About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

wrote in message
...
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. Really a handy thing to have for sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..

Bummer about the lightning.... consider surge suppression (I started a
thread some time ago on DIY surge suppression, lots of info there), or mebbe
even an isolation transformer for the whole house -- proly not cheap, tho.

So the contractor ig'd your wishes, eh?
Can you find him to ask him where this thing might be?
--
EA




Thanks,
Pat

On May 30, 6:31�pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. �We wanted some
undercounter lights included. �The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. �I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. �He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. �We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. �All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter �lights didn't work. �I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. �So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. �I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. �The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. �The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. �All that stuff
works. �I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. �That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. �Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. �Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

There are several possiblities. I would start by taking the light
fittings out, you may well find there is an individual transformer
behind each light. Failing that, you just gotta follow the wires
back. Mirror and torch is handy to look in the holes where the lights
are. They/it won't be far away.
It might be better to abandon everything and start afresh.

On Sun, 30 May 2010 10:59:52 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 30, 6:31?pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. ?We wanted some
undercounter lights included. ?The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. ?I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. ?He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. ?We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. ?All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter ?lights didn't work. ?I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. ?So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. ?I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. ?The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. ?The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. ?All that stuff
works. ?I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. ?That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. ?Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. ?Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

There are several possiblities. I would start by taking the light
fittings out, you may well find there is an individual transformer
behind each light. Failing that, you just gotta follow the wires
back. Mirror and torch is handy to look in the holes where the lights
are. They/it won't be far away.
It might be better to abandon everything and start afresh.

The lights themselves are mounted in a metal raceway on the surface of
the cabinet bottoms. I am sure there are no individual transformers.
The wires from the lights then run to a very shallow surface mounted
box with a pushbutton switch in it. From there, the wires go into the
wall through a very narrow slit above the backsplash tile / below the
cabinets. Since my original post, I measured the resistance looking
back into the transformer. It only measures a few tenths of an ohm.
As first, that seemed "shorted" but I am guessing the secondary of a
transformer would look that way as well. At least I can tell the
transformer it isn't too far away.

Pat

On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:59:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".
I agree.

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. Really a handy thing to have for sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..
Good idea. I will look into that. Maybe I can rent one.

In article ,
wrote:

About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

I suppose it's unlikely, but the easiest thing to fix would be if all
the bulbs were simultaneously fried, leaving the rest of the system
intact. Did you verify that? Did you check the switch?

On May 30, 1:49*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

I suppose it's unlikely, but the easiest thing to fix would be if all
the bulbs were simultaneously fried, leaving the rest of the system
intact. Did you verify that? Did you check the switch?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As an add-on. Do you have a voltmeter to see if there is any voltage
coming out of the hidden transformer to the beginning of the bulb
string. Any chance the bulbs are in series and a failure of any one
bulb would take out all of them?

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:59:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".
I agree.

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. Really a handy thing to have for
sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..
Good idea. I will look into that. Maybe I can rent one.

I think they're cheap to buy, HF might even have them -- they have $10
clamp-on ammeters.
Radio Shack, HD have them, I think. $30??

I just don't know offhand what they're called -- signal tracers, wire
tracers, mebbe.
--
EA

On 5/30/2010 3:23 PM, hr(bob)
wrote:
On May 30, 1:49 pm, Smitty wrote:
In ,





wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

I suppose it's unlikely, but the easiest thing to fix would be if all
the bulbs were simultaneously fried, leaving the rest of the system
intact. Did you verify that? Did you check the switch?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As an add-on. Do you have a voltmeter to see if there is any voltage
coming out of the hidden transformer to the beginning of the bulb
string. Any chance the bulbs are in series and a failure of any one
bulb would take out all of them?
Also, remember that many of the so
called transformers are really
electronic switching power supplies.
That can be pretty small and hide easily
.... maybe behind the switch? These are
much more likely to be zapped by
lightening.

On Sun, 30 May 2010 15:27:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:59:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".
I agree.

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. Really a handy thing to have for
sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..
Good idea. I will look into that. Maybe I can rent one.

I think they're cheap to buy, HF might even have them -- they have $10
clamp-on ammeters.
Radio Shack, HD have them, I think. $30??

I just don't know offhand what they're called -- signal tracers, wire
tracers, mebbe.

OK. I'll look for one at HD or Lowe's.

To the other replies: Yes I have a multi-meter - 0 volts coming from
the transformer. The bulbs are in parallel. The switch is good.
Regarding the possibility of it being a switching power supply, I
hadn't thought of that. It could be. If it is, the output filter cap
must be shorted since it reads a few tenths of an ohm looking back
into the wires from the switch.

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:59:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?
Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".
I agree.

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. Really a handy thing to have for sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..
Good idea. I will look into that. Maybe I can rent one.

Harbor Freight is your friend. They have cheap Chinese ones for 20 bucks
or so. Not pro-grade, of course, but good enough for something like this.

On the TV shows, they usually tuck the transformer above the cabinets,
or in a nearby closet. Could even be in basement ceiling. They play
similar games with doorbell transformers.

--
aem sends...

On May 30, 2:38*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:59:01 -0400, "Existential Angst"



wrote:
wrote in message
.. .
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Well, by code, things like this can't be in a place without access. *If
behind drywall, there should be an access panel, the operative word being
"should".

I agree.

"Wands" are pretty available/cheap now, where you connect a signal to the
end halogen, and follow it through a headset of sorts, listening for the
strength of an audible signal. *Really a handy thing to have for sleuthing,
altho I forgot the generic term for this particular strategy.
Phone guys used to use this all the time, to find the right wire in wired
bundles..

Good idea. *I will look into that. *Maybe I can rent one.

"Wands" ROFL...

If you are referring to a toner and probe set that will run
you about $80 to $100 dollars for the equipment AND
you will need two 9v batteries to use it...

You would have to disconnect the line voltage AC
from the circuit by shutting off the breaker at your
panel... You can then open up a fixture to attach
the toner set and trace the wiring using the probe...

Doubtful that you will be able to find one of these
to rent, you can buy them at home depot or your
local electrical supply house...

Are you sure that the fixtures themselves don't
have transformers in them ?

~~ Evan

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 15:27:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

snip

I just don't know offhand what they're called -- signal tracers, wire
tracers, mebbe.

OK. I'll look for one at HD or Lowe's.

snip

Sometimes they're called "fox and hounds" -- you hook up the fox and
then use the hound to follow the wires; I think they're about 40 bucks
at Lowe's.

Two different sorts of signal tracers are being talked about. The
cheaper sort assume a live 120 volt circuit. You plug the generator
part into a live socket and trace the wiring with a probe. Excellent
for find which circuit breaker is powering the circuit and for tracing
wiring if it isn't too far away from the receiver probe. The other
type of tracer is typically used with twisted pair phone wires that are
unpowered. The battery operated generator is connected to a pair of
wires and the receiver probe is used to fiqure out which wires are which
in a bundle of wires.


On 5/30/2010 10:31 AM, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 10:59:52 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 30, 6:31?pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. ?We wanted some
undercounter lights included. ?The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. ?I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. ?He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. ?We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. ?All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter ?lights didn't work. ?I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. ?So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. ?I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. ?The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. ?The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. ?All that stuff
works. ?I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. ?That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. ?Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. ?Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat
There are several possiblities. I would start by taking the light
fittings out, you may well find there is an individual transformer
behind each light. Failing that, you just gotta follow the wires
back. Mirror and torch is handy to look in the holes where the lights
are. They/it won't be far away.
It might be better to abandon everything and start afresh.

The lights themselves are mounted in a metal raceway on the surface of
the cabinet bottoms. I am sure there are no individual transformers.
The wires from the lights then run to a very shallow surface mounted
box with a pushbutton switch in it. From there, the wires go into the
wall through a very narrow slit above the backsplash tile / below the
cabinets. Since my original post, I measured the resistance looking
back into the transformer. It only measures a few tenths of an ohm.
As first, that seemed "shorted" but I am guessing the secondary of a
transformer would look that way as well.

Not to mention the load of all those low voltage bulbs in the circuit.
What about that pushbutton? Is it a circuit breaker?

Evan wrote:

"Wands" ROFL...

If you are referring to a toner and probe set that will run
you about $80 to $100 dollars for the equipment AND
you will need two 9v batteries to use it...

You would have to disconnect the line voltage AC
from the circuit by shutting off the breaker at your
panel... You can then open up a fixture to attach
the toner set and trace the wiring using the probe...

Doubtful that you will be able to find one of these
to rent, you can buy them at home depot or your
local electrical supply house...

Are you sure that the fixtures themselves don't
have transformers in them ?


Here's one for ~$60.00
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...K5DCJF3ERGDPJJ

On May 30, 12:31*pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

Now would be the time to upgrade to T8 flourescent, they are 75% more
efficent, and since kitchens are usualy to hot any way your kitchen
will be alot cooler. An incandesant only outputs 4-6% of energy used
as visable light the rest of those watts is heat, I went T8 years ago.

On May 30, 12:31*pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat

Plus that transformer is an energy waster to further lower LPW

wrote in message
...
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?


The most common place to install a low voltage transformer is on top of the
cabinets if the space is accessible. Take a look.

On May 31, 12:20*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...





About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

The most common place to install a low voltage transformer is on top of the
cabinets if the space is accessible. *Take a look.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Had a similar situation recently and then found a 'hidden' (although
legally mounted and wired by a 'proper' electrician) fuse, behind a
removable bottom drawer and a metal cover!.

But had an idea before that; I have a shaver that when plugged in and
but even running, makes clicks on a radio... my idea ..... although
never used, was to hook up the shaver through an extension cord to the
'far end' of the dead circuit through some sort of temporary adapter.

Then follow the clicking wiring back, using a battery radio.
Suggestion anyway.

Good luck.

Wouldn't this be a good reason to get the 120 lights you wanted in the
begining ?
Less hassel.

Jerry


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage



http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974RuppCentair

On May 31, 10:20*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...





About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. *We wanted some
undercounter lights included. *The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. *I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. *He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. *We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. *All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter *lights didn't work. *I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. *So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. *I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. *The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. *The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. *All that stuff
works. *I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. *That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. *Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. *Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

The most common place to install a low voltage transformer is on top of the
cabinets if the space is accessible. *Take a look.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've seen them down in the basement below the kitchen as well.

On May 31, 8:42*pm, (Jerry - OHIO) wrote:
Wouldn't this be a good reason to get the 120 lights you wanted in the
begining ?
Less hassel.


Might be too late for that. If all the wiring that is run is low
voltage you can't just switch to 120V withour rewiring it, unless it
was the correct wire and installed to code to support 120V.

On Sun, 30 May 2010 22:20:59 -0600, cjt
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 15:27:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

snip

I just don't know offhand what they're called -- signal tracers, wire
tracers, mebbe.

OK. I'll look for one at HD or Lowe's.

snip

Sometimes they're called "fox and hounds" -- you hook up the fox and
then use the hound to follow the wires; I think they're about 40 bucks
at Lowe's.
I purchased one at Lowe's for $40. Sperry brand - ET4220L "LAN
tracker". It is a strange combination of really well thought out and
poorly implemented. The supplied batteries were leaking in the
package and the plastic parts don't fit well, but it works. You
attach clip leads (or an RJ 11 or RJ 45 or coax connector) to the
known end of the wire and then use the separate receiver to find the
warbling signal. While I haven't found the transformer yet, I have a
strong clue. As suggested by someone else, it may be in the space
just above the cabinets. In this case, that places it in the attic
above the kitchen. I definitely hear the signal up high on the wall.
I can't bring myself to climb up there today since it is hot and
dirty, but the next time I get the urge, I will see what I can find.

To those who suggested replacing the lights with florescents, it would
be just as difficult to install a new circuit as it is to find and
repair this one. I am normally a person who uses energy saving ideas,
but in this case, the fixtures have been used for no more than one
hour total in the past six years since they were installed. It took
us months to notice they didn't work. So, there is no energy savings
to be had. I just hate to have them installed but non-operational.



Pat

On 5/31/2010 12:41 PM, terry wrote:
On May 31, 12:20 pm, "John wrote:
wrote in message

...





About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. We wanted some
undercounter lights included. The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter lights didn't work. I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. All that stuff
works. I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

The most common place to install a low voltage transformer is on top of the
cabinets if the space is accessible. Take a look.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Had a similar situation recently and then found a 'hidden' (although
legally mounted and wired by a 'proper' electrician) fuse, behind a
removable bottom drawer and a metal cover!.

But had an idea before that; I have a shaver that when plugged in and
but even running, makes clicks on a radio... my idea ..... although
never used, was to hook up the shaver through an extension cord to the
'far end' of the dead circuit through some sort of temporary adapter.

Then follow the clicking wiring back, using a battery radio.
Suggestion anyway.

Good luck.


On a dead circuit like the one the OP has, the AM radio trick works
with either a commercially available tone generator or the cheap
route, using a door buzzer muffled somehow, towel or container, with
one wire coming off it to feed the RF noise into the light string so
it can be traced with the pocket AM radio. I've traced many a wire
inside a wall using this method. Oh yea, the buzzer can be powered
by either a battery or doorbell transformer. It will make a lot of
RF noise regardless.

TDD

It isn't that hard to pull wires up a wall from below.

Jerry


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage



http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974RuppCentair

On Mon, 31 May 2010 08:25:48 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2010 02:43:48 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 10:59:52 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 30, 6:31?pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. ?We wanted some
undercounter lights included. ?The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. ?I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. ?He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. ?We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. ?All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter ?lights didn't work. ?I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. ?So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. ?I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. ?The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. ?The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. ?All that stuff
works. ?I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. ?That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. ?Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. ?Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat
There are several possiblities. I would start by taking the light
fittings out, you may well find there is an individual transformer
behind each light. Failing that, you just gotta follow the wires
back. Mirror and torch is handy to look in the holes where the lights
are. They/it won't be far away.
It might be better to abandon everything and start afresh.

The lights themselves are mounted in a metal raceway on the surface of
the cabinet bottoms. I am sure there are no individual transformers.
The wires from the lights then run to a very shallow surface mounted
box with a pushbutton switch in it. From there, the wires go into the
wall through a very narrow slit above the backsplash tile / below the
cabinets. Since my original post, I measured the resistance looking
back into the transformer. It only measures a few tenths of an ohm.
As first, that seemed "shorted" but I am guessing the secondary of a
transformer would look that way as well.

Not to mention the load of all those low voltage bulbs in the circuit.
What about that pushbutton? Is it a circuit breaker?

The bulbs were disconnected when I measured the resistance. The
pushbutton is not a circuit breaker. Besides, no voltage is making it
to the switch.

Thanks for all the responses. I'll report back what I eventually
find.
As promised, this is my report back about what I found:

It took 10 months but I finally found time to to go up to the attic
and found a blown transformer attached to the ceiling joists. I
replaced it and all is well. The transformer was one of the newer
switching types rather than a real 60 Hz transformer. One of its
internal components was literally blown off the circuit board by the
lightning strike. I think it was a resistor but it was hard to tell
because the whole thing was potted in some sort of epoxy. There was a
chunk of epoxy loose in the box with half of the component embedded in
it. The other half was still on the circuit board.

On Mar 6, 7:13*am, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 08:25:48 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 02:43:48 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 10:59:52 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 30, 6:31?pm, wrote:
About 6 years ago, we had our kitchen remodelled. ?We wanted some
undercounter lights included. ?The contractor proposed a low voltage
set of lights. ?I said that I preferred 120 v since I hate humming
transformers. ?He said OK and proceeded to do the job.

Fast forward to last summer. ?We had a nearby lightning strike that
took out a lot of stuff - DVRs, various plug-in power supplies, a
Davis weather station, a garage door opener, etc. ?All of that was
repaired but a few months later, I noticed the seldomly used
undercounter ?lights didn't work. ?I started looking for the cause and
realized they were low voltage halogens rather than 120v. ?So
basically, there is a transformer somewhere in the kitchen with a
blown fuse or winding. ?I have resigned myself to having to remove
some drywall or tile to repair the problem, but I really don't want to
use the trial and error method to find the transformer. ?The lights
are near a number of 120 v circuits, but instead of tapping into those
circuits, they tied into the circuit for the island. ?The island has a
cooktop and some outlets for portable appliances. ?All that stuff
works. ?I suppose it is even possible that the transformer is in the
island and they ran 12 volt wire under the floor and up the wall to
get to the undercounter lights. ?That wouldn't be how I would do it,
but who knows. ?Between having hardwood floor, a tile backsplash, and
granite countertops, the repair won't be easy, but step one is finding
the transformer. ?Any ideas how to find it without tearing apart half
the kitchen?

Thanks,
Pat
There are several possiblities. *I would start by taking the light
fittings out, you may well find there is an individual transformer
behind each light. Failing that, you just gotta follow the wires
back. *Mirror and torch is handy to look in the holes where the lights
are. They/it won't be far away.
It might be better to abandon everything and start afresh.

The lights themselves are mounted in a metal raceway on the surface of
the cabinet bottoms. *I am sure there are no individual transformers.
The wires from the lights then run to a very shallow surface mounted
box with a pushbutton switch in it. *From there, the wires go into the
wall through a very narrow slit above the backsplash tile / below the
cabinets. *Since my original post, I measured the resistance looking
back into the transformer. *It only measures a few tenths of an ohm..
As first, that seemed "shorted" but I am guessing the secondary of a
transformer would look that way as well.

Not to mention the load of all those low voltage bulbs in the circuit.
What about that pushbutton? *Is it a circuit breaker?

The bulbs were disconnected when I measured the resistance. *The
pushbutton is not a circuit breaker. *Besides, no voltage is making it
to the switch.

Thanks for all the responses. *I'll report back what I eventually
find.

As promised, this is my report back about what I found:

It took 10 months but I finally found time to to go up to the attic
and found a blown transformer attached to the ceiling joists. *I
replaced it and all is well. *The transformer was one of the newer
switching types rather than a real 60 Hz transformer. *One of its
internal components was literally blown off the circuit board by the
lightning strike. *I think it was a resistor but it was hard to tell
because the whole thing was potted in some sort of epoxy. *There was a
chunk of epoxy loose in the box with half of the component embedded in
it. *The other half was still on the circuit board.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

thanks for the update its nice to know how things worked out