(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

For two goddamn days now, all they have had on TV is old news and
coverage from the 9/11 terrorist/world trade center collapse. Yea, I
know it's the anniversary, but do we really need to keep seeing this
over and over and over? It's getting real sickening...... I even
changed the channel to PBS, thinking they would have something
else..... WRONG..... More 9/11 ****.......

****** TV IS NOW OFF ******

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

Earl wrote:

(...)

Well, that's just it.

Earl didn't seem to write anything.

What's up Earl?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 5:09*am, wrote:
For two goddamn days now, all they have had on TV is old news and
coverage from the 9/11 terrorist/world trade center collapse. *Yea, I
know it's the anniversary, but do we really need to keep seeing this
over and over and over? *It's getting real sickening...... *I even
changed the channel to PBS, thinking they would have something
else..... WRONG..... More 9/11 ****.......

****** TV IS NOW OFF ******

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. (UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 2:35*am, harry wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

harry wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. (UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?

Most were in occupied Europe and Japan.

I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.

Heh! You say we are responsible for the mayhem visited upon us because of
the governments we supported or tolerated yet the "civilians" killed in
Afraq were innocent victims.


In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.


Consider what we did to Sadaam: We invaded his country, evicted him from his
homes, exiled his family, confiscated his fortune, killed his children,
imprisoned his friends, and ultimately got his skanky ass hanged.

Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

HeyBub wrote:

Consider what we did to Sadaam:

You gave him arms and chemical weapons so he could fight your war
against Iran.

Donald Rumsfeld personally gave those things to Saddam with a smile and
a photographed handshake.

Then you illegally invaded his country for the sole purpose of
assassinating him and his sons.

He complied with UN resolutions compelling him to provide "non-evidence"
of WMD's by giving you a room full of documents and CD's and in the end
you found no WMD's.

The Iraq war was no war. It was a political assassination dressed up to
look like a war.

And with him gone, with the blood of thousands of US servicemen spilled
in vain, thousands more maimed with missing limbs - where did all that
get you?

Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

You destabilized Iraq and pushed it into the hands of Iranian-controlled
islamofascists.

And it also got you $100 oil which played a large role in killing your
economy.

Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

God help us from the folly that is US foreign policy.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On 9/12/2011 8:02 AM, Home Guy wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Consider what we did to Sadaam:

You gave him arms and chemical weapons so he could fight your war
against Iran.

Donald Rumsfeld personally gave those things to Saddam with a smile and
a photographed handshake.

Then you illegally invaded his country for the sole purpose of
assassinating him and his sons.

He complied with UN resolutions compelling him to provide "non-evidence"
of WMD's by giving you a room full of documents and CD's and in the end
you found no WMD's.

The Iraq war was no war. It was a political assassination dressed up to
look like a war.

I agree and it was a damn poor costume.


And with him gone, with the blood of thousands of US servicemen spilled
in vain, thousands more maimed with missing limbs - where did all that
get you?

Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

You destabilized Iraq and pushed it into the hands of Iranian-controlled
islamofascists.

And it also got you $100 oil which played a large role in killing your
economy.

Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

God help us from the folly that is US foreign policy.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 12:47*pm, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Sep 12, 2:35*am, harry wrote:





You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. *That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not being vile.
But all the spouting hypocrisy I see at the ground zero site makes one
sick. Your own government is responsible for 9-11.
No-one else. But you voted them in.
You need to pay attention to what your gov.gets up to in foriegn
places.
It DOES matter.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 1:08*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?

Most were in occupied Europe and Japan.

I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.

Heh! You say we are responsible for the mayhem visited upon us because of
the governments we supported or tolerated yet the "civilians" killed in
Afraq were innocent victims.



In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Consider what we did to Sadaam: We invaded his country, evicted him from his
homes, exiled his family, confiscated his fortune, killed his children,
imprisoned his friends, and ultimately got his skanky ass hanged.

Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

But you have not won. The moment you leave, the islaamonuts will take
over.
You cant defeat an idea with guns.

These guys struck at the heart of America ($5T) strike. They have
pushed their cause to the front of world agenda. All it took was 25
men and a few weapons to defeat the might of America and push it into
bankrupsy.
They struck at the very heart of it's military machine.
They only just failed to assasinate the president.
They revealed to the world the incompetant oafs that run the military
and the country.
But the the most amazing thing of all is that Americans seem to have
learnt nothing from the experience.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On 9/12/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Sep 12, 2:35 am, wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. (UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

Some folks live in their own self imposed and hateful world. They get up
every morning knowing that their twisted views trump those of 100's of
million of normal people. Hard to imagine that anyone can be an alqueida
sympathizer.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 11, 11:09*pm, wrote:
For two goddamn days now, all they have had on TV is old news and
coverage from the 9/11 terrorist/world trade center collapse. *Yea, I
know it's the anniversary, but do we really need to keep seeing this
over and over and over? *It's getting real sickening...... *I even
changed the channel to PBS, thinking they would have something
else..... WRONG..... More 9/11 ****.......

****** TV IS NOW OFF ******

I dont mind the coverage so much as the censorship of the coverage.
They needed to show the people jumping off the buildings and
splattering. The coverage was sterilized to the point that anyone
watching it for the first time would think it was no big deal.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 2:35*am, harry wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:09*am, wrote:

For two goddamn days now, all they have had on TV is old news and
coverage from the 9/11 terrorist/world trade center collapse. *Yea, I
know it's the anniversary, but do we really need to keep seeing this
over and over and over? *It's getting real sickening...... *I even
changed the channel to PBS, thinking they would have something
else..... WRONG..... More 9/11 ****.......

****** TV IS NOW OFF ******

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

I like to think in an "enlightened" society like the UK that the
islamic immigrants there are just as much an Englishman as you are.
Or is the UK "keeping them in check" in housing and social status?
What affirmative action programs has the UK done for your substantial
Islamic community of equally British citizens? You also failed to
mention that UK is still our biggest ally and contributes greatly to
this war on terror.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 6:05*pm, George wrote:
On 9/12/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:





On Sep 12, 2:35 am, *wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. *That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

Some folks live in their own self imposed and hateful world. They get up
every morning knowing that their twisted views trump those of 100's of
million of normal people. Hard to imagine that anyone can be an alqueida
sympathizer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't sympathise with them at all. But I can see why it all
happened. But you and other Americans are too stupid too see that
what goes around comes around.
America has completely f****d upthe middle east to the detrimentof
the world.

Americans live in Lalaland. They don't give a toss about the rest of
the world.They think they can just pillage it at will and with
impunity.
Well you have had a messge.

You can't.

Are you receiving?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 9:40*pm, RickH wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:09*pm, wrote:

For two goddamn days now, all they have had on TV is old news and
coverage from the 9/11 terrorist/world trade center collapse. *Yea, I
know it's the anniversary, but do we really need to keep seeing this
over and over and over? *It's getting real sickening...... *I even
changed the channel to PBS, thinking they would have something
else..... WRONG..... More 9/11 ****.......

****** TV IS NOW OFF ******

I dont mind the coverage so much as the censorship of the coverage.
They needed to show the people jumping off the buildings and
splattering. *The coverage was sterilized to the point that anyone
watching it for the first time would think it was no big deal.

Compared with what you lot did in say Vietnam or Nicaragua it wasn't.
Or even the two million indians you killed.
But you don't hear them whineing about it. But they have not
forgotten.

For once, on the rceiving end.
How do you like it?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On 9/13/2011 2:10 AM, harry wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:05 pm, wrote:
On 9/12/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:





On Sep 12, 2:35 am, wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. (UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

Some folks live in their own self imposed and hateful world. They get up
every morning knowing that their twisted views trump those of 100's of
million of normal people. Hard to imagine that anyone can be an alqueida
sympathizer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't sympathise with them at all. But I can see why it all
happened. But you and other Americans are too stupid too see that
what goes around comes around.
America has completely f****d upthe middle east to the detrimentof
the world.

Americans live in Lalaland. They don't give a toss about the rest of
the world.They think they can just pillage it at will and with
impunity.
Well you have had a messge.

You can't.

Are you receiving?

As I said, there are some people who live in their own self imposed and
hateful world who know their views trump those of normal people. Have
someone read what you write to you. Maybe it will sink in?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

Home Guy wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Consider what we did to Sadaam:

You gave him arms and chemical weapons so he could fight your war
against Iran.

Donald Rumsfeld personally gave those things to Saddam with a smile
and a photographed handshake.

Then you illegally invaded his country for the sole purpose of
assassinating him and his sons.

Uh, yeah, but I wouldn't call it the SOLE purpose. Killing some of his
accomplices factored into the equation.


He complied with UN resolutions compelling him to provide
"non-evidence" of WMD's by giving you a room full of documents and
CD's and in the end you found no WMD's.

The Iraq war was no war. It was a political assassination dressed up
to look like a war.

And? You say that like you think there's something wrong with it.


And with him gone, with the blood of thousands of US servicemen
spilled in vain, thousands more maimed with missing limbs - where did
all that get you?

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing. All our service
members are volunteers. They joined up knowing the risk of death or
disability, much like a mountain climber or a race car driver. They wanted
the opportunity to kill people and blow things up. To them, the possible
rewards outweighed the risks.


Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

Aside from satisfaction? Lots of things: 30 million people freed from
totalitarianism, more oil (eventually) on the world's market, a HUGE base in
the Middle East from which to launch future wars of liberation,
yadda-yadda-yadda.


And it also got you $100 oil which played a large role in killing your
economy.

Just think what the price of oil would be had we not intervened !


Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

God help us from the folly that is US foreign policy.

No one else is powerful enough and I have my doubts about God.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:24:31 -0400, George
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 2:10 AM, harry wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:05 pm, wrote:
On 9/12/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:





On Sep 12, 2:35 am, wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. (UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

Some folks live in their own self imposed and hateful world. They get up
every morning knowing that their twisted views trump those of 100's of
million of normal people. Hard to imagine that anyone can be an alqueida
sympathizer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't sympathise with them at all. But I can see why it all
happened. But you and other Americans are too stupid too see that
what goes around comes around.
America has completely f****d upthe middle east to the detrimentof
the world.

Americans live in Lalaland. They don't give a toss about the rest of
the world.They think they can just pillage it at will and with
impunity.
Well you have had a messge.

You can't.

Are you receiving?

As I said, there are some people who live in their own self imposed and
hateful world who know their views trump those of normal people. Have
someone read what you write to you. Maybe it will sink in?

You both have your views George. I'm American but I tend to agree with
Harry. I grew up during Vietnam, trying to understand why my country
was fighting against the clear will of the Vietnamese people. Our
country, born in revolution against colonial (and corporate) control,
was fighting for the colonial powers.

I found a likely answer in the writings of a true American hero,
Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler (look him up). General
Butler, winner of the Medal of Honor in two separate wars, wrote that
we go to war because it is in the interests of powerful individuals
and corporations to do so. He's been dead many years now but looking
at things through that perspective explains why we are involved all
over the world. Not for Mom, Apple Pie, or Democracy. It's for profit,
profit for corporations that have no loyalty to the US.

Here are some of General Butler's words, read them and see if maybe
Iraq now makes sense to you. If you feel that we have the right to
rape the world for the benefit of the already powerful, then feel free
to believe that. General Butler writes about wars that we have
forgotten about for the most part, or maybe never even learned about.
But they were fought, because, well, not for the offical reasons:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and
during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for
Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a
racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and
especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped
make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to
collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central
American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify
Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in
1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American
sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American
fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that
Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might
have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate
his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:11:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

How about the number of Indians (the other ones) the British killed.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

"HeyBub" wrote

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing. All our service
members are volunteers. They joined up knowing the risk of death or
disability, much like a mountain climber or a race car driver. They wanted
the opportunity to kill people and blow things up. To them, the possible
rewards outweighed the risks.

Do you actually *know* any servicemen or women? My wife joined the Army in
1980 and she certainly didn't join to kill people and blow things up. The
reality is that her civil affairs unit *specializes* in rebuilding blown
apart countries (from tidal waves to wars) to help them back on the path
towards civilization.

I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the hundreds of
thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and blow up" types.
In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of the spear."
They get where they need to be and have what it takes to do the job because
of average Joes and Janes in combat support missions. I hate to burst your
pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not "born killers" but mostly young people
looking for steady employment or a way to pay for college, like my wife did
in 1980.

The "kill and blow up" folks do exist, but they are mostly special operators
who not only *want* to be in the thick of it, they've proved through the
most rigorous training on earth that they have a *right* and the will to be
there. The reality is that they are very, very few in number,
percentage-wise. I am thankful for both kinds of soldiers but for you to
keep lumping the two of them together is beyond ludicrous as I hope most
people with relatives in the military will tell you.

--
Bobby G.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing. All our service
members are volunteers. They joined up knowing the risk of death or
disability, much like a mountain climber or a race car driver. They wanted
the opportunity to kill people and blow things up. To them, the possible
rewards outweighed the risks.

Do you actually *know* any servicemen or women? My wife joined the Army in
1980 and she certainly didn't join to kill people and blow things up. The
reality is that her civil affairs unit *specializes* in rebuilding blown
apart countries (from tidal waves to wars) to help them back on the path
towards civilization.
Yep, an n=1 from the 80s certainly is representative of the current
military.


I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the hundreds of
thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and blow up" types.
In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of the spear."
They get where they need to be and have what it takes to do the job because
of average Joes and Janes in combat support missions. I hate to burst your
pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not "born killers" but mostly young people
looking for steady employment or a way to pay for college, like my wife did
in 1980.
I would argue that point since 9-11, especially. While not born
killers, they did sign up with the knowledge that firing bullets or
bombs at people was going to be part of the job description.



The "kill and blow up" folks do exist, but they are mostly special operators
who not only *want* to be in the thick of it, they've proved through the
most rigorous training on earth that they have a *right* and the will to be
there. The reality is that they are very, very few in number,
percentage-wise. I am thankful for both kinds of soldiers but for you to
keep lumping the two of them together is beyond ludicrous as I hope most
people with relatives in the military will tell you.

-
You are being at least as simplistic as HB is. Those going into
combat-related billets such as infantry, calvary, the Marines in
general, etc., have at least some of this in them. While the special
forces guys are probably at the top of the scale, these other
professions knew going in that killing people and blowing things up was
gonna be a BIG part of the job description.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 13, 12:24*pm, George wrote:
On 9/13/2011 2:10 AM, harry wrote:





On Sep 12, 6:05 pm, *wrote:
On 9/12/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:

On Sep 12, 2:35 am, * *wrote:

You may get with drawal symptoms.
Lots of cover over here too. *(UK)
Hypocrisy.
What about the millions of innocent people America has killed over the
last fifty years?
I have very little sympathy. You are responsible for the government
you voted in. 11-9 was a consequense of past US government policy.
I hope Americans have got the message.
It's not nice getting your cities bombed.
Many times more people got killed in Bush's subsequent wars.
And they have not been won or fixed the problem, they have made things
worse.
Still, what do you expect when you elect a retard as president?
Incredibly, there is an even bigger retard in the pipeline in the
shape of the Palin object.

In fact, the terrorists won, America has been brought to it's knees in
part due to the cost of the wars and security.

Folly Folly Folly.

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. *That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

Some folks live in their own self imposed and hateful world. They get up
every morning knowing that their twisted views trump those of 100's of
million of normal people. Hard to imagine that anyone can be an alqueida
sympathizer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't sympathise with them at all. *But I can see why it all
happened. *But you and other Americans are too stupid too see that
what goes around comes around.
* America has completely f****d upthe middle east to the detrimentof
the world.

Americans live in Lalaland. They don't give a toss about the rest of
the world.They think they can just pillage it at will and with
impunity.
Well you have had a messge.

You can't.

Are you receiving?

As I said, there are some people who live in their own self imposed and
hateful world who know their views trump those of normal people. Have
someone read what you write to you. Maybe it will sink in?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The hate comes from America. Only money is loved there by an elite
class that robs the poor and plunders the world.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 13, 4:14*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:11:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the *two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

How about the number of Indians (the other ones) the British killed.

There was no such place as India. We created it.

How is it that the real culpritsof 9-11 were allowed to go free, ie
the Saudis?

Answer, they were already in your pocket. Iraq was all about oil.
Nothing about freedom or democracy.

http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
"Robert Green" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing. All our service
members are volunteers. They joined up knowing the risk of death or
disability, much like a mountain climber or a race car driver. They
wanted
the opportunity to kill people and blow things up. To them, the
possible
rewards outweighed the risks.

Do you actually *know* any servicemen or women? My wife joined the Army
in
1980 and she certainly didn't join to kill people and blow things up.
The
reality is that her civil affairs unit *specializes* in rebuilding blown
apart countries (from tidal waves to wars) to help them back on the path
towards civilization.

Yep, an n=1 from the 80s certainly is representative of the current
military.

And what's your personal experience with the military?

You're (incorrectly) assuming I've never met any of my wife's friends, never
listened to her crying whenever a old friend was KIA'ed, never gone to the
unit picnics, the yearly ball, the houses of her friends, vacation with
couples from her unit, etc. That's not likely, is it? Of course not. So I
think my experience with the attitudes of our military personnel might be
slightly greater than one.

I spent almost 10 years at the 5 sided wind tunnel trying to improve the
nation's professional military education (PME) systems and the services'
ability to interoperate well in joint operations. That job exposed me to
not only armed forces members of every service, but those of foreign
militaries as well and their families.

The force structure of the current military is very much like the force
structure in the 80's because the military is huge and changes very, very
slowly. There has been a significant rise in the area of special
operations, whose funding has increased dramatically since 9/11 but that
increase has actually been quite modest. However, some would say that in
finally getting organized to fight the AfRaq wars, we have shifted too much
focus away from the military's primary role in defending our country against
her much more credible enemies.

I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the hundreds of
thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and blow up"
types.
In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of the spear."
They get where they need to be and have what it takes to do the job
because
of average Joes and Janes in combat support missions. I hate to burst
your
pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not "born killers" but mostly young
people
looking for steady employment or a way to pay for college, like my wife
did
in 1980.

I would argue that point since 9-11, especially. While not born
killers, they did sign up with the knowledge that firing bullets or
bombs at people was going to be part of the job description.

If you want to compare what's in the heart of people you don't actually know
with what's in the heart of a person (and her friends) I know quite well
then be my guest.

The "kill and blow up" folks do exist, but they are mostly special
operators
who not only *want* to be in the thick of it, they've proved through the
most rigorous training on earth that they have a *right* and the will to
be
there. The reality is that they are very, very few in number,
percentage-wise. I am thankful for both kinds of soldiers but for you
to
keep lumping the two of them together is beyond ludicrous as I hope most
people with relatives in the military will tell you.

You are being at least as simplistic as HB is. Those going into
combat-related billets such as infantry, calvary, the Marines in
general, etc., have at least some of this in them. While the special
forces guys are probably at the top of the scale, these other
professions knew going in that killing people and blowing things up was
gonna be a BIG part of the job description.

HeyBub made no distinction about "combat-related" billets. You're adding
something to his statement that just isn't there to bolster its overall lack
of credibility. Let's look in detail at one branch, the USN:

Chief of Naval Operations (no active warfighters here)
Bureau of Naval Personnel (no active warfighters here)
Bureau of Medicine and Surgery (no active warfighters here)
Naval Sea Systems Command (no active warfighters here)
The Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) is the largest of the U.S. Navy's
five "systems commands," or materiel (not to be confused with
"material") organizations. NAVSEA's primary objective is to engineer, build
and support the U.S. Navy's fleet of ships and combat systems. NAVSEA
accounts for nearly one-fifth of the Navy's budget, with more than 100
acquisition programs under its oversight.
Naval Air Systems Command (no active warfighters here)
Naval Facilities Engineering Command (no active warfighters here)
Naval Supply Systems Command (no active warfighters here)
Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (no active warfighters here)
United States Naval Academy (no active warfighters here)
Naval Education and Training Command (no active warfighters here)
Naval Meteorology and Oceanography Command (no active warfighters here)
Naval Legal Service Command (no active warfighters here)
United States Naval Observatory (no active warfighters here since Cheney
leftg)
Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center (no active warfighters here, just
training)
Naval Safety Center (no active warfighters here)
Naval Security Group Command
Naval Reserve Forces
Operational Test & Evaluation Forces (no active warfighters here)
Naval Special Warfare Command
Naval Special Warfare personnel comprise *less than one percent* of U.S.
Navy personnel. SEAL and SWCC units' operate across the spectrum of
conflict and in operations other than war in a controlled manner. They
provide real time intelligence and eyes on target.
U.S. Naval Forces Central Command
Naval Network Warfare Command (no active warfighters here except
cyberwarriors)
U.S. Naval Forces Europe
Military Sealift Command (no active warfighters here)
U.S. Fleet Forces Command
U.S. Pacific Fleet
Naval Installations Command (no active warfighters here)
Director of Naval Nuclear Propulsion (no active warfighters here)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the man in the street sees only the
tip of the military iceberg, the warfighters, even though they represent a
small fraction of every dollar expended on the military.

Maybe if HeyBub had phrased it "these people join the military to serve
their country, even knowing the mortal risks they may be taking" I'd be a
little more forgiving. Reducing someone's patriotic act of joining the
nation's armed forces down to a desire to "kill people and blow things up"
is an incredible insult to all the non-homicidal members of the military.

--
Bobby G.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 13, 1:43*pm, harry wrote:
On Sep 13, 4:14*pm, "

wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:11:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the *two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

How about the number of Indians (the other ones) the British killed.

There was no such place as India. *We created it.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one! I had forgotten that before the British
Umpire (intentional disrespect to a no longer existent entity) there
were all vast areas of the Earth with no people, culture or history.
The BU was sooo lucky to have a free world to play in where nobody
would be harmed or displaced by their avarice.

You're a garden variety imbecile. Hee Haw Harry.

R

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 12, 7:47*am, Bob_Villa wrote:

Hating our government doesn't mean you need to show us (the people)
disrespect. *That is within yourself and I'm thankful for most of your
country's folk who are our friends.
You say you come here for visits and have friends here...why do you
find it necessary to be so vile here?

He's a solitary ass braying in a field. Once in a while he's fun to
poke with a stick, but in general a Hee Haw adequately covers the
importance of his words.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...72024410bad43d

R

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

HeyBub wrote:

Consider what we did to Sadaam:

You gave him arms and chemical weapons so he could fight your war
against Iran.

You said nothing about that, so you must agree with it.

And with him gone, with the blood of thousands of US servicemen
spilled in vain, thousands more maimed with missing limbs -
where did all that get you?

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing.

When your own servicemen are used as cannon fodder, that only weakens
your country's ability to fight a real war of self-protection.

Of course it's a bad thing to weaken and debilitate your own military
for reasons as trivial and inconsequential and counter-productive to
your national interest as you did in Iraq.

Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

Aside from satisfaction?

Who's satisfaction?

Lots of things: 30 million people freed from totalitarianism

Oh puleeze. How many americans have really brainwashed themselves and
their conscience into thinking that they've done some good in Iraq by
"liberating" those people?

The only think you've done is get more of them killed by the 10's of
thousands and ruined their lives and their infrastructure.

Just ask the handful of christian Iraqi's that are are still alive if
they think they're better off now.

more oil (eventually) on the world's market

Your Iraqi fiasco has delayed Iraq's oil production for at least a
decade. It was bad enough that you helped Iraq ruin it's own oil
infrastructure as you forced it to keep fighting your decade-long war
against Iran in the 1980's, and then you foisted a farce of a UN embargo
on it and in spite of that it was recovering nicely, ready to sell oil
to the rest of the world when the trade sanctions were set to end.

a HUGE base in the Middle East from which to launch future

future illegal escapades of inept and schizophrenic foreign policy

And it also got you $100 oil which played a large role in
killing your economy.

Just think what the price of oil would be had we not intervened!

What a maroon you are.

Just look at any oil-price chart and see how oil went up from $30
immediately after you illegally invaded Iraq. Your inept and insane
foreign policy, driven by your military-oil-industrial-complex and Dick
Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the neocons, had the exact effect THEY wanted, at
the expense of prosperity and domestic liberty for the average US
citizen.

God help us from the folly that is US foreign policy.

No one else is powerful enough and I have my doubts about God.

The motto of the USA:

With great power comes great ****ups.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:






I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the hundreds of
thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and blow up"
types.
In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of the spear."
They get where they need to be and have what it takes to do the job
because
of average Joes and Janes in combat support missions. I hate to burst
your
pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not "born killers" but mostly young
people
looking for steady employment or a way to pay for college, like my wife
did
in 1980.

I would argue that point since 9-11, especially. While not born
killers, they did sign up with the knowledge that firing bullets or
bombs at people was going to be part of the job description.

If you want to compare what's in the heart of people you don't actually know
with what's in the heart of a person (and her friends) I know quite well
then be my guest.

Heck, that is what you are doing outside of a very small sample of
people your wife (who by your admission was in a non-combat role) knew.
A skewed sample at that.



HeyBub made no distinction about "combat-related" billets.
Yeah and neither did you. That was sorta my point.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

You're a garden variety imbecile. Hee Haw Harry.

In the UK, A license is required to keep a lunatic.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

Robert Green wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote

Again, you say that like you think it was a bad thing. All our
service members are volunteers. They joined up knowing the risk of
death or disability, much like a mountain climber or a race car
driver. They wanted the opportunity to kill people and blow things
up. To them, the possible rewards outweighed the risks.

Do you actually *know* any servicemen or women? My wife joined the
Army in 1980 and she certainly didn't join to kill people and blow
things up. The reality is that her civil affairs unit *specializes*
in rebuilding blown apart countries (from tidal waves to wars) to
help them back on the path towards civilization.

I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the hundreds
of thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and blow up"
types. In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of
the spear." They get where they need to be and have what it takes to
do the job because of average Joes and Janes in combat support
missions. I hate to burst your pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not
"born killers" but mostly young people looking for steady employment
or a way to pay for college, like my wife did in 1980.

The "kill and blow up" folks do exist, but they are mostly special
operators who not only *want* to be in the thick of it, they've
proved through the most rigorous training on earth that they have a
*right* and the will to be there. The reality is that they are very,
very few in number, percentage-wise. I am thankful for both kinds of
soldiers but for you to keep lumping the two of them together is
beyond ludicrous as I hope most people with relatives in the military
will tell you.

Good points, all. In view of your explanations, I'll have to amend my claim.
I hope you'll accept the following:

"Members of our military joined for the thrill of killing people and blowing
things up or they joined to support those who kill people and blow things
up."

Thanks for your observation and personal testimony.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

There is a need for such service. But, I don't think that's
part of the military's purpose.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

Do you actually *know* any servicemen or women? My wife
joined the Army in
1980 and she certainly didn't join to kill people and blow
things up. The
reality is that her civil affairs unit *specializes* in
rebuilding blown
apart countries (from tidal waves to wars) to help them back
on the path
towards civilization.

I think you would be surprised to learn how very few of the
hundreds of
thousands of volunteers in our military are the "kill and
blow up" types.
In the Army the special operators are considered the "tip of
the spear."
They get where they need to be and have what it takes to do
the job because
of average Joes and Janes in combat support missions. I
hate to burst your
pulp-fiction bubble, but they are not "born killers" but
mostly young people
looking for steady employment or a way to pay for college,
like my wife did
in 1980.

The "kill and blow up" folks do exist, but they are mostly
special operators
who not only *want* to be in the thick of it, they've proved
through the
most rigorous training on earth that they have a *right* and
the will to be
there. The reality is that they are very, very few in
number,
percentage-wise. I am thankful for both kinds of soldiers
but for you to
keep lumping the two of them together is beyond ludicrous as
I hope most
people with relatives in the military will tell you.

--
Bobby G.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

"HeyBub" wrote in message news:Ld2dnfnOjq-

Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

Aside from satisfaction?

Do you get much satisfaction at having to withdraw from AfRaq after 10 years
of war with very little to show for it? I don't because I know it's one of
the reasons we're deep in debt and will be for a very long time. I think
having to pull out after 10 years with the enemy still quite active in Kabul
and Baghdad just makes us look we. When the magic war fairy shows up to
pick up the tab I'll be somewhat satisfied, but basically, we mortgaged
ourselves up to our eyeballs going after a country that had very little, if
anything, to do with 9/11. Those terrorists were almost to a man Saudi
Arabian, one of our "dearest" allies.

Lots of things: 30 million people freed from totalitarianism

Name two. We will have spent a trillion dollars bringing "democracy" to a
country that is basically all of the same religion that visited 9/11 upon
us. Does that make you a Muslim-lover, HeyBub? (-: I can think of a lot
people in *this* country that could have used the money better.

Libya, Egypt, Yemen and who knows what other countries have proved that when
the time is right, the people can bring about a revolution with very low
cost to us. And please, don't trot out that tired refrain "we showed them
the way." We were the ones who left our "good friends" the Kurds to get
gassed by Saddam after GW1. If anything, it was Wikileaks who showed them
how little their own leaders thought of them. Ironic we're trying to nail
the guy who showed us how to "regime change" on the cheap.

more oil (eventually) on the world's market

Seems to me that we mostly *stopped* production for a good number of years.
So that's two things we allegedly gained from the war. The first one
ostensibly mostly benefited Muslims living in Iraq and not us. The second
seems to have benefited the Chinese more that us because that's where Iraq
is now selling its oil:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37577656...fits-iraq-war/

From among the most outspoken of critics of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion to
topple Saddam Hussein, China has emerged as one of the biggest economic
beneficiaries of the war, snagging five lucrative deals.

But I guess in your world causing oil production to basically halt in Iraq
for a number of years and with future production promised to the Chinese is
a *good* thing. We pay for the war and they walk off with the prize.

Don't take my word for it:

Production plummeted to roughly 900,000 barrels per day in the early 1980s
amid the instability caused by the Iran-Iraq war. And after production
peaked at 3 million barrels per day in the late 1980s, the first Gulf War
sent output below 300,000 barrels per day in 1991. The second Gulf War
disrupted the uptick in Iraqi oil production that occurred in the 1990s.
Today, Iraqi oil production is just returning to the depressed levels that
prevailed just before the war.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1938...ction-increase

So, yes, if you're delusional, we really, really helped. (-:

a HUGE base in the Middle East from which to launch future wars of
liberation,
yadda-yadda-yadda.

You mean future wars leading us to bankruptcy, shedding *more* American
blood for Muslims, many of whom wouldn't cross the street to **** on us if
we were on fire.

We went from "lots" of reasons to a piddling few that turned out not to be
true. Got any *real* payback from our investment in AfRaq? It seems the
big "gift" will be having to cut back our military because of the economic
mess the wars left us in. With friends like that . . .

And it also got you $100 oil which played a large role in killing your
economy.

Just think what the price of oil would be had we not intervened !

Much lower. We depressed Iraqi output substantially.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploa...production.png

Pundits expect it to drop again when we leave and the various sects start
blowing each other up along with the oil wells.

Such fate awaits all those who mess with normal folk.

God help us from the folly that is US foreign policy.

Hey, Homeguy, you're Canadian, right? Stop complaining, we have to live
here. You're poised to be the next United States when global warming makes
all those frozen northern areas habitable and Texas into an inferno. I'll
be moving to Toronto if the 2012 elections put a real wackadoo in office.

No one else is powerful enough and I have my doubts about God.

It's an awfully big world and even the US could go completely bankrupt
trying to be the both the world's police and Muslim regime repairman.
History has shown us that Muslim sects are more than happy to exterminate
each other. Let's let them.

--
Bobby G.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:43:07 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

On Sep 13, 4:14*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:11:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the *two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

How about the number of Indians (the other ones) the British killed.

There was no such place as India. We created it.

Outta what? what a maroon!

How is it that the real culpritsof 9-11 were allowed to go free, ie
the Saudis?

Idiot.

Answer, they were already in your pocket. Iraq was all about oil.
Nothing about freedom or democracy.

http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

Total.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:35:46 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

You're a garden variety imbecile. Hee Haw Harry.

In the UK, A license is required to keep a lunatic.

Why would the government license itself?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:10:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

As I said, there are some people who live in their own self imposed and
hateful world who know their views trump those of normal people. Have
someone read what you write to you. Maybe it will sink in?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The hate comes from America. Only money is loved there by an elite
class that robs the poor and plunders the world.

The hate in that cold black heart of yours.

Try what George suggested. Let your wife Susan read what you right.

How is Susan doing?

Plunder -- I think they have found Blackbeard's Queen Anne's Revenge.
How much loot will it have...

One great pirate, plundered and even killed British troops under
Andrew Jackson (Old Hickory).

Just so you know, Indians also killed British red coats in the same
battle.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:18:33 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

Muslim regime repairman.

Where can I apply?

History has shown us that Muslim sects are more than happy to exterminate
each other. Let's let them.

It's Shake-N-Bake "Diddy". Can I help?

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:08:09 -0500, "
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:35:46 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

You're a garden variety imbecile. Hee Haw Harry.

In the UK, A license is required to keep a lunatic.

Why would the government license itself?

C'mon now. They have to have something to do.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

On Sep 13, 6:55*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 13, 1:43*pm, harry wrote:





On Sep 13, 4:14*pm, "

wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:11:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:15:07 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Or even the *two million indians you killed.

You spit this out all the time without giving a source. The same old
song and dance from you harry. In fact, you don't know how many
Indians the British or the French killed.

How about the number of Indians (the other ones) the British killed.

There was no such place as India. *We created it.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! *Good one! *I had forgotten that before the British
Umpire (intentional disrespect to a no longer existent entity) there
were all vast areas of the Earth with no people, culture or history.
The BU was sooo lucky to have a free world to play in where nobody
would be harmed or displaced by their avarice.

You're a garden variety imbecile. *Hee Haw Harry.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The USA is a fascist state where the wealth of the poor is stolen to
pay the rich.
That plunders and murders throughout the world.Wher emostof the
population isbrainwashed.
You are a star example.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in
"Robert Green" wrote:

stuff snipped

If you want to compare what's in the heart of people you don't actually
know
with what's in the heart of a person (and her friends) I know quite well
then be my guest.

Heck, that is what you are doing outside of a very small sample of
people your wife (who by your admission was in a non-combat role) knew.
A skewed sample at that.

You seem to have glossed over my ten year stint at the Pentagon where I
worked with O5's and up, most of who had seen combat in Vietnam, the GW1,
Bosnia and even Somalia and Korea. Quite a few of the bird colonels I
worked with are now one and two star generals.

It's not possible to spend ten years there and not come to certain
conclusions about why people joined and what kind of people they are. One
of the first things that happened when I was assigned there was to have some
of my new USMC friends *insist* on helping me paint my ailing parents'
house, even though they barely knew me. That's just one reason why I find
the HeyBub's assertion so offensive. I would call the the "motivating
principle" of almost all the officers I came in contact with was a sense of
patriotism and a desire to help protect America.

Maybe the kids just signing up to "kill them damn moose-lims" after playing
10 years of FPS video games think it's all about killing and blowing up
thing. Even then they represent the lowest rung on the military ladder.
Most become a hell of a lot more realistic about war when they realize
there's no cheat for eternal life and no reset button to start over when
you're killed. That wisdom usually comes when they are trying to repack a
buddies bowels back into his body cavity or some other similarly horrific
task.

I don't recall either you or HeyBub having a ten year stint at the Pentagon
under your belt, so I have to wonder where all your suppositions about what
makes soldiers tick come from. My wife attended a seemingless endless
series of courses at the various war colleges, the National Defense
University and lots of other places under the Army's Officer Education
System. That exposed her to many other soldiers from very different
backgrounds and with very different MOS's.

Overall, I'll agree that Civil Affairs Unit members have mostly other CAU
members as close friends, but that's not to the point of excluding all other
specialties. Of her friends that I know well, one is a special operator
(who always likes to count the number of deadly weapons within his reach in
a house or restaurant), another a JAG officer and a third a range safety
officer. Another good friend, a fellow civil affairs unit member died after
being stop-lossed, ending up blown to shreds by an IED on a "presence
mission" which translates into "drive around until you get shot or
exploded."

HeyBub made no distinction about "combat-related" billets.
Yeah and neither did you. That was sorta my point.

Sort of? It certainly didn't come across. HeyBub was pretty specific in
the wide net that his proclamation covered. I've been equally specific in
saying that not everyone who joins does so to kill and blow things up. We
can airdrop and assemble a working, self-sufficient city anywhere in the
world in less than 72 hours. Do you think those are all kill-happy
warfighters assembling those forward bases or engineers, combat support
personnel, cooks, truck drivers, comm techs, medics, etc?

--
Bobby G.

(OT) Turn the TV off......
 

Robert Green wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message news:Ld2dnfnOjq-

Iraq cost you close to $1 trillion dollars. What did you get for
spending that treasure?

Aside from satisfaction?

Do you get much satisfaction at having to withdraw from AfRaq after
10 years of war with very little to show for it? I don't because I
know it's one of the reasons we're deep in debt and will be for a
very long time.

Admittedly, some of the positive results are intangible. For example,
there's probably not a military commander, from sergeant to three-star, who
hasn't led men in combat. You don't get that kind of experience at the
bottom of a CrackerJacks box.



I think having to pull out after 10 years with the
enemy still quite active in Kabul and Baghdad just makes us look we.

After 250 years we still have burglars and armed robbers right here in River
City. We can't get them all, but we can reduce their impact to what John
Kerry called "a nusiance factor."

When the magic war fairy shows up to pick up the tab I'll be somewhat
satisfied, but basically, we mortgaged ourselves up to our eyeballs
going after a country that had very little, if anything, to do with
9/11. Those terrorists were almost to a man Saudi Arabian, one of
our "dearest" allies.

Yep. There was a miscalculation at the get-go. Some felt that with the
roaring economy, we could afford the wars. What was left out of the formula
was the possibility that Democrats would take over the Congress and/or the
presidency.

I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. I think we should declare their oil fields a
"World Resource," step in, by threats of force, and administer the petroleum
extraction in a fair, equitable, and cheap manner.