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What are those strange screws used for locks?
Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I
noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:12:37 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? They're finely spaced but not more shallow than the other threads, right? I haven't seen them but from your description, I think the screw is meant to screw in quickly most of the way, and then slowly but with more staying power for the last bit. But does that really solve any problem. AFAIK, there is no risk of a lock strick screw coming out head first. The problem, as when someone kicked in my door the first summer I lived here, is that the wood behind the jamb isn't thick enough sideways, or the screws aren't long enough to spread the load when the door is kicked. The heads of my strike screws didn't move to the side at all. but the door jamb cracked, probably more than a half inch, and then sprang back all but a quarter inch. And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 10, 10:12*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... ~~ Evan |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote: On Mar 10, 10:12*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... Oh. I was wrong, and you're probably man enough to admit it. ~~ Evan |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 11, 3:18*am, mm wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan wrote: On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw.. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... *It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... Oh. I was wrong, and you're probably man enough to admit it. ~~ Evan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, you had my head spinning trying to figure out how a small amount of finer threads near the head could result in the screw going in slower near the end. It would still have the other 80% of the coarser threads deep in wood pulling it along too, no? I couldn't figure out what they were for either, but the metal explanation sounds logical. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Evan wrote:
On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... That sounds like a correct answer. I've also wondered about those weird screws. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Some doors or jambs are already cut for 8-32 threads. With
the "hybrid" screws, one screw either does wood screw usage, or goes into threaded metal doors, or metal jambs. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
"mm" wrote in message ... And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. -- Nonny Luxury cars now offer a great seating option for politicians. These seats blow heated air onto their backside in the winter and cooled air in the summer. If sold to voters, though, the car seats are modified to just blow smoke up the voter's rump year-round |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 11, 4:35*am, wrote:
On Mar 11, 3:18*am, mm wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan wrote: On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? D "puzzled" N -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... *It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... Oh. I was wrong, and you're probably man enough to admit it. ~~ Evan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, you had my head spinning trying to figure out how a small amount of finer threads near the head could result in the screw going in slower near the end. * It would still have the other 80% of the coarser threads deep in wood pulling it along too, no? * I couldn't figure out what they were for either, but the metal explanation sounds logical.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It is logical only if the fine thread portion is larger diameter than the course thread part. I have never seen screws as described but I _could_ open the new lockset I bought a month ago....nah, that would only result in posting a fact, why screw up speculation? :) Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/11/2010 10:05 AM Nonny spake thus:
"mm" wrote in message ... And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. I'm not the one you asked, but in my installation there was no need for such substitution. The lock kit came with extra-long screws to use to secure the deadbolt strike. (No adjustable 2-piece strike in this case, though.) -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/11/2010 10:16 AM Harry K spake thus:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan wrote: Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... It is logical only if the fine thread portion is larger diameter than the course thread part. I have never seen screws as described but I _could_ open the new lockset I bought a month ago....nah, that would only result in posting a fact, why screw up speculation? :) The machine-threaded part of the screw appears to be exactly the same root and overall diameter as the wood-screw part. hard to see how the wood-screw threads wouldn't mess up the machine threads in the jamb. You probably have these installed somewhere in your house. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/10/2010 11:42 PM Evan spake thus:
On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote: Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... That makes perfect sense. So I think I'll go with my instincts next time and just throw those away and replace them with regular wood screws. I don't think those machine threads hold as well as wood threads would (in wood) (if a woodchuck could ...) -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Nonny wrote:
"mm" wrote in message ... And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? I've done that on a lot of my doors in the past. Also a few long screws on the hinges. On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. I've used long heavy duty strike plates that combine the latch and the dead bolt holes into one piece. I've seen the wrap around piece of sheetmetal for on the door to strengthen the latch and deadbolt but never used one. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
I've used these in machine thread applications. Yes, I'd
also wonder that the wood screw threads would disturb the machine threads. However, it's worked out and not been a problem. The screws go in, and appear to engage the machine threads properly. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... The machine-threaded part of the screw appears to be exactly the same root and overall diameter as the wood-screw part. hard to see how the wood-screw threads wouldn't mess up the machine threads in the jamb. You probably have these installed somewhere in your house. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... Installing a lockset today (el cheapo Kwikset entry w/deadbolt), I noticed they included two of those weird screws in the hardware package. I worked out that they were intended to hold the passage lock strike to the jamb. They're regular flat-head wood screws, except that the threads just under the head change from coarse to fine, almost like a machine screw. Does anyone know the purpose, or the rationale of using these screws? I've often seem them in lock installations, but nowhere else. Are those fine threads supposed to grip the wood better? I am a locksmith and the purpose of the screws strange thread pattern is so thy can be used as a wood screw or a machine screw. If I remember correctly they will thread into an 8-32 tapped hole without buggering anything up. -- Roger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:27 -0800, "Nonny" wrote:
"mm" wrote in message .. . And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote: Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... ~~ Evan The best answer. A metal / glass window arched door, costing 6K, needed a lockset installed and had the extra packet of screws. Those 'funny' screws are intended for the metal door frame. Trick is - don't strip the threads. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
wrote in message ... installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. .. . . or use common sense and an oversized pilot hole to prevent racking. I never warped a casing when I drilled an oversized "slip" hole for the screw and then didn't overtighten it. -- Nonny Luxury cars now offer a great seating option for politicians. These seats blow heated air onto their backside in the winter and cooled air in the summer. If sold to voters, though, the car seats are modified to just blow smoke up the voter's rump year-round |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 11, 10:44*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/11/2010 10:16 AM Harry K spake thus: * On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:42:20 -0800 (PST), Evan* wrote: * Those are called combination machine-wood screws... The lock manufacturer supplies them in the lock kit so that you can install the strike plate included with the lock with the same screws on both wood and metal door frames... It saves the lock manufacturer money by omitting inclusion of two pairs of screws one of which would go unused and be discarded... It is logical only if the fine thread portion is larger diameter than the course thread part. *I have never seen screws as described but I _could_ open the new lockset I bought a month ago....nah, that would only result in posting a fact, why screw up speculation? *:) The machine-threaded part of the screw appears to be exactly the same root and overall diameter as the wood-screw part. hard to see how the wood-screw threads wouldn't mess up the machine threads in the jamb. You probably have these installed somewhere in your house. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Not in my house. I rehabbed a wreck and reinstalled every door in it...about 30 years ago though. Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:47:23 -0800, "Nonny" wrote:
wrote in message .. . installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. . . . or use common sense and an oversized pilot hole to prevent racking. I never warped a casing when I drilled an oversized "slip" hole for the screw and then didn't overtighten it. As long as... It's still stronger if shimmed. The screws won't bend as easily. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
wrote in message ... On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:47:23 -0800, "Nonny" wrote: wrote in message . .. installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. . . . or use common sense and an oversized pilot hole to prevent racking. I never warped a casing when I drilled an oversized "slip" hole for the screw and then didn't overtighten it. As long as... It's still stronger if shimmed. The screws won't bend as easily. There's no argument there. The problem is how to shim an already trimmed-out door casing. It's a big job getting the trim off to insert shims. Perhaps the person could inject a filler to bridge the space between casing and crip? IMHO, many of the trim guys I've known shim BOTH sides of the casing when installing a door, including the area by the strike plate for just this reason. YMMV -- Nonny When we talk to God, we're praying, but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic. What's the deal? |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:27 -0800, "Nonny" wrote:
"mm" wrote in message .. . And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On Yes. I put more wood in the jamb and screws at least 3 inches, and a brass plates that wraps around the door by the locks to keep the door from cracking when kicked, and I finished installing the burglar alarm before I went to work again. It took a very long Monday (after the door was kicked in on Sunday.) I had almost finished installing the window and door switches and the sirens for the burglar alarm, but I had to drill up from the basement to where the alarm control panel went next to the front door. some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:54 -0600, "
wrote: It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. What do you mean by casing? I don't see how longer screws could screw up anything if they are put in all the way. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 11, 10:24*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:54 -0600, " wrote: It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? *On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. *Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. *;-) *It'll make the assembly stronger, too. What do you mean by casing? *I don't see how longer screws could screw up anything if they are put in all the way. If there is no shimming behind the jamb where you are inserting the screw, the screw will pull the jamb into the framing when it it tightened...or at least try to pull it in. I'm trying to recall if I shimmed behind the striker plates in all the doors I did way back when but can't. Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 11, 10:23*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:27 -0800, "Nonny" wrote: "mm" wrote in message .. . And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. * *But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. *:) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? *On Yes. *I put more wood in the jamb and screws at least 3 inches, and a brass plates that wraps around the door by the locks to keep the door from cracking when kicked, and I finished installing the burglar alarm before I went to work again. *It took a very long Monday (after the door was kicked in on Sunday.) I had almost finished installing the window and door switches and the sirens for the burglar alarm, but I had to drill up from the basement to where the alarm control panel went next to the front door. some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. *Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Of course the best way to install a 'secure' door is make it open _out_. That way the entire jamb has to give way vice some flimsy 'door stop' and striker plate area. No people, there is no code that says doors have to open 'in'. Opening out saves an amazing amount of space inside. Can be a problem if youwant a storm door though. Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/12/2010 7:57 AM Harry K spake thus:
Of course the best way to install a 'secure' door is make it open _out_. That way the entire jamb has to give way vice some flimsy 'door stop' and striker plate area. No people, there is no code that says doors have to open 'in'. Opening out saves an amazing amount of space inside. Can be a problem if youwant a storm door though. No, there's no code requirement against outswing doors. But perhaps there oughta be. The door I replaced that prompted this thread is an outswing door. Not being an expert on door replacements, but willing to tackle a new task, I checked with my contractor friend who's much more knowledgeable than I about such matters. When I described the situation (door falling apart, door frame rotting), he immediately told me that outswing exterior doors are just a bad idea all around. This particular one wasn't helped by the fact that it was installed completely wrong and was destined to fail: the door jamb was installed flush with the edge of the exterior stucco, with absolutely no trim at all, so of course rain found its way in and started rotting things all around. (Luckily I only had to replace completely rotted-out framing at one place in a bottom corner.) The new door is much better: I used stucco mold, so the door is at least recessed a little but from the outer wall, with flashing installed under the stucco. But it's still a problematic installation. Unfortunately there wasn't room for an inswing door because of a step that was too close. Also used a steel door instead of the old solid-core one with hardboard panels. That sucker was so heavy I had to cut it into pieces to haul it away. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/12/2010 7:57 AM Harry K spake thus: Of course the best way to install a 'secure' door is make it open _out_. That way the entire jamb has to give way vice some flimsy 'door stop' and striker plate area. No people, there is no code that says doors have to open 'in'. Opening out saves an amazing amount of space inside. Can be a problem if youwant a storm door though. No, there's no code requirement against outswing doors. But perhaps there oughta be. doesn't the fire dept like to see exterior inswing doors for ease of access in emergencies? |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Harry K wrote:
On Mar 11, 10:23 pm, mm wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:27 -0800, "Nonny" wrote: "mm" wrote in message ... And when I got home, 8PM on a summer Sunday evening, the door was ajar. But I never found anything missing, not the new car radio still in the box on the basement workbench, not the fancy home burglar alarm, still in boxes on the bedroom floor, and not even the cookies on the kitchen table. All I can imagine is that the dog next door, which I hated because its barking woke me up in the morning and wouldn't let me get to sleep at night, barked when he heard the noise and scared away the burglar. :) D "puzzled" N It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On Yes. I put more wood in the jamb and screws at least 3 inches, and a brass plates that wraps around the door by the locks to keep the door from cracking when kicked, and I finished installing the burglar alarm before I went to work again. It took a very long Monday (after the door was kicked in on Sunday.) I had almost finished installing the window and door switches and the sirens for the burglar alarm, but I had to drill up from the basement to where the alarm control panel went next to the front door. some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Of course the best way to install a 'secure' door is make it open _out_. That way the entire jamb has to give way vice some flimsy 'door stop' and striker plate area. No people, there is no code that says doors have to open 'in'. Opening out saves an amazing amount of space inside. Can be a problem if youwant a storm door though. Were I last lived in PA there definitely was a code that 2 exterior doors had to open in. With a heavy snow and drifting it can become very difficult to open a door that is snowed in. I suppose with a storm door you can remove the glass and crawl out? Never quite understood that situation. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
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What are those strange screws used for locks?
Harry K wrote:
On Mar 11, 10:24 pm, mm wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:54 -0600, " wrote: It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. ;-) It'll make the assembly stronger, too. What do you mean by casing? I don't see how longer screws could screw up anything if they are put in all the way. If there is no shimming behind the jamb where you are inserting the screw, the screw will pull the jamb into the framing when it it tightened...or at least try to pull it in. I'm trying to recall if I shimmed behind the striker plates in all the doors I did way back when but can't. Harry K My first exterior door installation, also my only one, the latch side of the opening was so darn square that I just put it directly against the framing and only shimmed on the hinge side. Seems to work well. Is anything wrong with that approach? |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
chaniarts wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/12/2010 7:57 AM Harry K spake thus: Of course the best way to install a 'secure' door is make it open _out_. That way the entire jamb has to give way vice some flimsy 'door stop' and striker plate area. No people, there is no code that says doors have to open 'in'. Opening out saves an amazing amount of space inside. Can be a problem if youwant a storm door though. No, there's no code requirement against outswing doors. But perhaps there oughta be. doesn't the fire dept like to see exterior inswing doors for ease of access in emergencies? Where the building can have a significant number of people in it, the doors have to open out. Else in an emergency if people get to the door before it is open they can pack and it is impossible to get out - has happened many times. Also likely applies to interior doors in the path of egress. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Mar 12, 3:58*pm, Tony wrote:
Harry K wrote: On Mar 11, 10:24 pm, mm wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:54 -0600, " wrote: It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? *On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. *Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. *;-) *It'll make the assembly stronger, too. What do you mean by casing? *I don't see how longer screws could screw up anything if they are put in all the way. If there is no shimming behind the jamb where you are inserting the screw, the screw will pull the jamb into the framing when it it tightened...or at least try to pull it in. *I'm trying to recall if I shimmed behind the striker plates in all the doors I did way back when but can't. Harry K My first exterior door installation, also my only one, the latch side of the opening was so darn square that I just put it directly against the framing and only shimmed on the hinge side. *Seems to work well. *Is anything wrong with that approach?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No reason that I can think of. Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:53:18 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote: On Mar 11, 10:24*pm, mm wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:54 -0600, " wrote: It's a very inexpensive and quick thing, but have you considered removing the screws of your strike plate and replacing them with 3" ones that reach well through the casing and into the crip? *On some of my exterior doors, the strike plate for the deadbolt has an inner reinforcing plate with long screws provided for just this purpose. *Once installed, the adjustable strike plate is screwed on over top of it. If you're going to use long screws for security, you should also shim between the casing and the frame so the screws don't screw up the casing. *;-) *It'll make the assembly stronger, too. What do you mean by casing? *I don't see how longer screws could screw up anything if they are put in all the way. If there is no shimming behind the jamb where you are inserting the screw, the screw will pull the jamb into the framing when it it tightened...or at least try to pull it in. I'm trying to recall if I shimmed behind the striker plates in all the doors I did way back when but can't. I see what casing means. Thanks. Yeah, I wouldn't have done that. I would have seen the problem in advance. As I recall there was shimming in the door jamb but I added extra wood beyond jamb, the shimming, and what the shim was against. I must have taken off the door molding, but maybe I did something else too, since that wouldn't have exposed much. There have been two strings of burglaries at different times since that summer, but amazingly they caught both of the thiefs. In one case, he stole a check and they caught him when he tried to cash it. In the other case, the police woudn't tell me all the details, but it seems they figured out where he lived, staked out his place in the morning, followed him here and waited while he broke in through the back sliding glass door. Had a dog out front and a helicopter on alert if he got away, but they just arrested him when he was ready to leave. The homeowner was annoyed that they let him rummage through his house, but this way they had an iron-clad case with almost no need for anything other than police testimony. I think they both went to jail, but it's been 20 years since one of them. He must be out by now. Harry K |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Like the theatre in Chicago, so many years ago. Inswinging
exit doors, not a good idea. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "bud--" wrote in message ... doesn't the fire dept like to see exterior inswing doors for ease of access in emergencies? Where the building can have a significant number of people in it, the doors have to open out. Else in an emergency if people get to the door before it is open they can pack and it is impossible to get out - has happened many times. Also likely applies to interior doors in the path of egress. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Those egress sure can be nasty. That makes them means of
egress. When they get out of their cage, they can walk along the path of egress. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "bud--" wrote in message ... Also likely applies to interior doors in the path of egress. |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/13/2010 10:25 AM Stormin Mormon spake thus:
Those egress sure can be nasty. That makes them means of egress. When they get out of their cage, they can walk along the path of egress. You must be referring to the trick of that old fraudster Barnum, who put signs in his houses of amusement saying "This Way to the Egress!". "Mommy, when are we gonna see the Egress?" By the way, your posts are still screwed up (all quoted material is below your sig). Any plans to fix that? -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
Yes, that's good old PT Barnum.
I've had my PC to the shop, and the posts are still screwed up. Sorry. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... On 3/13/2010 10:25 AM Stormin Mormon spake thus: Those egress sure can be nasty. That makes them means of egress. When they get out of their cage, they can walk along the path of egress. You must be referring to the trick of that old fraudster Barnum, who put signs in his houses of amusement saying "This Way to the Egress!". "Mommy, when are we gonna see the Egress?" By the way, your posts are still screwed up (all quoted material is below your sig). Any plans to fix that? -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On 3/14/2010 2:45 PM Stormin Mormon spake thus:
Yes, that's good old PT Barnum. I've had my PC to the shop, and the posts are still screwed up. Sorry. What does having your computer worked on have to do with the way your posts are formatted? It's not a hardware problem, you know. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:44:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote: On 3/14/2010 2:45 PM Stormin Mormon spake thus: Yes, that's good old PT Barnum. I've had my PC to the shop, and the posts are still screwed up. Sorry. What does having your computer worked on have to do with the way your posts are formatted? It's not a hardware problem, you know. A sample question on the net: "When I do a reply OE automatically sets me up for top posting and puts my signature under the double dash thing. How can I tell it to set up for bottom posting? For that matter, how can I tell it not to hide my signature under the double dash?" Answer (s) http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/...m-posting.aspx You may have to water board Stormy... |
What are those strange screws used for locks?
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... On 3/14/2010 2:45 PM Stormin Mormon spake thus: Yes, that's good old PT Barnum. I've had my PC to the shop, and the posts are still screwed up. Sorry. What does having your computer worked on have to do with the way your posts are formatted? It's not a hardware problem, you know. -- You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" Top posting has its disadvantages. Chris can't grasp the basics of snipping and thread structure. I doubt he will comprehend anything about electronics. Prove me wrong, Chris. Steve |
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