"NotMe" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:26:30 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"The Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration (FMCSA) recently impeded
the ability of truckers to deliver water and sand to drilling [fracking]
sites by reinterpreting a 50-year-old rule to limit the amount of time
that
truck drivers can work in a day. 'This is clearly an indication that
somewhere up in the top echelons of this administration, there is a
constant
battle - a war going on - to try to artificially level the playing field
between the oil and gas industry and the renewable [energy] industry...' "

http://washingtonexaminer.com/epa-wa...rticle/2504345


"Fracking" is a term invented by liberals. Meant to make the masses
afraid of the technology of fracturing.

Long been a term used in the oil patch long before the current dust up.
Derivative word is fracturing. In fact it was used in the Plow Share
projects of the AEC with underground testing in the 50/60s.

I also recall statements to the effect the process is perfectly safe and
won't harm underground aquifers/water sources.

I'm getting a headache listening to comments by drillers, property owners,
etc. Besides danger of contamination, there are byproducts the have to be
disposed.
I hear it from clean water action group, politicians, companies, and
property owners. Hot topic around here. Now they want to " send water
runoff from sewage systems to underground storage somewhere ?

Greg

"gregz" wrote in message
...
"NotMe" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:26:30 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"The Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration (FMCSA) recently
impeded
the ability of truckers to deliver water and sand to drilling
[fracking]
sites by reinterpreting a 50-year-old rule to limit the amount of time
that
truck drivers can work in a day. 'This is clearly an indication that
somewhere up in the top echelons of this administration, there is a
constant
battle - a war going on - to try to artificially level the playing
field
between the oil and gas industry and the renewable [energy]
industry...' "

http://washingtonexaminer.com/epa-wa...rticle/2504345


"Fracking" is a term invented by liberals. Meant to make the masses
afraid of the technology of fracturing.

Long been a term used in the oil patch long before the current dust up.
Derivative word is fracturing. In fact it was used in the Plow Share
projects of the AEC with underground testing in the 50/60s.

I also recall statements to the effect the process is perfectly safe and
won't harm underground aquifers/water sources.

I'm getting a headache listening to comments by drillers, property owners,
etc. Besides danger of contamination, there are byproducts the have to be
disposed.

I hear it from clean water action group, politicians, companies, and
property owners. Hot topic around here. Now they want to " send water
runoff from sewage systems to underground storage somewhere ?

I worked in the oil patch when I was in engineering school and off/on in the
years following. I didn't trust industry statements back then and I've seen
nothing in the between times to change that position. This goes double for
pipelines and refineries.

Underground storage will work if the storage is in a salt dome. Been used
for decades without problem if done right.

One problem salt domes don't often occur where they are needed most.

NotMe wrote:

I hear it from clean water action group, politicians, companies, and
property owners. Hot topic around here. Now they want to " send water
runoff from sewage systems to underground storage somewhere ?

I worked in the oil patch when I was in engineering school and off/on
in the years following. I didn't trust industry statements back then
and I've seen nothing in the between times to change that position. This
goes double for pipelines and refineries.

Underground storage will work if the storage is in a salt dome. Been
used for decades without problem if done right.

One problem salt domes don't often occur where they are needed most.

Interesting facts about salt (dome) mines:
* Only mine that doesn't require two entrances, because there's never been a
cave-in in a salt mine.
* Salt mines have 0% humidity, constant temperature, and are vermin free.
* The average salt dome contains six cubic miles of salt. All of the people
on earth, if stacked up like cordwood, would fit in ONE cubic mile. There
are over 2,000 mapped salt domes in the Gulf of Mexico area.

In 1980, a Texaco oil drilling rig commenced operation on 10-foot deep Lake
Peigneur, Louisiana. At about the 500-foot level, something went terribly
wrong. The drilling barge began to vibrate. Presently a whirlpool formed
beneath the rig. The workers immediately jumped into their boats and headed
for shore. They all didn't make it.

The reason they didn't make it was that the lake disappeared, grounding the
boats in the mud of the (former) lake bottom; the workers had to mud-walk
the rest of the way. The malestrom sucked up the drilling barge and eleven
other supply barges, caused a 164' waterfall (the highest waterfall in
Louisiana), and did whopping damage to the land around the lake.

What caused all this was the drilling bit puncturing the ceiling of a salt
mine!

No injuries or fatalities were reported, although three dogs were apparently
lost. Luckily, there were no cats in the area.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
NotMe wrote:

I hear it from clean water action group, politicians, companies, and
property owners. Hot topic around here. Now they want to " send water
runoff from sewage systems to underground storage somewhere ?

I worked in the oil patch when I was in engineering school and off/on
in the years following. I didn't trust industry statements back then
and I've seen nothing in the between times to change that position. This
goes double for pipelines and refineries.

Underground storage will work if the storage is in a salt dome. Been
used for decades without problem if done right.

One problem salt domes don't often occur where they are needed most.

Interesting facts about salt (dome) mines:
* Only mine that doesn't require two entrances, because there's never been
a cave-in in a salt mine.
* Salt mines have 0% humidity, constant temperature, and are vermin free.
* The average salt dome contains six cubic miles of salt. All of the
people on earth, if stacked up like cordwood, would fit in ONE cubic mile.
There are over 2,000 mapped salt domes in the Gulf of Mexico area.

In 1980, a Texaco oil drilling rig commenced operation on 10-foot deep
Lake Peigneur, Louisiana. At about the 500-foot level, something went
terribly wrong. The drilling barge began to vibrate. Presently a whirlpool
formed beneath the rig. The workers immediately jumped into their boats
and headed for shore. They all didn't make it.

The reason they didn't make it was that the lake disappeared, grounding
the boats in the mud of the (former) lake bottom; the workers had to
mud-walk the rest of the way. The malestrom sucked up the drilling barge
and eleven other supply barges, caused a 164' waterfall (the highest
waterfall in Louisiana), and did whopping damage to the land around the
lake.

What caused all this was the drilling bit puncturing the ceiling of a salt
mine!

No injuries or fatalities were reported, although three dogs were
apparently lost. Luckily, there were no cats in the area.


A salt dome is not a salt mine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_dome

harryagain wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
NotMe wrote:

I hear it from clean water action group, politicians, companies,
and property owners. Hot topic around here. Now they want to "
send water runoff from sewage systems to underground storage
somewhere ?

I worked in the oil patch when I was in engineering school and
off/on in the years following. I didn't trust industry statements
back then and I've seen nothing in the between times to change that
position. This goes double for pipelines and refineries.

Underground storage will work if the storage is in a salt dome. Been
used for decades without problem if done right.

One problem salt domes don't often occur where they are needed most.

Interesting facts about salt (dome) mines:
* Only mine that doesn't require two entrances, because there's
never been a cave-in in a salt mine.
* Salt mines have 0% humidity, constant temperature, and are vermin
free. * The average salt dome contains six cubic miles of salt. All of
the
people on earth, if stacked up like cordwood, would fit in ONE cubic
mile. There are over 2,000 mapped salt domes in the Gulf of Mexico
area. In 1980, a Texaco oil drilling rig commenced operation on 10-foot
deep Lake Peigneur, Louisiana. At about the 500-foot level,
something went terribly wrong. The drilling barge began to vibrate.
Presently a whirlpool formed beneath the rig. The workers
immediately jumped into their boats and headed for shore. They all
didn't make it. The reason they didn't make it was that the lake
disappeared,
grounding the boats in the mud of the (former) lake bottom; the
workers had to mud-walk the rest of the way. The malestrom sucked up
the drilling barge and eleven other supply barges, caused a 164'
waterfall (the highest waterfall in Louisiana), and did whopping
damage to the land around the lake.

What caused all this was the drilling bit puncturing the ceiling of
a salt mine!

No injuries or fatalities were reported, although three dogs were
apparently lost. Luckily, there were no cats in the area.


A salt dome is not a salt mine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_dome

Agreed, but several salt domes contain salt mines.

There are three kinds of salt mines:
1. Bedded salt where the salt is mined much like an old-fashioned coal mine.
There are several of these in the northeast, principally Pennsylvania.
2. Room-and-Pillar mines. A shaft is sunk vertically into a salt dome and
rooms hollowed out in a checkerboard pattern. These rooms are typicall
100x100 feet and 60 feet tall. I've been in one and they are truly weird
what with salt-encrusted trucks and front-end loaders driving around
helter-skelter.
3. Brine mines. A pipe is drilled into the dome and (usually hot) water is
injected and the brine taken out. The brine is then pumped to an evaporating
area of several acres. After the water evaporates, front-end loaders scoop
up the dried salt.

Less than 1% of mined salt is used for human consumption. Some is used for
livestock, but the vast majority is used in manufacturing. Sodium chloride
(salt), yields two important chemicals: Chlorine, used for just about
everything, and Sodium used as Sodium hydroxide in metal fabrication.