OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On 6/9/2010 8:31 PM, mm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:49:38 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jun 6, 11:27 pm, Gordon wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

Let me try to explain this so even you could understand it.

OK, go for it smartass.

Let's assume the following temps to be true:
Wall temp ~80
Attic temp (daytime) ~120
Outside temp (daytime) ~80
Water Heater Temp ~140
Ground temp ~60

We aren't talking about "wall temps". We are talking about the temp
*inside* the walls, were EVERYTHING is the same temp, including the
COLD water pipes, as was stated in the OP that I questioned. "If the
house is air conditioned, it will cool off more". There were no
parameters given.

When cold water is first called for during the day you get 80 (From
the wall area pipes) then 120 (From the attic pipes) then 80 (from
the outside pipes) and finally 60 (from the ground pipes).

See how simple that was?

No **** Sherlock. Thanks for making my point.

Because you ignore facts that are given to you, not only by me but by
others, I bet you voted for Obama didn't you?

Huh. I voted for Obama and I'm nothing like this other poster.

Gordon Shumway

A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.

A Conservative is a person who will let others go hungry no matter why
they are poor. One line just aa silly as the other.

A Conservative is a former Liberal who's been sodomized by the
government numerous times and doesn't like it and will do whatever
he can to put a stop to it and preventing it from ever happening
again to himself or anyone else. A Liberal who stays Liberal after
being buggered by the government is one of the weird ones who likes
being violated and wants everyone else to share in the experience.

TDD

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:30:09 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 01:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 7, 2:52*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 23:25:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron

So where do they put them?

Where they were in the first place. *That's why it's expensive.

In the slab?

They may exist, but I've never seen a house built on a slab in the
north. My brother had an expensive house in Dallas, two houses in a
row actually, but they weren't for me because they had no basement and
so little storage room.

I'm in the eastern middle of NY and while I agree that it is a
terrible idea- it has been done.

In the late 50's it was 'the rage' -- "Warm floors from your radiant
heating" "No cold, leaking basements"

In the 70's I was selling heating systems to an entire development
with slab heating that had failed. It was aptly named 'Cold Brook'.
[and I might add- because it was the 50's and the floor was heated,
anyway, none of these houses even had perimeter insulation, so that
was the first money these folks had to spend]

Jim

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

Ron wrote:

The only cool water coming from my sinks in the summer is from the
hoses underneath the sinks, and that last for about 2 seconds before
the water gets warm, and then scalding hot. Then it takes at least 1
minute before the water is cool enough to put your hands under.


The water coming out of your faucet is:
* Room temperature until the water behind the wall is exhausted
* 130 degrees or more until the water in the attic pipes is exhausted
* The temperature then drops as supply water slowly removes the residual
heat from the attic pipes
* Much lower, from 80 to 56 degrees, as the faucet begins to be fed from the
underground pipes.

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Jun 9, 8:30*pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 01:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 7, 2:52*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 23:25:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron

So where do they put them?

Where they were in the first place. *That's why it's expensive.

In the slab?

They may exist, but I've never seen a house built on a slab in the
north. *My brother had an expensive house in Dallas, two houses in a
row actually, but they weren't for me because they had no basement and
so little storage room. *

My in-laws had a house on a slab in Illinois.

My current house is on a slab, too. I agree with you, but only one
house we looked at had a basement and it was on the side of a ravine
(and looked about to slide down).

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Jun 9, 9:37*pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 01:24:36 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:



On Jun 7, 3:05*am, mm wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 4, 11:53*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 3, 7:00*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

On Jun 3, 3:41=A0pm, willshak wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote the following: I've been wondering about this for year=
s. =A0When I turn the shower on,
the first water that comes out is
c-o-o-o-o-o-ld! =A0So I've learned to adjust the temp before stepping
in.

But WHY does cold come out first, when it's supposed to be mixed?

Inquiring minds...

Hypatia

How close is the shower to the water heater?
If the hot water hasn't been run in a while, the hot water stored in the
pipes will cool off. If the house is air conditioned, it will cool off mo=
re.

AC cools off water pipes??????

It cools off *everything* in the house.

Not enough to penetrate sheetrock and cool off water pipes. I guess if

Of course it does. It just takes longer to cool the inside of walls
than to the stuff in the middle of the room. *It also takes longer to
cool the middle of the room than to cool the AC ducts and the louvers
where the AC air comes out.

Then perhaps you can explain to me while during the summer (expect at
night) when I turn on the cold water I get warm and then HOT water? I
have to let it run for over a minute just to get cool water. My
neighbors that don't had direct shade on their roofs from trees have
the same problem. A friend of mine that had his house re-plumbed (so
his pipes are now in his attic) has the *same* problem.

We were talking about the temperature of the pipes in the walls. *Now
you're talking about the water in the pipes in the attic. *That water
can get very hot in the summer and it won't cool off to inside-wall
temperature in the few seconds it takes to get from the attic to the
faucet.

Ah, no...I'm still talking about the pipes in my walls, that run FROM
the attic.

Everyone else is distinguishing the water before any water is being
used, versus after its running. *

You and several other people stated that the water in the pipes inside
the walls would be the same temperature as the living area if you have
AC. *I questioned that, period. There were no parameters, and now it
seems that some of you want to add some.

There are implied parameters. If you run the water long enough, you'll
be using water from outside the house under ground. * Were you talking
about that water once it it in your walls. That will be cooler yet.

Has NOTHING to do with running the water. Repeat.....You and several
other people stated that the water in the pipes inside the walls would
be the same temperature as the living area if you have AC. I
questioned that. The water inside MY walls is NOT room temp, period.

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Jun 10, 12:11*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Ron wrote:

The only cool water coming from my sinks in the summer is from the
hoses underneath the sinks, and that last for about 2 seconds before
the water gets warm, and then scalding hot. Then it takes at least 1
minute before the water is cool enough to put your hands under.

The water coming out of your faucet is:
* Room temperature until the water behind the wall is exhausted

Not in *my* house. The only "room temp" water that I get is just as I
stated, from the hoses located underneath the sink.
* 130 degrees or more until the water in the attic pipes is exhausted
* The temperature then drops as supply water slowly removes the residual
heat from the attic pipes
* Much lower, from 80 to 56 degrees, as the faucet begins to be fed from the
underground pipes.

OK, expect for your first sentence why are you stating the obvious?

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Jun 6, 11:17*pm, Ron wrote:

In the north, you'd
never plumb a house that way because the pipes could freeze in winter.

In the north, if you need to have your house replumbed, how else is it
going to be done w/o running the pipes in the attic?

In the north, most of the pipes run through the basement and inside
of the (preferably interior) walls if the house has more than one
story.

Most northern houses have basements. Once you've dug down four
feet to get the foundation below the frost line, you may as well keep
digging another couple of feet to obtain useful storage and utility
space.
(Nowadays, they usually go to eight, but my vintage 1948 basement is
about 6 feet.)

Cindy Hamilton

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

In article , Ron wrote:

Has NOTHING to do with running the water. Repeat.....You and several
other people stated that the water in the pipes inside the walls would
be the same temperature as the living area if you have AC. I
questioned that. The water inside MY walls is NOT room temp, period.

What temperature do you imagine that it *is*, then? And how do you "know"
this?

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

On Jun 10, 3:31*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:



Has NOTHING to do with running the water. Repeat.....You and several
other people stated that the water in the pipes inside the walls would
be the same temperature as the living area if you have AC. *I
questioned that. The water inside MY walls is NOT room temp, period.

What temperature do you imagine that it *is*, then? And how do you "know"
this?

Does anyone read a thread anymore?

Water that is too hot to put your hands under within 2 seconds or
less.....you do the math.

Does the hot water in the pipes that is around 120 degrees (or higher)
just magically stop getting hot and drop to room temp just because the
"plastic" pipe is run through a 2x4.

It's MY house.....I think I know it better than anyone in here.

I'm tired of repeating myself.

EOT

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

Ron wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:11 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Ron wrote:

The Then it takes at least 1
minute before the water is cool enough to put your hands under.

The water coming out of your faucet is:
* Room temperature until the water behind the wall is exhausted

Not in *my* house. The only "room temp" water that I get is just as I
stated, from the hoses located underneath the sink.

Phooey. The pipe that feeds the sink (assuming it comes from the attic, is
1/2" I.D. and six feet tall ) contains:

3.14 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 72 = 14 cubic inches of water, less than a single 8 oz
glass. Of course the faucet is going to dump that in two seconds. THEN you
get the attic water. Assuming 100' of 3/4" pipe, that's 530 cubic inches, or
about 2.5 gallons. It takes a couple of minutes to dump two gallons.

* 130 degrees or more until the water in the attic pipes is exhausted
* The temperature then drops as supply water slowly removes the
residual heat from the attic pipes
* Much lower, from 80 to 56 degrees, as the faucet begins to be fed
from the underground pipes.

OK, expect for your first sentence why are you stating the obvious?

To explain the stated condition: "...only cool water coming from my sinks in
the summer is from the hoses underneath the sinks, and that last for about 2
seconds before the water gets warm, and then scalding hot."

OT -ish - Why shower runs cold first
 

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...


Most northern houses have basements. Once you've dug down four
feet to get the foundation below the frost line, you may as well keep
digging another couple of feet to obtain useful storage and utility
space.
(Nowadays, they usually go to eight, but my vintage 1948 basement is
about 6 feet.)

My early 1800s basement is just over 6' in most areas, but since it was
hand-dug, there are some places where it's only about 5' and even I have to
duck. Everyone has to duck around the pipes!