Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up to
kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job. All
that works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded connection
into the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall that leads out to
the septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a Fermco. No leaks or
anything, but that means the collector/trap arm on the wall for the
washer and nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher than it used to. So now,
my entry-level 5 YO GE washer, if I do more than a 'small' load, piddles
on the floor. That only used to happen if I was washing pillows or
something.

Background- the original wall drain for washer, which sits 16" lower,
apparently connects to nothing any more. I tested it when I moved in,
and an hour later had water all over basement floor. My best guess is
that it went to a now-failed or missing dry well. Been meaning to saw it
off with the angle grinder and mud it over, but that is another story.

Anyway, when the washer that came with house caught on fire, I had to
run out to Sam's and buy the only model they had. I had to extend drain
hose a couple feet to reach the other pipe on the wall, but it mostly
worked okay, other than minor accidents with washing big spongy things.
Now, not so much. Drain comes out of washer at the usual low-down
location, and goes up 80 inches or so, and 48 inches sideways. Old drain
was maybe 62? inches off floor, and original dead standpipe sits at 66
inches.

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call the
plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump
previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking about
one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the useless
sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said that would never
handle the volume from a washer.

Any ideas for a cheap work-around, until I feel rich enough to get guys
with jackhammers involved? How much vertical pipe do I need above the
trap on the drain everything is poked into? Would a smooth rather than
corrugated drain line on washer help? (Nobody sells those, so I'd have
to make one from elbows and clear tubing, I think.) Or should I just
build a platform for the washer and dryer? Or am I missing an
alternative explanation, that shifting the washer around to swap the
dryer that self-destructed same week drain did, may have cracked or
loosened something under the washer?

As you can see from the questions, I'm no plumber. Any actual ideas or
information greatly appreciated.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up
to kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job. All that
works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded
connection into the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall
that leads out to the septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a
Fermco. No leaks or anything, but that means the collector/trap arm
on the wall for the washer and nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher
than it used to. So now, my entry-level 5 YO GE washer, if I do more
than a 'small' load, piddles on the floor. That only used to happen
if I was washing pillows or something.

Pull it out enough to take off the back cover and watch it while it runs. You'll
probably find a cracked hose or some such.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up to
kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job. All that
works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded connection into
the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall that leads out to the
septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a Fermco. No leaks or anything,
but that means the collector/trap arm on the wall for the washer and
nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher than it used to. So now, my entry-level
5 YO GE washer, if I do more than a 'small' load, piddles on the floor.
That only used to happen if I was washing pillows or something.

Background- the original wall drain for washer, which sits 16" lower,
apparently connects to nothing any more. I tested it when I moved in, and
an hour later had water all over basement floor. My best guess is that it
went to a now-failed or missing dry well. Been meaning to saw it off with
the angle grinder and mud it over, but that is another story.

Anyway, when the washer that came with house caught on fire, I had to run
out to Sam's and buy the only model they had. I had to extend drain hose a
couple feet to reach the other pipe on the wall, but it mostly worked
okay, other than minor accidents with washing big spongy things. Now, not
so much. Drain comes out of washer at the usual low-down location, and
goes up 80 inches or so, and 48 inches sideways. Old drain was maybe 62?
inches off floor, and original dead standpipe sits at 66 inches.

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call the
plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump previous
owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking about one of
those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the useless sink that
just drains onto floor. But plumber said that would never handle the
volume from a washer.

Any ideas for a cheap work-around, until I feel rich enough to get guys
with jackhammers involved? How much vertical pipe do I need above the trap
on the drain everything is poked into? Would a smooth rather than
corrugated drain line on washer help? (Nobody sells those, so I'd have to
make one from elbows and clear tubing, I think.) Or should I just build a
platform for the washer and dryer? Or am I missing an alternative
explanation, that shifting the washer around to swap the dryer that
self-destructed same week drain did, may have cracked or loosened
something under the washer?

As you can see from the questions, I'm no plumber. Any actual ideas or
information greatly appreciated.

--
aem sends...


I have one in a rental that is about 72" off the floor and have never had a
complaint. I do provide a extension piece of hose since most washer hoses
aren't long enough.

You did not say if your washer is a top or front loader. For a front, I
would put it on a pedestal. If you have some scrap you could try it with a
top loader. As long as you can get the clothes in and out with no pain it is
fine.

Any sump you put in for the purpose is going to need to be able to hold the
full washer load and the remaining backflow in the pit. A 5 gallon bucket
can help you figure this out. Use the bucket to fill the washer. My off the
wall opinion is they hold about 20 gallons. Let me know how close I got.

Also consider that the sump does not have to be in the floor to handle this
job and do it well. A farm supply store has many different size of watering
tanks that aren't all that pricey. I have been using a RubberMaid model as
a bio filter on my fish pond for over 15 years. So sit that puppy beside
the washer, pump the water into it and use a cheap sump pump to pump it
to the sewer. Total guess for all materials under $200.

Tractor Supply has a farm/ranch type site. You can view stuff from home and
then find it local if you don't have one close.

Please do update this thread with your solution.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
--
aem sends...

Adding a PS:

Heck you could even use 2, one inside the other, of big brute trash cans if
you only planned to use it for temporary. Those big mommas.

Colbyt

On Feb 27, 4:09 pm, "Bob F" wrote:


Pull it out enough to take off the back cover and watch it while it runs. You'll
probably find a cracked hose or some such.

Andy adds:

That's true, it should not "piddle". If it is trying to pump
against too high
a head, it should just sit there and grunt.
Washer discharge pumps are not designed to deliver any significant
head
are are very low pressure pumps. Remember, it takes about .44 psi to
lift the water 1 foot, so 80 inches or 6 1/2 feet is only about a 3
psi requirement.
Anyway, the instruction manual with your washer might tell you
lthe
max head it will service. If not, the discharge hose supplied with
the unit
is a good idea of something near the max.....

However, it should not "piddle" under any condition unless it leaks
out
the end of the hose.... If you assembled the hose to the unit
yourself,
keep an eye on the connection to the pump while the unit is running.
If the hose is intact, you may need a better clamp...

Andy 2.0 in Eureka, Texas

On 2/27/2011 5:50 PM, Andy wrote:
On Feb 27, 4:09 pm, "Bob wrote:


Pull it out enough to take off the back cover and watch it while it runs. You'll
probably find a cracked hose or some such.

Andy adds:

That's true, it should not "piddle". If it is trying to pump
against too high
a head, it should just sit there and grunt.
Washer discharge pumps are not designed to deliver any significant
head
are are very low pressure pumps. Remember, it takes about .44 psi to
lift the water 1 foot, so 80 inches or 6 1/2 feet is only about a 3
psi requirement.
Anyway, the instruction manual with your washer might tell you
lthe
max head it will service. If not, the discharge hose supplied with
the unit
is a good idea of something near the max.....

However, it should not "piddle" under any condition unless it leaks
out
the end of the hose.... If you assembled the hose to the unit
yourself,
keep an eye on the connection to the pump while the unit is running.
If the hose is intact, you may need a better clamp...

Andy 2.0 in Eureka, Texas

Checked hose, all connections dry, and no obvious kinks. However, there
is a ribbed/hoseclamped coupler where the factory hose, and the hose off
the old washer that I used to extend it, meet. Wondering if the diameter
at that joint is too small. At the time I made the hose, it didn't look
any smaller than the inside of the corrugations(or the output pipe of
the washer), and has worked 'okay' for five years. I did dig up the
owner's manual, both real and online. (RTFM, what a concept), and it
claims drain can be up to 8 feet/2.5 meters higher. At 80 inches, I
should be well within that range.

Mebbe I'll stop by the appliance repair place tomorrow after work and
ask them, and see if they have a proper extended-length hose. These
entry-level big-box-special GE laundry items don't seem to have a very
good rep, from what I understand. Perhaps there is a common failure
point in the plumbing under the tub that they are aware of. My gut says
there is something clogged/cracked/loose inside the washer.

--
aem sends...

On Feb 27, 4:36*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up to
kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job. *All
that works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded connection
into the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall that leads out to
the septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a Fermco. No leaks or
anything, but that means the collector/trap arm on the wall for the
washer and nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher than it used to. So now,
my entry-level 5 YO GE washer, if I do more than a 'small' load, piddles
on the floor. That only used to happen if I was washing pillows or
something.

Background- the original wall drain for washer, which sits 16" lower,
apparently connects to nothing any more. I tested it when I moved in,
and an hour later had water all over basement floor. My best guess is
that it went to a now-failed or missing dry well. Been meaning to saw it
off with the angle grinder and mud it over, but that is another story.

Anyway, when the washer that came with house caught on fire, I had to
run out to Sam's and buy the only model they had. I had to extend drain
hose a couple feet to reach the other pipe on the wall, but it mostly
worked okay, other than minor accidents with washing big spongy things.
Now, not so much. Drain comes out of washer at the usual low-down
location, and goes up 80 inches or so, and 48 inches sideways. Old drain
was maybe 62? inches off floor, and original dead standpipe sits at 66
inches.

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call the
plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump
previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking about
one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the useless
sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said *that would never
handle the volume from a washer.

Any ideas for a cheap work-around, until I feel rich enough to get guys
with jackhammers involved? How much vertical pipe do I need above the
trap on the drain everything is poked into? Would a smooth rather than
corrugated drain line on washer help? (Nobody sells those, so I'd have
to make one from elbows and clear tubing, I think.) Or should I just
build a platform for the washer and dryer? Or am I missing an
alternative explanation, that shifting the washer around to swap the
dryer that self-destructed same week drain did, may have cracked or
loosened something under the washer?

As you can see from the questions, I'm no plumber. Any actual ideas or
information greatly appreciated.

--
aem sends...

Ive seen machines pump up to a 6 or 7 ft drain. Have also seen this
problem solved by having the machine drain into a a laundry tub that
was being used as a sump for a sump pump. It was kind of a jury rigged
thing but it worked well. You may want to try sealing the connection
where the hose goes into the sewer. If you are lucky a siphon will
start that will actually draw the water from the machine. Once the
machine is empty the siphon will break.

Jimmie

Jimmie

On 2/27/2011 4:36 PM, aemeijers wrote:
Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up
to kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job.
All that works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded
connection into the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall
that leads out to the septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a
Fermco. No leaks or anything, but that means the collector/trap arm
on the wall for the washer and nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher
than it used to. So now, my entry-level 5 YO GE washer, if I do more
than a 'small' load, piddles on the floor. That only used to happen
if I was washing pillows or something.

Background- the original wall drain for washer, which sits 16"
lower, apparently connects to nothing any more. I tested it when I
moved in, and an hour later had water all over basement floor. My
best guess is that it went to a now-failed or missing dry well. Been
meaning to saw it off with the angle grinder and mud it over, but
that is another story.

Anyway, when the washer that came with house caught on fire, I had
to run out to Sam's and buy the only model they had. I had to extend
drain hose a couple feet to reach the other pipe on the wall, but it
mostly worked okay, other than minor accidents with washing big
spongy things. Now, not so much. Drain comes out of washer at the
usual low-down location, and goes up 80 inches or so, and 48 inches
sideways. Old drain was maybe 62? inches off floor, and original
dead standpipe sits at 66 inches.

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call
the plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump
pump previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been
thinking about one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it
under the useless sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said
that would never handle the volume from a washer.

Any ideas for a cheap work-around, until I feel rich enough to get
guys with jackhammers involved? How much vertical pipe do I need
above the trap on the drain everything is poked into? Would a smooth
rather than corrugated drain line on washer help? (Nobody sells
those, so I'd have to make one from elbows and clear tubing, I
think.) Or should I just build a platform for the washer and dryer?
Or am I missing an alternative explanation, that shifting the washer
around to swap the dryer that self-destructed same week drain did,
may have cracked or loosened something under the washer?

As you can see from the questions, I'm no plumber. Any actual ideas
or information greatly appreciated.

My basement is below septic level, so when I wanted a small sink, I
put an above-floor sump pit made from a 7 or 8 gallon plastic tote.
Check this pic and the following 3 pics.
https://picasaweb.google.com/actodes...13572891670850
It works very well. The pump was a re-use pump from my old house.
Actually, I removed it from service when we returned from vacation
and found it running continuously, just heating (almost boiling) the
small amount of water in the pit. Subsequently, it served as an
emergency pump for about a year in a friend's house, so I guess it
wasn't damaged too bad.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call the
plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump previous
owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking about one of
those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the useless sink that
just drains onto floor. But plumber said that would never handle the
volume from a washer.

If you have a laundry sink, I think this Saniswift pump will work fine:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANISWIFT.aspx .

I just priced one at a local plumbing supply place and they said the cost
was $190.

On 2/28/2011 8:43 PM, RogerT wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call
the plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump
previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking
about one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the
useless sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said that would
never handle the volume from a washer.

If you have a laundry sink, I think this Saniswift pump will work fine:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANISWIFT.aspx .

I just priced one at a local plumbing supply place and they said the
cost was $190.

No, actually, it is a porcelain over cast iron 3-hole wall-hung (like
you would see in a 1930s school washroom) that is much older than the
house, that previous owner liberated somewhere, and never got finished
installing. Totally unsuitable for laundry use, but I hate to ****can a
grand old sink like that. I really should look for a casting date on it
sometime.

I talked to appliance repair guy- he said that the 80 inch standpipe
height is much too high, no matter what owner's manual says. I spent
some time today staring at the non-installed sump pit and pump previous
owner left behind, and the circle of failed paint on the floor under
near the drain stack. Pump has obviously been used, but there is no way
to tell if a plastic pit was used sitting on floor for clean or gray
water. I now suspect previous owner was having same problem I am, and
just used the pit and pump sitting on floor next to washer. Once I get
past some other urgent chores (like taxes), I may do some experiments,
since all it will cost me is a fresh section of drain tubing and some
fittings. Until then, I'll just not do 'extra large' loads, or use the
'whites' cycle, since that seems to be when it either splashes over side
of tub, or shuts off so suddenly with so much water in the hose, that
the backflow from hose overflows the pump.

Yeah, I looked at the Saniswift at the borg a couple times, and at the
plastic laundry sink kits. I'm a little unsure how I would install it
with no vent nearby, other than just put a pipe sticking up higher than
the connections on wall, and rely on some sort of air gap setup to
prevent backflow. Plumber implied I'd have to lose the P-trap on the
side arm sticking out for any sort of pump arrangement to work. I'm no
plumber- all this is PFM to me.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:36:10 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.
Y'all may recall the rotted out main drain line I was whining about
recently. Well, I had a guy in to replace it, and although he was
expensive ($1400 including new toilet flange, tub trap, and pipes up to
kitchen sink drains), he was fast, and seemed to do a good job. All
that works fine. However, rather than disturb the old leaded connection
into the cracked/epoxied cast iron monster on the wall that leads out to
the septic, he stubbed out the copper and used a Fermco. No leaks or
anything, but that means the collector/trap arm on the wall for the
washer and nuisance drains sits 16-18" higher than it used to. So now,
my entry-level 5 YO GE washer, if I do more than a 'small' load, piddles
on the floor. That only used to happen if I was washing pillows or
something.

Background- the original wall drain for washer, which sits 16" lower,
apparently connects to nothing any more. I tested it when I moved in,
and an hour later had water all over basement floor. My best guess is
that it went to a now-failed or missing dry well. Been meaning to saw it
off with the angle grinder and mud it over, but that is another story.

Anyway, when the washer that came with house caught on fire, I had to
run out to Sam's and buy the only model they had. I had to extend drain
hose a couple feet to reach the other pipe on the wall, but it mostly
worked okay, other than minor accidents with washing big spongy things.
Now, not so much. Drain comes out of washer at the usual low-down
location, and goes up 80 inches or so, and 48 inches sideways. Old drain
was maybe 62? inches off floor, and original dead standpipe sits at 66
inches.

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call the
plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump pump
previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking about
one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the useless
sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said that would never
handle the volume from a washer.

Any ideas for a cheap work-around, until I feel rich enough to get guys
with jackhammers involved? How much vertical pipe do I need above the
trap on the drain everything is poked into? Would a smooth rather than
corrugated drain line on washer help? (Nobody sells those, so I'd have
to make one from elbows and clear tubing, I think.) Or should I just
build a platform for the washer and dryer? Or am I missing an
alternative explanation, that shifting the washer around to swap the
dryer that self-destructed same week drain did, may have cracked or
loosened something under the washer?

As you can see from the questions, I'm no plumber. Any actual ideas or
information greatly appreciated.

I don't have the energy to read your whole post, but my wm wasn't
draining a few years ago so I bought a new pump. I cut open the
orlginal pump and didn't see anything wrong with it. A year or two
later, it occured to me that my drain hose was sort of twisted for the
last several years, in order to have it end where I wanted it to, and
I wonder now if the hose maybe had kinked and the pump was never bad
at all.

On 2/28/2011 10:35 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 2/28/2011 8:43 PM, RogerT wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

Except that I feel kinda broke right now, I do have a solution- call
the plumber back to install the plastic sump pit and bigass sump
pump
previous owner left sitting under the stairs. I had been thinking
about one of those little pump-in-a-box things, and put it under the
useless sink that just drains onto floor. But plumber said that
would
never handle the volume from a washer.

If you have a laundry sink, I think this Saniswift pump will work
fine:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANISWIFT.aspx .

I just priced one at a local plumbing supply place and they said the
cost was $190.

No, actually, it is a porcelain over cast iron 3-hole wall-hung
(like you would see in a 1930s school washroom) that is much older
than the house, that previous owner liberated somewhere, and never
got finished installing. Totally unsuitable for laundry use, but I
hate to ****can a grand old sink like that. I really should look for
a casting date on it sometime.

I talked to appliance repair guy- he said that the 80 inch standpipe
height is much too high, no matter what owner's manual says. I spent
some time today staring at the non-installed sump pit and pump
previous owner left behind, and the circle of failed paint on the
floor under near the drain stack. Pump has obviously been used, but
there is no way to tell if a plastic pit was used sitting on floor
for clean or gray water. I now suspect previous owner was having
same problem I am, and just used the pit and pump sitting on floor
next to washer. Once I get past some other urgent chores (like
taxes), I may do some experiments, since all it will cost me is a
fresh section of drain tubing and some fittings. Until then, I'll
just not do 'extra large' loads, or use the 'whites' cycle, since
that seems to be when it either splashes over side of tub, or shuts
off so suddenly with so much water in the hose, that the backflow
from hose overflows the pump.

Yeah, I looked at the Saniswift at the borg a couple times, and at
the plastic laundry sink kits. I'm a little unsure how I would
install it with no vent nearby, other than just put a pipe sticking
up higher than the connections on wall, and rely on some sort of air
gap setup to prevent backflow. Plumber implied I'd have to lose the
P-trap on the side arm sticking out for any sort of pump arrangement
to work. I'm no plumber- all this is PFM to me.

Because it's just gray water, you probably don't even need a P-trap
at all. Actually, your hose coming out of the washer will act as
its own trap. When I built my plastic tote on-floor sump (several
posts earlier) I did put a trap from the sink into the tote-sump.
It's actually a 'dreaded' S-trap, which apparently has the problem
of being sucked out on rare occasions. But I really don't care as
it is only sink water from washing my hands, etc. and it dumps out
on the ground anyway.

On 3/4/2011 3:47 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:36:10 -0500,
wrote:

Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.

If the washer was made in China, Taiwan, or any other foreign country,
throw it away. If it was made in America, you should be able to pump
the wash water to the moon. Since the moon is lacking in water, the
occupants up there would appreciate your laundry water. However it
will take over 5000 gallons of PVC cement to glue together all the 10
foot sections of PVC pipe to reach the moon. You better start glueing
those pipes now.


Um, use the 20 foot sections, it will only take half as much glue. ^_^

TDD

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 03:57:35 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/4/2011 3:47 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:36:10 -0500, wrote:

Arrgh. Ain't nothing easy.

If the washer was made in China, Taiwan, or any other foreign country,
throw it away. If it was made in America, you should be able to pump
the wash water to the moon. Since the moon is lacking in water, the
occupants up there would appreciate your laundry water. However it
will take over 5000 gallons of PVC cement to glue together all the 10
foot sections of PVC pipe to reach the moon. You better start glueing
those pipes now.


Um, use the 20 foot sections, it will only take half as much glue. ^_^

Drinking straws and duct tape. Straws are available free at your nearest
fast-food establishment.

Calculating the number of straws that need to run in parallel and the
amount of duct tape required is left as an excercise for the reader.

(it's possible that a push-fit between straws would even be sufficient,
in which case total cost = 0)