Some electrical outlets not working
 

On Nov 20, 12:22*pm, al wrote:
On Nov 20, 11:05*am, bud-- wrote:





wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:42:25 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Nov 19, 8:32 am, al wrote:
On Nov 18, 6:42 am, al wrote:

Some of the outlets in my house stopped working. *Outlets on
individual walls in different rooms work while others don't. *They are
associated with different fuses, but the fuses are okay. *I double
checked them by replacing them anyway and affected outlets still don't
work. *Any idea what would cause this?
Problem solved.

Contractor's estimator checked everything, double-checked the fuses
and discovered a main fuse that was bad. * Replaced it and solved the
problem.

My all to obvious error was not checking the main fuses. *I just
checked the round screw in fuses. *Since moving in here, I've never
touched or even thought of touching those red cylindrical fuses. *Now
those fuses aren't the only things that are red.

Anyway, the estimator said as some of you have that the fuse panel
should be replaced with a breaker panel and is preparing an estimate
for that job. *Breakers are probably a better option for someone
susceptible to failing to explore all options before raising the alarm
anyway.

Thanks for all the input.
Thanks for your closure to this, we all learned something.
*Fuses fail from age/temp cycling. Since the lights SOMETIMES worked,
the fuse was not blown due to a short or overload - the fuse just
"failed"

The lights may sometimes work because they are powered from the other
leg through a 220V load like a water heater.

I would not bet that the fuse "just failed".

A loose connection near the fuse can generate heat to blow the fuse at
lower than its rated current. With a loose connection you may see
flickering lights.

--
bud--

Further investigation is going to be necessary, because last night I
did notice that lights were dimming, almost imperceptibly. *And not
necessarily just the ones on the aforementioned affected outlets.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You probably have an intemittent connection. Because messing with the
fuse fixed it once I'd suspect that area first. Your electrician
should be able to tighten all the connections where the wire enter and
leave the box. If that doesn't solve it then the problem may be in
the meter.

Some electrical outlets not working
 

Some electrical outlets not working
 

Robert Green wrote:

That site also goes on to say:

Fuses are prone to explode under extremely high overload. When
a fuse explodes, the metallic vapor cloud becomes a conducting
path. Result? From complete meltdown of the electrical panel,
melted service wiring, through fires in the electrical
distribution transformer and having your house burn down.
[This author has seen it happen.] Breakers won't do this.


Breakers can explode under extremely high overload. They can cause the
same arc flash and burn down.

If you have a solid short at a panel, the current is the "available
fault current". (For a house service it is likely 5,000 - 10,000A).

Electrical apparatus, particularly fuses and breakers, has a rating for
the "available fault current" of the source. If you use a fuse or
breaker (or motor starter...) at a point where the available fault
current is higher than the rating for the fuse or breaker it can explode.

Fuses are readily and cheaply available for circuits with available
fault currents of 200,000A. Breakers are not readily or cheaply
available with that rating.

If apparatus is applied within its rating - current, voltage, available
fault current - it doesn't explode. The NEC requires apparatus be used
withing its rating - including available fault current. I expect the
"site" knows nothing about this.

--
bud--

Some electrical outlets not working
 

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:02:11 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:

As far as the UL is concerned, they don't really care because it is
NOT a safety issue. Can't cause a fire or any other damage

Maybe you are thinking of CSA.

You think UL has no concern about fuses opening in ways they are not
designed to open?

They want them to open to clear a fault.
Arcing at an alleged fracture point?

The arc is very tiny and totally enclosed - definitely not a safety
issue
Protecting people with a connection that is intermittent?

GENERALLY the connection fails totally open. If it is interupting a
fault it fails totally open. Like anything man-made it CAN fail in
unpredictable ways - but a fuse will ALWAYS blow to clear a short or
heavy overload.

I haven't seen it. I spent years doing residential, commercial,
industrial service work.
I've seen a few - more in low voltage DC automotive fuses than mains
or branch circuit fuses - but I have had 2 plug fuses fail in my own
house over the last 29 years that were NOT overloads or shorts.

Can't rmember for sure, but I think both were either Buss or Gould

Some electrical outlets not working
 

Some electrical outlets not working
 

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:31:59 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:02:11 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:
As far as the UL is concerned, they don't really care because it is
NOT a safety issue. Can't cause a fire or any other damage
Maybe you are thinking of CSA.

You think UL has no concern about fuses opening in ways they are not
designed to open?

They want them to open to clear a fault.

UL also does not want fuses to fail in hazardous ways
Arcing and intermittently being open are hazardous.

Arcing at an alleged fracture point?

The arc is very tiny and totally enclosed - definitely not a safety
issue

The size of the arc is determined by the current. Arcs can generate a
lot of heat. And cause fires or deteriorate nearby connections.

OK Bozo - if there was any amount of current involved - read that as
anything aproaching even a fraction of the current the fuse is rated
for, it would NOT be intermittent - the fuse link would "fuse" - which
means melt - and open completely from the heat of the arc.

And in a cartridge fuse,(mains) the arc extinguishing filler would
look after it in short order. In automotive fuses it is MUCH more
common because of the vibration issue.
As a mechanic I found DOZENS of fuses that had simply fractured - and
MANY of them were intermittent.

Absolutely no way it could escalate into a fire safety issue.

You are just being an ass - admit it.

I haven't seen it. I spent years doing residential, commercial,
industrial service work.
I've seen a few - more in low voltage DC automotive fuses than mains
or branch circuit fuses - but I have had 2 plug fuses fail in my own
house over the last 29 years that were NOT overloads or shorts.

Can't rmember for sure, but I think both were either Buss or Gould

So for power wiring we are only talking about plug fuses. Allegedly
only 2 have failed.
2 have failed in MY panel over 30 years.

I can remember my dad mentioning several situations when he was
working as an electrician where the fuse had "failed" - not "blown"
and the neon testers used widely in the day to check for power showed
power - but a 15 watt bulb would not light.
His recommendation was if you found one fuse failed in that way in a
customer's panel, and all the fuses were the same brand - and looked
to possibly have been installed at the same time, to replace them all.
He figured a bad batch. I suspect it was temperature
cycling/vibration or whatever, possibly combined with a bad batch

Some electrical outlets not working
 

Some electrical outlets not working
 

Some electrical outlets not working
 

In article ,
bud-- wrote:

UL is not going to like the fuses you describe.

C'mon Bud, what is the problem with blown fuses arc-welding themselves
back together again? I'd call that a desirable automatic reset function.
It's green, because it keeps fuses out of the landfill, and it saves the
labor of replacing them, and it's safer than reaching into the fusebox
to replace them, too. UL should embrace new and improved technology like
that.