"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

All of the commercial automatic doors I installed and serviced had a
breakout feature. I should note that it applies to sliding doors. You
may see a little red sticker on the door that instructs you to push
on the door in an emergency. The door will pop loose and swing open.
The commercial doors have all sorts of proximity sensors and safety
features to protect even the dumbest of humans but people still get
hurt. It's a constant battle against the dumb asses of the world. :-)

My dad did forensic engineering when he retired from the Navy. Automatic
doors really do injure people, especially the older doors without enough
sensors. Elderly people who move slowly are the most likely to get slapped
in the butt and knocked down by a door that "thought" that enough time had
elapsed for a person to clear the "swingway." That's why they've added mat
sensors, radar sensors, photocells and ultrasonics to many modern automatic
doors. Someone's grandma got knocked down. Repeatedly.

It's not just the dumb asses - it's the slow movers, too.

Multiple sensors became necessary because often times, maintenance on the
doors is deferred until an accident occurs. My dad continually came across
systems where a single sensor (out of 4) was left functioning and one sensor
is just not enough to figure out whether grandma has actually cleared the
door. As you're probably aware, many of the doors are made to be quite
powerful since they have to close against the significant air pressure that
can occur on windy days. That results in some pretty serious injuries to
elders with fragile bones.

But I can guarantee you from the grisly pictures he often brought home, that
automatic door accidents are a walk in the park compared to elevator
accidents where door closes on someone's arm and the car suddenly drops.
The worst I saw was when some kids got into the elevator room on the roof in
public housing in Baltimore and got caught up and shredded in the
cable/pulley system. There was another case at Syracuse U. where a
repairman cut off all the safety interlocks on a elevator WITHOUT placing
"out of order" signs on each floor as required while he worked on the
system.

There are enough fatal elevator accidents that occur each year to sustain
several law firms that do almost exclusively elevator litigation. A large
portion of elevator mishaps occur because of a failure of the door safety
lock mechanisms. The doors "catch" people and the car drops and, well, you
can imagine the rest. The bigger cars just cut people in two while smaller
cars sort of rip them apart. Often, the head is pulled right off the neck.

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 19, 5:01*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in ...

stuff snipped

All of the commercial automatic doors I installed and serviced had a
breakout feature. I should note that it applies to sliding doors. You
may see a little red sticker on the door that instructs you to push
on the door in an emergency. The door will pop loose and swing open.
The commercial doors have all sorts of proximity sensors and safety
features to protect even the dumbest of humans but people still get
hurt. It's a constant battle against the dumb asses of the world. :-)

My dad did forensic engineering when he retired from the Navy. *Automatic
doors really do injure people, especially the older doors without enough
sensors. *Elderly people who move slowly are the most likely to get slapped
in the butt and knocked down by a door that "thought" that enough time had
elapsed for a person to clear the "swingway." *That's why they've added mat
sensors, radar sensors, photocells and ultrasonics to many modern automatic
doors. *Someone's grandma got knocked down. *Repeatedly.

It's not just the dumb asses - it's the slow movers, too.

Multiple sensors became necessary because often times, maintenance on the
doors is deferred until an accident occurs. *My dad continually came across
systems where a single sensor (out of 4) was left functioning and one sensor
is just not enough to figure out whether grandma has actually cleared the
door. *As you're probably aware, many of the doors are made to be quite
powerful since they have to close against the significant air pressure that
can occur on windy days. *That results in some pretty serious injuries to
elders with fragile bones.

But I can guarantee you from the grisly pictures he often brought home, that
automatic door accidents are a walk in the park compared to elevator
accidents where door closes on someone's arm and the car suddenly drops.
The worst I saw was when some kids got into the elevator room on the roof in
public housing in Baltimore and got caught up and shredded in the
cable/pulley system. *There was another case at Syracuse U. where a
repairman cut off all the safety interlocks on a elevator WITHOUT placing
"out of order" signs on each floor as required while he worked on the
system.

There are enough fatal elevator accidents that occur each year to sustain
several law firms that do almost exclusively elevator litigation. *A large
portion of elevator mishaps occur because of a failure of the door safety
lock mechanisms. *The doors "catch" people and the car drops and, well, you
can imagine the rest. *The bigger cars just cut people in two while smaller
cars sort of rip them apart. *Often, the head is pulled right off the neck.

--
Bobby G.

One of the benefits of growing up in construction- much like growing
up on a farm- you learn at an early age that industrial machines can
kill you and not even notice, much less care. And yes, motorized doors
should be considered industrial machines.

--
aem sends, on Google pretty much till new year's.....

On 12/19/2010 5:01 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

All of the commercial automatic doors I installed and serviced had a
breakout feature. I should note that it applies to sliding doors. You
may see a little red sticker on the door that instructs you to push
on the door in an emergency. The door will pop loose and swing open.
The commercial doors have all sorts of proximity sensors and safety
features to protect even the dumbest of humans but people still get
hurt. It's a constant battle against the dumb asses of the world. :-)

My dad did forensic engineering when he retired from the Navy. Automatic
doors really do injure people, especially the older doors without enough
sensors. Elderly people who move slowly are the most likely to get slapped
in the butt and knocked down by a door that "thought" that enough time had
elapsed for a person to clear the "swingway." That's why they've added mat
sensors, radar sensors, photocells and ultrasonics to many modern automatic
doors. Someone's grandma got knocked down. Repeatedly.

It's not just the dumb asses - it's the slow movers, too.

Multiple sensors became necessary because often times, maintenance on the
doors is deferred until an accident occurs. My dad continually came across
systems where a single sensor (out of 4) was left functioning and one sensor
is just not enough to figure out whether grandma has actually cleared the
door. As you're probably aware, many of the doors are made to be quite
powerful since they have to close against the significant air pressure that
can occur on windy days. That results in some pretty serious injuries to
elders with fragile bones.

But I can guarantee you from the grisly pictures he often brought home, that
automatic door accidents are a walk in the park compared to elevator
accidents where door closes on someone's arm and the car suddenly drops.
The worst I saw was when some kids got into the elevator room on the roof in
public housing in Baltimore and got caught up and shredded in the
cable/pulley system. There was another case at Syracuse U. where a
repairman cut off all the safety interlocks on a elevator WITHOUT placing
"out of order" signs on each floor as required while he worked on the
system.

There are enough fatal elevator accidents that occur each year to sustain
several law firms that do almost exclusively elevator litigation. A large
portion of elevator mishaps occur because of a failure of the door safety
lock mechanisms. The doors "catch" people and the car drops and, well, you
can imagine the rest. The bigger cars just cut people in two while smaller
cars sort of rip them apart. Often, the head is pulled right off the neck.

--
Bobby G.


Back in the mid 1980's Besam automatic doors had a new infrared safety
proximity sensors to detect the presence of people in the doorway. It
was installed on the swinging doors. The sliders used motion detectors
and one or more photocell type safety beams and current sensing for the
drive motor. If the current draw was too great when the door was
closing, it would reverse and open up. The swinging doors were power
open and spring close with the infrared safety bar on either side of the
door. The bar is around 3-4 inches wide and as long as the door is wide.
Dark red plastic strips covered two rows of emitters and a center row of
detectors. If there was a reflection of infrared light anywhere
along the strip, it would signal the door stop. The only problem item
for the sensors to detect was fur coats, it seems fur absorbs infrared
radiation. Oh yea, I just remembered, Besam came out with an infrared
safety bar that looked down from the top cover of the sliding doors
looking for a reflection of infrared light. I saw a woman get hit by one
of the sliders when she slipped up the side of the door instead
of walking straight through. Chrome guide rails are added to some door
systems to prevent people from coming in from the side. People will
find a way to get hurt no matter what you do. :-)

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 12/19/2010 5:01 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

All of the commercial automatic doors I installed and serviced had a
breakout feature. I should note that it applies to sliding doors. You
may see a little red sticker on the door that instructs you to push
on the door in an emergency. The door will pop loose and swing open.
The commercial doors have all sorts of proximity sensors and safety
features to protect even the dumbest of humans but people still get
hurt. It's a constant battle against the dumb asses of the world. :-)

My dad did forensic engineering when he retired from the Navy.
Automatic
doors really do injure people, especially the older doors without enough
sensors. Elderly people who move slowly are the most likely to get
slapped
in the butt and knocked down by a door that "thought" that enough time
had
elapsed for a person to clear the "swingway." That's why they've added
mat
sensors, radar sensors, photocells and ultrasonics to many modern
automatic
doors. Someone's grandma got knocked down. Repeatedly.

It's not just the dumb asses - it's the slow movers, too.

Multiple sensors became necessary because often times, maintenance on
the
doors is deferred until an accident occurs. My dad continually came
across
systems where a single sensor (out of 4) was left functioning and one
sensor
is just not enough to figure out whether grandma has actually cleared
the
door. As you're probably aware, many of the doors are made to be quite
powerful since they have to close against the significant air pressure
that
can occur on windy days. That results in some pretty serious injuries
to
elders with fragile bones.

But I can guarantee you from the grisly pictures he often brought home,
that
automatic door accidents are a walk in the park compared to elevator
accidents where door closes on someone's arm and the car suddenly drops.
The worst I saw was when some kids got into the elevator room on the
roof in
public housing in Baltimore and got caught up and shredded in the
cable/pulley system. There was another case at Syracuse U. where a
repairman cut off all the safety interlocks on a elevator WITHOUT
placing
"out of order" signs on each floor as required while he worked on the
system.

There are enough fatal elevator accidents that occur each year to
sustain
several law firms that do almost exclusively elevator litigation. A
large
portion of elevator mishaps occur because of a failure of the door
safety
lock mechanisms. The doors "catch" people and the car drops and, well,
you
can imagine the rest. The bigger cars just cut people in two while
smaller
cars sort of rip them apart. Often, the head is pulled right off the
neck.

--
Bobby G.


Back in the mid 1980's Besam automatic doors had a new infrared safety
proximity sensors to detect the presence of people in the doorway. It
was installed on the swinging doors. The sliders used motion detectors
and one or more photocell type safety beams and current sensing for the
drive motor. If the current draw was too great when the door was
closing, it would reverse and open up. The swinging doors were power
open and spring close with the infrared safety bar on either side of the
door. The bar is around 3-4 inches wide and as long as the door is wide.
Dark red plastic strips covered two rows of emitters and a center row of
detectors. If there was a reflection of infrared light anywhere
along the strip, it would signal the door stop. The only problem item
for the sensors to detect was fur coats, it seems fur absorbs infrared
radiation. Oh yea, I just remembered, Besam came out with an infrared
safety bar that looked down from the top cover of the sliding doors
looking for a reflection of infrared light. I saw a woman get hit by one
of the sliders when she slipped up the side of the door instead
of walking straight through. Chrome guide rails are added to some door
systems to prevent people from coming in from the side. People will
find a way to get hurt no matter what you do. :-)

That's true, but the constant feedback from lawsuits has made a lot of
products much safer than their first design iteration. Tjat's especially
true of elevators, automatic doors and cars. From seatbelts to soft
dashboards to flush door hardware on cars - all came about as a result of
the litigation/design cycle. There's a societal benefit in making things
safer although Darwinists might disagree. The NEC is only a series of rules
but it's saved countless lives by making the electricity in a house safer to
use. I owe my well being to various safety devices like air bags, seat
belts, fuses, saw guards, goggles and more. I am sure I am not the only one
here that owes a debt to safety engineering.

Here in the DC area, the Metro officials can't keep their escalators
running. The most recent case was when the braking system failed (oil on
the mechanism, they say) and people were accelerated toward the bottom by a
runaway escalator. This was the train system that killed quite a few people
last year when a track control system failed. While Metro officials were
intent on blaming the train operator, persistent discovery requests from
lawyers for the dead revealed that it was a long standing problem and came
about partly from mixing parts from several manufacturers.

I've been to a lot of similar trials, and once the stakes get large enough,
companies actually do redesign their products to be safer when it turns out
to be more expensive not to. Yes, some people find the safety features to
be an annoying intrusion but it's clear that things like dead man switches
on lawn mowers and various other safety interlocks do save lives and prevent
serious injuries.

It's a process of stepwise refinement. If the IR can be "fooled" by fur
coats (worn by rich, litigious patrons, I assume) then the next generation
of sensors will be designed to detect them - after the trial and the big
payout. It's not evil, greedy trial lawyers looking for a buck (well,
maybe). It's the way that feedback gets to the manufacturers to encourage
them to do a better job. Or, in cases like the little tool that shaved the
ridges off your fingernails, to go out of business when your product has
harmed the requisite number of customers. (-: Anyone know if "Slip and
Slide" is still in business? Last I heard they had a number of adult
customers paralyzed from the neck down because adults don't quite flex like
little kids.

--
Bobby G.

On 12/21/2010 12:19 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/19/2010 5:01 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

All of the commercial automatic doors I installed and serviced had a
breakout feature. I should note that it applies to sliding doors. You
may see a little red sticker on the door that instructs you to push
on the door in an emergency. The door will pop loose and swing open.
The commercial doors have all sorts of proximity sensors and safety
features to protect even the dumbest of humans but people still get
hurt. It's a constant battle against the dumb asses of the world. :-)

My dad did forensic engineering when he retired from the Navy.
Automatic
doors really do injure people, especially the older doors without enough
sensors. Elderly people who move slowly are the most likely to get
slapped
in the butt and knocked down by a door that "thought" that enough time
had
elapsed for a person to clear the "swingway." That's why they've added
mat
sensors, radar sensors, photocells and ultrasonics to many modern
automatic
doors. Someone's grandma got knocked down. Repeatedly.

It's not just the dumb asses - it's the slow movers, too.

Multiple sensors became necessary because often times, maintenance on
the
doors is deferred until an accident occurs. My dad continually came
across
systems where a single sensor (out of 4) was left functioning and one
sensor
is just not enough to figure out whether grandma has actually cleared
the
door. As you're probably aware, many of the doors are made to be quite
powerful since they have to close against the significant air pressure
that
can occur on windy days. That results in some pretty serious injuries
to
elders with fragile bones.

But I can guarantee you from the grisly pictures he often brought home,
that
automatic door accidents are a walk in the park compared to elevator
accidents where door closes on someone's arm and the car suddenly drops.
The worst I saw was when some kids got into the elevator room on the
roof in
public housing in Baltimore and got caught up and shredded in the
cable/pulley system. There was another case at Syracuse U. where a
repairman cut off all the safety interlocks on a elevator WITHOUT
placing
"out of order" signs on each floor as required while he worked on the
system.

There are enough fatal elevator accidents that occur each year to
sustain
several law firms that do almost exclusively elevator litigation. A
large
portion of elevator mishaps occur because of a failure of the door
safety
lock mechanisms. The doors "catch" people and the car drops and, well,
you
can imagine the rest. The bigger cars just cut people in two while
smaller
cars sort of rip them apart. Often, the head is pulled right off the
neck.

--
Bobby G.


Back in the mid 1980's Besam automatic doors had a new infrared safety
proximity sensors to detect the presence of people in the doorway. It
was installed on the swinging doors. The sliders used motion detectors
and one or more photocell type safety beams and current sensing for the
drive motor. If the current draw was too great when the door was
closing, it would reverse and open up. The swinging doors were power
open and spring close with the infrared safety bar on either side of the
door. The bar is around 3-4 inches wide and as long as the door is wide.
Dark red plastic strips covered two rows of emitters and a center row of
detectors. If there was a reflection of infrared light anywhere
along the strip, it would signal the door stop. The only problem item
for the sensors to detect was fur coats, it seems fur absorbs infrared
radiation. Oh yea, I just remembered, Besam came out with an infrared
safety bar that looked down from the top cover of the sliding doors
looking for a reflection of infrared light. I saw a woman get hit by one
of the sliders when she slipped up the side of the door instead
of walking straight through. Chrome guide rails are added to some door
systems to prevent people from coming in from the side. People will
find a way to get hurt no matter what you do. :-)

That's true, but the constant feedback from lawsuits has made a lot of
products much safer than their first design iteration. Tjat's especially
true of elevators, automatic doors and cars. From seatbelts to soft
dashboards to flush door hardware on cars - all came about as a result of
the litigation/design cycle. There's a societal benefit in making things
safer although Darwinists might disagree. The NEC is only a series of rules
but it's saved countless lives by making the electricity in a house safer to
use. I owe my well being to various safety devices like air bags, seat
belts, fuses, saw guards, goggles and more. I am sure I am not the only one
here that owes a debt to safety engineering.

Here in the DC area, the Metro officials can't keep their escalators
running. The most recent case was when the braking system failed (oil on
the mechanism, they say) and people were accelerated toward the bottom by a
runaway escalator. This was the train system that killed quite a few people
last year when a track control system failed. While Metro officials were
intent on blaming the train operator, persistent discovery requests from
lawyers for the dead revealed that it was a long standing problem and came
about partly from mixing parts from several manufacturers.

I've been to a lot of similar trials, and once the stakes get large enough,
companies actually do redesign their products to be safer when it turns out
to be more expensive not to. Yes, some people find the safety features to
be an annoying intrusion but it's clear that things like dead man switches
on lawn mowers and various other safety interlocks do save lives and prevent
serious injuries.

It's a process of stepwise refinement. If the IR can be "fooled" by fur
coats (worn by rich, litigious patrons, I assume) then the next generation
of sensors will be designed to detect them - after the trial and the big
payout. It's not evil, greedy trial lawyers looking for a buck (well,
maybe). It's the way that feedback gets to the manufacturers to encourage
them to do a better job. Or, in cases like the little tool that shaved the
ridges off your fingernails, to go out of business when your product has
harmed the requisite number of customers. (-: Anyone know if "Slip and
Slide" is still in business? Last I heard they had a number of adult
customers paralyzed from the neck down because adults don't quite flex like
little kids.

--
Bobby G.



I my neck of the woods, many deaths occur to young intoxicated men who's
last word follow a strikingly similar theme which is "Hey y'all, watch
this!".

I never ceases to be amazed at how the simple use of common sense
prevents most accidents. When I work on electrical equipment, I work on
it as though it is energized even if the power is disconnected and I
don't trust that anyone will leave a safety switch alone no matter how
big a warning sign I put on it instructing people not to touch it. Yes,
I know all about lock out kits. I've even seen an idiot break the lock
off a safety switch, the lock was bright red and the moron couldn't
understand why I was yelling at him.

I'm an aggressive defensive driver and I drive like everyone is out to
get me. I remember a little thing from drivers education classes back in
high school where the instructor in a film said to play the game of
"what if" while driving. "What if this fellow swaps lanes without
signaling?" "What if that driver runs that stop sign?" it soon becomes
second nature and you do it on a subconscious level. I'll be driving
along and I'll suddenly slow down or change lanes, quite often something
dangerous happens and I would have been in the middle of it. It saved me
one day years ago when I suddenly changed lanes without
thinking about it and out of the corner of my eye, I saw an Ingersoll
Rand towed air compressor flipping end over end in the next lane as it
passed me. That damn thing weighed more than the car I was driving.

TDD