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On 12-05-2012 12:56, wrote:
wrote: Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect company data as well. Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. So this is a good trick to distinguish smart employers from most employers. OK by me--I prefer working for a smart employer. -- Wes Groleau Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire! http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...gs/pants-fire/ |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. In Canada it is - the income tax, Canada Pension and health tax with-holding is tied to the SIN. That is ALL it is legally used for |
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In article ,
Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary identification" field. That seems like a violation of security to me. You certainly won't have to worry about it much longer. Now that you have brought it to the attention of all the powerful and politcally well-connected readers of alt.home.repair, I am sure that they will mobilize Congress to quickly act and pass appropriate legislation correcting this gross assault on the financial security of you and your cousin. -- The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. (Winston Churchill) Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. wrote in : On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. In Canada it is - the income tax, Canada Pension and health tax with-holding is tied to the SIN. That is ALL it is legally used for And you need that to *apply* for a job? Wow. Here, it's not needed (for tax purposes, at least) until the employee is actually hired. I think clare did not read with care It's not needed in Canada until AFTER a job is offered and accepted. Then you need it for the very same reasons as in the US. |
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 01:53:51 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote: wrote in : On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. In Canada it is - the income tax, Canada Pension and health tax with-holding is tied to the SIN. That is ALL it is legally used for And you need that to *apply* for a job? Wow. Here, it's not needed (for tax purposes, at least) until the employee is actually hired. Sorry - I didn't respond properly. Not needed to apply - IS needed for tax reasons I THOUGHT it was obvious what I was responding too but obviously it was not - and I can see how it could be read wrong. |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:04:38 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote: "Doug Miller" wrote in message ... wrote in : On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. In Canada it is - the income tax, Canada Pension and health tax with-holding is tied to the SIN. That is ALL it is legally used for And you need that to *apply* for a job? Wow. Here, it's not needed (for tax purposes, at least) until the employee is actually hired. I think clare did not read with care It's not needed in Canada until AFTER a job is offered and accepted. Then you need it for the very same reasons as in the US. Oh, I READ with care - just did not RESPOND with care. It is not needed to APPLY - it IS needed for tax is what I THOUGHT I said. Obviously I didn't make myself clear. |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:31:07 -0600, Doug
wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green" wrote: "Doug" wrote in message On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: stuff snipped Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and accepted. Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an interview, they will supply their SS # upon employment. Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect company data as well. Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. This hasn't been the case where I live. Perhaps it depends on the type of job you apply for ???? Or the company you apply to. I've refused to supply such information very early in the process. I had one recruiter who demanded my personal information before the first phone interviews, after finding my resume on Monster. I don't think so! I never heard from him again. OTOH, I have no problem supplying it on an application. The fact is that the SSN horse has long escaped the barn. |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who have your SSN, isn't this a little silly? |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:
"IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. sheesh! |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 05:12:37 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: I hope you recogize the need to run background checks to avoid hiring someone who is a fugitive? Or hiring a guy convicted of embezlement to be your bookkeeper? Or a night janitor who is a burglar? Now, would you rather find that out before making the job offer, when you can just politely tell them that you filled the position internally. Or would you prefer to wait until you tell them they have the job, then ask for the SS#, then do the check, then have to tell them the specific reason why they are now not getting the job? How about the candidate turns out to be an axe murderer or a member of the Bloods convicted of a drive-by? You want to make that call? I still contend, you don't need that for the initial application. At the time of a second interview you can ask for it and simply state, "we are interested in making you an offer contingent of a background check". How many times recently have you seen where information was stolen and companies have to provide protection for a year after? Do you want to take on that liability just because you have an application for a couple hundred prospective employees that did not make the cut? IMO, that is irresponsible putting your company at risk for no good reason. |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:13:02 -0600, Doug
wrote: Couldn't you "hire subject to" in the offer letter?? Sure, it is done all the time. |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 05:04:16 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Dec 4, 9:30*pm, "Meanie" wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? *It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. *So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. Is that so? So a financial institution, say a bank, doesn't need to make sure the person they are hiring isn't a felon, convicted of theft, embezlement? A medical facility doesn't need to make sure the person they are hiring isn't a violent criminal or murderer? Would you hire someone to work at a hardware store you owned without doing a background check? You'd probably be the first person to sue the hospital if they didn't do a background check and you were then mistreated. My employer did a full background check on me, even though I'd worked for them as a contractor for nine months and the contracting agency had done a background check before they hired me. Anyone hiring someone to a position of trust is going to run a background check on prospective employees, if for no other reason than liability. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I say you run your business and life the way you want to. Let others run their business and lives the way they want to. If someone is so upset by the request for a SSN from a prospective employer, then they can go find a job elsewhere. It's really that simple. Oh, we can't have people actually making choices for themselves, now! |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote:
Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:38:19 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:44:32 -0500, wrote: Around here, a job application with a SSN left blank would just be tossed in the trash. If the application is not completed in its entirety would tell me they are not a team player :-\ You beat me to it. |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 20:32:19 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote: On 12-05-2012 12:56, wrote: wrote: Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect company data as well. Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. So this is a good trick to distinguish smart employers from most employers. OK by me--I prefer working for a smart employer. I wouldn't intentionally limit my employment options by lying to myself about the sanctity of my SSN. |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote: Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double locked for security. Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application for employment. |
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On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote: Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? They have good reason, so they ask. |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote: Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? They have good reason, so they ask. The Stasi had "good reason" for going "Papieren" whenever they felt like it too. That they have good reason (in their minds) does not necessarily make it good reason for you or justify their asking |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote: "IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. sheesh! Your right Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the final offer conditional on the results See how simple that is What some people seem to forget |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote: wrote in : BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons. Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who have your SSN, isn't this a little silly? A lot of information is needed to complete the employment process including personal and professional references. I don't and won't supply those unless and until there is a determination of a skill set and other match for the position. It's unreasonable for an employer to expect that data at the get go. The name of the game is protecting your information. I have had experience where someone else used my data obtained from a contract recruiter to pose as me including signing my name and professional license number to federal documents. |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:15:11 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote: Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? They have good reason, so they ask. The Stasi had "good reason" for going "Papieren" whenever they felt like it too. Silly moral relativity answer, not to mention a Godwin call. That they have good reason (in their minds) does not necessarily make it good reason for you or justify their asking Bull****. Their job. You want it, or not? Your call. |
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On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote: "IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. sheesh! Your right I even took a few English courses in grade school. Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the final offer conditional on the results See how simple that is No, they won't. They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will follow instructions. What some people seem to forget ....that they want a job? You probably have forgotten that. |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote: Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? They have good reason, so they ask. Good reason perhaps but justifiable reason is another matter. Some companies have very specific rules about request for personal identification UNTIL the hiring decision is made. At that time the checking begins. FWIW my contract work especially for clients with a national security issues clients do not ask until the deal is done and then the offer/contract is based on supplying and passing a back ground check. This includes clients I've worked with previously. |
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On 6 Dec 2012 03:49:46 GMT, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote: Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double locked for security. Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application for employment. Wrong, many applications do not even has a space for it these days. http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/09/shou...b-application/ Remember: Until someone is about to hire you, they have no need for your social security number. If they say they need it for a background check, the job offer can be made contingent on a clean report. The BBB suggests that the safest option for job-seeking consumers is this: Never provide your SSN on a job application until you have a verifiable job offer from a company you trust. http://humanresources.about.com/b/20...ity-number.htm I would not provide this information on a job application. Keep in mind, though, that on many job applications, you are signing to provide permission to check references, do background checks, allow criminal record checks, and affirming that everything you have provided on the application is the truth. If you do not supply the social security number on the application, you will likely have to make another trip to the company to fill it in, if the employer wants to offer you a job. With all of the new laws about guarding employee and applicant information security, no client with whom I work, asks for this information until the person is hired any more. No one wants to be responsible for guarding this information for the year that it would be accessible in a file. http://www.shrm.org/TemplatesTools/h...itynumber.aspx An employment application should request only information directly related to an applicant’s ability to perform a specific job. As a general practice, employers should request SSN information only when absolutely necessary, e.g., in conjunction with a background check, completing a W-4, or when enrolling the employee into benefits plans. This information should be requested separate from the employment application, and safeguards should be in place to protect and keep this information confidential. Employers should also implement procedures for safe disposal of this information once an employment decision has been made. Some states require security measures to be in place if applications asking for SSN information are transmitted over the Internet, or sent by mail when not in a sealed envelope. |
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On 12/5/2012 10:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote: Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double locked for security. Exactly, too much potential for litigation. My niece is the HR manager for a ~ 800 employee company and one of her staff spends a good portion of her time keeping up with various regulatory and compliance stuff involved in running the business. |
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On 12/6/2012 5:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 03:49:46 GMT, wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote: Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double locked for security. Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application for employment. Wrong, many applications do not even has a space for it these days. Times change, an employer would be quite clueless to do things the way they used to. http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/09/shou...b-application/ Remember: Until someone is about to hire you, they have no need for your social security number. If they say they need it for a background check, the job offer can be made contingent on a clean report. The BBB suggests that the safest option for job-seeking consumers is this: Never provide your SSN on a job application until you have a verifiable job offer from a company you trust. http://humanresources.about.com/b/20...ity-number.htm I would not provide this information on a job application. Keep in mind, though, that on many job applications, you are signing to provide permission to check references, do background checks, allow criminal record checks, and affirming that everything you have provided on the application is the truth. If you do not supply the social security number on the application, you will likely have to make another trip to the company to fill it in, if the employer wants to offer you a job. With all of the new laws about guarding employee and applicant information security, no client with whom I work, asks for this information until the person is hired any more. No one wants to be responsible for guarding this information for the year that it would be accessible in a file. http://www.shrm.org/TemplatesTools/h...itynumber.aspx An employment application should request only information directly related to an applicant’s ability to perform a specific job. As a general practice, employers should request SSN information only when absolutely necessary, e.g., in conjunction with a background check, completing a W-4, or when enrolling the employee into benefits plans. This information should be requested separate from the employment application, and safeguards should be in place to protect and keep this information confidential. Employers should also implement procedures for safe disposal of this information once an employment decision has been made. Some states require security measures to be in place if applications asking for SSN information are transmitted over the Internet, or sent by mail when not in a sealed envelope. |
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On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, mike wrote:
On 12/4/2012 5:27 PM, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary identification" field. That seems like a violation of security to me. There are lots of privacy issues. Some have argued that federal law prohibits using the SSN for other purposes. But it's a very convenient unique identifier that separates you from that other John Smith. Do you really want his arrest record coming up when they check you out? And they typically ask for your national ID card (used to be a drivers license but became a defacto national ID card). There is no prohibition on that. |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:15:11 -0600, " Attila Iskander" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote: Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN? Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for no good reason? They have good reason, so they ask. The Stasi had "good reason" for going "Papieren" whenever they felt like it too. Silly moral relativity answer, not to mention a Godwin call. So what is the sound of an argument entering in one ear, exiting out the other, and never slowing down in between.. As to your "Godwin call", where did I make any mention of nazis ?? Apparently you're not even up to speed on Godwin.. That they have good reason (in their minds) does not necessarily make it good reason for you or justify their asking Bull****. Their job. You want it, or not? Your call. My experience and expertise, You want it or not ? Your call Unlike you, I was and still am in high enough demand, that It's a sellers' market for me. Hell, I don't even discuss $$$ and benies unless they have clearly stated that here is a job on the table. But then, unlike you, I'm not an easily replaceable drone.. ' |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote: "IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. sheesh! Your right I even took a few English courses in grade school. Oh dear. A spell flame Someone is getting desperate I didn't study Englsih or in English until High School. And I'm willing to bet if it came to a showdown, that I have a larger vocabulary and a beter grasp of grammar and syntax than you. Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the final offer conditional on the results See how simple that is No, they won't. They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will follow instructions. You really should stop making stupid presumptions about others What some people seem to forget ...that they want a job? You probably have forgotten that. Indeed. From age 25 on, I had people calling me to offer me work. Nice when you can get it. Just goes to show that you should avoid making stupid presumptions about others. |
Social Security Number
On Dec 6, 8:46*am, George wrote:
On 12/5/2012 12:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green" wrote: "Doug" wrote in message On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: stuff snipped Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and accepted. Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an interview, they will supply their SS # upon employment. Good idea. *A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect company data as well. Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application in the trash. A big box or megacorp definitely would because they are looking for bodies to meld into their system at the cheapest price. A smart small business might appreciate that the person has a brain.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So then you have to ask yourself. How lucky to you feel today? Is it worth having the prospective employer throw the application in the trash because you didn't supply the SS#? With unemployment at 8% I know what my answer would be. But on the other hand when you can collect unemployment for 2 years, food stamps, free healthcare, I guess that changes the equation. In fact, maybe leaving it off is a good idea. One way to go on those job interviews and make sure you don't get the job. |
Social Security Number
On Dec 5, 2:06*pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 12/5/2012 6:53 AM, wrote: On Dec 5, 8:39 am, Peter wrote: On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote: On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. *She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. *She is between jobs. *One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. *Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How would she get SS credits, otherwise? The OP was only applying for the job, she hadn't been hired yet. *I agree that there's no need for the SSN on the application as long as the employer is satisfied that the applicant is legally in the country How exactly does an employer do that easily without a SSN? and meets the relevant employment criteria. My employment criteria includes not being a fugitive, having outstanding warrants, being convicted of embezlement, etc. * How does an employer do that without a SSN? *Throw away the application from everyone with the same name that comes back with a background check hit? all the job offers i've gotten say: we're offering you this job subject to passing the following checks: background, fingerprint, citizenship, etc.... they can make an offer contingent on things, so they don't have to have the ssn for the application. it just makes it easier (and perhaps cheaper) on them to do the weeding before the checks, rather than after.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Did you see my post where I asked this? You're the hiring guy. Which scenario would you prefer? A guy comes in, fills out the application with his SS#. You use it to run a background check and it turns out he's a member of the Cripts, convicted of multiple drive-bys. You tell him you filled the position internally and thanks for applying. Scenario two. You don't get the SS# until you've extended your contingent job offer. Now you have to call him and tell him he's not getting the job you offered him 2 days ago and why. |
Social Security Number
On Dec 6, 12:44*am, wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander" wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote: "IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? *It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. *So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. *sheesh! Your right I even took a few English courses in grade school. * *Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the final offer conditional on the results See how simple that is No, they won't. *They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will follow instructions. What some people seem to forget ...that they want a job? *You probably have forgotten that.- Hide quoted text - I agree with you on this one. Especially with 8% unemployment and if you want a job. So many places have your SS# anyway and like you say, why would you want to work for an employer that you don't trust with a SS#? As for the argument that it makes no difference to make the offer, then get the SS# and do a background check, how about this: You're the hiring guy. Which scenario would you prefer? A guy fills out the application with his SS#. You use it to run a background check and it turns out he's a member of the Cripts, convicted of drug dealing and multiple drive-bys. You tell him you filled the position internally and thanks for applying. Scenario two. You don't get the SS# until you've extended your job offer, contingent on him supplying the SS#. Now you have to call him and tell him he's not getting the job you offered him 2 days ago and why. |
Social Security Number
wrote in message ... On Dec 5, 2:06 pm, chaniarts wrote: On 12/5/2012 6:53 AM, wrote: On Dec 5, 8:39 am, Peter wrote: On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote: On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How would she get SS credits, otherwise? The OP was only applying for the job, she hadn't been hired yet. I agree that there's no need for the SSN on the application as long as the employer is satisfied that the applicant is legally in the country How exactly does an employer do that easily without a SSN? and meets the relevant employment criteria. My employment criteria includes not being a fugitive, having outstanding warrants, being convicted of embezlement, etc. How does an employer do that without a SSN? Throw away the application from everyone with the same name that comes back with a background check hit? all the job offers i've gotten say: we're offering you this job subject to passing the following checks: background, fingerprint, citizenship, etc.... they can make an offer contingent on things, so they don't have to have the ssn for the application. it just makes it easier (and perhaps cheaper) on them to do the weeding before the checks, rather than after.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - # # Did you see my post where I asked this? You're the # hiring guy. Which scenario would you prefer? A guy # comes in, fills out the application with his SS#. You use it # to run a background check and it turns out he's a member # of the Cripts, convicted of multiple drive-bys. You # tell him you filled the position internally and thanks for # applying. that would depend on the type of job being filled If it's for a warm body with little skill requirement, your argument may hold If it's for expertise that they need badly with few available bodies for the job, your argument fails # # Scenario two. You don't get the SS# until you've # extended your contingent job offer. Now you have to # call him and tell him he's not getting the job you offered # him 2 days ago and why. So you're hiring guy is a lazy chicken ? Is that a good thing in your book ? The hiring guys job is to fill the post with the best choice at the least cost But in some cases "least cost" is NOT "minimum wage" by a long shot. What do you imagine the strategy should be for someone you really want and need to fill a specific post that has few available candidates who are in great demand by the competition ? |
Social Security Number
wrote in message ... On Dec 6, 12:44 am, wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander" wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote: "IGot2P" wrote in message ... On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote: I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to furnish them for a job application. How is a prospective employer supposed to do any kind of background checks without even a SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit, etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique or unreasonable in regard to employment. Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an employer to seek SSN....period. I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was. Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO, to simply move on to the runner up applicant. Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check *after* they hire. sheesh! Your right I even took a few English courses in grade school. Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the final offer conditional on the results See how simple that is No, they won't. They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will follow instructions. What some people seem to forget ...that they want a job? You probably have forgotten that.- Hide quoted text - snip of repetitions You have already asked the question in a slightly different form Are you stupid enough to imagine that repeating it multiple times will somehow make your very limited scenario more right ? Clearly you operate at the warm body level of the hiring scale And clearly that requirement is applicable at that low level Let's hope that you don't get promoted to hire people operating at a higher level You would fail miserably at the job |
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