My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

OP done good.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:57:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

How long can you run a starter like that, with no load, without
draining a car battery?.

What about a 12AH sealed lead acide battery, if you know? (That's
what I have for testing most 12v things.)

OP done good.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:21:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:57:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

How long can you run a starter like that, with no load, without
draining a car battery?.

What about a 12AH sealed lead acide battery, if you know? (That's
what I have for testing most 12v things.)


I have no clue. I've only done it for a bench testing with a car 12v
battery. Short term. Enough to tell me if the starter spins freely and
not drag.

I have run two 12V 150 Watt incandescent bulbs all night on a deep
cycle marine battery while gigging fish (now illegal) dusk to dawn.

Oren wrote:

I was guessing the valves needed adjusting from the symptoms...
All's well that ends well,
Happy mowing.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 19:57:47 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:21:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:57:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

How long can you run a starter like that, with no load, without
draining a car battery?.

What about a 12AH sealed lead acide battery, if you know? (That's
what I have for testing most 12v things.)


I have no clue. I've only done it for a bench testing with a car 12v
battery. Short term. Enough to tell me if the starter spins freely and
not drag.

I have run two 12V 150 Watt incandescent bulbs all night on a deep
cycle marine battery while gigging fish (now illegal) dusk to dawn.

Thanks. I used to keep a full-size car battery for testing indoors,
but now all I have the sealed acid batteries or at most a motorcycle
battery.


This might be the wrong thread but when my spark was advanced too far,
I cracked the case on my starter motor. Twice in a row. Replaced
under the guarantee each time, and the gas station didn't think to
suggest the timing was wrong. I guess they didn't get this problem
very often.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:21:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:57:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

How long can you run a starter like that, with no load, without
draining a car battery?.

Quite a while

What about a 12AH sealed lead acide battery, if you know? (That's
what I have for testing most 12v things.)

A permanent magnet starter - about 5-7 minutes
A little less with a wound field series wound unit if it can handle
the starting surge.
OP done good.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 20:49:18 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:21:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:57:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:11:18 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/25/2013 05:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:25:17 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

My problem was...

"The main problem I have with starting it after not using it is that the
engine cranks erratically. By that I mean that it will turn a couple of
times, stop for a couple of seconds, stop again, etc. (all the while holding
the key on). I then stop for a minute or two to let stuff cool down, then
try again."

The solution was a new starter.

The bushing in the old one didn't *look* bad but when turning the spindle by
hand, you could definitely feel the eccentricity.

Thanks. It was one of the things I mentioned (starter drag).

Bushings can be replaced easily if the armature is not burnt
seriously. The bushings wobble out and become out-of-round.

Thanks for the update.


It could actually be a bent armature shaft as well, which is fairly well
unfixable at (the average) home... I have never seen that happen, but I
suppose it's possible if an engine was started in the past with the
timing too advanced and it kicked back.

But the good news is that for most applications that you're likely to
find, complete rebuilt starters are available - of varying levels of
quality, but still.

nate

I haven't seen a starter with bad bushings for many years. As a teen I
worked in a starter / alternator shop. We would brake them down and do
all the testing with expensive equipment, testing the armature, etc.

As a general rule the bushings would be replaced automatically during
the rebuild. I recall earlier bushings being brass so they wore
faster. Replaced with bronze bushings. Mid-late 1960's.

What made me think of starter drag and bad bushings was the OP
mentioned heat and then after cooling a bit, it would turn over.

As I said before, a bench test is rather easy. Just a battery and
jumper cables. If the starter spins freely without heat building up or
drag I'd move to other things to consider.

How long can you run a starter like that, with no load, without
draining a car battery?.

Quite a while

What about a 12AH sealed lead acide battery, if you know? (That's
what I have for testing most 12v things.)

A permanent magnet starter - about 5-7 minutes
A little less with a wound field series wound unit if it can handle
the starting surge.
OP done good.

Thanks.