Smoke detectors for the elderly
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Oct 3, 8:27*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. *It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. *My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. *I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? *I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. *I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. *BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. *The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. *FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. *Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Cheaper than $300 but still kinda expensive http://www.independentliving.com/pro...p?number=SC509 cheers Bob |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Oct 3, 10:27*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. *It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. *My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. *I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? *I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. *I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. *BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. *The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. *FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. *Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign. We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint. On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of having a raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat frequency that would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible? Joe |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all and I'm sure the builder didn't pay more then a small amount for them. They make a loud buzzing sound, sort of like the emergency broadcast sound you probably have heard on your TV and radio. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Ashton Crusher wrote:
.... The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all ... Maybe you could ferret out the manufacturer for OP???? -- |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Robert Green" wrote in message
... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! Can you not find an optical alarm, that indicates by blinking a strobe light on/off slowly (at whatever frequency is likeliest to catch the attention of deaf people)? -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
I have the same problem with my amplified phone. It's a
trimline, the volume control on the handset. The ringer is some high pitched chirp that I can't hear with my hearing aids out. I put a splitter, and an old mechanical Ma Bell phone, which I can hear sometimes. I know of no low pitch smoke alarm, though that's much needed. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
I'm all for it. Joe for congress!
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Joe" wrote in message ... Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign. We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint. On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of having a raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat frequency that would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible? Joe |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors': http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Mark wrote:
"Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors': http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'. I have slept through smoke alarm when it awoke everyone else in the house. That alarm used to sound the first time or two that the furnace came on in the fall - accumulated dust burning? No smoke detectable to us. When my kids were young teens, they used to have their radio on very softly at night, tuned to pop music station. There was a very popular song at the time that had a background sound that sounded like "maaaaa"; I normally could barely tell the radio was on in their room, but I would wake at night when that song played. My subconcious thought my children were calling me :o) |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Mark wrote:
"Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors': http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'. If you have hardwired 120VAC "tandem" smokes (the kind where if one goes off they all make noise) as are required in new houses, you can get one with relay contacts and the relay will follow the sounder (that is, the contacts will change state when any of the detectors is in alarm, not just the one with the contacts) then you can do any kind of homebrew sounder you want. Also there are versions available with 177cd strobe lights, these are usually used in ADA hotel rooms and sleeping areas of apartments for the hard of hearing. Gentex is probably the best known mfgr of these. If someone is hard of hearing and has a house with hardwired 120VAC smokes, I would highly recommend looking into replacing the smokes with the ones with ADA strobes. Off the top of my head I think the current Gentex model is 7309, but there's different versions with and without relay contacts and for wall and ceiling mount. Not cheap, but if you've already demonstrated that the existing detectors aren't notifying the occupant... nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:41:49 -0400, "
wrote: Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors': OT but my mother was a widow and took comfort that her sons lived at home, me in highschool and my brother in medical school. She was more worried about getting sick than about intruders. It was expected to stay out late, 2 or 3 for the hs graduation dance. I came home about them and found my mother asleep so I went to sleep too. She woke up and called my name, for a while iirc, and neither I nor my brother heard anything. We just kept sleeping. I think the same thing happened another night. So much for the security she had thought we gave her. (Tben I went off to college in another city and my borther went off to an internship.) http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'. I have slept through smoke alarm when it awoke everyone else in the house. That alarm used to sound the first time or two that the furnace came on in the fall - accumulated dust burning? No smoke detectable to us. When my kids were young teens, they used to have their radio on very softly at night, tuned to pop music station. There was a very popular song at the time that had a background sound that sounded like "maaaaa"; I normally could barely tell the radio was on in their room, but I would wake at night when that song played. My subconcious thought my children were calling me :o) |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Nate Nagel wrote:
Mark wrote: "Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors': http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'. If you have hardwired 120VAC "tandem" smokes (the kind where if one goes off they all make noise) as are required in new houses, you can get one with relay contacts and the relay will follow the sounder (that is, the contacts will change state when any of the detectors is in alarm, not just the one with the contacts) then you can do any kind of homebrew sounder you want. Also there are versions available with 177cd strobe lights, these are usually used in ADA hotel rooms and sleeping areas of apartments for the hard of hearing. Gentex is probably the best known mfgr of these. If someone is hard of hearing and has a house with hardwired 120VAC smokes, I would highly recommend looking into replacing the smokes with the ones with ADA strobes. Off the top of my head I think the current Gentex model is 7309, but there's different versions with and without relay contacts and for wall and ceiling mount. Not cheap, but if you've already demonstrated that the existing detectors aren't notifying the occupant... nate sorry, I was thinking of 7139 (the old part number was 7109 and it had a steady horn sound, the new one does a temporal Code-3 pattern) http://www.gentex.com/fire_photo_pd4.html http://www.gentex.com/pdf/data_sheet...Layout%201.pdf 7139CS-(W or C) is what you'd want. W or C denotes wall or ceiling mount (the light pattern of the strobe is different between the two.) They include an on-board 9V battery backup for functionality during an AC power failure. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones, and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years, but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave, but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is 440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.) It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch. especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right? I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which? sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago, every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker. Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on data sheet for specs. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. P&M, because you're being nice to an old person. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
mm wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones, and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years, but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave, but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is 440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.) It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch. especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right? I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which? sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago, every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker. Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on data sheet for specs. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. P&M, because you're being nice to an old person. there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its radioactivity it's toast. Photoelectric uses a LED and a photocell to measure obscuration. But that said most mfgrs. of smoke detectors will recommend replacement after 10 years or even less no matter what technology it uses. That's not saying that it won't work, but they're not willing to go on record saying that they will. nate (has very old smoke detectors in his house, and should know better. Do as I say, not as I do.) -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Robert Green wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. One good answer is an alarm panel with the output connected to a siren/voice speaker driver. Our system has a piercing siren sound then says *FIRE*, *FIRE*, *FIRE*---LEAVE IMMEDIATELY in a commanding male voice, then a lower frequency staccato siren sound then repeats. There is enough noise to get most anyones attention. It uses all standard off the shelf stuff. The other advantage is that the smoke alarms are powered from the panel which provides supervision and also power during an AC power outage. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Nate Nagel wrote:
mm wrote: On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones, and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years, but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave, but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is 440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.) It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch. especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right? I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which? sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago, every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker. Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on data sheet for specs. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. P&M, because you're being nice to an old person. there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its radioactivity it's toast. Am241 has a half life of 458 years so that really isn't much of an issue . Photoelectric uses a LED and a photocell to measure obscuration. But that said most mfgrs. of smoke detectors will recommend replacement after 10 years or even less no matter what technology it uses. That's not saying that it won't work, but they're not willing to go on record saying that they will. nate (has very old smoke detectors in his house, and should know better. Do as I say, not as I do.) |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Robert Green wrote:
Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. There are two smoke alarms out there that allow the user to record an alert that sounds when the alarm goes off. Usually, it's a voice alert, to awaken children to the sound of their parent's voice. But there'd be nothing stopping you from recording a lower-frequency tone to use as an alarm sound. Look on the internet for a sound your friend can hear, and that sounds alarming enough to awaken him, and record that. SignalONE Voice Safety Alarm http://www.safemart.com/Fire-Safety/...arm-012504.htm KidSmart Vocal Smoke Detector http://www.amazon.com/Kidsmart-10012.../dp/B0018SANVY |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:02:08 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote: there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its radioactivity it's toast. Could we make nuclear bombs out of americum? That way the radioactivity woudln't last that long. And it might be good publicity for our hemisphere. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
mm wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:02:08 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote: there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its radioactivity it's toast. Could we make nuclear bombs out of americum? That way the radioactivity woudln't last that long. And it might be good publicity for our hemisphere. Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in his mom's shed using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't DAGS but I'm pretty sure that he was. nate (my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids) -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:31:05 -0400, George
wrote: there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its radioactivity it's toast. Am241 has a half life of 458 years so that really isn't much of an issue . Please ignore my previous post, which you will probably see after this one. It looks like my bomb designing career is dead before it began. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Oct 3, 6:57*pm, "Robert L Bass"
wrote: "G. Morgan" wrote: Maybe someone in ASA can get you a deal on some units. In my previous home there were 110V smokes in each room they were interconnected and with 9V backup. *They had very low-pitch buzzers -- * definitely not piezos. *I don't recall the make or model and I suspect they were pretty old. *I replaced them with System Sensor detectors. You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from "LoudnLow" -- * a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims. *There's a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the high-pitch noise from conventional smokes. *It's called Telex. *Their product is also pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. *I can't speak for the quality of their product as I haven't tried one. *Here's a link: http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp Hope that helps. -- Regards, Robert L Bass I wouldn't call $159 per unit "gouging" for such a specialized product https://darro001.secure.omnis.com/products.php |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Nate Nagel" wrote in message ... mm wrote: Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in his mom's shed using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't DAGS but I'm pretty sure that he was. nate (my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids) -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"fftt" wrote in message
... On Oct 3, 8:27 am, "Robert Green" wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! stuff snipped Cheaper than $300 but still kinda expensive http://www.independentliving.com/pro...p?number=SC509 cheers Bob Thanks, Bob. I just don't understand why using a lower-frequency sounder adds so darn much to the cost! There HAS to be a cheaper solution and I'm going out to Sprawl-Mart and some other stores to see what I can find. This is one case where on-site shopping might very well beat out on-line shopping. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Joe" wrote in message
... Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign. I've come to believe that only laws that help businesses who bring buckets of cash to campaigns get passed. )-: Congress critters on both sides of the aisle are equally guilty and it will only get worse until we ban campaign contributions. Who in this world gives money to someone without expecting something in return? Yet Congress wants us to believe they are above all that. Edwards has been paying his mistress with left-over campaign funds. Ensign has been trying to bribe the husband of the woman he's having an affair with and more than a few are in jail, or heading there soon. Trust them to fix the smoke alarm problem? I wouldn't trust any of them with even a burned-out match. We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint. The key word is "supposedly" - a lot of people bought into the idea that any regulation was bad regulation along with the fairytale that you can lower taxes but still run government effectively. Now, as a result, there's very little pre-emptive enforcement. It's only when the dead children and pets start to stack up that regulators seem to notice anything's amiss. On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of having a raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat frequency that would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible? As I read up on this subject, research indicates that flashing lights are nearly useless in rousing someone from sleep. High frequency sounders are almost as bad. Kids and adults are apparently able to sleep through both. The lower square wave of 520Hz seems to be the best at waking people, as far as tones are concerned. Even better is to have a "bed shaker" connected to the alarm output. The problem I face here is resistance. My friend says he's quite happy with not being able to hear the alarm, but I suspect because he's infirm and usually in a lot of pain, that he's feeling a little suicidal. I know he won't spring for a complicated security system. He already got sold an expensive system from the people that wander door-to-door selling such things (I know, I know. I already chastized him greatly for that.!) He's not likely to buy another one (he doesn't even use this one because the vendor went under. So my best hope of getting him protection is to make it cheap and easy to install. Thanks for your input! -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
stuff snipped The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all and I'm sure the builder didn't pay more then a small amount for them. They make a loud buzzing sound, sort of like the emergency broadcast sound you probably have heard on your TV and radio. Would you mind telling me (if you can reach them) what make and model they are? Are they hardwired 110VAC or battery powered? Thanks! -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"dpb" wrote in message
... Ashton Crusher wrote: ... The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all ... Maybe you could ferret out the manufacturer for OP???? What he said! (-: -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"G. Morgan" wrote in message
stuff snipped Robert, That issue has been addressed by the NFPA. See he http://www.hearinglossweb.com/tech/alrt/smoke/code.htm Thanks. I knew the problem was bad, but apparently as many as 70 million Americans having high-frequency hearing loss, according to that site. That's a pretty big chunk of people to leave out of the design process. Maybe there was a patent issue involved. I never thought about the problem until I was standing next to someone who couldn't hear a peep of what I thought was ear-drum damaging loud, but then again, I don't design smoke detectors. I'm glad that after 20 or 30 years worth of sales, something's finally being done to address the problem as indicated by the URL you posted. I'd still like to find 3 or 4 battery powered smokes or combo smoke/CO's that don't need hardwiring and don't cost more than $50 each. Hopefully someone can tell me for sure which brands make that lower frequency squarewave 520Hz sound that's being mandated. It sounds like I need to keep my fingers crossed until the new models come out and hope that he doesn't burn himself up before then . . . naw . . . couldn't live with myself if something bad happened in the mean time. I'll keep looking. At least I have a new search term: 520Hz. I expect that to help a lot in finding what I am looking for. Thanks again for the URL. (time passes) - not as helpful as I thought. It seems only two alarm makers have such units, and they're way overpriced compared to traditional battery detectors. And I mean waaaaay over. I can get 10 normal alarms for the price of one of the specialized low frequency units. If there's anything I hate, it's gouging the sick and disabled. This is a perfect example. Smoke detectors, as the new rules make clear, should be able to wake most people up, not just one demographic. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition. As a NucE, I found the reports on that incident less than satisfying--absolutely no indications of what levels were actually found or actual numeric quantities of any of the materials to the point of determining at all what level of hazard might have been. At the time I looked for any NRC Region incident reports and found none; my general conclusion is locals got carried away w/ chance to use their gear and run some training exercises as much (or perhaps even more) as it was a real problem... The "several times background" kinds of numbers sound ominous but in reality, given what background levels typically are and that Am is an alpha-emitter so it's radius of being a problem even in open air is on the order of a few cm at most the hazard is localized at most. There was simply not enough other hard data to estimate what level of activations he could possibly have achieved but imo highly unlikely to have been much at all although theoretically possible some could have occurred. The Be actually was probably the most personally hazardous material as it is quite toxic in low quantities (not radioactive, poisonous-style toxic). As for the kid's counter showing contamination around the neighborhood, I'd say the odds were/are very high he was simply carrying it around with him unwittingly on clothing, shoes, hands, etc., and measuring it rather than a direct line-of-sight measurement from the backyard area. Or, of course, given the stuff he did w/o adequate respirators, etc., there's also a good chance he had ingested/inhaled enough that it was an internal body loading he was measuring. -- |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Robert L Bass" wrote in message
... stuff snipped You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from "LoudnLow" -- a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims. There's a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the high-pitch noise from conventional smokes. It's called Telex. Their product is also pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. I can't speak for the quality of their product as I haven't tried one. Here's a link: http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp Thanks for the link but I need to find something less pricey. I just CAN NOT believe that with all the smoke detectors out there, that there isn't anything except multi-hundred dollar units that can make a sound that hard-of-hearing people can hear. I'd like to do this for $120 max. The larger issue is the millions of older Americans on tight budgets who can hardly afford to eat. They're definitely NOT going to spend $1000's or even $100's on fancy smoke detectors, nor should they. Thanks for your input. I'm betting that if I had to go that route, I could get out some copper-clad perf board and my soldering iron and build something very similar to what you are describing for a lot less. But still, I shouldn't have to. Fortunately, the industry seems to have finally realized the problem and are taking steps to correct it. I just hope my friend doesn't turn himself into a crispy critter before then. He likes to sit in his armchair, smoking a pipe and he tends to doze off a lot. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Joe wrote:
Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign. We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint. Yeah, for every perceived or possible problem, there's got to be a government solution. If not, the government will study the need and solve some other problem. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Robert Green wrote:
"Robert L Bass" wrote in message ... stuff snipped You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from "LoudnLow" -- a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims. There's a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the high-pitch noise from conventional smokes. It's called Telex. Their product is also pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. I can't speak for the quality of their product as I haven't tried one. Here's a link: http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp Thanks for the link but I need to find something less pricey. I just CAN NOT believe that with all the smoke detectors out there, that there isn't anything except multi-hundred dollar units that can make a sound that hard-of-hearing people can hear. I'd like to do this for $120 max. The larger issue is the millions of older Americans on tight budgets who can hardly afford to eat. They're definitely NOT going to spend $1000's or even $100's on fancy smoke detectors, nor should they. Thanks for your input. I'm betting that if I had to go that route, I could get out some copper-clad perf board and my soldering iron and build something very similar to what you are describing for a lot less. But still, I shouldn't have to. Fortunately, the industry seems to have finally realized the problem and are taking steps to correct it. I just hope my friend doesn't turn himself into a crispy critter before then. He likes to sit in his armchair, smoking a pipe and he tends to doze off a lot. -- Bobby G. There's a lot of liability when it comes to fire safety. "Good" and "cheap" do sometimes occur together, but less often than not. There are plug-in Gentex models with strobes as well, I know you are focused on audible notification appliances, but visual appliances have been the traditional solution for the hard of hearing. 177cd is pretty freaking bright. However, those do run about $100 apiece retail, and there's not much getting around that. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Robert Green wrote: I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency, especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical characteristics. Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high. The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well. Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector (even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear a little better. BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid but no, he does not sleep with it in. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Bobby G. I've followed some of this thread, and got curious and went googling for "smoke alarm" and "low frequency" together. I found this site - http://darrowproducts.com/index.html . I think their alarm was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but two points on their own site that might help: one of the models is $159 with a $39 instant rebate and free shipping. (Of course, they may have changed that and not updated the page, who knows). That's the lowest price models; others are more. The site also had another interesting angle - their section on veterans says "Attention, U.S. Veterans, you may qualify to receive a Loudenlow™ Hearing Impaired smoke alarm for free via your local Veterans Affairs office". Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend! |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
Copy to Arthur because it mentions a shed. :)
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:19:59 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition. If he does this when he's 15 or so, imagine what size reactor he'll make when he's 30. I was at hamfest last week and someone had had a centrifuge for sale. It held six big testtubes. -- Christopher A. Young "Nate Nagel" wrote Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in his mom's shed using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't DAGS but I'm pretty sure that he was. nate (my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids) |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Lee B" wrote in message ... I've followed some of this thread, and got curious and went googling for "smoke alarm" and "low frequency" together. I found this site - http://darrowproducts.com/index.html . I think their alarm was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but two points on their own site that might help: one of the models is $159 with a $39 instant rebate and free shipping. (Of course, they may have changed that and not updated the page, who knows). That's the lowest price models; others are more. The site also had another interesting angle - their section on veterans says "Attention, U.S. Veterans, you may qualify to receive a Loudenlow™ Hearing Impaired smoke alarm for free via your local Veterans Affairs office". Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend! Wow! I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same concern! This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap. What is wrong with the major manufacturers, the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two to implement, you would think it would be offered. Still have to read most of the thread. Thanks all. Josh |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"zzznot" wrote in message
... Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend! Wow! I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same concern! This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap. What is wrong with the major manufacturers, the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two to implement, you would think it would be offered. Still have to read most of the thread. Thanks all. Josh To Josh and anyone else reading here, I wanted to say I found something that fits my needs exactly after a few hours of searching the web and then my local brick and mortar big box stores because I wanted to buy one today. While I nearly got arrested at TarZhey for trying to listen to the alarms before I bought them, a nearby competitor had what I needed: http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24 Mark's suggestion to Google on "talking smoke detectors" lead to the above URL, and although they had a lot of info, I couldn't tell what the sounder sounded like. (You'd think they could post a small MP3 or WAV of the sound or the voice on their website in this, the 21st century!) I decided I wanted to try it because even if sounder was too high pitched, the talking part might wake him. I also thought that it might be louder since it used AA's and not 9V batteries. To my surprise, when I brought it to his house and tested it out, the sounder was very much lower in tone than his existing smokes and he could hear it with ease. So, problem solved!!! I only bought the one, for a little over $40 with tax, but it also includes a CO monitor so mentally, it fits what *I* think a good smoke detector should cost: $20 each. I don't give it high marks for intelligibility, though. When it goes off, it's the tone, a little silence, and then a man mumbling in an urgent tone. "Warning . . . Warning . . . mo .. . ected . . . in . . . ing . . . room." The alarm tells you which room the alert is coming from and what the danger is (smoke or CO), which I think is mostly a gimmick but may prove useful. I am going to see if I can find a discount for the other two I need to purchase to cover his house completely. I think he needs one in the garage, the kitchen and the bedroom and maybe another one, but I feel incredibly relieved that he's got at least one unit he can hear. It's also got another issue I hope I can fix with a piece of black tape. It's got a feature that allows silencing or testing via any household IR remote and the unit has triggered twice accidentally as a result of a reflected IR beam. It's mainly an issue of selecting the proper location, but that may be trickier than it seems for some installations. Thanks to everyone who chipped in! Nothing like actually accomplishing the day's mission. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
On Oct 4, 9:38*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"zzznot" wrote in message ... Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend! Wow! *I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same concern! This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap. What is wrong with the major manufacturers, the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two to implement, you would think it would be offered. Still have to read most of the thread. Thanks all. Josh To Josh and anyone else reading here, I wanted to say I found something that fits my needs exactly after a few hours of searching the web and then my local brick and mortar big box stores because I wanted to buy one today. While I nearly got arrested at TarZhey for trying to listen to the alarms before I bought them, a nearby competitor had what I needed: http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24 Mark's suggestion to Google on "talking smoke detectors" lead to the above URL, and although they had a lot of info, I couldn't tell what the sounder sounded like. (You'd think they could post a small MP3 or WAV of the sound or the voice on their website in this, the 21st century!) I decided I wanted to try it because even if sounder was too high pitched, the talking part might wake him. *I also thought that it might be louder since it used AA's and not 9V batteries. To my surprise, when I brought it to his house and tested it out, the sounder was very much lower in tone than his existing smokes and he could hear it with ease. So, problem solved!!! *I only bought the one, for a little over $40 with tax, but it also includes a CO monitor so mentally, it fits what *I* think a good smoke detector should cost: *$20 each. *I don't give it high marks for intelligibility, though. *When it goes off, it's the tone, a little silence, and then a man mumbling in an urgent tone. *"Warning . . . Warning . . .. mo . . *ected . . . in . . . ing . . . room." *The alarm tells you which room the alert is coming from and what the danger is (smoke or CO), which I think is mostly a gimmick but may prove useful. I am going to see if I can find a discount for the other two I need to purchase to cover his house completely. *I think he needs one in the garage, the kitchen and the bedroom and maybe another one, but I feel incredibly relieved that he's got at least one unit he can hear. *It's also got another issue I hope I can fix with a piece of black tape. *It's got a feature that allows silencing or testing via any household IR remote and the unit has triggered twice accidentally as a result of a reflected IR beam. *It's mainly an issue of selecting the proper location, but that may be trickier than it seems for some installations. Thanks to everyone who chipped in! *Nothing like actually accomplishing the day's mission. -- Bobby G. I once helped a fellow firefighter rig up a home fire sprinkler system for his father in law who the entire family was sure would immolate himself by smoking a pipe in his favorite chair just prior to bed. Since we did all of the work ourselves the whole sprinkler system cost less then the final piece. That piece was a smoke detector that had a plunger to break the glass bulb that held the sprinkler over that chair closed. Twenty years on and his father in law had died of heart failure in his sleep so who did that detector save. It saved the alcoholic mother of the single mom with two children who had bought the small bungalow were his step father had lived. It also saved the home owner and her two children of course so I'd say that the work was worth our time. Grandma was transported to the hospital for treatment of smoke inhalation, a small burn to her hand, and a mild case of hypothermia from the forty gallons a minute of cold water that had flowed over her. -- Tom Horne |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Robert Green" wrote in message
... http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24 Excellent! Lowes' web site lists it, I'll see if the local store has it. Can this be installed battery-only, or does it need 120v install? I cannot tell from any online description I can find! Thanks. Josh |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
... "Robert Green" wrote in message ... I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!! Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors that cost $300!!!! Can you not find an optical alarm, that indicates by blinking a strobe light on/off slowly (at whatever frequency is likeliest to catch the attention of deaf people)? -- Don Phillipson I already bought him one of those for his phone, but he mostly doesn't see it. After reading through some of the sites that readers suggested, it seems he's not the only one who doesn't react to flashing lights. Some figures suggest as few as 1/4 of the people using them reliably react to light. Since posting my first question, I found an alarm that will suffice that's got a low-frequency horn that sounds a little like a truck backing up. Very audible. -- Bobby G. |
Smoke detectors for the elderly
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
... I have the same problem with my amplified phone. It's a trimline, the volume control on the handset. The ringer is some high pitched chirp that I can't hear with my hearing aids out. I put a splitter, and an old mechanical Ma Bell phone, which I can hear sometimes. I gave him a flashing phone last Christmas and it's not very effective. That's why I didn't want to go that route for a smoke detector. He has plenty of hearing left, it's just all low frequency sounds. He's given up on his hearing aid, too, because he can't stand the constant background din. I've learned to make sure he can see my lips when I am talking because I know he's doing a fair amount of lip reading. I do have some old Bell dial phones around that I could give him because I believe he doesn't have a good, solid mechanical phone that works through (frequent) blackouts. That would kill two birds with one stone. Good idea, thanks! -- Bobby G. |
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