In another posting someone wrote .................. *Are you sure that
was a GFCI on the end and not an AFCI?"

AFIK I haven't seen one yet ................ but after all this house
and my neighbours are generally 30 to 40 years old.

A relative has spoken about them and their requirement for 'bedroom'
circuits? A new house, infill, is being built nearby and will take an
oppoortunity to talk with their electrician. I am presumng our local
code will require them for 'new construction'.

For my info however please could somebody care to explain in basic
terms how an AFCI works.

Many TIA

terry wrote in news:7ef87189-c011-466e-8b53-
:

In another posting someone wrote .................. *Are you sure that
was a GFCI on the end and not an AFCI?"

AFIK I haven't seen one yet ................ but after all this house
and my neighbours are generally 30 to 40 years old.

A relative has spoken about them and their requirement for 'bedroom'
circuits? A new house, infill, is being built nearby and will take an
oppoortunity to talk with their electrician. I am presumng our local
code will require them for 'new construction'.

For my info however please could somebody care to explain in basic
terms how an AFCI works.

Many TIA

I am not saying that AFCIs are a bad idea, but ...
From http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/afcifac8.pdf
"Annually, over 40,000 fires are attributed to home electrical wiring.
These fires result in over 350 deaths and over 1,400 injuries each year"

If one compares the number of these deaths with other causes of deaths,
AFCIs can only prevent a very small number, even if applied to all
potential situations. Since I am guessing that most of these types of
fires occur in old housing, not new, and are exacerbated by shady
construction/renovation/illegal subdivision, it seems that only a very
small percentage of potential lives saved would actually be saved by this
new code requirement.

Question to the cognescenti: Are these devices really ready for
incorporation in the code requirements? How will they hold up after 40
years of neglect?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFCI


In ,
Han typed:
terry wrote in
news:7ef87189-c011-466e-8b53-
:

In another posting someone wrote .................. *Are
you sure that was a GFCI on the end and not an AFCI?"

AFIK I haven't seen one yet ................ but after all
this house and my neighbours are generally 30 to 40 years
old.

A relative has spoken about them and their requirement for
'bedroom' circuits? A new house, infill, is being built
nearby and will take an oppoortunity to talk with their
electrician. I am presumng our local code will require
them for 'new construction'.

For my info however please could somebody care to explain
in basic terms how an AFCI works.

Many TIA

I am not saying that AFCIs are a bad idea, but ...
From http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/afcifac8.pdf
"Annually, over 40,000 fires are attributed to home
electrical wiring. These fires result in over 350 deaths
and over 1,400 injuries each year"

If one compares the number of these deaths with other
causes of deaths, AFCIs can only prevent a very small
number, even if applied to all potential situations. Since
I am guessing that most of these types of fires occur in
old housing, not new, and are exacerbated by shady
construction/renovation/illegal subdivision, it seems that
only a very small percentage of potential lives saved would
actually be saved by this new code requirement.

Question to the cognescenti: Are these devices really
ready for incorporation in the code requirements? How will
they hold up after 40 years of neglect?

They've designed to be neglected by bozos like you. What kind of PM would
YOU do?

On May 30, 6:00*pm, "Twayne" wrote:

snip

Question to the cognescenti: *Are these devices really
ready for incorporation in the code requirements? *How will
they hold up after 40 years of neglect?

They've designed to be neglected by bozos like you. What kind of PM would
YOU do?

The instructions that came with the Square D AFCIs I installed
recently call for periodic testing.

Joe

"Twayne" wrote in
:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFCI


In ,
Han typed:
terry wrote in
news:7ef87189-c011-466e-8b53-
:

In another posting someone wrote .................. *Are
you sure that was a GFCI on the end and not an AFCI?"

AFIK I haven't seen one yet ................ but after all
this house and my neighbours are generally 30 to 40 years
old.

A relative has spoken about them and their requirement for
'bedroom' circuits? A new house, infill, is being built
nearby and will take an oppoortunity to talk with their
electrician. I am presumng our local code will require
them for 'new construction'.

For my info however please could somebody care to explain
in basic terms how an AFCI works.

Many TIA

I am not saying that AFCIs are a bad idea, but ...
From http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/afcifac8.pdf
"Annually, over 40,000 fires are attributed to home
electrical wiring. These fires result in over 350 deaths
and over 1,400 injuries each year"

If one compares the number of these deaths with other
causes of deaths, AFCIs can only prevent a very small
number, even if applied to all potential situations. Since
I am guessing that most of these types of fires occur in
old housing, not new, and are exacerbated by shady
construction/renovation/illegal subdivision, it seems that
only a very small percentage of potential lives saved would
actually be saved by this new code requirement.

Question to the cognescenti: Are these devices really
ready for incorporation in the code requirements? How will
they hold up after 40 years of neglect?

They've designed to be neglected by bozos like you. What kind of PM
would YOU do?

Thanks for the compliment (not). You now make perfectly clear that
everyone except me will regularly check the AFCI, just like everyone
except me checks their GFCIs on a monthly basis.

Oh, there are more people perhaps who do not check their A/GFCIs on a
monthly basis?Those are the same people who to an exces use extension
cords that are not rated for the load they use them for?

But, but that would make my point. Orderingthe use of safety devices
that do not take into account the bozos who will be using them will at
best give everyone around them a false sense of security.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On May 30, Someon has written


"Those are the same people who to an excess use extension
cords that are not rated for the load they use them for?"

Odd that it should be mentioned ..................................

Had just finished fixing relative's aquarium installation that had
failed while the owner is away working.
Bad extension cord sockets, coming out from behind a desk, staples
through edges of extension cord!
Defective starter in fluors. strip light designed for aquarium use.
Another strip light; clearly marked 'Dry location only' had been added
above tank ! And had smoked. And was so corroded it was hard to get
the tube out even when dismounted.
The smoking s/c possibly damaging the timer switch; fortunately light
loads but the whole patched together with cheap dollar store
adapters!
With virtually nothing grounded!
Not too impressed with this particular son in law's workmanship!

In another posting someone wrote .................. *Are you sure that
was a GFCI on the end and not an AFCI?"

AFIK I haven't seen one yet ................ but after all this house
and my neighbours are generally 30 to 40 years old.

A relative has spoken about them and their requirement for 'bedroom'
circuits? A new house, infill, is being built nearby and will take an
oppoortunity to talk with their electrician. I am presumng our local
code will require them for 'new construction'.

For my info however please could somebody care to explain in basic
terms how an AFCI works.



*That was me. Short answer: If you have a loose connection which causes
arcing and generates heat the AFCI will shut down the circuit.

*That was me. Short answer: If you have a loose connection which causes
arcing and generates heat the AFCI will shut down the circuit.

Some electric motors with brushes arc. If I plug in my drill will the AFCI
shut down?

In article
leaccesscompany,
"Pat" wrote:


*That was me. Short answer: If you have a loose connection which causes
arcing and generates heat the AFCI will shut down the circuit.

Some electric motors with brushes arc. If I plug in my drill will the AFCI
shut down?

It isn't supposed to. It distinguishes between normal (in a motor) and
abnormal (loose connection) arcing.

On May 30, 1:40*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

AFCIs must therefore detect momentary breaks (intermittency?) in the
circuit?????????????

And the AFCI feature is built into the circuit breaker; correct?

Cos many bedside lamps etc. have two (usually now polarized) wire
plugs often plugged into duplex outlets behind beds and other
furniture. Sometimes with a multiplicity of those darn el-cheapo
adpters; again.

Reminds me also; have a defective (open circuit) duplex GFCI outlet in
wall of outside shed I must replace.

Thanks for any AFCI info.

In ,
terry typed:
On May 30, 1:40 pm, Smitty Two
wrote:

AFCIs must therefore detect momentary breaks
(intermittency?) in the circuit?????????????

And the AFCI feature is built into the circuit breaker;
correct?

Cos many bedside lamps etc. have two (usually now
polarized) wire plugs often plugged into duplex outlets
behind beds and other furniture. Sometimes with a
multiplicity of those darn el-cheapo adpters; again.

Reminds me also; have a defective (open circuit) duplex
GFCI outlet in wall of outside shed I must replace.

Thanks for any AFCI info.

http://www.arcadvisor.com/afci.html

From UL:


Quote:
This category covers arc-fault circuit interrupters (AFCI) intended to
mitigate the effects of arcing faults that may pose a risk of fire ignition
under certain conditions if the arcing persists.

These devices have been investigated to determine their ability to
recognize and react to arcing faults. They have also been investigated to
determine resistance to unwanted tripping because of the presence of arcing
that occurs in control and utilization equipment under normal operating
conditions and to verify that operation is not unduly inhibited by the
presence of loads and circuit characteristics that may mask or attenuate
unwanted arcing.


It's alway amazing how lazy people can be to not bother to search out
information themselves when it's so readily available.
HTH,
Twayne`