Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 7, 9:27*am, arkland wrote:
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

I would not start buying random parts and
replacing them. I would get another tech
out there. You could just be throwing money
away. The first step is seeing if the unit
is getting power, turn on signal, voltage to
the compressor, etc. It doesn't sound like
you have the skills to do that.
Ask friends, neighbors, other
tradesmen you know, etc for recommendations.
This guy is a scammer.

If it is just the compressor, it should not
cost anywhere near $2800 to replace it.
Amana already told you that the compressor
costs $500. Allowing for R22, misc parts,
labor, etc I would think you could get it
done for around $1000. I did exactly that on a
Ruud for $600, but that was 17 years ago.

There is also a lot we don't know. Like how
old the unit is, how much you use it, how long
you intend to stay there, what shape the
furnace or air handler is in, etc. If it's 20
years old, you use it
a lot, have high electric bills from it, etc, then
it might not be worth putting $1000 into it.
Consider the cost of new eqpt and factor in
any state, utility, etc credits available. For
the price of new eqpt, you can find the price
for Rheem and other eqpt online. That will
give you an idea of what that portion of the
install is costing.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

arkland wrote in
:

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern
California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central
air conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost
$100 for a service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me
on an entirely new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and
lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but
he did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace
the whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor &
controller and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

You may indeed have a bad unit.

but...

You may have a con job.

and the guy the whole time tried to sell me
on an entirely new A/C

Red flag!

Dateline NBC investigates air conditioning repairmen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK_rkvZeXdU

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 7, 9:27*am, arkland wrote:
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

You're in northern california so you're going to pay top dollar for
labor. I still would expect you should be able to get a quote around
$1500 including parts to replace the compressor.

When he said he wasn't getting a "liquid reading" on the r22 he may
have meant he was not seeing any pressure on the high side of the
compressor. Should be between 250psi and 350psi depending on the
outside temp. Confirming power to the compressor and checking for
high output pressure are two things to confirm a bad compressor
diagnosis.

No you can't replace it yourself.

The r22 will need to be evacuated before replacing the compressor and
reinstalled afterwards. Checking that the proper amount of r22 is
installed will be part of the post replacement work.

A lot of the techs are pressured to sell new installs. You are a
candidate. Life expectancy of most units is about 15 years. You are
looking at a major repair cost on a unit that may only last a few more
years. It's not completely unrealistic to replace it entirely.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

arkland wrote:
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22=== he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside)=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses& circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor& controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

Get someone else to look at your unit without mentioning the other guy.
It may be the best money you ever spent.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

jamesgangnc wrote in
:

On Sep 7, 9:27*am, arkland wrote:
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern
California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central
air conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost
$100 for a service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me
on an entirely new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and
lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor -
but he did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to
replace the whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of
course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued
the parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told
that I can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor &
controller and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

You're in northern california so you're going to pay top dollar for
labor. I still would expect you should be able to get a quote around
$1500 including parts to replace the compressor.

When he said he wasn't getting a "liquid reading" on the r22 he may
have meant he was not seeing any pressure on the high side of the
compressor. Should be between 250psi and 350psi depending on the
outside temp. Confirming power to the compressor and checking for
high output pressure are two things to confirm a bad compressor
diagnosis.

No you can't replace it yourself.

The r22 will need to be evacuated before replacing the compressor and
reinstalled afterwards. Checking that the proper amount of r22 is
installed will be part of the post replacement work.

A lot of the techs are pressured to sell new installs. You are a
candidate. Life expectancy of most units is about 15 years. You are
looking at a major repair cost on a unit that may only last a few more
years. It's not completely unrealistic to replace it entirely.



It's not completely unrealistic to replace it entirely.

Absolutely....if it's broke.

Like an old vehicle can nickle-dime ya.

It can also last another 5+ years with reasonable maintenance/repair
expenses. Also must consider efficiency of a new unit and immediate
ongoing savings.

First, confirm it's broke.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

As others have said, it sounds like the first guy was
pushing for selling a whole system. I agree, to reccomend
you call another repair company. I can think of a couple
smaller parts that might have been damaged, and you may get
several more good years from the system.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"arkland" wrote in message
...
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern
California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside
Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid
almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on
an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are
'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But
the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the
compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to
replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of
course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They
discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm
told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor &
controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was
hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

"arkland" wrote in message
...
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I'd invest another hundred and have another service tech look at it. Could
be something simple and no new unit needed. Could easily be a scam for the
first guy.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

arkland wrote the following:
I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!



Start with checking the fuses on the outside unit.
http://www.ehow.com/video_7524729_re...nditioner.html

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 8, 10:48*am, willshak wrote:
arkland wrote the following:





I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California..

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!

Start with checking the fuses on the outside unit.http://www.ehow.com/video_7524729_re...-air-condition...

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Practically no outside unit has fuses.

He had a tech there. While there are variations of skill levels I
think we can assume the tech made sure the outside unit had power.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

jamesgangnc wrote the following:
On Sep 8, 10:48 am, willshak wrote:
arkland wrote the following:





I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.
After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).
I just want the thing fixed.
There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)
The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.
Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.
I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.
I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.
But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.
Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.
Thanks and I do need your expert advice!
Start with checking the fuses on the outside unit.http://www.ehow.com/video_7524729_re...-air-condition...

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Practically no outside unit has fuses.

I guess you don't have a fuse box outside on your CAC, but I do.
Did you see the video on the link I provided?
That's not my fuse box, so I guess there is at least two units that have
outside fuse boxes.


He had a tech there. While there are variations of skill levels I
think we can assume the tech made sure the outside unit had power.


There was a sting operation by some TV company that I saw some months ago.
They had a home CAC unit completely checked by their own techs to make
sure all was working. They then disabled some small inexpensive thing
and called in several local AC techs to 'fix' the unit. The 'inspection'
by some of these 'techs' resulted in a wide range of unnecessary repair
costs, including replacing the whole unit (like in the case of the OP).
The one redeeming feature on the show was one case where the TV crew
just pulled the disconnect in the outside fuse box out a hair where it
wasn't making a connection. The last tech that arrived looked over the
unit, then went to the fuse box, saw the disconnect out a little and
pushed it back in. The AC then turned on. The cost for this 'repair'?
$000.00. Nothing! He didn't charge for his time, nor the gas used to get
to the house.
The TV crew interviewed him afterwards and he said that he didn't think
it was right to charge for doing nothing.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 8, 11:43*am, willshak wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote the following:





On Sep 8, 10:48 am, willshak wrote:
arkland wrote the following:

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.
After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).
I just want the thing fixed.
There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)
The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.
Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.
I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.
I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.
But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.
Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.
Thanks and I do need your expert advice!
Start with checking the fuses on the outside unit.http://www.ehow.com/video_7524729_re...-air-condition...

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Practically no outside unit has fuses.

I guess you don't have a fuse box outside on your CAC, but I do.
Did you see the video on the link I provided?
That's not my fuse box, so I guess there is at least two units that have
outside fuse boxes.



He had a tech there. *While there are variations of skill levels I
think we can assume the tech made sure the outside unit had power.

There was a sting operation by some TV company that I saw some months ago..
They had a home CAC unit completely checked by their own techs to make
sure all was working. They then disabled some small inexpensive thing
and called in several local AC techs to 'fix' the unit. The 'inspection'
by some of these 'techs' resulted in a wide range of unnecessary repair
costs, including replacing the whole unit (like in the case of the OP).
The one redeeming feature on the show was one case where the TV crew
just pulled the disconnect in the outside fuse box out a hair where it
wasn't making a connection. The last tech that arrived looked over the
unit, then went to the fuse box, saw the disconnect out a little and
pushed it back in. The AC then turned on. The cost for this 'repair'?
$000.00. Nothing! He didn't charge for his time, nor the gas used to get
to the house.
The TV crew interviewed him afterwards and he said that he didn't think
it was right to charge for doing nothing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Installs with fuses haven't been done for 30 years. Move on.

Yes, the hvac business always has had problems. Just like the auto
repair business. But from the op's report the guy hooked up guages
and did some troubleshooting. Is it a good idea to get a second
opinion, sure. But even decent techs are encouraged to suggest
replacement on any repair likely to be over a grand involving a unit
more than 10 years old. Sometimes it's not a bad idea depending on
other factors. It's not just for the sale result it also reduces
complaints. An older unit is more likely to have another problem not
long after the first one is fixed. Even when the two problems are
unrelated many homeowners still are unhappy and have an urge to blame
the service company.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 7, 9:27*am, arkland wrote:
Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?

Sir, or madam:

I can tell by the way you wrote your post that this is all WAY over
your head. You clearly do not even have a basic idea how a
refrigeration system works. That said, you should get at least two
more opinions from reputable professionals before deciding what to
have THEM do.

Refrigeration is not a DIY thing unless you do that kind of work
professionally. Obviously you do not, so you are lacking the proper
(EXPENSIVE) tools to deal with the system properly.

FYI, the "freon R22" is the refrigerant, which is compressed by the
compressor. If you yank out the compressor you will lose what freon is
still in the system. R22 is hazardous to you and the environment. It
is also VERY VERY VERY expensive because they are not making any more.
To properly service your AC unit the R22 needs to be removed with a
special set of valves and a special vacuum pump.

By the time you buy all the proper tools for this ONE TIME use, you
may as well pay the professional. Normal humans cannot purchase R22
anyway; only licensed professionals.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 8, 12:01*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Sep 8, 11:43*am, willshak wrote:





jamesgangnc wrote the following:

On Sep 8, 10:48 am, willshak wrote:
arkland wrote the following:

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.
After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central air
conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost $100 for a
service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me on an entirely
new A/C *(new outside unit, inside evaporator, and lines).
I just want the thing fixed.
There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) *=== he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)
The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.
Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but he
did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace the
whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.
I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.
I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor & controller
and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.
But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.
Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.
Thanks and I do need your expert advice!
Start with checking the fuses on the outside unit.http://www.ehow.com/video_7524729_re...-air-condition...

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Practically no outside unit has fuses.

I guess you don't have a fuse box outside on your CAC, but I do.
Did you see the video on the link I provided?
That's not my fuse box, so I guess there is at least two units that have
outside fuse boxes.

He had a tech there. *While there are variations of skill levels I
think we can assume the tech made sure the outside unit had power.

There was a sting operation by some TV company that I saw some months ago.
They had a home CAC unit completely checked by their own techs to make
sure all was working. They then disabled some small inexpensive thing
and called in several local AC techs to 'fix' the unit. The 'inspection'
by some of these 'techs' resulted in a wide range of unnecessary repair
costs, including replacing the whole unit (like in the case of the OP).
The one redeeming feature on the show was one case where the TV crew
just pulled the disconnect in the outside fuse box out a hair where it
wasn't making a connection. The last tech that arrived looked over the
unit, then went to the fuse box, saw the disconnect out a little and
pushed it back in. The AC then turned on. The cost for this 'repair'?
$000.00. Nothing! He didn't charge for his time, nor the gas used to get
to the house.
The TV crew interviewed him afterwards and he said that he didn't think
it was right to charge for doing nothing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Installs with fuses haven't been done for 30 years. *Move on.

That's a bit dismissive, isn't it. I don't think they've been
used in a long time either, but that doesn't mean they
are practically non-existent. There are still a lot of old
systems out there. I had one that used fuses that I
just replaced last year. Also, not only does willshak's
video have fuses, but also the one in Phoenix that
Dateline used for their sting did as well.




Yes, the hvac business always has had problems. *Just like the auto
repair business. *But from the op's report the guy hooked up guages
and did some troubleshooting.

Which unfortunately doesn't mean he's not a scammer.
Did you see the Dateline video? One scammer did
hook up gauges, the other did not even check for
power at the unit.




*Is it a good idea to get a second
opinion, sure. *But even decent techs are encouraged to suggest
replacement on any repair likely to be over a grand involving a unit
more than 10 years old. *Sometimes it's not a bad idea depending on
other factors. *It's not just for the sale result it also reduces
complaints. *An older unit is more likely to have another problem not
long after the first one is fixed. *Even when the two problems are
unrelated many homeowners still are unhappy and have an urge to blame
the service company.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think we all agree that it's perfectly fine to tell
someone that a needed repair will cost $1000+
and it's better to get a whole new unit. It's
another thing where they scam you and claim
the unit is shot, when it's actually working perfectly
like in the Dateline sting.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:51:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Installs with fuses haven't been done for 30 years. *Move on.

That's a bit dismissive, isn't it. I don't think they've been
used in a long time either, but that doesn't mean they
are practically non-existent. There are still a lot of old
systems out there. I had one that used fuses that I
just replaced last year. Also, not only does willshak's
video have fuses, but also the one in Phoenix that
Dateline used for their sting did as well.

Last year my disconnect box had to moved (obviously a drive-by
inspection when the house was built). The box just had the pull-out
piece, without fuses.

With the new box installed, the disconnect now has fuses. I was
surprised by the use of fuses. Passed inspection on the permit.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 06:46:30 -0700, wrote:

There is also a lot we don't know. Like how old the unit is
Built in 2001

how much you use it
Only on hot days. Which is about once a week (on average).

how long you intend to stay there
Long term, whatever that means.

what shape the furnace or air handler is in, etc.
Good. AFAIK.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:09:25 +0000, Red Green wrote:
First, confirm it's broke.

I had a long conversation with the repair guy's boss:
- It has probably a bad bimetallic switch which is INSIDE (they say) the
hermetically sealed compressor.
- That switch may have been blown by the power surge (he said he can't
tell).
- He said he banged on it with a mallet to no avail.
- He said the voltage was within 5% at the compressor (i.e., good).
- He said he couldn't 'run' the compressor so he couldn't get pressure
readings of the R22 but that he should have seen liquid but didn't. (He
was iffy on what that actually meant.)
- He said the controller was good (it worked when he set the thermostat
to cool), as was the capacitor (it didn't have any bulges).

So, what's wrong, is the compressor.

What I guess I need to do is find someone who will replace the compressor
for less than it costs for a brand new system!

Note: I already bought a new capacitor ($12) and controller ($45) just by
way of maintenance. They are plug and play.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:53:25 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:

You can't confirm a compressor is bad just because it has voltage at the
compressor terminals.

Hmmm... That's what the service tech said. He said the voltage was good,
but even a whack with a mallet didn't start the compressor (I'm not
making this up even though that sounds strange).


There is a run cap and possibly a start cap.

I have the old cap and the new cap in my hand.

It's fist sized, with three terminals on top, one marked "G", the other
"HERM", and the third "FAN".

The parts counter guy said if the cap it bad, it will look bulged. Mine
looked fine; but, of course, I didn't test it.

It's also possible to get more life out
of a compressor that wants to strat but can't by adding a hard start
kit.

Tell me more!

You can tell if it's trying to start by pushing in the large relay
(called a contactor in the hvac business) and listening.

I also bought a new contactor (it's on order) but the old one, while
pitted, was still working. It moved in and out with an audible click and
visible motion. But there was NO SOUND whatsoever from the compressor;
and the fan didn't go on either.

I wonder why the fan won't go on?

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:16:29 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Google it.
http://www.transtaracsupply.com/cope...mpressors.html

Nice link. I found out more from talking to Copeland, now Emerson.

Copeland Technical Support (937-498-3926) told me that the motor is
definitely available. They said the third section of my part number
(i.e., the "270" in CR32K6-PFV-270) is merely the "BOM", which they said
is meaningless from the standpoint of replacing it.

They said the second part of the triad, the PFV, is merely the voltage.

So, they say, the important part is the first set of numbers.

They provided two distributors to call in my area:
RSD 408-297-9453
Baker 408-436-4950

The first can get it, but, they changed the part number from:
CR32K6-PFV-270 == discontinued in favor of CR32K6-PFV-970

So I called Copeland back, and they confirm that the CR32K6-PFV-970 is
right.

Calling the second, they can only get the CR33KQ-PFV-980WB, so I have a
call into Copeland to see if 'that' part number is kosher.

Meanwhile, I find the local distributors a
- Marcone 408-275-9951 -- don't have access to it
- Appliance Parts 408-977-0404 --- they can get it
- North Air 408-286-9850 --- they can only get the CR33KQ6-PFV
- Slakey Bros 408-494-0460 -- they can only get the CR32K6-PFV-870

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

Meanwhile ... I'll start looking up a second service company to get a
second opinion.

Thanks for all your help. I'm learning that the information is a bit hard
to come by ... but it's out there.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

You can't confirm a compressor is bad just because it has
voltage at the
compressor terminals.

Hmmm... That's what the service tech said. He said the
voltage was good,
but even a whack with a mallet didn't start the compressor
(I'm not
making this up even though that sounds strange).

CY: Need, also, to check the start cap.

There is a run cap and possibly a start cap.

I have the old cap and the new cap in my hand.

It's fist sized, with three terminals on top, one marked
"G", the other
"HERM", and the third "FAN".

CY: The odd one is C, for common.

The parts counter guy said if the cap it bad, it will look
bulged. Mine
looked fine; but, of course, I didn't test it.

CY: Many go bad, and not be bulged.

It's also possible to get more life out
of a compressor that wants to strat but can't by adding a
hard start
kit.

Tell me more!

CY: Buy kit, follow directions.

You can tell if it's trying to start by pushing in the
large relay
(called a contactor in the hvac business) and listening.

I also bought a new contactor (it's on order) but the old
one, while
pitted, was still working. It moved in and out with an
audible click and
visible motion. But there was NO SOUND whatsoever from the
compressor;
and the fan didn't go on either.

CY: I presume while you had the capacitor out?

I wonder why the fan won't go on?

CY: Needs run capacitor.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

Yeah, the fraternity knows there is wholesale, and retail.
You are aparently talking to wholesale guys.

The parts houses also have different levels of pricing. The
part that cost a high volume dealer $200 might cost me $300
if I only buy there now and again.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"arkland" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:16:29 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Google it.

http://www.transtaracsupply.com/cope...mpressors.html

Nice link. I found out more from talking to Copeland, now
Emerson.

Copeland Technical Support (937-498-3926) told me that the
motor is
definitely available. They said the third section of my part
number
(i.e., the "270" in CR32K6-PFV-270) is merely the "BOM",
which they said
is meaningless from the standpoint of replacing it.

They said the second part of the triad, the PFV, is merely
the voltage.

So, they say, the important part is the first set of
numbers.

They provided two distributors to call in my area:
RSD 408-297-9453
Baker 408-436-4950

The first can get it, but, they changed the part number
from:
CR32K6-PFV-270 == discontinued in favor of CR32K6-PFV-970

So I called Copeland back, and they confirm that the
CR32K6-PFV-970 is
right.

Calling the second, they can only get the CR33KQ-PFV-980WB,
so I have a
call into Copeland to see if 'that' part number is kosher.

Meanwhile, I find the local distributors a
- Marcone 408-275-9951 -- don't have access to it
- Appliance Parts 408-977-0404 --- they can get it
- North Air 408-286-9850 --- they can only get the
CR33KQ6-PFV
- Slakey Bros 408-494-0460 -- they can only get the
CR32K6-PFV-870

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all
first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I
should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of
them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

Meanwhile ... I'll start looking up a second service company
to get a
second opinion.

Thanks for all your help. I'm learning that the information
is a bit hard
to come by ... but it's out there.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

Emerson (aka Copeland) technical support (937-498-3926)just called me
back with MORE information.

Even though it was 5:30am my time, I was glad to field the call.

He explained the "270", in the CR32K6-PFV-270 single-phase compressor, is
merely the "bill of materials", and the 200-series was for the OEM's of
the air conditioning unit itself (where 270 is Haier American who sold to
Amana).

He said that's 100% equivalent to the CR32K6-PFV-970, where the 900
series is for wholesale distributors (i.e., what I would want to buy).

Similarly, the CR32K6-PFV-875 is the same compressor with a different
molded plug; again, it would work and is apparently ubiquitously found.

For completeness, he said the 500 series was for overseas.

More importantly, he said the fan has nothing to do with the AC
compressor so he suggested something else must be amiss.

He also said to not only check voltage, but to check voltage AT the
compressor itself, particularly there should be 230VAC between the Common
and Run coils.

More importantly, he said to check the resistance & he provided the specs:
1. Start to Common = 3.20 ohms +/- 7%
2. Run to Common = 0.75 ohsm +/- 7%
3. Start to Run = Add those two up (I guess then the error would be +/-
1.4%)

Lastly, he postulated only one of three things is the real problem:
a) Open windings (the resistance test will determine that)
b) No power to the compressor (must remove cover off the terminal box at
the compressor itself & pull the wires off the compressor to test at this
point!)
c) Compressor is locked up

So, even though I had scheduled a visit by another company (who said they
don't like people looking over their shoulders), I think I'll tell them
to wait a day and I'll check it out myself.

Oh, BTW, he said a brownout usually causes the bimetallic strip to
overheat but it generally doesn't fail unless it's kept that way for a
long long time. He does not think it's that.

He did say the power surge 'could' blow the motor - but he didn't offer
any way to tell for sure.

I do thank you all for your kind help and I appreciate that you don't
have to help me. Now it's time for me to do some homework!

PS: He said the fan should have gone on nonetheless so he would suspect a
power problem.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

So, even though I had scheduled a visit by another company (who said
they
don't like people looking over their shoulders...


I've done electrical and electronic repair work and would have no
problem with anyone looking over my shoulders. But then I am honest
and have nothing to hide...

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 8, 4:56*pm, arkland wrote:
Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

In California it may very well be against the law for an unlicensed
person to work on that kind of stuff... They have some pretty whacked-
out laws about environmental protection, and older refrigerants like
R22 are pretty nasty to the environment.

Now stop wasting money on the parts shotgun, and get a pro in to fix
it. Either that or suffer in the heat.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 9, 11:39*am, wrote:
On Sep 8, 4:56*pm, arkland wrote:

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

In California it may very well be against the law for an unlicensed
person to work on that kind of stuff... They have some pretty whacked-
out laws about environmental protection, and older refrigerants like
R22 are pretty nasty to the environment.

Now stop wasting money on the parts shotgun, and get a pro in to fix
it. Either that or suffer in the heat.

I agree. By the time you finish you will have spent more money
replacing perfectly good parts than it would cost you to have a
competent service guy fix it. Ask your neighbors or relatives who
they have had good experieces with. Or use angies list.

You don't have any of the equipment needed to work on this stuff
anyway. At a minumum you need a good meter and a set of guages. To
replace anything involving the refrigerant you need a vacuum pump and
a recovery tank too.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

arkland wrote in
:

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern
California.

After a power outage, the compressor in a small outside Amana central
air conditioning unit (circa 2001) wouldn't turn on. I paid almost
$100 for a service call, and the guy the whole time tried to sell me
on an entirely new A/C (new outside unit, inside evaporator, and
lines).

I just want the thing fixed.

There are apparently only a few parts (all but two are 'good'):
* freon R22 === he says he got no liquid reading
* compressor (outside) === he says this is bad
* fan (outside)
* capacitor (outside)
* controller (outside)
* cooling coils (outside)
* fuses & circuit breakers (outside)
* evaporator coils (inside)
* house blower (inside)
* thermostat switch (inside)

The cooling was working fine before the power outage. But the A/C
wouldn't go on afterward.

Seems to me he can't blame both the freon R22 and the compressor - but
he did. Then he said it would cost $2800 to fix or $3800 to replace
the whole thing. He was selling me on the whole thing, of course.

I just want the compressor and, if needed, the freon R22.

I called Amana, who has the compressor for $500. They discontinued the
parts for the capacitor ($12) and controller ($47) but I'm told that I
can second source them. I've already removed the capacitor &
controller and will replace (pictures available upon request) them.

But, my question stems around the compressor and freon R22.

Will it really cost $2800 to replace a compressor?
I don't suppose I can do it myself - but what do you think?
Note: I will have to pay for a second opinion but I was hoping to get
your advice before I do that.

Thanks and I do need your expert advice!



Where are you located in CA? Possibly someone can suggest a competent
honest company from experience.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

Sounds like a real learning experience, for you. Please
treat electricity with caution.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"arkland" wrote in message
...
Emerson (aka Copeland) technical support (937-498-3926)just
called me
back with MORE information.

Even though it was 5:30am my time, I was glad to field the
call.

He explained the "270", in the CR32K6-PFV-270 single-phase
compressor, is
merely the "bill of materials", and the 200-series was for
the OEM's of
the air conditioning unit itself (where 270 is Haier
American who sold to
Amana).

He said that's 100% equivalent to the CR32K6-PFV-970, where
the 900
series is for wholesale distributors (i.e., what I would
want to buy).

Similarly, the CR32K6-PFV-875 is the same compressor with a
different
molded plug; again, it would work and is apparently
ubiquitously found.

For completeness, he said the 500 series was for overseas.

More importantly, he said the fan has nothing to do with the
AC
compressor so he suggested something else must be amiss.

He also said to not only check voltage, but to check voltage
AT the
compressor itself, particularly there should be 230VAC
between the Common
and Run coils.

More importantly, he said to check the resistance & he
provided the specs:
1. Start to Common = 3.20 ohms +/- 7%
2. Run to Common = 0.75 ohsm +/- 7%
3. Start to Run = Add those two up (I guess then the error
would be +/-
1.4%)

Lastly, he postulated only one of three things is the real
problem:
a) Open windings (the resistance test will determine that)
b) No power to the compressor (must remove cover off the
terminal box at
the compressor itself & pull the wires off the compressor to
test at this
point!)
c) Compressor is locked up

So, even though I had scheduled a visit by another company
(who said they
don't like people looking over their shoulders), I think
I'll tell them
to wait a day and I'll check it out myself.

Oh, BTW, he said a brownout usually causes the bimetallic
strip to
overheat but it generally doesn't fail unless it's kept that
way for a
long long time. He does not think it's that.

He did say the power surge 'could' blow the motor - but he
didn't offer
any way to tell for sure.

I do thank you all for your kind help and I appreciate that
you don't
have to help me. Now it's time for me to do some homework!

PS: He said the fan should have gone on nonetheless so he
would suspect a
power problem.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

Bill wrote:
So, even though I had scheduled a visit by another company (who said they
don't like people looking over their shoulders...


I've done electrical and electronic repair work and would have no
problem with anyone looking over my shoulders. But then I am honest and
have nothing to hide...


I agree, anyone who objects to you watching should not be hired. He is
either afraid you might know when he is lying, or he really doesn't know
his stuff.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 9, 12:02*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Sep 9, 11:39*am, wrote:

On Sep 8, 4:56*pm, arkland wrote:

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

In California it may very well be against the law for an unlicensed
person to work on that kind of stuff... They have some pretty whacked-
out laws about environmental protection, and older refrigerants like
R22 are pretty nasty to the environment.

Not just California. Per EPA regulations, it's illegal for
anyone to work on that AC system without being licensed.
That includes the homeowner.




Now stop wasting money on the parts shotgun, and get a pro in to fix
it. Either that or suffer in the heat.

I agree. *By the time you finish you will have spent more money
replacing perfectly good parts than it would cost you to have a
competent service guy fix it. *Ask your neighbors or relatives who
they have had good experieces with. * Or use angies list.

You don't have any of the equipment needed to work on this stuff
anyway. *At a minumum you need a good meter and a set of guages. *To
replace anything involving the refrigerant you need a vacuum pump and
a recovery tank too.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 9, 4:23*pm, "
wrote:
On Sep 9, 12:02*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Sep 9, 11:39*am, wrote:

On Sep 8, 4:56*pm, arkland wrote:

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

In California it may very well be against the law for an unlicensed
person to work on that kind of stuff... They have some pretty whacked-
out laws about environmental protection, and older refrigerants like
R22 are pretty nasty to the environment.

Not just California. *Per EPA regulations, it's illegal for
anyone to work on that AC system without being licensed.
That includes the homeowner.





Now stop wasting money on the parts shotgun, and get a pro in to fix
it. Either that or suffer in the heat.

I agree. *By the time you finish you will have spent more money
replacing perfectly good parts than it would cost you to have a
competent service guy fix it. *Ask your neighbors or relatives who
they have had good experieces with. * Or use angies list.

You don't have any of the equipment needed to work on this stuff
anyway. *At a minumum you need a good meter and a set of guages. *To
replace anything involving the refrigerant you need a vacuum pump and
a recovery tank too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not a license and it's only required to charge or recover the
refrigerant. The epa does not care if you replace a cap or the
contactor yourself or have a service guy do it. And the basic
certificate is fairly simply to get. I got one so I could service my
own units.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Sep 10, 8:50*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Sep 9, 4:23*pm, "
wrote:





On Sep 9, 12:02*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Sep 9, 11:39*am, wrote:

On Sep 8, 4:56*pm, arkland wrote:

Whew! I'm realizing there is a 'fraternity' because they all first ask
for my company (and I'm just a person). I'm not sure if I should lie, but
I've been telling them the truth - so absolutely none of them will sell
it to me nor will they give me a price.

In California it may very well be against the law for an unlicensed
person to work on that kind of stuff... They have some pretty whacked-
out laws about environmental protection, and older refrigerants like
R22 are pretty nasty to the environment.

Not just California. *Per EPA regulations, it's illegal for
anyone to work on that AC system without being licensed.
That includes the homeowner.

Now stop wasting money on the parts shotgun, and get a pro in to fix
it. Either that or suffer in the heat.

I agree. *By the time you finish you will have spent more money
replacing perfectly good parts than it would cost you to have a
competent service guy fix it. *Ask your neighbors or relatives who
they have had good experieces with. * Or use angies list.

You don't have any of the equipment needed to work on this stuff
anyway. *At a minumum you need a good meter and a set of guages. *To
replace anything involving the refrigerant you need a vacuum pump and
a recovery tank too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not a license and it's only required to charge or recover the
refrigerant.

OK, technically it's called "certification", meaning you've taken
the required training and passed a test. Does it really matter
if it's called a license or certification? And it covers any
work that could result in release of refrigerant, including just
hooking up gauges, which is one of the most basic
service checks.


*The epa does not care if you replace a cap or the
contactor yourself or have a service guy do it. *And the basic
certificate is fairly simply to get. *I got one so I could service my
own units.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree you can replace the cap or the contactor. But clearly the
discussion taken in context mentioned the issues that prohibit the
typical homeowner from working on their own
system and R22 was specifically mentioned. It was in that
context that I formed my reply.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 05:50:00 -0700, jamesgangnc wrote:

And the basic certificate is fairly simply to get.
I got one so I could service my own units.

It's September. I'm going to look for a class, for the future, in one of
those 'night schools' for adults!

Can't be any harder than scuba diving.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:27:48 +0000, arkland wrote:

I need our advice about my air conditioning unit in northern California.

I'm embarrassed to report back this repair isn't completed yet, but, I
will say it took a completely different turn today.

I brought the "heater" core from the bottom of the compressor into three
different AC appliance parts warehouses today, and, while two didn't know
what it was, the third explained that it's for heating the oil that falls
cold to the bottom of the compressor during disuse.

While there, the counter guy showed me a similar 2 1/2 ton system that
had similar components. While we were discussing what could be wrong (he
didn't think it was the compressor), we mentioned that the power was 120V
to one side and 120V to the other but zero volts between the two.

I checked it again today, and got (weirdly) different readings of 120 vac
on one side, and 28 vac on the other hot wire at the fuse.

So I went to the circuit breaker in the main panel, and lo and behold,
120vac on one leg with 28 vac on the other leg!

Removing the wire from the circuit breaker I got 120vac from one side and
0vac on the other.

So, it appears, the problem was, after all, that the PG&E power outage
(brownout) damaged the 30 amp ganged circuit breaker.

Unfortunately, this circuit breaker is 'wired' (with a copper wire) to 3
others, all 30 amps (the other two for the dryer), but I was able to
find, after visiting quite a few electrical supply houses, a quad 30 amp
circuit breaker to fit into the panel (since the panel is otherwise full
so it couldn't take two separate 220v 30 amp circuit breakers).

Unfortunately, the bus bar is too thick for the circuit breaker, so I'll
have to go back tomorrow and get one that has a wider opening. But, I'm
confident that this is the real problem.

If so (and I'll let you know), then the AC company that checked it out
first were lying cheats since they said that the voltage was within 5% of
what it should be.

It wasn't even 50% of what it should be (since it was only 120 and not
220!).

Now I'm really mad at the company - but first - I have to see if the new
circuit breaker (30 amp x 4, in two gangs) will fit on the bus bar which
is thicker than the opening.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:43:39 +0000, arkland wrote:
Now I'm really mad at the company - but first - I have to see if the new
circuit breaker (30 amp x 4, in two gangs) will fit on the bus bar which
is thicker than the opening.

I'm steaming mad. Either the company I sent out was incompetent, or,
worse yet, they're lying cheats!

They tried so hard to sell me on a new A/C unit for $4000, I should have
known. They 'said' it was the 'compressor'. They 'said' the voltage "was
within 5%". Guess what?

The problem had NOTHING to do with the air conditioning! The problem was
merely that the 30-amp quad ganged circuit breaker was broken. Of the
four 30-amp 120v circuits, one was 0 volts.

When I replaced the breaker (it wasn't easy to find a 30-amp quad
breaker), everything worked just fine.

What steams me is I can't for the life of me figure out whether the air
conditioning company was lying or if they were simply incompetent!

But, I'm so mad, I want to write them a letter! What else do you suggest?

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:22:04 +0000 (UTC), arkland
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:43:39 +0000, arkland wrote:
Now I'm really mad at the company - but first - I have to see if the new
circuit breaker (30 amp x 4, in two gangs) will fit on the bus bar which
is thicker than the opening.

I'm steaming mad. Either the company I sent out was incompetent, or,
worse yet, they're lying cheats!

They tried so hard to sell me on a new A/C unit for $4000, I should have
known. They 'said' it was the 'compressor'. They 'said' the voltage "was
within 5%". Guess what?

The problem had NOTHING to do with the air conditioning! The problem was
merely that the 30-amp quad ganged circuit breaker was broken. Of the
four 30-amp 120v circuits, one was 0 volts.

When I replaced the breaker (it wasn't easy to find a 30-amp quad
breaker), everything worked just fine.

What steams me is I can't for the life of me figure out whether the air
conditioning company was lying or if they were simply incompetent!


In this case incompetence and lying is pretty much the same thing.

But, I'm so mad, I want to write them a letter! What else do you suggest?

I'd call them up and just tell them how you resolved it.
And mention that the BBB and anybody I know will hear about how they
do business. That should blow off some of your steam.
They'll probably hang up on you.
I never had this kind of problem with getting stuff fixed.
Maybe because I tell them up front I'll pay for the service call, but
if I don't like what they say I'll get somebody else in.

--Vic

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:22:04 +0000 (UTC), arkland
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:43:39 +0000, arkland wrote:
Now I'm really mad at the company - but first - I have to see if the new
circuit breaker (30 amp x 4, in two gangs) will fit on the bus bar which
is thicker than the opening.

I'm steaming mad. Either the company I sent out was incompetent, or,
worse yet, they're lying cheats!

They tried so hard to sell me on a new A/C unit for $4000, I should have
known. They 'said' it was the 'compressor'. They 'said' the voltage "was
within 5%". Guess what?

The problem had NOTHING to do with the air conditioning! The problem was
merely that the 30-amp quad ganged circuit breaker was broken. Of the
four 30-amp 120v circuits, one was 0 volts.

When I replaced the breaker (it wasn't easy to find a 30-amp quad
breaker), everything worked just fine.

What steams me is I can't for the life of me figure out whether the air
conditioning company was lying or if they were simply incompetent!

But, I'm so mad, I want to write them a letter! What else do you suggest?

Wait until you calm down. Do not write a letter while your mad.
Collect your notes, details of the events, etc., before you write
anybody.

I would at least ask for the service charge be returned. Check your
state contractor's board web site for previous complaints or perhaps
make a complaint with them.

Good luck...

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor. $4000?
 

Wear a sandwich board, and protest in front of their office
for a week?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"arkland" wrote in message
...

What steams me is I can't for the life of me figure out
whether the air
conditioning company was lying or if they were simply
incompetent!

But, I'm so mad, I want to write them a letter! What else do
you suggest?

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:38:07 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

And mention that the BBB and anybody I know will hear about how they do
business.

I looked it up and you probably meant the Better Business Bureau. I see
there is a process to file a complaint, so, I will do so (I've never
dealt with a BBB before, even though I'm an old guy).

It's not so much for me that I'm upset; what about the little old ladies
who don't know enough to realize something was amiss. These guys were
trying to take me for a ride. I can publish their name & address here,
but the better part of valor would be to formally complain to the BBB as
you suggested.

In hindsight, I feel kind of stupid though.

I took for granted that the wiring was OK (especially since they said
they "tested it to be within 5%"). So for the past 10 days, I've been
concentrating on the AC unit (learning how it works and replacing the
capacitor and controller).

I should have started with the basics, i.e., "is it plugged in", which,
(in effect) it turned out to be.

When I talk to them, I'm going to ask for a reduced bill!


I tell them up front I'll pay for the service call, but if I don't like
what they say I'll get somebody else in.

That's good advice. I think they took me for a fool, which,
embarrassingly, I was. I believed them. Next time I'll tell them to give
me a diagnosis, and if it comes with an estimate, that I'll get three
good estimates before choosing. Words to the wise.

Ouch. Outside Amana central air conditioning unit. Compressor.$4000?
 

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:29:58 -0700, Oren wrote:

I would at least ask for the service charge be returned. Check your
state contractor's board web site for previous complaints or perhaps
make a complaint with them.

I never heard of a state contractor's board. I'm in California, in Santa
Clara County. Lemme look that up...

It looks like I can file a complaint he
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/consumers/Fil...AComplaint.asp

I'm confused though as this "state contractors board" seems to be for
'new construction' only.

The company that I'm complaining about is called "Comfort Energy",
408-263-3100. http://www.comfortzone-air.com

They came recommended to me by someone I know well (who has been kept
informed of the progress all along).

I can't tell from their web site if they're a big company, but, they've
been in business since 1929 it seems and they seem to do new construction
as well as old.

I just filled out a "contact me" form at the Comfort Energy web site and
I will see what I can do about filling out a complaint at the State
Contractor's License Board site too!

Thanks for the advice. I'm embarrassed it took me this long, but, it was
partly because Comfort Energy told me the compressor was bad, so, I was
tracking down the wrong rabbit all along!