Double Wire Circuits
 

wrote:
On Jun 24, 7:48 am, harry wrote:
On Jun 24, 12:33 pm, wrote:





On Jun 23, 4:34 pm, harry wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:52 pm, wrote:
On Jun 22, 1:01 pm, harry wrote:
On Jun 22, 3:23 pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.
That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit
I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)
cheers
Jules
Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.
What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.
There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring and it's connected to a
30A CB. The area it serves is limited to 100m2. It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.
I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.
Next!
It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. That could be done with either method.
Next!
Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?


That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.

There is not a limit on the number of receptacles on a residential circuit.

You could argue that there is an area limit:
- the number of general purpose branch circuits has to be enough to
match the watts-per-square-ft load used in the service calculation
- that load is to be evenly distributed between those branch circuits.
(210.11)

For finished spaces of dwelling units, the calculated load is 3 watts
per square ft. Presumably a 15A circuit would handle about 600 sq ft,
or a 20A circuit would handle about 800 sq ft. Not likely anyone would
be called on the division. Inspectors might catch there is an
unreasonably low number of branch circuits.

--
bud--

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:
On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:





On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below..

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. !5 amps is poor protection for
say a TV.

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:
On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:





On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend..

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

!5 amps is poor protection for
say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. I would strongly suspect yours do as well.

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 25, 2:31*pm, wrote:
On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:





On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

*!5 amps is poor protection for

say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. * I would strongly suspect yours do as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The flex is not protected. Damage to which is the cause of many fires/
electrocution incidents.

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 26, 5:33*am, harry wrote:
On Jun 25, 2:31*pm, wrote:





On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets.. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies.. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

*!5 amps is poor protection for

say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. * I would strongly suspect yours do as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The flex is not protected. *Damage to which is the cause of many fires/
electrocution incidents.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What is "flex" that is allegedly causing many fires and
electrocutions?

Double Wire Circuits
 

In article , wrote:
On Jun 26, 5:33=A0am, harry wrote:
[snipped]

PDFTFT

(Please Don't Feed The F**king Trolls)

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 26, 1:43*pm, wrote:
On Jun 26, 5:33*am, harry wrote:





On Jun 25, 2:31*pm, wrote:

On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

*!5 amps is poor protection for

say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. * I would strongly suspect yours do as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The flex is not protected. *Damage to which is the cause of many fires/
electrocution incidents.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What is "flex" that is allegedly causing many fires and
electrocutions?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flexible cable. Dunno what you call it. The bit of wire between the
appliance and the outlet.

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 30, 2:40*pm, harry wrote:
On Jun 26, 1:43*pm, wrote:





On Jun 26, 5:33*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 25, 2:31*pm, wrote:

On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

*!5 amps is poor protection for

say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. * I would strongly suspect yours do as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The flex is not protected. *Damage to which is the cause of many fires/
electrocution incidents.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What is "flex" that is allegedly causing many fires and
electrocutions?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flexible cable. * Dunno what you call it. *The bit of wire between the
appliance and the outlet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And what does that have to do with making circuits less safe when run
with one connection to the panel or with two making it a ring
circuit? That is what you claimed, that ring circuits were safe and
the USA method cause fires and electrocutions. And that has nothing
to do with the type of wire between an appliance and an outlet. So
now you're off on yet another aimless tangent. What the hell do you
use to plug a TV into an outlet in the UK that is so much better than
any similar cord used in the USA or the rest of the world. If it''s
not felxible, what do you use on that TV. Metal or PVC conduit?
That would be real practical. I've been to the UK, seen appliance
cords, and they didn't look like anything special. Somehow I suspect
it's an ordinary appliance cord, similar to what is used in the rest
of the world.

Double Wire Circuits
 

On Jun 30, 9:12*pm, wrote:
On Jun 30, 2:40*pm, harry wrote:





On Jun 26, 1:43*pm, wrote:

On Jun 26, 5:33*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 25, 2:31*pm, wrote:

On Jun 25, 8:35*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 4:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:48*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 24, 12:33*pm, wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:34*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:52*pm, wrote:

On Jun 22, 1:01*pm, harry wrote:

On Jun 22, 3:23*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:18:54 -0700, Pavel314 wrote:
This is a theoretical electrical question, not something I actually plan
to do. Say somebody wants to run a new circuit from the breaker box to
one special outlet, like for a microwave oven or window air conditioner
or something like that. Being an ecconomical sort, this guy decides that
instead of buying the proper gauge wire for the job, he'll use up some
14 gauge wire which is lying around from a previous job, but run two hot
lines and two ground lines in parallel, as diagrammed below.

That's essentially the way it's done in the UK; wiring is run such that
outlets sit on a ring circuit rather than a radial from the service panel
(consumer unit in UK parlance). See:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

I'm sure it violates all sorts of rules this side of the Pond :-)

cheers

Jules

Yes, we have a ring main system over here with 13Asockets. *It makes
more efficient use of the wire, is safer and easier to extend.

What exactly makes it safer and easier to extend? *With billions of
simple straight run circuits installed in the USA, I haven't seen any
reports of anything bad happening here, so I'd say safety is a moot
point.

There
is a fuse in each plug sized to the appliance it supplies. *There can
be an unlimited number of sockets on a ring *and it's connected to a
30A CB. *The area it serves is limited to 100m2. *It's ideally suited
to todays home with many small appliances.http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_main
We had a radial system over here at one time , it was abandonded over
fifty years ago.- Hide quoted text -

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If you want an extra socket, you can break into the ring at any point
and reroute the wiring or use joint boxes. There is no need to run
wires back to the circuit breaker. One, two, three and four gang
sockest are available.

I can do exactly that under the US wiring methods as well, add an
outlet to an existing circuit without installing a new breaker and
wire run to the panel.

Next!

It's safer because each plug has a cartridge fuse in it, sized to the
appliance. *eg for a TV,1amp, for an electric heater, washing machine
etc 10 *or 13amps (2 or 3 Kw).- Hide quoted text -

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The fact that the plug has a fuse in it has nothing to do with wiring
it in a ring. *That could be done with either method.

Next!

Besides being a rabble rouser here with OT posts, you really don't
know much, do you?- Hide quoted text -

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But isn't. How many sockets an you wire n a radial?- Hide quoted text -

That would depend on several factors and some of the resident NEC
experts here can better answer that question. * But for general use
outlets in residential wiring, I believe the number of outlets is
going to be a function of what is practical and limited by that as
opposed to the hard limit. * I don't think you'd want more than about
8 on one 15 amp circuit and that is well within what is allowed.- Hide quoted text -

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So at 120 volts thats less than 2Kw. *

What is less than 2KW?

*!5 amps is poor protection for

say a TV.- Hide quoted text -

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All the TVs we have here have appropriate sized internal over current
protection. * I would strongly suspect yours do as well.- Hide quoted text -

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The flex is not protected. *Damage to which is the cause of many fires/
electrocution incidents.- Hide quoted text -

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What is "flex" that is allegedly causing many fires and
electrocutions?- Hide quoted text -

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Flexible cable. * Dunno what you call it. *The bit of wire between the
appliance and the outlet.- Hide quoted text -

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And what does that have to do with making circuits less safe when run
with one connection to the panel or with two making it a ring
circuit? *That is what you claimed, that ring circuits were safe and
the USA method cause fires and electrocutions. *And that has nothing
to do with the type of wire between an appliance and an outlet. *So
now you're off on yet another aimless tangent. * *What the hell do you
use to plug a TV into an outlet in the UK that is so much better than
any similar cord used in the USA or the rest of the world. * If it''s
not felxible, what do you use on that TV. * Metal or PVC conduit?
That would be real practical. *I've been to the UK, seen appliance
cords, and they didn't look like anything special. *Somehow I suspect
it's an ordinary appliance cord, similar to what is used in the rest
of the world.- Hide quoted text -

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The flexible cable is not protected on your system. It is with ours by
the fuse in the plug.