Odd toilet leak problem here for anyone who wants to take a shot at a hard
to diagnose condition.

Symptom:
Toilet tank leaks into bowl, causing very frequent (every 15 minutes or
so) top ups of the tank. The leak is really bad; in reflective light,
water in bowl ripples noticeably after tank finishes filling.

The tank is not overfilling, water is not entering the bowl via the
overflow tube.

Obvious likely cause is the flapper. Replaced. Problem persists,
unchanged.

Next. Using gently duty scrunge, clean seal that flapper seats into.
Problem persists, unchanged.

Next. Try light coat of plumbers grease on flapper and seal. Problem
persists, unchanged. Try heavy coat of plumbers grease on flapper and
seal. Problem persists, unchanged.

Carefully inspect fill tube to be sure it is not cracked and leaking from
tank into bowl. No cracks or seepage found.

The last possible cause (leaving out cracked porcelain) is the rubber seal
between the tank and the bowl.

I worked a lot of overtime this week, and I haven't had time to make
another parts run and remove the tank.

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

Here is where it gets weired. When the tank fills slowly through the
leaking water supply manual shut off, the tank does not leak into the
bowl. No leak at all.

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or at
a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

On 7/17/2011 11:07 AM, Tony Sivori wrote:
Odd toilet leak problem here for anyone who wants to take a shot at a hard
to diagnose condition.

Symptom:
Toilet tank leaks into bowl, causing very frequent (every 15 minutes or
so) top ups of the tank. The leak is really bad; in reflective light,
water in bowl ripples noticeably after tank finishes filling.

The tank is not overfilling, water is not entering the bowl via the
overflow tube.

Obvious likely cause is the flapper. Replaced. Problem persists,
unchanged.

Next. Using gently duty scrunge, clean seal that flapper seats into.
Problem persists, unchanged.

Next. Try light coat of plumbers grease on flapper and seal. Problem
persists, unchanged. Try heavy coat of plumbers grease on flapper and
seal. Problem persists, unchanged.

Carefully inspect fill tube to be sure it is not cracked and leaking from
tank into bowl. No cracks or seepage found.

The last possible cause (leaving out cracked porcelain) is the rubber seal
between the tank and the bowl.

I worked a lot of overtime this week, and I haven't had time to make
another parts run and remove the tank.

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

Here is where it gets weired. When the tank fills slowly through the
leaking water supply manual shut off, the tank does not leak into the
bowl. No leak at all.

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or at
a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


I'd suspect seal between tank and bowl. I've had to replace one for
same problem.

I've also seen bolts between tank and bowl corrode to the point of
failure causing leak.

Frank wrote:

On 7/17/2011 11:07 AM, Tony Sivori wrote:
WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or
at a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


I'd suspect seal between tank and bowl. I've had to replace one for
same problem.

That's probably it.

The only thing I can think of regarding the lack of a leak when the tank
fills slowly is that maybe the velocity of the water is getting past the
bad seal, but the seal is good enough to contain less turbulent water.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

Tony Sivori wrote:
Odd toilet leak problem here for anyone who wants to take a shot at a hard
to diagnose condition.

Symptom:
Toilet tank leaks into bowl, causing very frequent (every 15 minutes or
so) top ups of the tank. The leak is really bad; in reflective light,
water in bowl ripples noticeably after tank finishes filling.

The tank is not overfilling, water is not entering the bowl via the
overflow tube.

Obvious likely cause is the flapper. Replaced. Problem persists,
unchanged.

Next. Using gently duty scrunge, clean seal that flapper seats into.
Problem persists, unchanged.

Next. Try light coat of plumbers grease on flapper and seal. Problem
persists, unchanged. Try heavy coat of plumbers grease on flapper and
seal. Problem persists, unchanged.

Carefully inspect fill tube to be sure it is not cracked and leaking from
tank into bowl. No cracks or seepage found.

The last possible cause (leaving out cracked porcelain) is the rubber seal
between the tank and the bowl.

I worked a lot of overtime this week, and I haven't had time to make
another parts run and remove the tank.

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

Here is where it gets weired. When the tank fills slowly through the
leaking water supply manual shut off, the tank does not leak into the
bowl. No leak at all.

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or at
a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


That points to the fill valve. What kind is it? I sometimes had that
happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks, drip .. drip ..
drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off almost closed but
leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that goes into the
overflow pipe.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Jul 17, 12:29*pm, Joerg wrote:
Tony Sivori wrote:
Odd toilet leak problem here for anyone who wants to take a shot at a hard
to diagnose condition.

Symptom:
Toilet tank leaks into bowl, causing very frequent (every 15 minutes or
so) top ups of the tank. The leak is really bad; in reflective light,
water in bowl ripples noticeably after tank finishes filling.

The tank is not overfilling, water is not entering the bowl via the
overflow tube.

Obvious likely cause is the flapper. Replaced. Problem persists,
unchanged.

Next. Using gently duty scrunge, clean seal that flapper seats into.
Problem persists, unchanged.

Next. Try light coat of plumbers grease on flapper and seal. Problem
persists, unchanged. Try heavy coat of plumbers grease on flapper and
seal. Problem persists, unchanged.

Carefully inspect fill tube to be sure it is not cracked and leaking from
tank into bowl. No cracks or seepage found.

The last possible cause (leaving out cracked porcelain) is the rubber seal
between the tank and the bowl.

I worked a lot of overtime this week, and I haven't had time to make
another parts run and remove the tank.

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

Here is where it gets weired. When the tank fills slowly through the
leaking water supply manual shut off, the tank does not leak into the
bowl. No leak at all.

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or at
a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?

That points to the fill valve. What kind is it? I sometimes had that
happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks, drip .. drip ..
drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off almost closed but
leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that goes into the
overflow pipe.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He said: The tank is not overfilling, water is not entering the bowl
via the
overflow tube.


I have had that happen because of the seal around the flapper seat to
the bottom of the tank. Since it's over the hole going into the bowl
the water ends up there.

Joerg wrote:

Tony Sivori wrote:

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or
at a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


That points to the fill valve. What kind is it?

A Flushmaster, installed about one year ago.

I sometimes had that happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks,
drip .. drip .. drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off
almost closed but leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that
goes into the overflow pipe.

I think if the fill valve were leaking, the water would overfill the tank.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 01:33:15 -0400, Tony Sivori
wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Tony Sivori wrote:

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or
at a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


That points to the fill valve. What kind is it?

A Flushmaster, installed about one year ago.

I sometimes had that happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks,
drip .. drip .. drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off
almost closed but leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that
goes into the overflow pipe.

I think if the fill valve were leaking, the water would overfill the tank.
No. There is an overflow that causes the excess water to go into the
bowl before it would overflow the tank. That could be what is
happening in your case. Make it happen on purpose (by holding the
float up) while you are watching and you will see what I mean.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 01:33:15 -0400, Tony Sivori
wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Tony Sivori wrote:

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or
at a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?


That points to the fill valve. What kind is it?

A Flushmaster, installed about one year ago.

I sometimes had that happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks,
drip .. drip .. drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off
almost closed but leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that
goes into the overflow pipe.

I think if the fill valve were leaking, the water would overfill the tank.
No. There is an overflow that causes the excess water to go into the
bowl before it would overflow the tank. That could be what is
happening in your case. Make it happen on purpose (by holding the
float up) while you are watching and you will see what I mean.

That's probably the cause. If the valve doesn't close fully water
will overflow into the overflow pipe and into the bowl.
You can see that easy enough.
But the main water outlet is at the bottom of the tank.
The tube going into the overflow pipe isn't under any head pressure
so a minor leak in the valve the water will flow there first.
That's assuming there's only one actual valve for both main outlet and
tube, which is probable. Never took one apart so that's a guess.
An easy way to prove it is to pull the tube from the overflow pipe and
see if there's water coming from it when the valve is supposed to be
closed.
I think Tony said it doesn't always do it, so there might be some grit
in the valve. Tapping the valve with a screwdriver handle while open
may clear it out.

--Vic

wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 01:33:15 -0400, Tony Sivori
wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Tony Sivori wrote:

WTF!? Wouldn't a leaky seal leak whether the tank fills very slowly or
at a normal pace? Why would that make a difference?



That points to the fill valve. What kind is it?

A Flushmaster, installed about one year ago.


I sometimes had that happen that on 40 year old Kohlers. Slow leaks,
drip .. drip .. drippity-drip .. drip ... No leaking when shut-off
almost closed but leaks when fully open. It was the little hose that
goes into the overflow pipe.

I think if the fill valve were leaking, the water would overfill the tank.

No. There is an overflow that causes the excess water to go into the
bowl before it would overflow the tank. That could be what is
happening in your case. Make it happen on purpose (by holding the
float up) while you are watching and you will see what I mean.

Uh, don't you mean holding the float DOWN?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:07:29 -0400, Tony Sivori
wrote:

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

This would be a great time to change the valve. Replace it with a 1/4
turn ball valve.

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/images/catalog/ishop/7070.jpg

Oren wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:07:29 -0400, Tony Sivori
wrote:

As luck would have it, the manual shut off valve leaks when closed. This
means that when the water supply is shut off, the tank slowly (about one
hour) fills itself to the full normal level.

This would be a great time to change the valve. Replace it with a 1/4
turn ball valve.

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/images/catalog/ishop/7070.jpg

Already replaced both cut offs on the wash stand. Tried to replace the
toilet cut off, but it didn't want to crack loose and I was afraid of
breaking off the 55 year old pipe.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.