For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are
also issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and
then brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at
the estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent"
practice. He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate
that I was holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was
going to handle the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't
have any soffit vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll
be $200 more soffit vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and
not even notice that there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably
be the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very
complete estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies
had not mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2
estimates. He even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the
others. I asked him about that. "What's different about your plywood or
the way you install it that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and
another thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate,
does he really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he
has higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for.
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge vent
and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are also
issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and then
brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at the
estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.
He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate that I was
holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was going to handle
the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't have any soffit
vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll be $200 more soffit
vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and not even notice that
there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably be
the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very complete
estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies had not
mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2 estimates. He
even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the others. I asked him
about that. "What's different about your plywood or the way you install it
that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and another
thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate, does he
really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he has
higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for.
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.


Roofers like to take a lot of shortcuts. This is a job I prefer to do
myself.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

Hi,
Ridge vent is more involved to install. Box vent is lot easier.
What is the matter, was the house built with improper venting to begin
with? Either way done properly there is no difference between two.
Flowing air does not know what kinda vent it is.

Pat wrote:
wrote in message
...
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge vent
and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are also
issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and then
brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at the
estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.
He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate that I was
holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was going to handle
the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't have any soffit
vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll be $200 more soffit
vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and not even notice that
there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably be
the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very complete
estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies had not
mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2 estimates. He
even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the others. I asked him
about that. "What's different about your plywood or the way you install it
that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and another
thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate, does he
really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he has
higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for.
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.


Roofers like to take a lot of shortcuts. This is a job I prefer to do
myself.

Hi,
That is why all my properties have metal tiles or standing rib steel
roofs. Will last at least for my life time and more. Done once, forget
about it.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are
also issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and
then brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at
the estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent"
practice. He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the
estimate that I was holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him
how he was going to handle the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice
that you don't have any soffit vents." A quick calculation later and
he said "That'll be $200 more soffit vents." How the heck do you
estimate a roof job and not even notice that there are no soffit
vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll
probably be the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never
call us back unless you want some other work done." He eventually
gave me very complete estimate, including doing a few things that the
other companies had not mentioned. Problem is, he's more than twice
the other 2 estimates. He even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood
than the others. I asked him about that. "What's different about your
plywood or the way you install it that makes it worth $10 more per
sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead
to cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and
another thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the
estimate, does he really expect me to pay more for everything else
just because he has higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I
could get the other contractors to add in his items for a lot less
than he's doing them for. Seriously - If I added the other 2
estimates together, they be less than his.

The search goes on.


Last year when I had my roof replaced I asked for recommendations from
people I knew. I was given a list of names and did my own research on
their reputations. Then I had estimates done and compared them all to
each other. As you say there is a wide variety of costs they quote but
the tiebreaker for me was the reputation of the contractor.

The one I chose wasn't the cheapest but they reduced their price a few
hundred dollars when I showed them the quote from a competitor and told
them I would rather deal with them because of their reputation. They
had a crew of 6 Mexicans do the job on my 2200 sq ft ranch house and it
took them 2 1/2 days to rip out the old shingles, replace the plywood
for the old fans and cupola, install new ridge vent and vents for the
sinks, and clean up the attic and premises spotlessly. They didn't
even goof off during that time, they just did a thorough job. I have
not had to call them back once and would recommend them to others.

Sometimes service is worth the extra price.

On Apr 18, 1:26*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

Hi,
Ridge vent is more involved to install. Box vent is lot easier.

Why would it be a lot easier to install box vents? With a ridge
vent, all you do is run a circular saw down the ridge line,
once on each side. And you don't have a bunch of box vents
to go around when you're doing the shingles. The ridge vent,
if anything seems easier to me.

On Apr 17, 11:04*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are
also issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and
then brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at
the estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent"
practice. He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate
that I was holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was
going to handle the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't
have any soffit vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll
be $200 more soffit vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and
not even notice that there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably
be the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very
complete estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies
had not mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2
estimates. He even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the
others. I asked him about that. "What's different about your plywood or
the way you install it that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and
another thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate,
does he really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he
has higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for.
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.

Sounds like you're on the right track. I'm willing to pay more for
good work, but there is usually a middle ground guy. And unless
you check their references, the most expensive guy could still
do a half-assed job. You have to wonder how these guys that
are 2X get the job. I went through that when replacing my furnace
and AC. The most expensive guy was 2X. He did show up at
the house and put those disposable booties on his feet before
coming inside and he had a brand new truck. I guess that must
impress enough folks. He was a nice guy, but like your guy,
refused to budge on price, even though he had the most room
to move.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Ridge vent is more involved to install. Box vent is lot easier.

That is total horse-****.

For a ridge vent, you take a radial saw and cut the decking from one
side to the other to give you about 2" gap at the very peak. Naturally
you set the blade so you don't cut the rafters.

It's easy to deal with the felt and the shingles. The vent itself is
easy to nail in place.

Box vents require more fussy work with the tar paper and shingles.

And no question that ridge vents give you more even air flow, and they
draw air from the very top of the attic (box vents are set further down
from the peak).

Flowing air does not know what kinda vent it is.

I still say to use the lightest-colored shingles you can get away with,
and go with powered fans instead of a lot of passive roof venting (but
still have as much soffet venting as is possible).

..

Sometimes service is worth the extra price.
Hi,
That is so true. In service business price is not no. 1 issue. Good
service with good experience and knowledge count the most. This is what
they say in business management course in retail.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

(stuff)

Roofing companies absolutely hate to have to re-engineer an attic's
ventilation arrangement.

Replacing rotted decking, valley and chimney flashing, replacing
existing vents, even adding new vents - that stuff is standard for them.

Having to deal with gutters or soffits - no. They don't want to do that.

Call a company that does siding and have them give you a quote to
upgrade your soffit venting. Deal with that separately. Leave the
roofing to the roofing companies.

Something else you can do that might save some $$$:

In most cities, there are one or two large shingle wholesalers that sell
shingles to most everyone except maybe the big-box stores. They sell to
roofers, DIY's, etc. They are the ones that deliver the shingles
directly to the roof-top.

When you get a roofing job done, the roofer buys the shingles from the
wholesaler, and jacks up the price to by 50% just for good measure. So
if the roofer pays $20 a bundle, you end up paying $30.

You should ask the roofer to give you a quote for doing the job without
including the cost of the shingles and underlayment (ice guard, felt,
etc). Tell him that stuff will be on-site (and on the roof) when he
gets there - because you will order it from the wholesaler.

But note that some roofers won't do the job unless you buy the shingles
from them. Those are the ones that are building in a healthy profit in
selling you the shingles.

On Apr 18, 9:50*am, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

(stuff)

Roofing companies absolutely hate to have to re-engineer an attic's
ventilation arrangement.

Replacing rotted decking, valley and chimney flashing, replacing
existing vents, even adding new vents - that stuff is standard for them.

Having to deal with gutters or soffits - no. They don't want to do that.

Call a company that does siding and have them give you a quote to
upgrade your soffit venting. *Deal with that separately. *Leave the
roofing to the roofing companies.

Something else you can do that might save some $$$:

In most cities, there are one or two large shingle wholesalers that sell
shingles to most everyone except maybe the big-box stores. *They sell to
roofers, DIY's, etc. *They are the ones that deliver the shingles
directly to the roof-top.

When you get a roofing job done, the roofer buys the shingles from the
wholesaler, and jacks up the price to by 50% just for good measure. *So
if the roofer pays $20 a bundle, you end up paying $30.

You should ask the roofer to give you a quote for doing the job without
including the cost of the shingles and underlayment (ice guard, felt,
etc). *Tell him that stuff will be on-site (and on the roof) when he
gets there - because you will order it from the wholesaler.

And like the roofer isn't going to then adjust the rest of
his pricing so he makes the same on the job? They
would have to be pretty stupid to not.







But note that some roofers won't do the job unless you buy the shingles
from them. *Those are the ones that are building in a healthy profit in
selling you the shingles.

" wrote:

You should ask the roofer to give you a quote for doing the job
without including the cost of the shingles and underlayment
(ice guard, felt, etc). Tell him that stuff will be on-site
(and on the roof) when he gets there - because you will order
it from the wholesaler.

And like the roofer isn't going to then adjust the rest of
his pricing so he makes the same on the job? They
would have to be pretty stupid to not.

That depends on how competitive your local roofing market is.

Having to buy and pay for the roofing materials is (or can be) a
cash-flow issue for some roofers, and if you take that off their hands
(when you buy the material yourself) they may not necessarily penalize
you by inflating their labor price for doing the job.

wrote:
On Apr 18, 1:26 am, Tony wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

Hi,
Ridge vent is more involved to install. Box vent is lot easier.

Why would it be a lot easier to install box vents? With a ridge
vent, all you do is run a circular saw down the ridge line,
once on each side. And you don't have a bunch of box vents
to go around when you're doing the shingles. The ridge vent,
if anything seems easier to me.


Hi,
Depends on style of roof. My main house roof does not have long ridge
line at the peak. They are all sloped.

Home Guy wrote:


I still say to use the lightest-colored shingles you can get away
with, and go with powered fans instead of a lot of passive roof
venting (but still have as much soffet venting as is possible).

Depends on the neighborhood.

Drive around. Do you see any light-colored shingles? If you do, how do they
look?

In an urban environment, light-colored shingles will discolor from all the
particulate matter in the air. The shingles will, in short order, look
absolutely horrid.

HeyBub wrote:

I still say to use the lightest-colored shingles you can get away
with, and go with powered fans instead of a lot of passive roof
venting (but still have as much soffet venting as is possible).

In an urban environment, light-colored shingles will discolor from
all the particulate matter in the air. The shingles will, in short
order, look absolutely horrid.

By light-colored, I mean this:

http://www.coferadams.com/images/pro...desert-tan.jpg

Not this:

http://www.unitedhomeexperts.com/Por...ilverbirch.jpg

Yes, I agree that the very light-colored shingles (light grey, light
green, etc) will usually discolor or streak or mildew over time.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are
also issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and
then brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at
the estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent"
practice. He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate
that I was holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was
going to handle the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't
have any soffit vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll
be $200 more soffit vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and
not even notice that there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably
be the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very
complete estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies
had not mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2
estimates. He even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the
others. I asked him about that. "What's different about your plywood or
the way you install it that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and
another thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate,
does he really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he
has higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for.
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.

Higher overhead tends to go along with higher reliability, more years in
business, proper licenses and insurance, etc. Certainly no guarantee and
you have to check those things, but the low overhead folks are usually
the ones that are here today and gone tomorrow.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:53:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 18, 9:50*am, Home Guy wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

(stuff)

Roofing companies absolutely hate to have to re-engineer an attic's
ventilation arrangement.

Replacing rotted decking, valley and chimney flashing, replacing
existing vents, even adding new vents - that stuff is standard for them.

Having to deal with gutters or soffits - no. They don't want to do that.

Call a company that does siding and have them give you a quote to
upgrade your soffit venting. *Deal with that separately. *Leave the
roofing to the roofing companies.

Something else you can do that might save some $$$:

In most cities, there are one or two large shingle wholesalers that sell
shingles to most everyone except maybe the big-box stores. *They sell to
roofers, DIY's, etc. *They are the ones that deliver the shingles
directly to the roof-top.

When you get a roofing job done, the roofer buys the shingles from the
wholesaler, and jacks up the price to by 50% just for good measure. *So
if the roofer pays $20 a bundle, you end up paying $30.

You should ask the roofer to give you a quote for doing the job without
including the cost of the shingles and underlayment (ice guard, felt,
etc). *Tell him that stuff will be on-site (and on the roof) when he
gets there - because you will order it from the wholesaler.

And like the roofer isn't going to then adjust the rest of
his pricing so he makes the same on the job? They
would have to be pretty stupid to not.

....and add hefty premium, on top, for all the "help" you're giving him.

On Apr 18, 12:41*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

For those that don't recall the original thread, I had a roofing
contractor tell me that my 6" soffits were too narrow to use a ridge
vent and he recommended box vents instead.

All a.h.r responders basically said BS.

I have had 2 more estimates since then and also spoke to 2 shingle
manufacturer's customer service lines. No one has ever heard of the
"narrow soffit - no ridge vent" practice.

So, while I'd like to tell that contractor to take a hike, there are
also issues with the other 2 estimates:

One company came out, took a look at the house when I wasn't home and
then brought over the estimate one day after work. Before I looked at
the estimate I asked him about the "narrow soffit - no ridge vent"
practice. He said that it doesn't even make sense and that the estimate
that I was holding included a ridge vent. When I asked him how he was
going to handle the soffits he said "Oh, I didn't notice that you don't
have any soffit vents." A quick calculation later and he said "That'll
be $200 more soffit vents." How the heck do you estimate a roof job and
not even notice that there are no soffit vents?

The other company seemed very well prepared, asked me a bunch of
questions, and then said. "I'll tell you right up front, we'll probably
be the most expensive estimate you'll get, but you'll never call us back
unless you want some other work done." He eventually gave me very
complete estimate, including doing a few things that the other companies
had not mentioned. Problem is, he's more than *twice* the other 2
estimates. He even charges $10 more per sheet of plywood than the
others. I asked him about that. "What's different about your plywood or
the way you install it that makes it worth $10 more per sheet?"

The answer: "There's nothing different. I just have a lot of overhead to
cover. I have 5 trucks like mine, a dump truck, a this, a that and
another thing." Even if he did include some extra items on the estimate,
does he really expect me to pay more for everything else just because he
has higher overhead than the other guys? I'm sure I could get the other
contractors to add in his items for a lot less than he's doing them for..
Seriously - If I added the other 2 estimates together, they be less than
his.

The search goes on.

Higher overhead tends to go along with higher reliability, more years in
business, proper licenses and insurance, etc. Certainly no guarantee and
you have to check those things, but the low overhead folks are usually
the ones that are here today and gone tomorrow.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No argument, but I'm not dealing with any fly-by-nighters.

They all have good reputations and references, a couple have
storefronts - nothing fancy, but you can find the owner if you need
to.

I can understand higher overhead, but 2X the other estimates? Maybe
they have *too* much overhead.

On 4/18/2012 7:11 AM, Home Guy wrote:

and go with powered fans instead of a lot of passive roof venting (but
still have as much soffet venting as is possible).

I just read "Builder's guide to cold climates" from Tauton Press which
said "attic ventilation fans should never be installed."