Hi all! I'm hoping to get some advice about measuring for retrofit
windows... I decided to have a handyman install my windows to save some
money over the big box stores. That means I have to measure the windows
and purchase them myself, and I'm on the hook if anything goes wrong with
the measurements.

My handyman told me that I should be measuring the window from the inside
and adding 1/2 inch to both the width and the height. At first he told me
to subtract 1/4 inch, but then he said that trim would have to be added on
the outside, and adding 1/2 inch instead would give a better-looking
result. The thing is, everything I've read says that 1/4-1/2 inch should
be subtracted from the measurements to make sure the windows fit, and that
you're in big trouble if you get windows that are too big.

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)

Thanks for any advice. I've already ordered windows that are 1/2 inch
larger than the inside measurements, so please save me if I'm about to
waste a lot of money!!

"mday83" wrote in message
roups.com...
Hi all! I'm hoping to get some advice about measuring for retrofit
windows... I decided to have a handyman install my windows to save some
money over the big box stores. That means I have to measure the windows
and purchase them myself, and I'm on the hook if anything goes wrong with
the measurements.

My handyman told me that I should be measuring the window from the inside
and adding 1/2 inch to both the width and the height. At first he told me
to subtract 1/4 inch, but then he said that trim would have to be added
on
the outside, and adding 1/2 inch instead would give a better-looking
result. The thing is, everything I've read says that 1/4-1/2 inch should
be subtracted from the measurements to make sure the windows fit, and
that
you're in big trouble if you get windows that are too big.

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)

Thanks for any advice. I've already ordered windows that are 1/2 inch
larger than the inside measurements, so please save me if I'm about to
waste a lot of money!!


LOL!!!!!!!! Please post pictures when he's done on a site. As if your post
wasn't funny enough, I'm ready for another good laugh.

P.S. What is his drink of choice? Whatever it is, it must be good.

"mday83" wrote in message
roups.com...

Hi all! I'm hoping to get some advice about measuring for retrofit
windows... I decided to have a handyman install my windows to save some
money over the big box stores.

Have you spoken to any of his previous customers? Is he insured? I think
those are rather important questions.

When we had our windows replaced by a window company that did the measuring
the windows that arrived were quite loose by intent. The idea is an extra
quarter-inch isn't going to hurt, they shim them to fit and pump all the
gaps full of foam, guaranteed for a whole bunch of years. But a window
that's too big, well other than hack away at the framing what you are going
to do?

Cancel that order and think about it a little more, the handyman-is-cheaper
route is one I rejected some time ago due to bitter experience.

"mday83" wrote

My handyman told me that I should be measuring the window from the inside
and adding 1/2 inch to both the width and the height.


So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)

There is confusion here. First is to find out what the manufacturer
recommends. I used to sell and install replacement windows years ago and
every manufacturer had an instruction sheet on how to measure and how to
order.

What the handy guy told you is probably correct if you are measuring inside
the stops. If you are measuring inside the casing, he is wrong.

If you have typical double hung sash windows, there is a trim strip around
the inside. that will be removed, the sashes taken out, the new window put
in place. It must fit inside that opening. The window must be order with a
dimension less than the opening, of course. Then the trim strip can be put
back and everything looks pretty.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:50:48 +0000, mday83
wrote:

Hi all! I'm hoping to get some advice about measuring for retrofit
windows... I decided to have a handyman install my windows to save some
money over the big box stores. That means I have to measure the windows
and purchase them myself, and I'm on the hook if anything goes wrong with
the measurements.

My handyman told me that I should be measuring the window from the inside
and adding 1/2 inch to both the width and the height. At first he told me
to subtract 1/4 inch, but then he said that trim would have to be added on
the outside, and adding 1/2 inch instead would give a better-looking
result. The thing is, everything I've read says that 1/4-1/2 inch should
be subtracted from the measurements to make sure the windows fit, and that
you're in big trouble if you get windows that are too big.

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)

Thanks for any advice. I've already ordered windows that are 1/2 inch
larger than the inside measurements, so please save me if I'm about to
waste a lot of money!!


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.
Determine what jam width you need - what the measurement from the
external siding to the inside finish plaster is, and whether you need
a "brick mold" or not. You may also have an option of having the "j
mold" I think it is called - that normally nails to the sheathing
before the siding is installed or not. If they only come "with" they
are not hard to remove..
If you cannot get the proper jam size. wood jams are easy to
add/adjust

wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced also,
or insulated windows used for replacement.

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ws-645518-.htm
mday83 wrote:
In the end I had the handyman come out and re-measure the windows. The
order is in now, so I sure hope they're the right size. Thanks for the
advice, everyone.

DGDevin wrote:

"mday83" wrote in message
roups.com...

Hi all! I'm hoping to get some advice about measuring for retrofit
windows... I decided to have a handyman install my windows to save
some
money over the big box stores.

Have you spoken to any of his previous customers? Is he insured? I
think
those are rather important questions.

When we had our windows replaced by a window company that did the
measuring
the windows that arrived were quite loose by intent. The idea is an
extra
quarter-inch isn't going to hurt, they shim them to fit and pump all
the
gaps full of foam, guaranteed for a whole bunch of years. But a window

that's too big, well other than hack away at the framing what you are
going
to do?

Cancel that order and think about it a little more, the
handyman-is-cheaper
route is one I rejected some time ago due to bitter experience.




-------------------------------------

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:30:41 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced also,
or insulated windows used for replacement.
After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

mday83 wrote:
In the end I had the handyman come out and re-measure the windows. The
order is in now, so I sure hope they're the right size. Thanks for the
advice, everyone.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hopefully everything will go well.

On 8/13/2011 8:30 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced
also, or insulated windows used for replacement.

Agreed, and this is why all the DIY books tell people to have the guy
doing the install do the measuring- that way boo-boos are on his head. I
grew up in new construction, so I think in terms of RO. I'll note that
'new construction' windows may not be appropriate, since the nailer
flange will run into the brick or siding. Unless jambs are rotted, sash
kits or the slightly smaller retrofit windows that screw into old jamb,
are usually much less of a PITA. Note well the hazards of the 'coil
stock' outside trim overlay wrap, though- when (not if) the wrap leaks,
it will put water in the wall and rot the hidden wood. You have to keep
the caulking on the seams in perfect condition. I've seen many older
houses where the siding and trim skin job on the outside caused
thousands of dollars of water damage.

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 16:06:25 -0400, wrote:


After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

Depends on how you do it,
I had every window in my house replaced about 5 years ago.
24 I think. $4400.
Replaced the wood double-hungs with vinyl retrofits.
Those windows were nagging me for glazing and paint for years.
Glad I put it off working on them.
Now I don't even think about them except good thoughts.
No maintenance at all. Haven't even washed them yet.
You're right about ending with a smaller window unless you change the
window type.
You lose a few inches in the rail slides with double-hung.
At my wife's insistence we went with crank-outs.
I wanted dougle-hungs.
She was right. Ended up with much more light and much less dirt
collection surface.
Basement swing-ups were replaced with sliders.
All are MUCH better at insulating and the drafts are gone.
No more jamming triple track storms either. Gone.
The 2 guys who did the job worked in the window plant and got them
cheap.
And other family had used them. That's a big deal. You don't want a
crap shoot like the OP is doing.
They sheathed all jambs and outside wood with aluminum.
Best $4400 I ever spent.
If you DIY you need a press for the sheathing unless you're still
painting frames.
This is something that deserves serious thought.
I didn't jump in until I had all the facts.

--Vic

wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:30:41 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced also,
or insulated windows used for replacement.
After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

I see the typical installer doing a fast job. By retrofit in my case, I
gutted everything.
I also extend most outward so I would have large windowsills for the cats.
And room to put things on. I had a cheap job done at the old house, and
they covered my marble sills too much. Could not even sit a fan on sill.
Extending the window outward on my brick house required me using side
panels and foam insulation, each window is at least a 4 hour job. I
installed 6 double hung and so far 3 sliders.
Well one slider was a new installation, cinder block, dust, dust, dust.
That was more than 4 hours!!

I have to order full sized screens, especially the sliders, because stink
bugs crawl in on an open window.

gregz wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:30:41 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced also,
or insulated windows used for replacement.
After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

I see the typical installer doing a fast job. By retrofit in my case, I
gutted everything.
I also extend most outward so I would have large windowsills for the cats.
And room to put things on. I had a cheap job done at the old house, and
they covered my marble sills too much. Could not even sit a fan on sill.
Extending the window outward on my brick house required me using side
panels and foam insulation, each window is at least a 4 hour job. I
installed 6 double hung and so far 3 sliders.
Well one slider was a new installation, cinder block, dust, dust, dust.
That was more than 4 hours!!

I have to order full sized screens, especially the sliders, because stink
bugs crawl in on an open window.

Another thing, I get very annoyed at my double hung half screens. What good
is double hung if you can't open both top and bottom to get that flow going
on.

Greg

"gregz" wrote

Another thing, I get very annoyed at my double hung half screens. What
good
is double hung if you can't open both top and bottom to get that flow
going
on.

Greg

Is that why my wife always says "I wish you were double hung?"

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 17:12:47 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 8/13/2011 8:30 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

So, is this guy crazy?? Is it okay to have retrofit windows that are 1/2
inch larger than the inside opening? (Sorry if I'm using incorrect terms
here - I'm not too knowledgeable about windows.)


Are all the windows in the house the same type/manufacture?

If so, remove the inside trim from one window. Measure the OUTSIDE
dimensions of the window from inside the house, and compare them to
the INSIDE dimensions of the same window. If the outside dimension is
34 X 60 inches and the inside is 32X57 (WxH), you need to add 2
inches to the inside width measurement, and 3" to the inside height
measurement, and give that measurement to the window company,
requesting a window "of that external size" - NOT for that "rough
opening" - and order "new construction" or "frame out" windows.

This adds to the confusion. You are correct about new windows, but he is
talking about retrofit widows. I take that as the ones that replace the
sashes, but the original frame remains in place. Everything is done from
inside, you never even touch the storm window unless that is replaced
also, or insulated windows used for replacement.

Agreed, and this is why all the DIY books tell people to have the guy
doing the install do the measuring- that way boo-boos are on his head. I
grew up in new construction, so I think in terms of RO. I'll note that
'new construction' windows may not be appropriate, since the nailer
flange will run into the brick or siding. Unless jambs are rotted, sash
kits or the slightly smaller retrofit windows that screw into old jamb,
are usually much less of a PITA. Note well the hazards of the 'coil
stock' outside trim overlay wrap, though- when (not if) the wrap leaks,
it will put water in the wall and rot the hidden wood. You have to keep
the caulking on the seams in perfect condition. I've seen many older
houses where the siding and trim skin job on the outside caused
thousands of dollars of water damage.

Which is why I'd NEVER install retrofits and cap the old windows. I've
seen WAY too much go wrong that way.
"New Construction" windows can generally be ordered without the nailer
flange - at least they could be from all the suppliers both window
companies I worked for dealt with (Fenergic, Euro-vinyl, Bonneville -
among others)

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 19:18:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 16:06:25 -0400, wrote:


After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

Depends on how you do it,
I had every window in my house replaced about 5 years ago.
24 I think. $4400.
Replaced the wood double-hungs with vinyl retrofits.
Those windows were nagging me for glazing and paint for years.
Glad I put it off working on them.
Now I don't even think about them except good thoughts.
No maintenance at all. Haven't even washed them yet.
You're right about ending with a smaller window unless you change the
window type.
You lose a few inches in the rail slides with double-hung.
At my wife's insistence we went with crank-outs.
I wanted dougle-hungs.
She was right. Ended up with much more light and much less dirt
collection surface.
Basement swing-ups were replaced with sliders.
All are MUCH better at insulating and the drafts are gone.
No more jamming triple track storms either. Gone.
The 2 guys who did the job worked in the window plant and got them
cheap.
And other family had used them. That's a big deal. You don't want a
crap shoot like the OP is doing.
They sheathed all jambs and outside wood with aluminum.
Best $4400 I ever spent.
If you DIY you need a press for the sheathing unless you're still
painting frames.
This is something that deserves serious thought.
I didn't jump in until I had all the facts.

--Vic
And by the time the old jams are sheathed, a good installer could have
pulled them and done a "frame out" for the same price - no aluminum
capping required. And a better job when it was all done.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:54:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"gregz" wrote

Another thing, I get very annoyed at my double hung half screens. What
good
is double hung if you can't open both top and bottom to get that flow
going
on.

Greg

Is that why my wife always says "I wish you were double hung?"

Quality replacement double hungs and sliders come with full screens.
Single hungs too.

On 8/14/2011 5:29 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:54:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote

Another thing, I get very annoyed at my double hung half screens. What
good
is double hung if you can't open both top and bottom to get that flow
going
on.

Greg

Is that why my wife always says "I wish you were double hung?"

Quality replacement double hungs and sliders come with full screens.
Single hungs too.

Wish I woulda checked that, when I bought the one new storm window after
I blacksmithed all the storm windows when I moved in here, and came up
short one glass panel. The cheap box-store replacement only has one
movable pane.

I was feeling kinda poor after the closing costs when I bought this
place, and reputtying the 1960 builder-grade singe-pane double hungs,
and sorta-fixing the triple-track storms, was supposed to be a temporary
work-around until I could save up for new windows. But that was five
years ago, and it improved things so much, I never felt inclined to
spend that big a chunk of cash that I would never get back at resale. I
probably should replace the storms, and pull the interior casings and
foam-fill the cavities, though.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 17:26:49 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 19:18:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 16:06:25 -0400, wrote:


After having worked for 2 largish window replacement companies over
the years, I wouldn't even CONSIDER those retrofit windows.You still
need to paint all the exterior framing, the windows are smaller than
you would get with frame out, the installation labour can be a small
savings - but in my opinion not worth it - you still have the leaky
old window frames you had to start with, half the time the jams are
rotting (or rotten)

All in all, a Half Assed job when you are done.

Depends on how you do it,
I had every window in my house replaced about 5 years ago.
24 I think. $4400.
Replaced the wood double-hungs with vinyl retrofits.
Those windows were nagging me for glazing and paint for years.
Glad I put it off working on them.
Now I don't even think about them except good thoughts.
No maintenance at all. Haven't even washed them yet.
You're right about ending with a smaller window unless you change the
window type.
You lose a few inches in the rail slides with double-hung.
At my wife's insistence we went with crank-outs.
I wanted dougle-hungs.
She was right. Ended up with much more light and much less dirt
collection surface.
Basement swing-ups were replaced with sliders.
All are MUCH better at insulating and the drafts are gone.
No more jamming triple track storms either. Gone.
The 2 guys who did the job worked in the window plant and got them
cheap.
And other family had used them. That's a big deal. You don't want a
crap shoot like the OP is doing.
They sheathed all jambs and outside wood with aluminum.
Best $4400 I ever spent.
If you DIY you need a press for the sheathing unless you're still
painting frames.
This is something that deserves serious thought.
I didn't jump in until I had all the facts.

--Vic
And by the time the old jams are sheathed, a good installer could have
pulled them and done a "frame out" for the same price - no aluminum
capping required. And a better job when it was all done.

That's nonsense. You know nothing about my house, condition of my
window frames/sills, the work quality of the installers, retrofit
versus new construction window costs here, final appearance etc.
And "frame out" for the same price is just ridiculous.
Silly too, like pulling a car engine because the tires are flat.
Not saying which way to go for everyone, as you are, just what worked
for me.
BTW, my house is brick and all the window frames and sills were solid.
And the retrofits look real good to us.
Double-hung retros wouldn't look right and would have reduced light,
the crank-outs increased it.
I scoped all this out when I did it.
That's what anybody should do.
No regrets at all.

--Vic