Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ly-foreclosed/

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your
possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.”

All the married couple has now are three generations of memories.

Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a
teenager.

“I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he
said.

Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert
oasis.

“My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same
color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin.

A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the
couple.

“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family
suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said
Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to
resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.”

Alvin and Pat remain distraught.

“When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just
glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin.

On Sep 7, 3:52*am, Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ossessions-aft...

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — *The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your
possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.”

All the married couple has now are three generations of memories.

Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a
teenager.

“I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he
said.

Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert
oasis.

“My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same
color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin.

A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the
couple.

“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family
suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said
Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to
resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.”

Alvin and Pat remain distraught.

“When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just
glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin.

America is OK if you're rich.
Everyone else is just a serf. To be robbed by the rich.

In article , Wells Fargo wrote:

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

So, there's no connection between the robbers and the victims, just like
any other home robbery. If the robbers had not been able to hide behind
the corporate veil they would have been arrested, charged, and possibly
eventually spend a little time in prison. It's good to be The
Corporation.

m

Here's another one:

Woman Tries To Sell Home,
Finds Out Bank Mistakenly Foreclosed It

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...foreclosed-it/

Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ly-foreclosed/

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) - The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.


Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because
of a single slip-up...

On 9/7/2012 5:25 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ly-foreclosed/

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) - The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.


Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because
of a single slip-up...


The population of The U.S. is now around 315 million and if .1% screw up
and do something stupid, our cousins in "smaller" countries seem to
believe all Americans are screw-ups. I imagine their concept of scale
is a bit distorted not to mention they're quite judgmental. O_o

TDD

On 9/6/2012 9:52 PM, Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ly-foreclosed/

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your
possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.”

All the married couple has now are three generations of memories.

Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a
teenager.

“I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he
said.

Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert
oasis.

“My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same
color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin.

A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the
couple.

“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family
suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said
Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to
resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.”

Alvin and Pat remain distraught.

“When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just
glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin.


That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a
great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property
was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o

TDD

Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.
Hi,
When you say it's Does it mean "It is" or "It was"?
So it depends.

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:52:01 PM UTC-4, Wells Fargo wrote:
A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

So, they've lost their home and all their possessions PERMANENTLY because the bank made a mistake?

In this day and age? After the bad press?

The bank should be giving them their house back, getting as much of their stuff back as is humanly possible, and compensating them handsomely for their inconvenience. Sure, it won't replace things like pictures and knicknacks and keepsakes. It won't erase the fact that the family has been violated. It will, however, take a lot of the "edge" off.

I suspect all the teary-eyed statements from the homeowners are on the advice of their lawyer. He'll be going for the jugular.

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:52:01 PM UTC-4, Wells Fargo wrote:
A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas' desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn't have a mortgage on the home.

So, they've lost their home and all their possessions PERMANENTLY because
the bank made a mistake?

In this day and age? After the bad press?

The bank should be giving them their house back, getting as much of their
stuff back as is humanly possible, and compensating them handsomely for
their inconvenience. Sure, it won't replace things like pictures and
knicknacks and keepsakes. It won't erase the fact that the family has been
violated. It will, however, take a lot of the "edge" off.

I suspect all the teary-eyed statements from the homeowners are on the
advice of their lawyer. He'll be going for the jugular.

Agreed..

On Friday, September 7, 2012 10:02:37 AM UTC-4, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 9/6/2012 9:52 PM, Wells Fargo wrote: Yup. Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap. What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves. Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become. ========================= http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ly-foreclosed/ TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — The owners of a modest home near Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank mistakenly foreclosed their residence. A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure. The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home. Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.” All the married couple has now are three generations of memories. Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a teenager. “I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he said. Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert oasis. “My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin. A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the couple. “We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.” Alvin and Pat remain distraught. “When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin. That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o TDD

Sounds like a Homey Numb Nuts post.
Of course in the US these folks will sue the bank and get at least 10 times the worth of what they lost plus.

In article , Wells Fargo wrote:

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

just like you terrorists to see this as a negative. I don't understand why they
can't retrieve their possessions and the loss is troubling, but after they get
done reaching a settlement with Wells Fargo, not only will they once again be
back in their home (it could never be sold to anyone else legally) they will
become what amounts to a very strong minority owner of the bank

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 22:29:29 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Sep 7, 3:52*am, Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ossessions-aft...

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — *The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your
possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.”

All the married couple has now are three generations of memories.

Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a
teenager.

“I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he
said.

Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert
oasis.

“My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same
color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin.

A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the
couple.

“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family
suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said
Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to
resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.”

Alvin and Pat remain distraught.

“When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just
glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin.

America is OK if you're rich.
Everyone else is just a serf. To be robbed by the rich.

If everyone's a serf in the US, Europe must be a real ********.

http://townhall.com/columnists/nealb...ng_poor/page/2

The Daring Dufas used improper usenet message composition style by
unnecessarily full-quoting:

That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a
great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property
was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o

What a maroon you are if you believe that.

Your US Banksters probably have a law on the books protecting them
against being prosecuted for this sort of theivery (they certainly do
for other types of theivery they perform on you serfs on a daily basis).

Frank wrote:

(...)

Hey numb nuts.

You should see how the abortion of a quote-job you posted looks like on
a real news reader.

How on earth did you botch this?

You're on that "nothing says I'm a dork more than" google gropes. How
did you manage to mangle your stupid-ass full-quoting job on google
gropes?

Of course in the US these folks will sue the bank and get at least
10 times the worth of what they lost plus.

You believe that if it makes you sleep better at night.

The reality is this is a bank we're talking about. Tons of money behind
them, as well as years of lobbying for all sorts of laws in their favor
that you had no idea existed.

The bank will give the home owners a new toaster and a kick in the ass.
And that's if the home owners are lucky.

On 9/7/2012 7:39 PM, Wells Fargo wrote:
The Daring Dufas used improper usenet message composition style by
unnecessarily full-quoting:

That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a
great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property
was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o

What a maroon you are if you believe that.

Your US Banksters probably have a law on the books protecting them
against being prosecuted for this sort of theivery (they certainly do
for other types of theivery they perform on you serfs on a daily basis).


Absolutely not you moron, the people working for the bank broke more
than one law. It's a given that there will be civil prosecution but
I'm not a lawyer or legal expert so I've no idea what criminal sanctions
can be pursued and against whom. There is a little thing called "intent"
and it may turn out that the bank employee responsible for the cluster
coitus is just an incompetent pile of excreta. I can't comment on the
variety of human responsible but with corporations having to deal with
Politically Correct hiring practices and promotions, the idiot bank
employee was more than likely hired after HR rejected someone with a
much higher IQ. O_o

TDD

In Wells Fargo wrote:

Your US Banksters probably have a law on the books

Probably? Why don't you look into that and get back to us with what you
find.

--
St. Paul, MN

On Sep 6, 7:52*pm, Wells Fargo wrote:
Yup.

Just give me more of that "It's good to be an American" crap.

What a ****ed up country you've created for yourselves.

Read the following and be ashamed for what you've become.

=========================

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...ossessions-aft...

TWENTYNINE PALMS (CBSLA.com) — *The owners of a modest home near
Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank
mistakenly foreclosed their residence.

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your
possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.”

All the married couple has now are three generations of memories.

Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a
teenager.

“I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he
said.

Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert
oasis.

“My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same
color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin.

A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the
couple.

“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family
suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said
Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to
resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.”

Alvin and Pat remain distraught.

“When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just
glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin.

Yeah... And Wells Fargo have been kissing up to the Chinese courting
them to open bank accounts with Wells Fargo. WF have been putting up
giant ads on billboards in many parts of the US where the Chinese are
concentrated. Take a look at this blog: http://doubletwenty.wordpress.com/

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 9/7/2012 7:39 PM, Wells Fargo wrote:
The Daring Dufas used improper usenet message composition style by
unnecessarily full-quoting:

That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a
great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property
was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o

What a maroon you are if you believe that.

Your US Banksters probably have a law on the books protecting them
against being prosecuted for this sort of theivery (they certainly do
for other types of theivery they perform on you serfs on a daily basis).


Absolutely not you moron, the people working for the bank broke more
than one law. It's a given that there will be civil prosecution but
I'm not a lawyer or legal expert so I've no idea what criminal sanctions
can be pursued and against whom. There is a little thing called "intent"
and it may turn out that the bank employee responsible for the cluster
coitus is just an incompetent pile of excreta. I can't comment on the
variety of human responsible but with corporations having to deal with
Politically Correct hiring practices and promotions, the idiot bank
employee was more than likely hired after HR rejected someone with a
much higher IQ. O_o

TDD

yes because any excuse for breaking the law is more easily put on those poor
innocent sods who were hired for political purposes...that being the only reason
they are hired and promoted

On 9/9/2012 11:48 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 9/7/2012 7:39 PM, Wells Fargo wrote:
The Daring Dufas used improper usenet message composition style by
unnecessarily full-quoting:

That little mistake by Wells Fargo Bank is going to cost the bank a
great deal of money. In another country, the couple who's property
was stolen might not be compensated very much if at all. O_o

What a maroon you are if you believe that.

Your US Banksters probably have a law on the books protecting them
against being prosecuted for this sort of theivery (they certainly do
for other types of theivery they perform on you serfs on a daily basis).


Absolutely not you moron, the people working for the bank broke more
than one law. It's a given that there will be civil prosecution but
I'm not a lawyer or legal expert so I've no idea what criminal sanctions
can be pursued and against whom. There is a little thing called "intent"
and it may turn out that the bank employee responsible for the cluster
coitus is just an incompetent pile of excreta. I can't comment on the
variety of human responsible but with corporations having to deal with
Politically Correct hiring practices and promotions, the idiot bank
employee was more than likely hired after HR rejected someone with a
much higher IQ. O_o

TDD

yes because any excuse for breaking the law is more easily put on those poor
innocent sods who were hired for political purposes...that being the only reason
they are hired and promoted


Affirmative Action is responsible for more damage to government and
business than anything else. You put the dumbest assholes in charge and
you get the expected results. The best example of all is our first and
last Affirmative Action President and administration. It pains me to
think of how long it will take to repair the damage cause by those
morons. O_o

TDD

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

Absolutely not you moron, the people working for the bank broke more
than one law. It's a given that there will be civil prosecution but
I'm not a lawyer or legal expert so I've no idea what criminal sanctions
can be pursued and against whom. There is a little thing called "intent"
and it may turn out that the bank employee responsible for the cluster
coitus is just an incompetent pile of excreta. I can't comment on the
variety of human responsible but with corporations having to deal with
Politically Correct hiring practices and promotions, the idiot bank
employee was more than likely hired after HR rejected someone with a
much higher IQ. O_o

TDD

yes because any excuse for breaking the law is more easily put on those
poor
innocent sods who were hired for political purposes...that being the only
reason
they are hired and promoted


Affirmative Action is responsible for more damage to government and
business than anything else.

and all this time I thought it was the taxes.



You put the dumbest assholes in charge and
you get the expected results.

so you are saying bank presidents/ceo's are there because of affirmative action?


The best example of all is our first and
last Affirmative Action President and administration. It pains me to
think of how long it will take to repair the damage cause by those
morons. O_o

TDD

Oh don't sell romney so short

On 07 Sep 2012 05:42:11 GMT, (Fake ID) wrote:

In article , Wells Fargo wrote:

A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything
after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.

The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home.

So, there's no connection between the robbers and the victims, just like
any other home robbery. If the robbers had not been able to hide behind
the corporate veil they would have been arrested, charged, and possibly
eventually spend a little time in prison. It's good to be The
Corporation.

m

that is exactly why I cannot understand how the Supreme Court could
decide the "corporations are people". I've never seen a corporation
get put in jail for things they do that are far worse then what
individuals do who are sentenced to jail (put out of business) every
day of the week.

In article ,
Ashton Crusher wrote:

that is exactly why I cannot understand how the Supreme Court could
decide the "corporations are people". I've never seen a corporation
get put in jail for things they do that are far worse then what
individuals do who are sentenced to jail (put out of business) every
day of the week.

Corp legal personhood goes back all the way to the start of the US..
and even back to Jolly Old England. Corps get sued all the time for
various things. That is only because of corporate legal person hood. The
ONLY reason the New York Times gets first amendment protection is
because of the idea corporate personhood. Executives have gone to jail
for their actions as corporate officers and directors (Adelphia Cable
for instance). Corporations have been fined for breaking laws. That is
only possible because of the idea of corporate personhood.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald Reagan
realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of their income into
the system than the middle class does, or else the system runs out of money.

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA

In article ,
"David Kaye" wrote:

The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America.



According to Richard Wolff, in this interview from The Sun:


http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues...s_discontents?
page=1




"Warren Buffett is the first well-known member of the wealthy class to
face reality. He did a survey of the twenty-odd people who work in his
office ‹ secretaries, clerks, and assistants ‹ and found that he pays a
lower tax rate than any of them, even though he¹s the richest person
there. The hidden message in his statement is that the have-nots are
going to get angry about this one day, and his fellow members of the
rich class would be smart to take steps to deal with it rather than wait
for that anger to grow and overtake them.

It¹s not just wealthy individuals. Corporations also pay taxes at very
low rates. If you go back to the end of World War II, for every dollar
that Washington got from American taxpayers, it got $1.50 from
corporations. In other words, taxes on corporate profits brought 50
percent more money to Washington than taxes on individuals. In 2011, for
every dollar that the federal government gets in revenue from
individuals, it gets twenty-five cents from corporations. Corporations
have lobbied successfully to shift the tax burden from themselves to
wage earners. That¹s class warfare.

Now let¹s look at the history of the individual income tax. In the 1950s
and 1960s the top income-tax bracket for an individual was 91 percent.
That means that for every dollar an individual earned over a certain
amount ‹ let¹s just say one hundred thousand dollars ‹ he or she had to
give Uncle Sam ninety-one cents. Even in the 1970s it was still 70
percent. What is the tax rate for the richest Americans today?
Thirty-five percent. Think of it: the tax rate for the richest Americans
went from 91 percent down to 35 percent. Now, that¹s a tax cut the likes
of which has never been enjoyed by the vast majority of Americans.
So over the last forty or fifty years, the tax burden has shifted away
from corporations and the richest individuals and onto the rest of us.
Keep that in mind when you¹re angry at the government about taxes."


End quote.

I recommend this whole article. It's an interesting view of what went
wrong with our little experiment.

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:14:27 -0700, "David Kaye"
wrote:

"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald Reagan
realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of their income into
the system than the middle class does, or else the system runs out of money.

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA


Actually what is " ruining America" is politicians in Washington. Like
Nancy Pelosi when she stated they were "ready to govern".

Politicians have forgot they are elected to represent the people, not
"govern" the people.

Spit!

In article ,
"David Kaye" wrote:

"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald Reagan
realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of their income into
the system than the middle class does, or else the system runs out of money.

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA

ANd that is happening. IRS and CBO figures that the top 1% pay twice the
%age of taxes (34.3%) as they get in income (16.8%).
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

"Warren Buffett is the first well-known member of the wealthy class to
face reality. He did a survey of the twenty-odd people who work in his
office ‹ secretaries, clerks, and assistants ‹ and found that he pays a
lower tax rate than any of them, even though he¹s the richest person
there. The hidden message in his statement is that the have-nots are
going to get angry about this one day, and his fellow members of the
rich class would be smart to take steps to deal with it rather than wait
for that anger to grow and overtake them.
The hidden message is that if you own the company you can tailor you pay
in ways 99% of even the most wealthy can't. The other problem I had with
old WB is that he allegedly had a couple people more than the highest
marginal rate, which is impossible.



It¹s not just wealthy individuals. Corporations also pay taxes at very
low rates. If you go back to the end of World War II, for every dollar
that Washington got from American taxpayers, it got $1.50 from
corporations. In other words, taxes on corporate profits brought 50
percent more money to Washington than taxes on individuals. In 2011, for
every dollar that the federal government gets in revenue from
individuals, it gets twenty-five cents from corporations. Corporations
have lobbied successfully to shift the tax burden from themselves to
wage earners. That¹s class warfare.

That's idiocy since the corps don't pay the taxes. Corps can either
eat the taxes (which lowers shareholder value), pass them along through
increases in prices (paid for by the customers), or lower expenses such
as laying people off (or more likely not hiring them in the first
place).


Now let¹s look at the history of the individual income tax. In the 1950s
and 1960s the top income-tax bracket for an individual was 91 percent.
That means that for every dollar an individual earned over a certain
amount ‹ let¹s just say one hundred thousand dollars ‹ he or she had to
give Uncle Sam ninety-one cents. Even in the 1970s it was still 70
percent. What is the tax rate for the richest Americans today?
Thirty-five percent. Think of it: the tax rate for the richest Americans
went from 91 percent down to 35 percent. Now, that¹s a tax cut the likes
of which has never been enjoyed by the vast majority of Americans.
So over the last forty or fifty years, the tax burden has shifted away
from corporations and the richest individuals and onto the rest of us.
Keep that in mind when you¹re angry at the government about taxes."

Nonsense. The IRS figures show that the total effective income tax
rate (including income, SS, and excise taxes) has fallen for everyone.
The lowest quintile's effective income tax rate has been cut nearly in
half from 79 to present (8.0 to 4.5). The highest quintile's has gone
down much less from 27.5 to 25.1 and the one percenters from 37% to 31.%
(about 20%).
Looking at just income taxes, the lowest quintile went from 0.0 to
NEGATIVE 6.2% rate (they are getting more back in credits than they pay
in taxes. The next lowest quintile went from 4.1% effective rate to a
-0.8%.. this BTW is entirely related to Bush tax cuts and what it did to
both brackets and eligibility for earned income and child tax credits.
If you don't cherrypick your top 1%, they as whole pay effective income
tax rates of 20%, compared to the above. The fall in rate from 79 to
present was from 21.8 to 19.8%.
BTW: Two big cuts took place under JFK and Clinton. Were those also
suspect or not?
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

David Kaye wrote:
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald
Reagan realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of
their income into the system than the middle class does, or else the
system runs out of money.

The United States has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world,
40%*. Compare this to, say, Ireland where the corporate tax rate is 12.5%.
http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/whatwe...tes-table.aspx

--------
* United Arab Emirates has a corporate tax rate of 55%.

HeyBub wrote:

The United States has the second highest corporate tax rate in the
world, 40%*.

============
What is the Accumulated Earnings Tax Rate?

The IRS imposes an additional "accumulated earnings" tax of 15 percent
on retained earnings of a corporation that accumulates above $250,000.
The IRS has established a limit of acceptable retained earning of
$150,000 for certain "personal service corporations" (i.e., corporations
in the fields of health, law, engineering, architecture, accounting,
actuarial science, performing arts or consulting, where the owners
provide the services). As discussed above, this tax is only applicable
to 'C' Corporations.

What is the purpose of this Accumulated Earnings Tax?
This tax is designed to penalise corporations from accumulating retained
earnings just to avoid paying taxable dividends from being taxed again.
For US publicly traded companies, the dividend distribution is kept at a
minimum to acheive a higher share price for its shareholders.

http://www.asktaxguru.com/362-what-a...icable-my.html
============

Now when it comes to the big US corporations, I don't know if they are
"C" Corporations.

But if they are, then how is it that we hear that many corporations are
sitting on piles of cash during this recession, if this cash is subject
to an additional 15% tax (presumably levied every year on the same cash
stockpile?)

Why aren't shareholders outraged that the corporations that they own are
paying this 15% tax on retained earnings - instead of paying retained
earnings out to the shareholders?

How much revenue does the US gov't get from this 15% tax anyways?

In article , "David Kaye"
wrote:

"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald Reagan
realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of their income into
the system than the middle class does, or else the system runs out of money.

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA

oh the richicans aren't going to allow something like facts to get in the way of
a good rant

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"David Kaye" wrote:

"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote


and all this time I thought it was the taxes.

Nope. The USA is one of the least taxed countries of the world. It's
actually the LACK of taxes that is ruining America. Even Ronald Reagan
realized that the rich have to pay a higher percentage of their income into
the system than the middle class does, or else the system runs out of money.

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA

ANd that is happening. IRS and CBO figures that the top 1% pay twice the
%age of taxes (34.3%) as they get in income (16.8%).

which makes absolute sense since most of the 1% don't earn income but collect
unearned income from investments, which is why romney only paid about 15% on his
public tax returns

In article ,
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote:



ANd that is happening. IRS and CBO figures that the top 1% pay twice the
%age of taxes (34.3%) as they get in income (16.8%).

which makes absolute sense since most of the 1% don't earn income but collect
unearned income from investments, which is why romney only paid about 15% on
his
public tax returns

Did you even read this? It says they pay MUCH more in taxes (as a
percentage of the entire pie) than they make in income (as a percentage
of that total pie.
Also, the effective tax rate for the top 1% (of income from CBO
figures) 19.6% while the effective rate for the bottom quintile is a
NEGATIVE 6.2%, which means they get more in credits than they paid in
taxes. The rate for average (ie non-cherrypicked) 1%ers is 25% more than
that paid by the bottom quintile.


BTW: The negative taxes remains (albeit barely) when SS is added back.
Total fed taxes (including SS, income, and excise taxes are 31.1 and
4.5% respectively.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:23:44 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

Here's an actual clip of what Reagan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA

oh the richicans aren't going to allow something like facts to get in the way of
a good rant

What are "richicans"?

You do know Reagan was once a Democrat, before he smartened up?! At a
late moment, Abraham Lincoln decided to run as a Republican.

What a great nation we have. Now, if only, we could get Cherokees to
accept $20 bills of Andrew Jackson's likeness.

--
put a cork on your fork so you don't poke your eye out

On Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:35:24 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

which makes absolute sense since most of the 1% don't earn income but collect
unearned income from investments, which is why romney only paid about 15% on his
public tax returns

And GE paid nothing one year. There is a fix for that.*

Mitt Romney gave away his inheritance from his father. Went to work.
He moved to Salt Lake City, worked for 3 years with no pay saving the
corrupted Olympics. There is another job he worked without pay but I
forget at the moment. What is wrong with living on investments?

* Lower the tax rate on GE. Then fire 700 tax lawyers on the payroll.
Then pay the tax GE owes.

BULL S...
U.S. corporations pay incredibly low taxes
due to the loopholes, credits,
and deductions in the tax code
and the use of overseas tax havens.
You should compare how much tax is
collected per capita. Big corporations
in the US have you and everybody else
by the cajones; you're just too stupid
to see it.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

BULL S...
U.S. corporations pay incredibly low taxes
due to the loopholes, credits,
and deductions in the tax code
and the use of overseas tax havens.

Citation required.

You should compare how much tax is
collected per capita. Big corporations
in the US have you and everybody else
by the cajones; you're just too stupid
to see it.

You're so stupid you see bogeymen behind every tree.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:16:44 -0400, "
wrote:

You should compare how much tax is
collected per capita. Big corporations
in the US have you and everybody else
by the cajones; you're just too stupid
to see it.

You're so stupid you see bogeymen behind every tree.

Confederates in the tree line. Behind every bush.

Corporations don't pay taxes. They
collect taxes from their customers, to
pay the tax monster.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
BULL S...
U.S. corporations pay incredibly low taxes
due to the loopholes, credits,
and deductions in the tax code

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:59:29 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Corporations don't pay taxes. They
collect taxes from their customers, to
pay the tax monster.

They ship the jobs overseas to avoid the tax so they can sell cheaper.
Democrats love sending jobs to other countries; more people dependant on them.