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Automatic fire sprinklers
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Automatic fire sprinklers
"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. But I'm not sure. I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. $100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. But I'm not sure. I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. $100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. More nannyism for the government. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, "
wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 2:41*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, " wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... *Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... *It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... *If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... ~~ Evan Unfortunately dry systems can be a pain in the ass to maintain they have drum drips which must be emptied at least monthly or you risk them freezing as well. pcv does not sweat as much but the drums must be kept empty to prevent problems. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 4:38*pm, nick markowitz wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:41*pm, Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, " wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials.. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... *Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... *It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... *If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... ~~ Evan Unfortunately dry systems can be a pain in the ass to maintain they have drum drips which must be emptied at least monthly or you risk them freezing as well. pcv does not sweat as much but the drums must be kept empty to prevent problems. http://www.fpemag.com/articles/article.asp?i=477 |
Automatic fire sprinklers
A couple friends of mine did lose a house, to a garage fire.
They are in northern NYS. They heated with wood, so the insurance companies didn't want to insure them. Needs "automatic heat". The house is a loss, and no insurance to help rebuild. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. $100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:41:32 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote: On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, " wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... "Facts" stated not in evidence and completely irrelevant. If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... If you're not OUT OF THE HOUSE by the time the fire department can get there, you're dead. A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... That's why we have smoke alarms. If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... Are you stupid? Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... ....and nothing ever goes wrong. ...goes wrong. ...goes wrong. Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... Commercial buildings single family residences. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
In article ,
" wrote: If you're not OUT OF THE HOUSE by the time the fire department can get there, you're dead. A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Nope, according to Fire Administration and National Fire Protection Assoc tests. Hollywood notwithstanding, sprinklers in residential applications (nursing homes, hotels, etc.) don't all go off all at once. It is quite often one or two heads. BIG difference from what the trucks put on the fire. Also fires double in size every minute or so. Flashovers can take place as little as 4-5 minutes. There has never in the history of the US been a multiple fatality fire in a building with a working sprinkler. Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home Are you stupid? Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. Not that much. Most of the residential activations that haven't been accelerated, you only have one or two go off. Current data from the USFA and NFPA suggest typical damage a home suffers during a fire is reduced by 71% when sprinklers are present and operating. Occupants in a home with an operating fire sprinkler system have an 80% increased chance of survival. If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... ...and nothing ever goes wrong. ...goes wrong. ...goes wrong. Very rare. Commercial buildings single family residences. Single family residences have a lot of experience, see above. -- "Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on." ---PJ O'Rourke |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On 1/10/2011 7:30 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr Does anyone here have some real on hands experience with fire sprinklers going off? Some years ago I did a job at a place that makes the sprinklers and systems. I told them I heard insurance companies don't like them due to all the water damage. He replied, that's Hollywood for you! His and most sprinklers give off more of a heavy mist than a heavy drenching like you see on TV. And also if one sprinkler goes off, it doesn't trigger all the sprinklers... again, that's Hollywood. I'm not saying this is fact, just what I was told. Actually I believe one won't set them all off, but the heavy mist instead of a downpour? Any first hand knowledge? There are real sprinklers, and there are Hollywood sprinklers. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:23:07 -0500, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/10/2011 7:30 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr Does anyone here have some real on hands experience with fire sprinklers going off? Some years ago I did a job at a place that makes the sprinklers and systems. I told them I heard insurance companies don't like them due to all the water damage. He replied, that's Hollywood for you! His and most sprinklers give off more of a heavy mist than a heavy drenching like you see on TV. And also if one sprinkler goes off, it doesn't trigger all the sprinklers... again, that's Hollywood. I'm not saying this is fact, just what I was told. Actually I believe one won't set them all off, but the heavy mist instead of a downpour? Any first hand knowledge? There are real sprinklers, and there are Hollywood sprinklers. ....and then there are frozen pipes. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
Years ago, I took a couple fire protection courses.
Sprinklers actually greatly reduce damage, as well as reduced safety (fire deaths). Proper sprinklers open up only on the fire. Each head has a heat sensor, which melts or breaks at a certain temp. My courses were in the early 1980s, but they were conclusive that sprinklers greatly reduce damage. I'm curious, if you can provide some reputable web pages that support what you've written. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Are you stupid? Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 7:02*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Years ago, I took a couple fire protection courses. Sprinklers actually greatly reduce damage, as well as reduced safety (fire deaths). Proper sprinklers open up only on the fire. Each head has a heat sensor, which melts or breaks at a certain temp. My courses were in the early 1980s, but they were conclusive that sprinklers greatly reduce damage. I'm curious, if you can provide some reputable web pages that support what you've written. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . wrote in messagenews:uu2ni6pd2ck0hl9983j66vipcv0skj1sqt@4ax .com... A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Are you stupid? *Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. *If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. I have pictures some where from when one head on an R 13 system went off in a town house kitchen and destroyed it and 2 rooms below it with water. because some one put something in a microwave they should not have. Sprinklers do work but they also cause significant damage as well. thats why many insurance company's will increase your premium on home owners insurance if you have sprinklers. have a customer with2 high end homes put sprinklers in both and turned them both off after having water damge from frozen pipes. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 12:10*pm, "
wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * Agreed, that kind of installation should be up to the builder or homeowner |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 6:02*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Years ago, I took a couple fire protection courses. Sprinklers actually greatly reduce damage, as well as reduced safety (fire deaths). Proper sprinklers open up only on the fire. Each head has a heat sensor, which melts or breaks at a certain temp. My courses were in the early 1980s, but they were conclusive that sprinklers greatly reduce damage. I'm curious, if you can provide some reputable web pages that support what you've written. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote:
The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 6:23*pm, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/10/2011 7:30 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr Does anyone here have some real on hands experience with fire sprinklers going off? *Some years ago I did a job at a place that makes the sprinklers and systems. *I told them I heard insurance companies don't like them due to all the water damage. He replied, that's Hollywood for you! *His and most sprinklers give off more of a heavy mist than a heavy drenching like you see on TV. *And also if one sprinkler goes off, it doesn't trigger all the sprinklers... * again, that's Hollywood. I'm not saying this is fact, just what I was told. *Actually I believe one won't set them all off, but the heavy mist instead of a downpour? Any first hand knowledge? There are real sprinklers, and there are Hollywood sprinklers. Yup... It is usually only one sprinkler head in the immediate area of the fire that discharges... The water damage part is a factor of knowing how your system operates, keeping the valves accessible and knowing how to operate them after the fire has been extinguished... "Deluge" type systems where every sprinkler head activates are rare these days, leftover relics from the early days of fire protection in buildings whose systems have not been modernized OR are used in certain occupancy types like theater stages where if there is a fire it is better to douse everything with water than allow it to spread amongst the very flammable curtains and sets and backdrops... I think that too many people on here are not at all familiar with how modern sprinkler systems work, or the various ways such systems can be designed to be all but invisible with recessed sprinkler heads... Those who worry about freezing water in the piping seem to be unaware that it is possible to have sprinkler systems with dry standpipes where the water is held back by air pressure and a valve until a sprinkler head activates and releases the pressure... A sprinkler system that is properly designed will have a water flow sensor which will trigger an alarm... Much more damage is done by broken hoses on washing machines and failed hot water heaters which don't alert you with an alarm when they fail... ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 12:16*am, Evan wrote:
On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan How many fires do you hear about on the news where the FD reports that there were no working smoke detectors? I'll tell you....a lot! Smoke detectors are about $10. CO detectors a little more. Sprinkler systems are a lot more. Smoke detectors should be mandatory. They are proven to save life and property at a very low cost. But, like anything else, they are only as good as the people who maintain them. Now, think of how much damage can be done with a sprinkler system that is not maintained properly. I'm all for saving lives and property, but as hard as they try, politicians can't legislate stupidity. Hank |
Automatic fire sprinklers
In article ,
Tony Miklos wrote: On 1/10/2011 7:30 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote: are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr Does anyone here have some real on hands experience with fire sprinklers going off? Some years ago I did a job at a place that makes the sprinklers and systems. I told them I heard insurance companies don't like them due to all the water damage. Most insurance companies give discounts for residential sprinklers. I'm not saying this is fact, just what I was told. Actually I believe one won't set them all off, but the heavy mist instead of a downpour? Any first hand knowledge? It is a mist. Mists (small droplets, etc.) do a better job of soaking up the heat, which is what they do to break the fire triangle (or more recently the fire tetrahedron..) . Even the regular hoses off the trucks use mist. -- "Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on." ---PJ O'Rourke |
Automatic fire sprinklers
In article ,
" wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:23:07 -0500, Tony Miklos wrote: \ ...and then there are frozen pipes. Which of course freeze even if they aren't sprinklers. Given the placement of the pipes in the inner parts of the house, they are probably less likely to freeze than regular pipes that run up the outside walls. -- "Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on." ---PJ O'Rourke |
Automatic fire sprinklers
In article
, Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 8:09*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , *Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whether you think requiring sprinklers in new homes is a good idea or not, I think it's positively STUPID to pass this law in PA now, in the middle of the worst housing recession since the Depression. Sort of like passing national health insurance, imposing all kinds of uncertaintity and new costs on businesses during the worst recession. They can't sell houses now, so let's make them cost even more.... |
Automatic fire sprinklers
Smitty Two wrote:
As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane. Amen! And then consider the cost of all the GFCIs attached to hairdryers and curling irons in the past 20 years - millions of diollars, when 99% of the outlets they are plugged into are already protected by GFCIs. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
I don't remember reading in the Constitution. Where it gives
any level of government power to force us to buy safety equipment. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Evan" wrote in message ... Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On 1/11/2011 9:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I don't remember reading in the Constitution. Where it gives any level of government power to force us to buy safety equipment. They have guns. TDD |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 7:30*am, Dean Hoffman wrote:
* are now required in new Pennsylvania homes:http://tinyurl.com/323syvr I'm thinking most fires start and there is nobody around. if one installs a sprinkler, that activating, should also call response company. The politicians said they are considering the high estimate cost to possibly modify the requirements. Fire company takes 5 minutes to get there ? How long does it then take to hook up after they get there. ?? I think better fire codes on insulation and drywall requirements might be better. I need to install a wood stove and get approval. I wonder if the borough can do that ?? I don't want to get it professionally installed. I have an existing chimney. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 9:03*am, wrote:
On Jan 11, 8:09*am, Smitty Two wrote: In article , *Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whether you think requiring sprinklers in new homes is a good idea or not, I think it's positively STUPID to pass this law in PA now, in the middle of the worst housing recession since the Depression. * Sort of like passing national health insurance, imposing all kinds of uncertaintity and new costs on businesses during the worst recession. They can't sell houses now, so let's make them cost even more.... All the new homes I see built are for the rich. Screw them. Contractors don't want to build cheap houses. They make more money on the big ones. All the poorer people have to settle for used stuff. The people that don't like national health insurance, don't have many friends that need it. greg |
Automatic fire sprinklers
"zek" wrote in message ... All the new homes I see built are for the rich. Screw them. Contractors don't want to build cheap houses. They make more money on the big ones. All the poorer people have to settle for used stuff. The people that don't like national health insurance, don't have many friends that need it. greg and your point is? Doug |
Automatic fire sprinklers
Soon, we won't have guns. Point noted.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2011 9:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: I don't remember reading in the Constitution. Where it gives any level of government power to force us to buy safety equipment. They have guns. TDD |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 8:09*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , *Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane. Right, 20 people safe TODAY... Want to tell me how many fatalities there were from those electrocution accidents 30 or 40 years ago before they became required ? How far back did your statistical analysis go there Smitty ? ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, "
wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * That is a perfectly legitimate exercise of the police power of the state. Not every state action that places a burden on an individual is rampant nannyism. If the state action is designed to protect it's citizens from each other rather than themselves it is a normal function of state government and indeed the entire reason that state government exists. "Your right to swing your arms ends were the other fellas nose begins." Justice Holmes Requiring sprinklers is no different than requiring a non combustible roof. It is a measure to protect your neighbors from your carelessness so that when you have a fire; that 's right I said when. on average every American family has one accidental fire during the head of households lifetime; the cost of that fire will be born by you rather than your neighbors or your community. That is not nannyism but rather the legitimate exercise of the police power of the state. Fire protection is an exercise of the state's police powers that is carried out by the local governments of each state. The reason that firefighters make an aggressive interior attack on a fire in your home is so that it will not get large enough to become a threat to your neighbors homes who, at least at that moment, are not having an uncontrolled fire that could burn down their homes. When they attack the fire they cut large wholes in your roof and break out all of your windows even though that increases your losses. This is done to vent the superheated gasses that would cause injury or death to the firefighters and delay or prevent the attack on the fire. All of that is quite deliberate. The value of your home is sacrificed to keep the fire from spreading beyond the building of origin. The requirement for sprinklers is a decision by the state government to take advantage of the available technology to shift the cost of fire protection from the public to the owner of the building were the threat will originate. -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 10:26*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: I don't remember reading in the Constitution. Where it gives any level of government power to force us to buy safety equipment. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org Perhaps you do not know how to read the Constitution nor how to interpret what is written there and how the Supreme Court of the United States has interpreted and clarified the document in the ensuing 223 years since it was written by the founding fathers and architects of our country... The fact that you can *buy* anything is at the discretion of the US Congress which has the sole authority on the regulation of Commerce in the United States... Article I, § 8: -- "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;" (Commonly referred to as the "Commerce Clause") -- "To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;" -- "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof." (Commonly referred to as the "Necessary and Proper Clause") So it is written there, just not in the terms which you seem to need it to be so that you can clearly understand it I guess... Unless you are building a log cabin using only locally available materials (meaning you chopped down the logs yourself) you are engaging in and benefiting from interstate commerce to procure your supplies and materials which had to move across state lines to arrive at the local store from which you purchased them... THAT gives Congress the power to decide on how those materials should be sold and used... Or to require any safety laws it feels are necessary... It is my opinion that in the next few coming generations of the National Building Code that automatic fire sprinklers will soon be a nationwide requirement... ~~ Evan |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 4:38*pm, nick markowitz wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:41*pm, Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, " wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials.. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... *Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... *It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... *If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... ~~ Evan Unfortunately dry systems can be a pain in the ass to maintain they have drum drips which must be emptied at least monthly or you risk them freezing as well. pcv does not sweat as much but the drums must be kept empty to prevent problems. I have been responsible for sprinkler systems in various structures my entire life and I didn't spend half a day each month emptying drum traps. That is only necessary in the weeks immediately after a system trip or the weeks just after commissioning a metallic pipe system. Once a system is properly charged there is no way for water to enter the piping system beyond the dry pipe valve unless the system trips or is charged from the fire department connection. -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 2:38*pm, "Doug" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message ... All the new homes I see built are for the rich. Screw them. Contractors don't want to build cheap houses. They make more money on the big ones. All the poorer people have to settle for used stuff. The people that don't like national health insurance, don't have many friends that need it. greg and your point is? Doug Its not only Pa with sprinklers any state following ICC codes need sprinklers unless they have excluded itand some states did. Also all new circuits installed in a any residence new or existing must now be protected by a Arc Fault breaker. at $35.00 a pop plus all electrical outlets must now be child tamper proof as of 2010 NEC Plus there are new insulation energy code costs and tests as well on average all the new code things will add 8-10 thousand to the cost of a new home. |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 5:49*pm, "
wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:41:32 -0800 (PST), Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, " wrote: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:23:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: On Jan 10, 8:25*am, "Techvoid" wrote: "Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... *are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr good idea? It's not as expensive as it used to be. *There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. *I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. *But I'm not sure. *I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. *Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. *Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. *By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. *$100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out. I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. *My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. *Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system. Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. *More nannyism for the government. * LOL... *Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... *It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire... "Facts" stated not in evidence and completely irrelevant. If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building... If you're not OUT OF THE HOUSE by the time the fire department can get there, you're dead. *A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... That's why we have smoke alarms. If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with... Are you stupid? *Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. *If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads... ...and nothing ever goes wrong. *...goes wrong. *...goes wrong. Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected... Commercial buildings single family residences. * You obviously know nothing about firefighting or automatic sprinklers. You offer no basis for your statements, which over forty years of fire service experience tells me are completely untrue, but you expect your readers to except them as gospel. Just how many times have you crawled down a long snotty hallway looking for other peoples children at 0dark30 in the morning? How much water does a modern interior attack line flow per minute? How many seconds of flow does it take to knock a room and contents that has flashed over? Do you have the faintest idea? I have been on fire attacks were the fire flow exceeded twenty thousand gallons a minute and were the loss was limited to less than forty percent of the buildings value in spite of the fact that the de- watering operation took hours. I have been on many house fires were the fire flow exceeded five hundred gallons a minute and the loss was limited to less than a quarter of the buildings value. The amount of loss to the building of origin is immaterial though as long as the fire is held to that structure and does not spread to other properties the state has done it's job. -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 10, 8:40*pm, nick markowitz wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:02*pm, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Years ago, I took a couple fire protection courses. Sprinklers actually greatly reduce damage, as well as reduced safety (fire deaths). Proper sprinklers open up only on the fire. Each head has a heat sensor, which melts or breaks at a certain temp. My courses were in the early 1980s, but they were conclusive that sprinklers greatly reduce damage. I'm curious, if you can provide some reputable web pages that support what you've written. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . wrote in messagenews:uu2ni6pd2ck0hl9983j66vipcv0skj1sqt@4ax .com... A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall. Are you stupid? *Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. *If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off. I have pictures some where from when one head on an R 13 system went off in a town house kitchen and destroyed it and 2 rooms below it with water. because some one put something in a microwave they should not have. Sprinklers do work but they also cause significant damage as well. thats why many insurance company's will increase your premium on home owners insurance if you have sprinklers. have a customer with2 high end homes put sprinklers in both and turned them both off after having water damge from frozen pipes. Name one insurance carrier that will do that nick. Just one will do. -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 9:03*am, wrote:
On Jan 11, 8:09*am, Smitty Two wrote: In article , *Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whether you think requiring sprinklers in new homes is a good idea or not, I think it's positively STUPID to pass this law in PA now, in the middle of the worst housing recession since the Depression. * Sort of like passing national health insurance, imposing all kinds of uncertaintity and new costs on businesses during the worst recession. They can't sell houses now, so let's make them cost even more.... Oh I see for the sake of the builders we should allow them to continue to condemn communities to the cost of manual fire protection for the life of each new structure. Umm I vote no! -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 8:09*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , *Evan wrote: On Jan 10, 11:51*pm, mleuck wrote: The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story LOL... *And why not ? If something can save lives why not require it... *Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day... Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now... How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ? ~~ Evan Thanks for your previous posts with good info about how these sprinkler systems work. But I'm completely opposed to laws designed to protect me from myself. I have smoke detectors because I think they're a good idea, but I don't have CO detectors, and I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me I need a sprinkler system. As for GFCIs, absolute bull****. The number of electrocutions in the home, in the U.S. is vanishingly small. I researched this a few years ago for an a.h.r. discussion, and IIRC, about ten times as many people die by falling down while walking on level ground. A law requiring installation of tens of millions of devices in order to keep ~20 people per year alive is absolutely, positively insane. Smitty Requiring sprinklers is just a way to shift the cost of keeping your fire to yourself from your fellow citizens to you. The state is not trying to protect you from yourself. They are trying to protect you from your neighbors and your neighbors from you. Manual fire protection is far more expensive than automatic fire protection. That is a fact. -- Tom Horne |
Automatic fire sprinklers
On Jan 11, 2:38*pm, "Doug" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message ... All the new homes I see built are for the rich. Screw them. Contractors don't want to build cheap houses. They make more money on the big ones. All the poorer people have to settle for used stuff. The people that don't like national health insurance, don't have many friends that need it. greg and your point is? Doug Any state following ICC codes now need to follow sprinkler code unless they exempt it not just Pa. Also There are new energy and Electrical codes to drive up the cost. All new circuits installed in new or existing homes must now be protected by GFCI or new Arc Fault breakers Add $1000.00 extra cost for this average new homes. all outlets in home must be tamper proof to prevent children inserting items in outlets . a new infrared energy test must be run to see if home is leaking air. also new energy codes require almost all new homes have duct work in interior walls only no more outside walls unless special duct work used. average cost to a new home between sprinklers and electrical and energy is $8-10 thousand and thats if additional items like a pressure tank for sprinkler is needed. |
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