My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.

First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
out to be a solid steel beam!

Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:

Here is a picture of the relocation:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499510.jpg

Here is a closeup of that relocation:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499496.jpg

Then, I started work on the right end bearing plate.

Amazingly, there isn't any wood ANYWHERE near it.

What I need is a thick (3 or 4 inch wide) steel plate in the
shape of a big "T" - but I could find nothing like it at
Home Depot.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499495.jpg

QUESTION:
Q: Where can I find sheet metal in the shape of a big "T"?

Note: I need a "T" roughly about a foot long by a foot tall
by about 2 inches wide.

With a good quality drill bit
that is slightly smaller in diameter
than the bolts that you want to use,
drill into the steel beam.
Don’t let the drill bit get hot,
dip it in water frequently.
Use a tap and plenty of WD40 to tap threads into the steel.
Be patient and back out the tap frequently to clean it.

Here is the left side of that same garage door.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499553.jpg

Notice a large garage door to the left and the smaller one
with the replaced torsion spring to the right.

Both have air under the top foot of the track!

Do you think it's better to tie the two garage door tracks
together with a strip of metal?

Or should I tie each track separately to the wood 2x4
above it (which is the support for the overhead storage
area)?

On Nov 26, 10:30*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
Here is the left side of that same garage door.
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499553.jpg

Notice a large garage door to the left and the smaller one
with the replaced torsion spring to the right.

Both have air under the top foot of the track!

Do you think it's better to tie the two garage door tracks
together with a strip of metal?

Or should I tie each track separately to the wood 2x4
above it (which is the support for the overhead storage
area)?

Your photos don't make much sense without seeing the larger picture of
what it is you are showing the close-ups.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:42:04 -0800, hr(bob) wrote:

Your photos don't make much sense without seeing the larger
picture of what it is you are showing the close-ups.

OK. I'm always glad to provide detail.

Here's the larger pictu
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499725.jpg

A summary of the problem is that the original builders put
the garage up with NOTHING underneath the top foot of the
vertical tracks. The result is that the end bearing plates
sway when the garage door is opened.

There is also nothing under the spring anchor plate. The
result is that it too sways when the garage door is open.

All I'm trying to do is prevent the end bearing plates and
the spring anchor plate from moving when the door opens.

My plan was to:
a) Move the spring anchor plate over to a cripple stud
b) Add a bearing to the spring anchor plate
c) Secure both the end bearing plates to 'something'

The picture above is the big picture, while the pictures
I posted prior are the closeup pictures of the situation.

On Nov 26, 11:04*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.

First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
out to be a solid steel beam!

Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:

Here is a picture of the relocation:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499510.jpg

Here is a closeup of that relocation:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499496.jpg

Then, I started work on the right end bearing plate.

Amazingly, there isn't any wood ANYWHERE near it.

What I need is a thick (3 or 4 inch wide) steel plate in the
shape of a big "T" - but I could find nothing like it at
Home Depot.
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499495.jpg

QUESTION:
Q: Where can I find sheet metal in the shape of a big "T"?

Note: I need a "T" roughly about a foot long by a foot tall
* * * by about 2 inches wide.

If what you think is there is really there, it would seem some
mighty interesting construction. You say there is a steel
beam near the center of the door. If that's true, what is it
doing? The only logical thing would be that it runs across
the door opening. Yet you say to the right of it, there is no
steel, just air.....

Also don't know what kind of sheet metal is a foot by a foot
by 2". Sounds like what you want is some plate steel that
is 3/16" or so thick to me. Have you used a stud locater to
mark out what is solid in the wall?
the middle of the door. That would seem to

On 11/26/2012 10:04 PM, Danny D. wrote:
My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.

First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
out to be a solid steel beam!

Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:
....

As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
need it and be done w/ it.

--

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:05:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
need it and be done w/ it.

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all
the angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.

He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side
and at the center.

On 11/27/2012 11:41 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:05:28 -0600, wrote:

As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
need it and be done w/ it.

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all
the angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.
....

Because he doesn't know what he's doing and is impervious to advice
apparently.

Pretty typical novice diy'er or homeowner symptom ime--for some reason
there's an unreasonable fear of opening a wall.

To OP...there's nothing to fear; just open it up so you can get where
you need to be and do what needs to be done. Putting up some sheetrock
or other wall surface later is trivial. If you do it cleanly, you can
probably even salvage the existing but it's cheap; I'd just take it out
and go on.

--

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:45:31 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/27/2012 11:41 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:05:28 -0600, wrote:

As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
need it and be done w/ it.

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all
the angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.
...

Because he doesn't know what he's doing and is impervious to advice
apparently.

Pretty typical novice diy'er or homeowner symptom ime--for some reason
there's an unreasonable fear of opening a wall.

To OP...there's nothing to fear; just open it up so you can get where
you need to be and do what needs to be done. Putting up some sheetrock
or other wall surface later is trivial. If you do it cleanly, you can
probably even salvage the existing but it's cheap; I'd just take it out
and go on.

He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock. Like this and install
the cripple studs.

Mine:

Double door

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=21m4syf&s=6

Single door

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=70upf9&s=6

On 11/27/2012 12:19 PM, Oren wrote:
....

He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock. Like this and install
the cripple studs.
....

One cut is pretty much the same as another...

What he's got to do is to get enough of an access where he needs the
support to find out what's behind there he can attach to (and then do it).

So far he's just made a mess and a bunch of little and not so little
holes and has nothing to show for it. My best estimation is he'll
continue that way until he does something different.

I don't give a rat's patootie how big a hole it is or isn't, just that
he do something besides whine here about how his efforts to avoid doing
what is really a trivial job when he's been given the direction he needs
aren't working...

I'd just as soon patch the whole piece as several smaller, but that's
immaterial to actually accomplishing the end objective.

--

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:19:53 -0800, Oren wrote:

He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock.
Like this and install the cripple studs.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=21m4syf&s=6

I saw that one before and admired it because it's
external to the sheetrock - and - it's clear what
it is.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:45:31 -0600, dpb wrote:

Because he doesn't know what he's doing

Exactly!

there's a ... fear of opening a wall.

Exactly!

On 11/27/2012 2:19 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:45:31 -0600, dpb wrote:

Because he doesn't know what he's doing

Exactly!

there's a ... fear of opening a wall.

Exactly!

If you're not going to go at it and fix it, then just hire somebody who
will.

There ain't nothing to hurt; you've made more mess to clean up already
than a few joints will be, and it's just a garage unfinished wall, anyway.

--

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0800, Oren wrote:

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all the
angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.

He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side and
at the center.

I've never done structural work in my life.
I've never ripped off wallboard - nor have I ever repaired the results.

Yet, I have made a project worse (and worse and worse) in my life
by taking apart too much - and never putting it back together.

In short ... I don't really want to rip off all the wallboard
because I'm afraid I'll never put it back and there will be an
unsightly hole in my garage for years.

Of course, I had never replaced a torsion spring before either ...

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 20:18:48 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0800, Oren wrote:

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all the
angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.

He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side and
at the center.

I've never done structural work in my life.

You're the Accountant, right?

I've never ripped off wallboard - nor have I ever repaired the results.

Okay. That is another project, but not difficult at all. Anything
would look better than what is there now or you can leave it off.

Yet, I have made a project worse (and worse and worse) in my life
by taking apart too much - and never putting it back together.


Don't do that.

In short ... I don't really want to rip off all the wallboard
because I'm afraid I'll never put it back and there will be an
unsightly hole in my garage for years.


There has to be block back there as is the steel beam. What hole?

Of course, I had never replaced a torsion spring before either ...


You still haven't fixed the dang thing. Until the mounts are secured
you will have future problems.

As granddaddy used to say - "**** or get off the pot"

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:43:43 -0800, Oren wrote:

You're the Accountant, right?

How did you know?

On 11/26/2012 10:04 PM, Danny D. wrote:
My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.

First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
out to be a solid steel beam!

Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:

Here is a picture of the relocation:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499510.jpg

Here is a closeup of that relocation:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499496.jpg

Then, I started work on the right end bearing plate.

Amazingly, there isn't any wood ANYWHERE near it.

What I need is a thick (3 or 4 inch wide) steel plate in the
shape of a big "T" - but I could find nothing like it at
Home Depot.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11499495.jpg

QUESTION:
Q: Where can I find sheet metal in the shape of a big "T"?

Note: I need a "T" roughly about a foot long by a foot tall
by about 2 inches wide.


Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you
want to attach. Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten
it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the
bottom of the I beam.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:18:34 -0600, DanG wrote:

Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you
want to attach. Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten
it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the
bottom of the I beam.

Effectively, that's what I did since there were absolutely no
substantial studs anywhere near the garage door track upper ends.

Only I used a metal plate instead of the plywood.

The hardest part was measuring accurately because the ceiling sloped
and the bearing end plate flag supports had been previously bent inward.

On Dec 3, 11:33*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:18:34 -0600, DanG wrote:
Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you
want to attach. *Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten
it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the
bottom of the I beam.

Effectively, that's what I did since there were absolutely no
substantial studs anywhere near the garage door track upper ends.

Only I used a metal plate instead of the plywood.

The hardest part was measuring accurately because the ceiling sloped
and the bearing end plate flag supports had been previously bent inward.

Dear DADD-

How think was your "metal plate"?

Puzzler:

If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4"
plywood.

Stick to the 10-key and stay away from the power tools.

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:16:37 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:
How thin was your "metal plate"?
If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4" plywood.

Agreed that the metal plate is (much) thinner than the plywood.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11639622.jpg

But there was no room for 3/4" plywood under the flags at the top of the
vertical tracks either.

The good news is that the steel plate, now bolted with four 5/8" nuts at
the top and secured with screws at the bottom appears to be working just
fine.

This is a summary of the repair:
1. The torsion spring was upgraded from 0.243" to 0.250" wire gauge.
2. The newer longer spring was relocated to the right by a foot.
3. The spring anchor plate was securely bolted to the angle iron.
4. The angle iron could only be lag screwed at the very top & bottom!
5. A steel bearing was added to the spring anchor plate.
6. The left track flag was bolted to the overhead storage area supports.
7. The right track flag was securely bolted to a steel plate bolted by
four 5/8" steel studs at the top and wood screws at the bottom.
8. Everything but the tracks were lubricated, including hinges, rollers,
the GDO chain, and the non-galvanized torsion spring.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:38:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:16:37 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:
How thin was your "metal plate"?
If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4" plywood.

Agreed that the metal plate is (much) thinner than the plywood.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11639622.jpg

But there was no room for 3/4" plywood under the flags at the top of the
vertical tracks either.

I wonder if cutting out the drywall would have given you the space
needed? (GRIN)

On Dec 7, 12:38*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:16:37 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:
How thin was your "metal plate"?
If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4" plywood.

Agreed that the metal plate is (much) thinner than the plywood.
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11639622.jpg

But there was no room for 3/4" plywood under the flags at the top of the
vertical tracks either.

The good news is that the steel plate, now bolted with four 5/8" nuts at
the top and secured with screws at the bottom appears to be working just
fine.

This is a summary of the repair:
1. The torsion spring was upgraded from 0.243" to 0.250" wire gauge.
2. The newer longer spring was relocated to the right by a foot.
3. The spring anchor plate was securely bolted to the angle iron.
4. The angle iron could only be lag screwed at the very top & bottom!
5. A steel bearing was added to the spring anchor plate.
6. The left track flag was bolted to the overhead storage area supports.
7. The right track flag was securely bolted to a steel plate bolted by
four 5/8" steel studs at the top and wood screws at the bottom.
8. Everything but the tracks were lubricated, including hinges, rollers,
the GDO chain, and the non-galvanized torsion spring.

DADD-

You never offered the thickness of the "metal plate".

From my examination your photos....there are no angle iron & no metal
plates involved in your "repair".

If its less than ~1/8" it ain't "angle iron"..... it's merely sheet
metal angle.... notice how easily it bends?