What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it ?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Jan 10, 8:54*am, "desgnr" wrote:
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it ?

On a small cabinet without a big load, some people will just hang it
off of the cabinets on either side, but the safer way is to open up
the wall behind the cabinet and install blocking between the two
studs. The access area will be hidden by the cabinet, so it's simple
and fast enough.

R

desgnr wrote:
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it ?

12" can usually get screwed to the cabinets on either side, and be
strong enough. If they makes you nervous, before you hang the cabinets,
cut out a strip of drywall all the way across before you hang the
cabinets, and lay in a strip of 1/2 " plywood (NOT OSB), and screw that
to the studs. Position it so the cabinets will cover it, of course, and
if the crack isn't tight, cover it with tape. A 12" strip across the top
will probably be plenty- that is what takes most of the weight.

--
aem sends...

On Jan 10, 9:26*am, aemeijers wrote:
desgnr wrote:
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it ?

12" can usually get screwed to the cabinets on either side, and be
strong enough. If they makes you nervous, before you hang the cabinets,
cut out a strip of drywall all the way across before you hang the
cabinets, and lay in a strip of 1/2 " plywood (NOT OSB), and screw that
to the studs. Position it so the cabinets will cover it, of course, and
if the crack isn't tight, cover it with tape. A 12" strip across the top
will probably be plenty- that is what takes most of the weight.

--
aem sends...

Thats the way I hung the last ones I did. I also cut a 3/4 inch wide
piece of plywood and fastened it to the wall. This was used as a
cleat to sit the back of the cabinet on during installation and was
supposed to be temporary, A decision was made to leave it there. That
was OK since the cabinets were made to take lights on the bottom and
the cleat could not be seen.

Jimmie

On Jan 10, 11:34*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Jan 10, 9:26*am, aemeijers wrote:

desgnr wrote:
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it ?

12" can usually get screwed to the cabinets on either side, and be
strong enough. If they makes you nervous, before you hang the cabinets,
cut out a strip of drywall all the way across before you hang the
cabinets, and lay in a strip of 1/2 " plywood (NOT OSB), and screw that
to the studs. Position it so the cabinets will cover it, of course, and
if the crack isn't tight, cover it with tape. A 12" strip across the top
will probably be plenty- that is what takes most of the weight.

--
aem sends...

Thats the way I hung the last ones I did. I also cut a 3/4 inch wide
piece *of plywood and fastened it to the wall. This was used as a
cleat to sit the back of the cabinet on during installation and was
supposed to be temporary, A decision was made to leave it there. That
was OK since the cabinets were made to take lights on the bottom and
the cleat could not be seen.

Along those same lines, you can decide to hang the whole run of wall
cabinets on French cleats. There are a couple of minor caveats, but
it's a great system, self-leveling cabinets, ease of installation,
ease of running wires, etc.

R

"desgnr" wrote in message
...
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"desgnr" wrote in message
...
What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

On Jan 10, 12:32*pm, "benick" wrote:
"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work.

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:
"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.


That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

On Jan 10, 2:22*pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! *;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

A few observations:
- adding a layer of 1/2" CDX won't flatten a wall. Both drywall and
CDX will follow whatever is going on with the framing.
- locating one stud, to locate them all, works fine if you have a
house that was never remodeled and is a relatively 'new' house (less
than 100 years). Otherwise it's a total crap shoot guessing where the
studs are.
- a hanging rail, like IKEA uses for their cabinets, is the evolution
of the French cleat, and is far superior in pretty much all aspects.
It's faster to install cabinets, trivial to remove them if you want to
get access the wall behind them or want to remodel, and you don't have
to cover a wall with plywood when you really only need the 'extra' in
a few select places.
- tiling on top of plywood is a hack in almost anybody's book.

I don't make a big fuss over it because it's so easy to open up
drywall and insert/attach blocking if it's all going to be covered by
the cabinets. I wouldn't _argue_ if someone were to think ahead, but
I don't expect it and, well, things change.

R

On Jan 10, 3:35*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 10, 2:22*pm, "benick" wrote:





"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

....
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! *;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL....

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

A few observations:
- adding a layer of 1/2" CDX won't flatten a wall. *Both drywall and
CDX will follow whatever is going on with the framing.
- locating one stud, to locate them all, works fine if you have a
house that was never remodeled and is a relatively 'new' house (less
than 100 years). *Otherwise it's a total crap shoot guessing where the
studs are.
- a hanging rail, like IKEA uses for their cabinets, is the evolution
of the French cleat, and is far superior in pretty much all aspects.
It's faster to install cabinets, trivial to remove them if you want to
get access the wall behind them or want to remodel, and you don't have
to cover a wall with plywood when you really only need the 'extra' in
a few select places.
- tiling on top of plywood is a hack in almost anybody's book.

I don't make a big fuss over it because it's so easy to open up
drywall and insert/attach blocking if it's all going to be covered by
the cabinets. *I wouldn't _argue_ if someone were to think ahead, but
I don't expect it and, well, things change.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I used French cleats for the cabinets in my shop. I made them from
plywood strips. I will probably malke the next ones of metal unless I
can buy them cheaper made in China.

Jimmie

On Jan 10, 4:02*pm, JIMMIE wrote:

I used French cleats for the cabinets in my shop. I made them from
plywood strips. I will probably malke the next ones of metal unless I
can buy them cheaper made in China.

Google 'cabinet hanging rail' and check the images. There are a
number of options, some requiring cabinet modification (holes for the
bracket to protrude through) some not. There are some inexpensive Z-
shaped extrusions in aluminum that I wouldn't trust for loaded
cabinetry. Here's one that is strong enough:
http://attractiveframes.com/cahacl.html
This place will send you some free samples:
http://www.monarchmetal.com/pages/panelclip.html

R

On Jan 10, 2:22*pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! *;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

Benick,

I don't know what kind of newsreader you post with, but typically
there is some kind of character preceding the text from the post you
are responding to.

In the post where you responded to my comments, your text is mixed
right in with mine with no way to tell who said what.

May I suggest you figure out what is going on so that your responses
are easier to read?

Thanks!

On Jan 10, 2:22*pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! *;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

A few observations:
- adding a layer of 1/2" CDX won't flatten a wall. Both drywall and
CDX will follow whatever is going on with the framing.
- locating one stud, to locate them all, works fine if you have a
house that was never remodeled and is a relatively 'new' house (less
than 100 years). Otherwise it's a total crap shoot guessing where the
studs are.

DUH...We ARE talking about a new or remodeled homes...And your bull****
observation that plywood doesn't flatten out the wall is well , just that ,
BULL****...Ever see a ceiling that wasn't strapped compared to one that was
???


- a hanging rail, like IKEA uses for their cabinets, is the evolution
of the French cleat, and is far superior in pretty much all aspects.
It's faster to install cabinets, trivial to remove them if you want to
get access the wall behind them or want to remodel, and you don't have
to cover a wall with plywood when you really only need the 'extra' in
a few select places.
- tiling on top of plywood is a hack in almost anybody's book.


Not everybody has IKEA cabinets with french cleats...Never heard of them
personally so can't comment beyond that...Don't know about tiling so I will
defer to others who do know...Have seen it alot though...Same for tile over
drywall for a backsplash....


I don't make a big fuss over it because it's so easy to open up
drywall and insert/attach blocking if it's all going to be covered by
the cabinets. I wouldn't _argue_ if someone were to think ahead, but
I don't expect it and, well, things change.

Yea it's always easier to do things 2 or 3 times...Especially if wires or
plumbing are involved....LOL...

R

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.



I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have been
on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper towel
holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you use a an
anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke a
hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the reader...never
done that before...i'll check it out...

On Jan 10, 4:46*pm, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

A few observations:
- adding a layer of 1/2" CDX won't flatten a wall. *Both drywall and
CDX will follow whatever is going on with the framing.
- locating one stud, to locate them all, works fine if you have a
house that was never remodeled and is a relatively 'new' house (less
than 100 years). *Otherwise it's a total crap shoot guessing where the
studs are.

DUH...We ARE talking about a new or remodeled homes...And your bull****
observation that plywood doesn't flatten out the wall is well , just that ,
BULL****...Ever see a ceiling that wasn't strapped compared to one that was
???

Strapping is not plywood. Strapping is most commonly shimmed to
correct for defects in the flatness of the ceiling joists. Strapping
is also a) a regional thing, and b) far less common with engineered
floor joists due to their uniformity and straightness. If the
strapping is not shimmed, then the strapping will just follow the
framing, like the CDX would, and you'll have exactly the same
situation with an out-of-plane framing job.

- a hanging rail, like IKEA uses for their cabinets, is the evolution
of the French cleat, and is far superior in pretty much all aspects.
It's faster to install cabinets, trivial to remove them if you want to
get access the wall behind them or want to remodel, and you don't have
to cover a wall with plywood when you really only need the 'extra' in
a few select places.
- tiling on top of plywood is a hack in almost anybody's book.

Not everybody has IKEA cabinets with french cleats...Never heard of them
personally so can't comment beyond that...

Your background is in drywall, right? I'm a little different - I do
it all. From the initial contact with the customer to turning over
the keys. I'm hands on at every point of the project. The only
trades I sub out on most jobs are HVAC and electrical.

I get frustrated with some of the lag in adopting superior
construction practices. 32mm Euro-style cabinets are still resisted
in the US by many people, and I'm not sure if it's industry not
wanting to retool, or people liking what they grew up with, but 32mm
cabinets are superior to face-frame cabinets for most reasons.

Hanging rails are standard for cabinets in Europe and they're an
evolution of French cleats, which I'm guessing originated in France
(and I'm sure elsewhere as it's an obvious solution). They solve many
problems and have no real drawbacks.

Don't know about tiling so I will
defer to others who do know...Have seen it alot though...Same for tile over
drywall for a backsplash....

Yep, I know. Tiling is one of those things that gets slapped up by a
lot of people, including people who call themselves professional
installers.

I don't make a big fuss over it because it's so easy to open up
drywall and insert/attach blocking if it's all going to be covered by
the cabinets. *I wouldn't _argue_ if someone were to think ahead, but
I don't expect it and, well, things change.

Yea it's always easier to do things 2 or 3 times...Especially if wires or
plumbing are involved....LOL...

I can install the, what?, three or four pieces of blocking that would
be required in an average kitchen, faster than someone could cover a
wall with plywood, the cost would be a lot cheaper, I can use scrap
wood, I won't be changing the wall depth - which affects window and
door trim, eats into floor area for no reason, complicates future
work, etc. I've also found that saying, "Okay! That's it! NO more
changes." doesn't always work. If something needs to move, it needs
to move.

I don't see the harm.

R

benick wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:



"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud
behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going
BEFORE you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few
sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and
see it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE...Got a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes
to a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find
one stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows
between the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood
and the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on
the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.



I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have
been on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper
towel holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you
use a an anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once
they poke a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how
common it is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the
reader...never done that before...i'll check it out...

About your news reader, just look above this and you will see that your
reply has 1 in front of each line. The problem is that the post you
replied to also has only 1 in front of each line, so it's hard to see
where your post starts and the previous one ends. I think it's been
that way for a long time but no one mentioned it. Now if you reply to
this post, then once again it's the same problem. Where does my post
end and yours start? There will be no 's added in front of each line
in my post. I see you are using "Microsoft Windows Mail". Maybe
someone else who uses that can help you out. It's only a matter of a
setting in your mail/news reader.

Tony wrote:
benick wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

(snip)
About your news reader, just look above this and you will see that your
reply has 1 in front of each line. The problem is that the post you
replied to also has only 1 in front of each line, so it's hard to see
where your post starts and the previous one ends. I think it's been
that way for a long time but no one mentioned it. Now if you reply to
this post, then once again it's the same problem. Where does my post
end and yours start? There will be no 's added in front of each line
in my post. I see you are using "Microsoft Windows Mail". Maybe
someone else who uses that can help you out. It's only a matter of a
setting in your mail/news reader.

Not sure who wrote what at this point, but I did see Google Groups ins
some of the 'from' lines. Their web interface is notorious for not
handling attribution delimiters well, on reading or replying. When
visiting relatives, I have to use GG for Usenet, since they don't want
news set up on their PCs, and that has bit me in the butt before.

--
aem sends...

On Jan 10, 5:15*pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:



"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

....
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet in...LOL....

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.

I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have been
on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper towel
holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you use a an
anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke a
hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the reader...never
done that before...i'll check it out...

"As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...At least around here."

I'd like to hear just how common it is. I've never heard of it before,
but that doesn't mean it isn't common so don't jump on me for saying
that.

RJ brought up the rest of the things that I thought of but didn't
mention.

The 1/2" less floorspace doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but the
door and window depth could. Wouldn't you need different (non-
standard?) trim for any openings on that wall?

Earlier you said "Depends on the value of your TIME I guess" and added
that the cabinets would go up very quickly. Wouldn't some of the
"timed saved" be eaten up by the inefficiencies of having to deal with
trim work that is different from every other wall in the house?

I'm looking at the wall in my kitchen, where only 2/3 is covered by
cabinets. Let's go all the way back to when the house was being
built. Assuming the situation you mentioned where you don't know
exactly where the cabinets are going, they would have had to either
put 1/2 ply on the entire wall or extra 1/2 drywall where they were
sure the cabinets *wouldn't* go. Now, unless they're using 1/2"
drywall everywhere else in the house, that's more "one-off" material
that needs to be available, possibly resulting in more waste.

Obviously, you've dealt with this practice, but it's very foreign to
me and I just keep thinking of all the implications of doing it. Not
arguing...just making conversation.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 4:46 pm, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

A few observations:
- adding a layer of 1/2" CDX won't flatten a wall. Both drywall and
CDX will follow whatever is going on with the framing.
- locating one stud, to locate them all, works fine if you have a
house that was never remodeled and is a relatively 'new' house (less
than 100 years). Otherwise it's a total crap shoot guessing where the
studs are.

DUH...We ARE talking about a new or remodeled homes...And your bull****
observation that plywood doesn't flatten out the wall is well , just that
,
BULL****...Ever see a ceiling that wasn't strapped compared to one that
was
???

Strapping is not plywood. Strapping is most commonly shimmed to
correct for defects in the flatness of the ceiling joists. Strapping
is also a) a regional thing, and b) far less common with engineered
floor joists due to their uniformity and straightness. If the
strapping is not shimmed, then the strapping will just follow the
framing, like the CDX would, and you'll have exactly the same
situation with an out-of-plane framing job.

- a hanging rail, like IKEA uses for their cabinets, is the evolution
of the French cleat, and is far superior in pretty much all aspects.
It's faster to install cabinets, trivial to remove them if you want to
get access the wall behind them or want to remodel, and you don't have
to cover a wall with plywood when you really only need the 'extra' in
a few select places.
- tiling on top of plywood is a hack in almost anybody's book.

Not everybody has IKEA cabinets with french cleats...Never heard of them
personally so can't comment beyond that...

Your background is in drywall, right? I'm a little different - I do
it all. From the initial contact with the customer to turning over
the keys. I'm hands on at every point of the project. The only
trades I sub out on most jobs are HVAC and electrical.

I get frustrated with some of the lag in adopting superior
construction practices. 32mm Euro-style cabinets are still resisted
in the US by many people, and I'm not sure if it's industry not
wanting to retool, or people liking what they grew up with, but 32mm
cabinets are superior to face-frame cabinets for most reasons.

Hanging rails are standard for cabinets in Europe and they're an
evolution of French cleats, which I'm guessing originated in France
(and I'm sure elsewhere as it's an obvious solution). They solve many
problems and have no real drawbacks.

Don't know about tiling so I will
defer to others who do know...Have seen it alot though...Same for tile
over
drywall for a backsplash....

Yep, I know. Tiling is one of those things that gets slapped up by a
lot of people, including people who call themselves professional
installers.

I don't make a big fuss over it because it's so easy to open up
drywall and insert/attach blocking if it's all going to be covered by
the cabinets. I wouldn't _argue_ if someone were to think ahead, but
I don't expect it and, well, things change.

Yea it's always easier to do things 2 or 3 times...Especially if wires or
plumbing are involved....LOL...

I can install the, what?, three or four pieces of blocking that would
be required in an average kitchen, faster than someone could cover a
wall with plywood, the cost would be a lot cheaper, I can use scrap
wood, I won't be changing the wall depth - which affects window and
door trim, eats into floor area for no reason, complicates future
work, etc. I've also found that saying, "Okay! That's it! NO more
changes." doesn't always work. If something needs to move, it needs
to move.

I don't see the harm.



I'm just telling you what I've seen over the last 20 years around here
(New England) by many contractors and I can't really speak for them nor
defend the practice as they would....Seems to work pretty good for them
though....Strapping even not shimmed will help ALOT in the flatness of the
ceiling...Atleast to the eye..THAT I do know....Around here even engineered
joists get strapped unless in a garage , ect....Interesting your
Euro-cabinets haven't caught on here in the States....Are they THAT much
more , money wise ??? Or just ugly ??? Got a link with pics ?? I agree on
telling homeowners NO MORE CHANGES doesn't always work , atleast untill you
tell them they are out of money and going over budget.....Then you get that
scared look from them and things get finished up.....

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 5:15 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:



"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud
behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints:
---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen
or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets
of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes
to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with
seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on
the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet
in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.

I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have been
on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper towel
holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you use a an
anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a
hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the
reader...never
done that before...i'll check it out...

"As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...At least around here."

I'd like to hear just how common it is. I've never heard of it before,
but that doesn't mean it isn't common so don't jump on me for saying
that.

RJ brought up the rest of the things that I thought of but didn't
mention.

The 1/2" less floorspace doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but the
door and window depth could. Wouldn't you need different (non-
standard?) trim for any openings on that wall?

Earlier you said "Depends on the value of your TIME I guess" and added
that the cabinets would go up very quickly. Wouldn't some of the
"timed saved" be eaten up by the inefficiencies of having to deal with
trim work that is different from every other wall in the house?

I'm looking at the wall in my kitchen, where only 2/3 is covered by
cabinets. Let's go all the way back to when the house was being
built. Assuming the situation you mentioned where you don't know
exactly where the cabinets are going, they would have had to either
put 1/2 ply on the entire wall or extra 1/2 drywall where they were
sure the cabinets *wouldn't* go. Now, unless they're using 1/2"
drywall everywhere else in the house, that's more "one-off" material
that needs to be available, possibly resulting in more waste.

Obviously, you've dealt with this practice, but it's very foreign to
me and I just keep thinking of all the implications of doing it. Not
arguing...just making conversation.



You would do the whole wall in plywood with drywall over it....Windows
require an extension jamb anyway and that one would be 7/16" wider..No extra
work...The door (if you didn't ORDER the right jamb size) would need an
extension jamb..Which would take a few minutes but would still be easier
than hunting for nailers while holding cabinets up...If the door went to the
garage , as is often the case , it would already be an abnormal wall
(sheathing and 5/8 drywall on the garage side)that would need to be ordered
or an extension jamb ripped anyway...No extra work..The rest of the trim is
the same....Not a finish carpenter but that part seems cut and dry..Maybe
Ric will chime in.....As I keep saying , I'm just passing on what some of
the pro's do around here , and to me atleast , sounds easier...I just do the
drywall part...Except at home ofcourse...LOL...I made extension jambs for my
new windows and trimmed them out ...Doors too but they didn't need extension
jambs....Piece of cake.........

Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?
"benick" wrote in message
. ..
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 5:15 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:



"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud
behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints:
---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen
or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going
BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few sheets
of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and
see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty
of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes
to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would
be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows
between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with
seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood
and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on
the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind
the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet
in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up
REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.

I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have
been
on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper towel
holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you use a an
anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a
hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the
reader...never
done that before...i'll check it out...

"As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...At least around here."

I'd like to hear just how common it is. I've never heard of it before,
but that doesn't mean it isn't common so don't jump on me for saying
that.

RJ brought up the rest of the things that I thought of but didn't
mention.

The 1/2" less floorspace doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but the
door and window depth could. Wouldn't you need different (non-
standard?) trim for any openings on that wall?

Earlier you said "Depends on the value of your TIME I guess" and added
that the cabinets would go up very quickly. Wouldn't some of the
"timed saved" be eaten up by the inefficiencies of having to deal with
trim work that is different from every other wall in the house?

I'm looking at the wall in my kitchen, where only 2/3 is covered by
cabinets. Let's go all the way back to when the house was being
built. Assuming the situation you mentioned where you don't know
exactly where the cabinets are going, they would have had to either
put 1/2 ply on the entire wall or extra 1/2 drywall where they were
sure the cabinets *wouldn't* go. Now, unless they're using 1/2"
drywall everywhere else in the house, that's more "one-off" material
that needs to be available, possibly resulting in more waste.

Obviously, you've dealt with this practice, but it's very foreign to
me and I just keep thinking of all the implications of doing it. Not
arguing...just making conversation.



You would do the whole wall in plywood with drywall over it....Windows
require an extension jamb anyway and that one would be 7/16" wider..No
extra work...The door (if you didn't ORDER the right jamb size) would need
an extension jamb..Which would take a few minutes but would still be
easier than hunting for nailers while holding cabinets up...If the door
went to the garage , as is often the case , it would already be an
abnormal wall (sheathing and 5/8 drywall on the garage side)that would
need to be ordered or an extension jamb ripped anyway...No extra work..The
rest of the trim is the same....Not a finish carpenter but that part seems
cut and dry..Maybe Ric will chime in.....As I keep saying , I'm just
passing on what some of the pro's do around here , and to me atleast ,
sounds easier...I just do the drywall part...Except at home
ofcourse...LOL...I made extension jambs for my new windows and trimmed
them out ...Doors too but they didn't need extension jambs....Piece of
cake.........


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"desgnr" wrote in message
...
Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?
"benick" wrote in message
. ..
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 5:15 pm, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 2:22 pm, "benick" wrote:



"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 12:32 pm, "benick" wrote:

"desgnr" wrote in message

...

What if i have a 12" wide cabinet in the run & there is no stud
behind
it
?

--
Dell Inspiron
Pentium dual-core 2.2 GHz
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints:
---

I know it is too late for the OP but if you are redoing your kitchen
or
building a new home it makes things ALOT easier if you put 1/2 inch
plywood(NOT OSB) on the walls with cabinetts then hang sheetrock
over
that..Ofcourse if you know exactly where the cabinets are going
BEFORE
you
sheetrock you can add solid blocking but just tossing up a few
sheets of
plywood is easier.....FYI....

Hmm...that solution sounds interesting, but....

(This isn't criticism, just thoughts that came to mind.)

If I don't know where my cabinets are going, then I'd need to make
sure the plywood covered all of the wallspace where cabinets might go,
maybe even floor to ceiling.

That's how it is done and when I asked why I was told it was for the
cabinets...No matter how many times the homeowner changed their mind
it
would be covered was the reason .....I just put the rock over it and
see
it
OFTEN....

That makes installing receptacles/switches - after the fact - a little
more difficult. Let's say I come along later and want to add a
receptacle for a new appliance. I'd have to cut through both the
drywall and plywood to create the hole. Not a major hassle, but
certainly more work...

Not much more work....Besides Most people think ahead and have plenty
of
outlets above the counter the first time and messing with the tile
backsplash is where the work is...

What would be interesting is what would happen if I moved and the
*next* homeowner wants to make changes. (S)he might be searching all
day for studs/open spaces without knowing that there was a sheet of
plywood behind the drywall. That would be fine to watch! ;-)

Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE...Got
a
one ton papertowel holder you need to hang...LOL.....Any major changes
to
a
wall covered with cabinets would require removing them..Then it would
be
very apparent as to what is going on and all you need to do is find
one
stud
and you've got them all......

Of course, if I didn't do floor to ceiling (which would probably be
overkill) I'd have to add a 1/2 of drywall wherever there wasn't
plywood to keep the surface flush.

Most do the whole wall but I have seen just the strip that shows
between
the
bottom and top cabinets done with drywall and the rest plywood with
seams
hidden behind the cabinets and I've seen the whole wall just plywood
and
the
area between the cabinets tiled...No drywall...Oh , and tile backer on
the
strip in between and plywood top and bottom with seams hidden behind
the
cabinets sometimes as well...Cut thru that to put your outlet
in...LOL...

Somewhere there's a break-even between using all 1/2 ply and the
additional 1/2 drywall required.

Depends on the value of your TIME I guess....Cabinets would go up
REALLY
quick with no worry screwing and the wall would be ALOT flater and
less
wavy....

"Red Herring..Why would you need to find studs with nailer
EVERYWHERE."

You missed my point. Let's you or I put up the 1/2" ply and then
covered it with drywall.

Now, the new homeowner wants to hang that paper towel holder you
mentioned. Did you disclose in the purchase contract that there is
plywood behind the kitchen drywall? I know I didn't.

The point being that you and I know that there is nailer *everywhere*
but the next homeowner wouldn't nor would any contractor that came
along later.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I simply pointed out that it could
confusing to someone trying open up the wall.

I did not do the plywood bit in my house.....Haven't got to changing the
cabinets , if I ever do...They are custom built Birch and in pretty good
shape....It was just my observations from hundreds of jobsites I have
been
on doing the drywall...I said that in my OP....As far as the paper towel
holder...You put it where YOU want it...No stud or plywood , you use a
an
anchor...As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they
poke a
hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...Atleast around here.....I don't know what's up with the
reader...never
done that before...i'll check it out...

"As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke
a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it
is...At least around here."

I'd like to hear just how common it is. I've never heard of it before,
but that doesn't mean it isn't common so don't jump on me for saying
that.

RJ brought up the rest of the things that I thought of but didn't
mention.

The 1/2" less floorspace doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but the
door and window depth could. Wouldn't you need different (non-
standard?) trim for any openings on that wall?

Earlier you said "Depends on the value of your TIME I guess" and added
that the cabinets would go up very quickly. Wouldn't some of the
"timed saved" be eaten up by the inefficiencies of having to deal with
trim work that is different from every other wall in the house?

I'm looking at the wall in my kitchen, where only 2/3 is covered by
cabinets. Let's go all the way back to when the house was being
built. Assuming the situation you mentioned where you don't know
exactly where the cabinets are going, they would have had to either
put 1/2 ply on the entire wall or extra 1/2 drywall where they were
sure the cabinets *wouldn't* go. Now, unless they're using 1/2"
drywall everywhere else in the house, that's more "one-off" material
that needs to be available, possibly resulting in more waste.

Obviously, you've dealt with this practice, but it's very foreign to
me and I just keep thinking of all the implications of doing it. Not
arguing...just making conversation.



You would do the whole wall in plywood with drywall over it....Windows
require an extension jamb anyway and that one would be 7/16" wider..No
extra work...The door (if you didn't ORDER the right jamb size) would
need an extension jamb..Which would take a few minutes but would still be
easier than hunting for nailers while holding cabinets up...If the door
went to the garage , as is often the case , it would already be an
abnormal wall (sheathing and 5/8 drywall on the garage side)that would
need to be ordered or an extension jamb ripped anyway...No extra
work..The rest of the trim is the same....Not a finish carpenter but that
part seems cut and dry..Maybe Ric will chime in.....As I keep saying ,
I'm just passing on what some of the pro's do around here , and to me
atleast , sounds easier...I just do the drywall part...Except at home
ofcourse...LOL...I made extension jambs for my new windows and trimmed
them out ...Doors too but they didn't need extension jambs....Piece of
cake.........


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?

Depends on whether you plan on filling it with canned goods...Is it a stand
alone ???

On Jan 12, 9:13*am, "desgnr" wrote:
Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?

What type and size of screws?

R

2" screws into studs
"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 12, 9:13 am, "desgnr" wrote:
Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?

What type and size of screws?

R


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Jan 13, 8:34*am, "desgnr" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 12, 9:13 am, "desgnr" wrote:

Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30
high wall cabinet ?

What type and size of screws?

2" screws into studs

If those are drywall screws, no, I wouldn't trust them, and they're
too short anyway. The holding power of a screw is dependent on the
type of screw (for screw material strength - drywall screws are hard,
brittle and don't take shear or impact well), the size (gauge) of the
screw, and the depth of penetration into the stud.

R