraps got dumped in, followed by a
shovelful of soil. At the end of the week the hole was filled in and a
new hole started. But in those days gardening wasn't as
space-intensive as it is nowadays. You'd be hard pressed to find much
open space in most contemporary gardens.

On Wed, 08 May 2013 11:16:31 -0500, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Space and ease of use, most probably. Most ground is already put to
use so there's no free space to incorporate garden/kitchen waste.
Also, adding it to a heap or barrel is less effort than digging it
into the ground, and makes it less available for scavengers.

Makes sense. Luckily I have plenty of space.

I was adding it to a square 18" high recycling bin prior - but that
bin was too heavy to move after it got full of soil + compost.

Now, I just chop it into the ground; cover with soil; and water it,
and it seems to work (although I have to keep animals away as I had
found all the bones were dug up if I didn't).

Long term, I'll see how well it works over a year's span. I do realize
I'm "breaking the rules" by adding everything (fish, chicken, beef,
pork, bacon fat, eggshells, orange peels, banana peels, lettuce cores,
avocado pits, stale bread and crackers, etc.) from the kitchen.

I never saw a good explanation of why not.

On 5/8/2013 4:14 PM, Alfred Fox wrote:
On Wed, 08 May 2013 11:16:31 -0500, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Space and ease of use, most probably. Most ground is already put to
use so there's no free space to incorporate garden/kitchen waste.
Also, adding it to a heap or barrel is less effort than digging it
into the ground, and makes it less available for scavengers.

Makes sense. Luckily I have plenty of space.

I was adding it to a square 18" high recycling bin prior - but that
bin was too heavy to move after it got full of soil + compost.

Now, I just chop it into the ground; cover with soil; and water it,
and it seems to work (although I have to keep animals away as I had
found all the bones were dug up if I didn't).

Long term, I'll see how well it works over a year's span. I do realize
I'm "breaking the rules" by adding everything (fish, chicken, beef,
pork, bacon fat, eggshells, orange peels, banana peels, lettuce cores,
avocado pits, stale bread and crackers, etc.) from the kitchen.

I never saw a good explanation of why not.


"Attracting rodents" is reason #1, #2 and #3! Not to mention digging
into a pocket of rotten meat if one turns the pile. Link he
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/ID-182.pdf

Someone who likes breeding worms explains how to (carefully) incorporate
meat to a compost:
http://greenliving.nationalgeographi...aste-2320.html

I just set up my new compost pile this morning...new home, doing lots of
landscaping and planting veg. garden....I just melted some holes in a
black plastic tub to keep out by the garden and koi pond. Can dump in
kitchen stuff and algae from the pond if the koi don't eat it )

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 5:11:20 AM UTC-4, Danny D wrote:
Reading that, I seem to be missing the mixing in a barrel.
Also I seem to not be aiming for that 30:1 carbon:nitrogen mix.
None of the composting ideas in that article appeared to be
simply placed in the ground. I wonder why?

Because they are composting. You are simply burying your garbage in the yard, which is probably illegal.

Compost has no actual soil in it. Compost is purely the decomposed organic material.

Once the material is decomposed into compost, it is THEN mixed with the soil as a fertilizer.

On Wed, 8 May 2013 03:18:16 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

My first composting method was a disaster but this second generation
improved method seems to be working well enough to tell you what
it is and to ask about suggestions for improvement.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12877414.jpg

1. A closeable container sits in the kitchen corner
2. Foodstuffs go into the container instead of in the trash
3. After about a week, we dump the food onto a fenced-in area
4. We chop the food into the soil for about a minute or so
5. This breaks large chunks into small pieces for faster breakdown
6. And it thoroughly 'infects' the foodstuff with soil bacteria
7. After a minute of chopping, the food is barely noticeable
8. Then we shovel a thin layer of soil on top to keep away birds
9. The fence & soil, we found, keeps cyotes & vultures away
10. We spray with water, often daily, to aid bacterial growth
11. We wash the plastic (and sometimes disinfect with chlorine)
12. And the cycle starts anew, with foodstuffs in the kitchen

We've found that we can't even find the food after just a few
weeks, although before we fenced it in, the cyotes, vultures,
or whatever would dig up the chicken bones, fish skins, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions or comments are welcome.

I once had a pint or so of spoiled milk, and dumped it on my
compost pile.

Two days later, a neighbor called to tell me that something
aparently had died in my yard, and was stinking up the
place. When I got within a few yards of the pile, I got the
intense urge to vomit. I got a fork and broke open the
pile, and there was a lump, about the size of a beach-ball,
that was highly animated with the squirming of thousands of
maggots. The smell was, well, the smell of death. Even
after spreading it all out to dry, it took more than a week
for the smell to dissipate.

I don't put milk in my compost pile anymore.

--
croy

On Thu, 09 May 2013 10:23:10 -0700, croy wrote:

The smell was, well, the smell of death.
I don't put milk in my compost pile anymore.

I understand. Luckily, I can't even 'see' my neighbor,
let alone smell something from his compost heap.

It's pretty airy here, and the winds are ferocious
(100MPH gusts are normal) coming off the Pacific Ocean,
so, smells aren't going to be a problem for me.

But, it's good advice for those who live within
shouting distance of their neighbors...

On Thu, 9 May 2013 18:20:53 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Thu, 09 May 2013 10:23:10 -0700, croy wrote:

The smell was, well, the smell of death.
I don't put milk in my compost pile anymore.

I understand. Luckily, I can't even 'see' my neighbor,
let alone smell something from his compost heap.

It's pretty airy here, and the winds are ferocious
(100MPH gusts are normal) coming off the Pacific Ocean,
so, smells aren't going to be a problem for me.


True. That trash blows across the desert and lands in Las Vegas.

But, it's good advice for those who live within
shouting distance of their neighbors...

.... fence off Nevada from California - call it a border fence. Tell
'em Oren sent ya!

UPDATE:

I followed your advice, and added the new steps of "turning"
and "aerating" the compost pile.

The turning is done by digging with a shovel to turn the soil;
and the aeration is by chopping with this "chopping tool"
(what is it properly called?).

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12900785.jpg