greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the handle
down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper but that
didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of replacing the
toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much
better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.

also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a commercial
restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when flushed.
thanks, cj

cj wrote:
greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the
handle down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper
but that didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of
replacing the toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets
today are much better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of
old.

Open the tank lid, and flush the toilet normally (without holding down the
lever).

Does the flapper drop down when you release the lever?

If yes, you need to adjust the chain connecting the lever to the flapper.

Jon

cj wrote in :

greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the handle
down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper but that
didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of replacing the
toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much
better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.



Watch the flapper as you flush. Does it stay open until pretty much all the
water is gone, then snap shut?

Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

Is the skinny rubber hose directing its stream into the overflow pipe that
the flapper attaches to? If the hose doesn't spray into the overflow pipe,
the toilet will flush very lazily.




also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a commercial
restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when flushed.
thanks, cj



Ones with a special high-pressure water feed. It's an expensive system, but
good for institutional use because it saves water and prevents clogs. It's
not generally intended for home use.

--
Tegger

Tegger wrote:
cj wrote in :


greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the handle
down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper but that
didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of replacing the
toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much
better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.




Watch the flapper as you flush. Does it stay open until pretty much all the
water is gone, then snap shut?

Good thing to check...

Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

What's that got to do with anything? I've never seen a tank-lid which
didn't have provisions for preventing it from sealing so tightly it
would restrict air flow into the tank.


Is the skinny rubber hose directing its stream into the overflow pipe that
the flapper attaches to? If the hose doesn't spray into the overflow pipe,
the toilet will flush very lazily.

The purpose of that tube is to refill the bowl during the time the tank
is refilling. I did encounter one once on a Fluidmaster refill valve I
installed in one of our home's toilets which squirted such a strong
stream down the refill pipe that it kicked back up at the bottom and
kept the flapper from closing, so the tank never filled.

I solved the problem by placing a few inches of wire solder inside that
skinny rubber hose to cut down the flow.

I pinged Fluidmaster about it and they replied that it was not an
unheard of problem. They sent me a little plastic flow restrictor to cut
into the rubber tube. (I never got a round tuit because the solder
worked fine.)

Jeff






also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a commercial
restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when flushed.
thanks, cj




Ones with a special high-pressure water feed. It's an expensive system, but
good for institutional use because it saves water and prevents clogs. It's
not generally intended for home use.

cj wrote:
greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the
handle down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper
but that didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of
replacing the toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets
today are much better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of
old.
also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a
commercial restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when
flushed. thanks, cj

I think the commercial ones that go 'woosh' don't have reservoir tanks but
are, instead, hooked up to the water mains and deliver about 100 gallons at
a pressue of 50 p.s.i.

In ,
cj typed:
greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to
hold the handle down for the bowl to completely flush. i
replaced the flapper but that didn't work. what else could
it be? i am thinking of replacing the toilet all together
and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much better
(flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.
also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in
a commercial restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh'
loudly when flushed. thanks, cj

Sounds like you have a low-water-usage toilet, which is not manadated for
resdiential use. They flush poorly, for sure. Most are 1.6 gallons or less,
but on all of them I've come across (only 3) f you hold the handle down
longer you'll get a much better flush.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:53:51 -0500, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

What's that got to do with anything? I've never seen a tank-lid which
didn't have provisions for preventing it from sealing so tightly it
would restrict air flow into the tank.

Yes but the flush lever can hit the top inside on the lid and never
fully open the flapper.

As suggested, adjust the chain/lever link to the flapper.

With the lid cover off, you can see if the lever rises above the tank
edge. Adjust as necessary.

On 12/2/2010 15:53, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Tegger wrote:
Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

What's that got to do with anything? I've never seen a tank-lid which
didn't have provisions for preventing it from sealing so tightly it
would restrict air flow into the tank.

The issue is whether the flush lever lifts the flapper high enough to
stay up until the tank empties out. The lid could block the lever movement.

I just replaced an old toilet with an American Standard Champion model
($234 at Home Depot). It has a 4 inch flush valve in place of the
traditional flapper. The valve stays up only as long as you hold the
handle down, but even almost instantaneous flush is more than adequate
for all but the biggest dumps. If you hold the handle down, 1.6 gallons
go down in about 3 seconds, with a force comparable to a pressure
assisted flush.

--

In article ,
cj wrote:

greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the handle
down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper but that
didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of replacing the
toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much
better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.

also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a commercial
restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when flushed.
thanks, cj

I think you mean no tank. A toilet with no bowl wouldn't be very
functional. Google "Flushometer."

On 12/3/2010 1:02 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the handle
down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper but that
didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of replacing the
toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets today are much
better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of old.

also, what kind of toilets are those that you would find in a commercial
restroom, the kind with no bowl and 'woosh' loudly when flushed.
thanks, cj

I think you mean no tank. A toilet with no bowl wouldn't be very
functional. Google "Flushometer."
ooppss, yup, no tank
cj

On 12/2/2010 4:28 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:
cj wrote:
greeting, i have an older toilet (1988) that you have to hold the
handle down for the bowl to completely flush. i replaced the flapper
but that didn't work. what else could it be? i am thinking of
replacing the toilet all together and i'm guessing that the toilets
today are much better (flushing power) and efficient than toilets of
old.

Open the tank lid, and flush the toilet normally (without holding down the
lever).

Does the flapper drop down when you release the lever?

If yes, you need to adjust the chain connecting the lever to the flapper.

Jon


The flapper stays up once the lever is released but closes with about a
third of the tank still full. Would the flapper stay up longer with less
slack in the chain?
Thanks, cj

jeff_wisnia wrote in
:

Tegger wrote:


Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

What's that got to do with anything?



If the chain is misadjusted, the lever will hit the underside of the lid
before the flapper is lifted up high enough to actually stay in that
position. With the lid off, the lever may now suddenly be lifted higher,
and the flapper can assume the correct position, which is a clue that the
chain is misadjusted.



Is the skinny rubber hose directing its stream into the overflow pipe
that the flapper attaches to? If the hose doesn't spray into the
overflow pipe, the toilet will flush very lazily.

The purpose of that tube is to refill the bowl during the time the
tank is refilling. I did encounter one once on a Fluidmaster refill
valve I installed in one of our home's toilets which squirted such a
strong stream down the refill pipe that it kicked back up at the
bottom and kept the flapper from closing, so the tank never filled.



I've seen toilets that flushed really lazily, or incompletely, with the
hose not directed into the overflow pipe.
I should have said "may" flush lazily, not "will", since not all toilets
will be like this.



--
Tegger

cj wrote:

The flapper stays up once the lever is released but closes with about
a third of the tank still full. Would the flapper stay up longer with
less slack in the chain?

Probably not; if the flapper is staying up after you hit the lever, it's
doing its job.

What it sounds like to me is that your flapper is giving you a dual-mode
flush, where you have to hold the handle for the full volume of the tank to
empty out. This is by design on newer toilets, to save water; perhaps your
flapper is providing you with this new "feature".

Does the toilet still flush adequately (evacuates the content of the bowl)
despite only utilizing 2/3 of the tank? If not, and you need a better
flapper, you might try contacting a local plumbing store and telling them of
your problem; perhapd they might have a flapper that will provide a better
solution for your older terlet.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
Probably not; if the flapper is staying up after you hit the lever,
it's doing its job.

That having been said, it won't hurt anything to play with the length of the
chain. Just make sure to mark where it is now, so you can return it to that
position when you are done experimenting.

Jon

This flapper will solve your problem by controlling the amount of time it
takes before the flapper closes
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-48225/Detail

BTW: 1. If this toilet was installed in 1988, it was probably a "Water
Saver" (not a Low-flow) type which uses 3.5 gallons (instead of the previous
5.5 to 6 gallons) per flush. They were notoriously poor performers, worse
that the current crop of low flow (1.2-1.6 gpf) ones.
2. The flushometer toilet was pretty standard in NYC apartment houses built
or replumbed in the 20s, 30s and 40s.
--
Peace,
BobJ

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Jon Danniken wrote:
Probably not; if the flapper is staying up after you hit the lever,
it's doing its job.

That having been said, it won't hurt anything to play with the length of
the chain. Just make sure to mark where it is now, so you can return it
to that position when you are done experimenting.

Jon

Oren wrote:

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:53:51 -0500, jeff_wisnia
wrote:


Does the toilet flush better with the tank-lid removed?

What's that got to do with anything? I've never seen a tank-lid which
didn't have provisions for preventing it from sealing so tightly it
would restrict air flow into the tank.


Yes but the flush lever can hit the top inside on the lid and never
fully open the flapper.

As suggested, adjust the chain/lever link to the flapper.

With the lid cover off, you can see if the lever rises above the tank
edge. Adjust as necessary.


Thanks, I never ran into that one, but it sure do make sense!

Jeff (Never stopping learning stuff.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.