Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

--

Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortage and a small car loan left.

No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month. This
will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash) plus
30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all charges.
If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a credit
card.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

--

Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortage and a small car loan left.

Walter R. wrote:
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month. This
will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash) plus
30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all charges.
If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a credit
card.

Hand a credit card company, that acts on behalf of any scum with a
merchant account, a stack of presigned blank checks to have their way
with my money at their leisure? I think not. No payment until I see the
statement of account, and I don't care to screw with attempting to read
it online. What if I am out of town the week the statement gets posted?
Fixing errors is easier if they DON'T have the money yet. Once it is
paid, you are mostly screwed.

I mostly could not care less about the interest rate, since I pay it off
every month. But any card that tries to re-impose an annual fee will be
going bye-bye. I've been strong considering dumping my green Amex for
that very reason, since I seldom travel any more. But after almost 30
years, I'd feel sort of naked without it. And since I only have one
other non-store card (other than the one my employer issued me.) I do
need a backup.

--
aem sends...

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

it online. What if I am out of town the week the statement gets posted?
Then you get it when you get back, just like the paper ones. Heck I
can find one that is 6-9 months old a lot easier on line than in that
rat's nest I laughingly call a file cabinet.


Fixing errors is easier if they DON'T have the money yet. Once it is
paid, you are mostly screwed.
So, you take care of it just like always BEFORE you pay. My CCs all
get the statement available at the same time, I look it over and dispute
anything there is.

--
"Politics should be limited in its scope to war,
protection of property, and the occasional
precautionary beheading of a member of the ruling class."
-P.J. O'Rourke

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

it online. What if I am out of town the week the statement gets posted?
Then you get it when you get back, just like the paper ones. Heck I
can find one that is 6-9 months old a lot easier on line than in that
rat's nest I laughingly call a file cabinet.


Fixing errors is easier if they DON'T have the money yet. Once it is
paid, you are mostly screwed.
So, you take care of it just like always BEFORE you pay. My CCs all
get the statement available at the same time, I look it over and dispute
anything there is.

--
"Politics should be limited in its scope to war,
protection of property, and the occasional
precautionary beheading of a member of the ruling class."
-P.J. O'Rourke

Walter R. wrote:
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month. This
will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash) plus
30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all charges.
If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a credit
card.

Hand a credit card company, that acts on behalf of any scum with a
merchant account, a stack of presigned blank checks to have their way
with my money at their leisure? I think not. No payment until I see the
statement of account, and I don't care to screw with attempting to read
it online. What if I am out of town the week the statement gets posted?
Fixing errors is easier if they DON'T have the money yet. Once it is
paid, you are mostly screwed.

I mostly could not care less about the interest rate, since I pay it off
every month. But any card that tries to re-impose an annual fee will be
going bye-bye. I've been strong considering dumping my green Amex for
that very reason, since I seldom travel any more. But after almost 30
years, I'd feel sort of naked without it. And since I only have one
other non-store card (other than the one my employer issued me.) I do
need a backup.

--
aem sends...

Walter R. wrote:
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month. This
will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash) plus
30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all charges.
If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a credit
card.

Hand a credit card company, that acts on behalf of any scum with a
merchant account, a stack of presigned blank checks to have their way
with my money at their leisure? I think not. No payment until I see the
statement of account, and I don't care to screw with attempting to read
it online. What if I am out of town the week the statement gets posted?
Fixing errors is easier if they DON'T have the money yet. Once it is
paid, you are mostly screwed.

I mostly could not care less about the interest rate, since I pay it off
every month. But any card that tries to re-impose an annual fee will be
going bye-bye. I've been strong considering dumping my green Amex for
that very reason, since I seldom travel any more. But after almost 30
years, I'd feel sort of naked without it. And since I only have one
other non-store card (other than the one my employer issued me.) I do
need a backup.

--
aem sends...

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month.
This will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash)
plus 30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all
charges. If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a
credit card.



I've heard the cash back argument but I do almost all my major shopping at
Costco where we already get 2% back and they don't take credit.

I always use my debit card and the bank offers some consumer protection with
ours.

I think credit cards can work well for those who use them wisely.
Unfortunately, the banks appear to be playing the odds.

Master Betty wrote:

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an
automatic deduction of the statement balance from your bank account
every month. This will give you the convenience of credit cards (no
need to carry cash) plus 30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a
1% to 3%rebate on all charges. If you cannot pay your balance every
month, you should not have a credit card.



I've heard the cash back argument but I do almost all my major shopping
at Costco where we already get 2% back and they don't take credit.

I always use my debit card and the bank offers some consumer protection
with ours.

I think credit cards can work well for those who use them wisely.
Unfortunately, the banks appear to be playing the odds.

If you are a Costco member you can get a FREE Amex card.
And the executive card only costs $50 more and is guaranteed to pay for
itself.

Lou

In article , LouB wrote:

If you are a Costco member you can get a FREE Amex card.
And the executive card only costs $50 more and is guaranteed to pay for
itself.

$50 is 2% of $2500. For those of us who don't even come remotely close
to spending $2500/yr. at Costco, the "guarantee" amounts to an
interest-free loan from consumer to corporation.

"LouB" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month.
This will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry
cash) plus 30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate
on all charges. If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should
not have a credit card.



I've heard the cash back argument but I do almost all my major shopping
at Costco where we already get 2% back and they don't take credit.

I always use my debit card and the bank offers some consumer protection
with ours.

I think credit cards can work well for those who use them wisely.
Unfortunately, the banks appear to be playing the odds.

If you are a Costco member you can get a FREE Amex card.
And the executive card only costs $50 more and is guaranteed to pay for
itself.

Lou

We've been exec members for many years now. We've been members since 1994. I
do miss the old days when they sent the money back in a check.

I was reading some comments on Costco and people were saying "It's worth it
for the food court". We get ALL of our major purchases. I bought and sold
four houses through them. Now that's a deal! It WAS almost like stealing. (I
say "was" because the market isn't what it used to be.) I think we did 2 of
my wife's cars through Costco too.

Credit Cards: I just don't like messing with the "no credit card "
philosophy in my family, but if it becomes a "Gotta do it Hi." thing, I'll
reconsider it then. Right now, I don't encourage any debits....if you know
what I mean. It's worked really well for us. I paid cash for 7 days in Rome
in November through Costco... You just have to love that place.

"LouB" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month.
This will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry
cash) plus 30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate
on all charges. If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should
not have a credit card.



I've heard the cash back argument but I do almost all my major shopping
at Costco where we already get 2% back and they don't take credit.

I always use my debit card and the bank offers some consumer protection
with ours.

I think credit cards can work well for those who use them wisely.
Unfortunately, the banks appear to be playing the odds.

If you are a Costco member you can get a FREE Amex card.

WTF is "Costco"?

No need to complain about interest rates. Just arrange for an automatic
deduction of the statement balance from your bank account every month. This
will give you the convenience of credit cards (no need to carry cash) plus
30 days grace in paying bills, plus getting a 1% to 3%rebate on all charges.
If you cannot pay your balance every month, you should not have a credit
card.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

--

Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortage and a small car loan left.

Someone wrote .................................
Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortgage and a small car loan left.

Don't blame you; one has to be very careful with any loan arrangement
including, or particularly, credit cards! And if CC are a nuisance cut
them up and do everything possible on cash basis.

But there can be a role for 'careful/thioughtful' consumer use of a
CC.

The best way to use a credit card IMHO is to set up automatic payment
of the 'total' amount due monthly.
The CC company takes the balance owing from bank account on the same
billing date each month.

The result: a) No interest charges (Haven't paid any for CC interest
since we got the cards, about 7 years). b) Provides a 21 to 25 day
interval before payment is due, thus one is effectively using somebody
else's money for that period of time. It ain't much but anything that
defers payment without additional cost and is part of the system can
be done on principle!

For example I bought gasoline tonight, using CC. Payment for that will
not be due until the mid October statement.

But be careful; the moment the moment the CC balance is not not paid
off, annual interest charges of anywhere from 9%, 19% or even 29% can
occur. So even for one month on an amount as low as $500 interest for
one month can be a significant (around $8 on say $500 owing at 19%
etc.) for example. So frequent checks to make sure arrangements are
working are in order. Although one usually has an overall mental
recollection of where, financially, things are.

And watch the fine print like a hawk. And NEVER take cash off a credit
card it incurs interest IMMEDIATELY!

Municipal taxes for can be paid off over the year, without extra cost
and also allow use of CC it is possible at end of March (the deadline)
to set up an authorization for one ninth of the amount due to be taken
automatically, each month, from bank account. There is no extra charge
for this and there are no CC interest charges.

Another 'use' we have found for a CC is to buy safely via the
internet. We have one presently unused line of credit (it presently
owes us $2.21!) linked to credit card at a relatively low rate of
interest, which is held in reserve for a potential emergency
expenditure.

Also find that a CC in good standing ensures smooth purchasing.

Do not like that CC company has 'upped' credit limit on our card even
though not requested (or needed) and also even though our expenditures
had never ever approached the limit. This usually under the guise of
"You are such a creditworthy customer and we value your business
etc.!!!!) Appeared to be a very crude attempt to get one to borrow
more? And 'draw' one into debt and the payment of 'yuk' interest
charges!

Long ago, financially naive and innocent I bought my first car. All I
knew was that it would cost $61 per month. I had no idea how much
interest I was paying etc. etc. It wasn't long before I had figured
out that anything bought 'on credit' cost MORE!. And the higher the
interest ate and other charges the more it cost, over the ticket
price.

But how to compare different course of action?

Then I went on an engineering economy course, with Bell Telephone, and
the concept of time-money dawned on me and has been used here ever
since on all decisions.

Sorry to rant on; but put forward this cheap and dirty interest
calculator.

Suppose you borrow $10,000 and agree to pay it off monthly over 5
years at say 10% (ten percent just make it easy to figure).
At the start you owe 10,000 and at the end of 5 years you owe zero.
OK?
So on average you owe half of it or 5,000 (I said this was cheap and
dirty!).

So 'on average' you owe 5,000 at an interest rate of 10%, that's $500
per year for each of the five years.
Five years at $500 = $2500.
Adding the 2,500 to the 10,000; wow that's a quarter more than I
borrowed! Is $12,500.

Divide the $12,500 by the number of months 12,500/60 = $208 per
month.
So roughly your payment will be around $210 - $215 per month for five
years.

Have just put the above amounts into a 'proper' amortization
calculator programme' and the actual monthly amount comes out at $212
per month! So cheap and dirty works quite well for smaller amounts and
shorter periods; but don't try using it for a 30 year $100,000
mortgage!

BTW watch out for financial tricks such as no payments for three
months, meanwhile the seller is totting up interest on the whole
amount owing for another quarter of a year! In the above example that
could be another $125 or so. Another 1.25%!

On Sep 25, 3:40�am, stan wrote:
Someone wrote .................................

Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortgage and a small car loan left.

Don't blame you; one has to be very careful with any loan arrangement
including, or particularly, credit cards! And if CC are a nuisance cut
them up and do everything possible on cash basis.

But there can be a role for 'careful/thioughtful' consumer use of a
CC.

The best way to use a credit card IMHO is to set up automatic payment
of the 'total' amount due monthly.
The CC company takes the balance owing from bank account on the same
billing date each month.

The result: a) No interest charges (Haven't paid any for CC interest
since we got the cards, about 7 years). b) Provides a 21 to 25 day
interval before payment is due, thus one is effectively using somebody
else's money for that period of time. It ain't much but anything that
defers payment without additional cost and is part of the system can
be done on principle!

For example I bought gasoline tonight, using CC. Payment for that will
not be due until the mid October statement.

But be careful; the moment the moment the CC balance is not �not paid
off, annual interest charges of anywhere from 9%, 19% or even 29% can
occur. So even for one month on an amount as low as $500 interest for
one month can be a significant (around $8 on say $500 owing at 19%
etc.) for example. So frequent checks to make sure arrangements are
working are in order. Although one usually has an overall mental
recollection of where, financially, things are.

And watch the fine print like a hawk. And NEVER take cash off a credit
card it incurs interest IMMEDIATELY!

Municipal taxes for can be paid off over the year, without extra cost
and also allow use of CC it is possible at end of March (the deadline)
to set up an authorization for one ninth of the amount due to be taken
automatically, each month, from bank account. There is no extra charge
for this and there are no CC interest charges.

Another 'use' we have found for a CC is to buy safely via the
internet. We have one presently unused line of credit (it presently
owes us $2.21!) �linked to credit card at a relatively low rate of
interest, which is held in reserve for a potential emergency
expenditure.

Also find that a CC in good standing ensures smooth purchasing.

Do not like that CC company has 'upped' credit limit on our card even
though not requested (or needed) and also even though our expenditures
had never ever approached the limit. This usually under the guise of
"You are such a creditworthy customer and we value your business
etc.!!!!) Appeared to be a very crude attempt to get one to borrow
more? And 'draw' one into debt and the payment of 'yuk' interest
charges!

Long ago, financially naive and innocent I bought my first car. All I
knew was that it would cost $61 per month. I had no idea how much
interest I was paying etc. etc. It wasn't long before I had figured
out that anything bought 'on credit' cost MORE!. And the higher the
interest ate and other charges the more it cost, over the ticket
price.

But how to compare different course of action?

Then I went on an engineering economy course, with Bell Telephone, and
the concept of time-money dawned on me and has been used here ever
since on all decisions.

Sorry �to rant on; but put forward this cheap and dirty interest
calculator.

Suppose you borrow $10,000 and agree to pay it off monthly over 5
years at say 10% (ten percent just make it easy to figure).
At the start you owe 10,000 and at the end of 5 years you owe zero.
OK?
So on average you owe half of it or 5,000 (I said this was cheap and
dirty!).

So 'on average' you owe 5,000 at an interest rate of 10%, that's $500
per year for each of the five years.
Five years at $500 = $2500.
Adding the 2,500 to the 10,000; wow that's a quarter more than I
borrowed! Is $12,500.

Divide the $12,500 by the number of months 12,500/60 = $208 per
month.
So roughly your payment will be around $210 - $215 per month for five
years.

Have just put the above amounts into a 'proper' amortization
calculator programme' and the actual monthly amount comes out at $212
per month! So cheap and dirty works quite well for smaller amounts and
shorter periods; but don't try using it for a 30 year $100,000
mortgage!

BTW watch out for financial tricks such as no payments for three
months, meanwhile the seller is totting up interest on the whole
amount owing for another quarter of a year! In the above example that
could be another $125 or so. Another 1.25%!

You are correct in what you are saying. Like other posters have said,
the trick is to pay off the CC every month so that you don't pay
interest. In reality, a CC can be an asset if used correctly and claim
the rewards by paying it off.

Many years ago I looked closely at the amorization schedule for my
home loan. If I kept the house and only made the monthly payment, I
was paying almost $300,000.00 for a $100,000.00 home. I thought to
myself "what a waste of money". Altho I couldn't pay it off, I could
pay a little more onthe principle and pay it off earlier. I did that
and after about 5 years, I almost had it paid off. I sold the house
and took the equity and built a smaller house with more land and it
was totally paid for.

Young people HAVE to pay interest on a loan to get a home. As bad as
it sucks, it is the only way for some to acquire any savings (equity).
It beats renting for sure. But, any interest you don't pay is like
having that money go into YOUR pocket.

If people would take a close look at the amorization schedule and
realize they are wasting many dollars on interest that is coming out
of their pockets, I'd think most would come to their senses. At least
the smart ones.

Hank ~~~thinks interest is wasted money.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:24:53 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote Re OT - Bank of America:

You are correct in what you are saying. Like other posters have said,
the trick is to pay off the CC every month so that you don't pay
interest. In reality, a CC can be an asset if used correctly and claim
the rewards by paying it off.

Consider also that some CCs allow you to create limited one-time-use
CC numbers with a limited $-amount to use when shopping on-line:
http://www.bankofamerica.com/creditc...late=faq#ccs18

A feature I use often.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

Ideally, credit cards are paid in full every month. And the
loan is paid off early. That takes a lot of discipline, and
self control. Something the American public is slow to
learn.

Interest is what keeps the credit card companies paid. That,
and also fees and penalties.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in message
...

You are correct in what you are saying. Like other posters
have said,
the trick is to pay off the CC every month so that you don't
pay
interest. In reality, a CC can be an asset if used correctly
and claim
the rewards by paying it off.

Many years ago I looked closely at the amorization schedule
for my
home loan. If I kept the house and only made the monthly
payment, I
was paying almost $300,000.00 for a $100,000.00 home. I
thought to
myself "what a waste of money". Altho I couldn't pay it off,
I could
pay a little more onthe principle and pay it off earlier. I
did that
and after about 5 years, I almost had it paid off. I sold
the house
and took the equity and built a smaller house with more land
and it
was totally paid for.

Young people HAVE to pay interest on a loan to get a home.
As bad as
it sucks, it is the only way for some to acquire any savings
(equity).
It beats renting for sure. But, any interest you don't pay
is like
having that money go into YOUR pocket.

If people would take a close look at the amorization
schedule and
realize they are wasting many dollars on interest that is
coming out
of their pockets, I'd think most would come to their senses.
At least
the smart ones.

Hank ~~~thinks interest is wasted money.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Ideally, credit cards are paid in full every month. And the
loan is paid off early. That takes a lot of discipline, and
self control. Something the American public is slow to
learn.

Interest is what keeps the credit card companies paid. That,
and also fees and penalties.


I keep waiting for one my lesser used back up cards to tell me they
are going to charge fees. So far, they haven't.

--
"Politics should be limited in its scope to war,
protection of property, and the occasional
precautionary beheading of a member of the ruling class."
-P.J. O'Rourke

On Sep 25, 7:24*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Sep 25, 3:40 am, stan wrote:





Someone wrote .................................

Credit Card?

Back in the 90s I watched a show on PBS like this one:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortgage and a small car loan left.

Don't blame you; one has to be very careful with any loan arrangement
including, or particularly, credit cards! And if CC are a nuisance cut
them up and do everything possible on cash basis.

But there can be a role for 'careful/thioughtful' consumer use of a
CC.

The best way to use a credit card IMHO is to set up automatic payment
of the 'total' amount due monthly.
The CC company takes the balance owing from bank account on the same
billing date each month.

The result: a) No interest charges (Haven't paid any for CC interest
since we got the cards, about 7 years). b) Provides a 21 to 25 day
interval before payment is due, thus one is effectively using somebody
else's money for that period of time. It ain't much but anything that
defers payment without additional cost and is part of the system can
be done on principle!

For example I bought gasoline tonight, using CC. Payment for that will
not be due until the mid October statement.

But be careful; the moment the moment the CC balance is not not paid
off, annual interest charges of anywhere from 9%, 19% or even 29% can
occur. So even for one month on an amount as low as $500 interest for
one month can be a significant (around $8 on say $500 owing at 19%
etc.) for example. So frequent checks to make sure arrangements are
working are in order. Although one usually has an overall mental
recollection of where, financially, things are.

And watch the fine print like a hawk. And NEVER take cash off a credit
card it incurs interest IMMEDIATELY!

Municipal taxes for can be paid off over the year, without extra cost
and also allow use of CC it is possible at end of March (the deadline)
to set up an authorization for one ninth of the amount due to be taken
automatically, each month, from bank account. There is no extra charge
for this and there are no CC interest charges.

Another 'use' we have found for a CC is to buy safely via the
internet. We have one presently unused line of credit (it presently
owes us $2.21!) linked to credit card at a relatively low rate of
interest, which is held in reserve for a potential emergency
expenditure.

Also find that a CC in good standing ensures smooth purchasing.

Do not like that CC company has 'upped' credit limit on our card even
though not requested (or needed) and also even though our expenditures
had never ever approached the limit. This usually under the guise of
"You are such a creditworthy customer and we value your business
etc.!!!!) Appeared to be a very crude attempt to get one to borrow
more? And 'draw' one into debt and the payment of 'yuk' interest
charges!

Long ago, financially naive and innocent I bought my first car. All I
knew was that it would cost $61 per month. I had no idea how much
interest I was paying etc. etc. It wasn't long before I had figured
out that anything bought 'on credit' cost MORE!. And the higher the
interest ate and other charges the more it cost, over the ticket
price.

But how to compare different course of action?

Then I went on an engineering economy course, with Bell Telephone, and
the concept of time-money dawned on me and has been used here ever
since on all decisions.

Sorry to rant on; but put forward this cheap and dirty interest
calculator.

Suppose you borrow $10,000 and agree to pay it off monthly over 5
years at say 10% (ten percent just make it easy to figure).
At the start you owe 10,000 and at the end of 5 years you owe zero.
OK?
So on average you owe half of it or 5,000 (I said this was cheap and
dirty!).

So 'on average' you owe 5,000 at an interest rate of 10%, that's $500
per year for each of the five years.
Five years at $500 = $2500.
Adding the 2,500 to the 10,000; wow that's a quarter more than I
borrowed! Is $12,500.

Divide the $12,500 by the number of months 12,500/60 = $208 per
month.
So roughly your payment will be around $210 - $215 per month for five
years.

Have just put the above amounts into a 'proper' amortization
calculator programme' and the actual monthly amount comes out at $212
per month! So cheap and dirty works quite well for smaller amounts and
shorter periods; but don't try using it for a 30 year $100,000
mortgage!

BTW watch out for financial tricks such as no payments for three
months, meanwhile the seller is totting up interest on the whole
amount owing for another quarter of a year! In the above example that
could be another $125 or so. Another 1.25%!

You are correct in what you are saying. Like other posters have said,
the trick is to pay off the CC every month so that you don't pay
interest. In reality, a CC can be an asset if used correctly and claim
the rewards by paying it off.

Many years ago I looked closely at the amorization schedule for my
home loan. If I kept the house and only made the monthly payment, I
was paying almost $300,000.00 for a $100,000.00 home. I thought to
myself "what a waste of money". Altho I couldn't pay it off, I could
pay a little more onthe principle and pay it off earlier. I did that
and after about 5 years, I almost had it paid off. I sold the house
and took the equity and built a smaller house with more land and it
was totally paid for.

Young people HAVE to pay interest on a loan to get a home. As bad as
it sucks, it is the only way for some to acquire any savings (equity).
It beats renting for sure. But, any interest you don't pay is like
having that money go into YOUR pocket.

If people would take a close look at the amorization schedule and
realize they are wasting many dollars on interest that is coming out
of their pockets, I'd think most would come to their senses. At least
the smart ones.

Hank ~~~thinks interest is wasted money.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hank I totally agree. A kindred spirit I think.

And it's exactly what my son is doing; paying of his home mortgage as
quick as possible, even though the interest rate is low, hoping the
equity in will increase (depends on the economy and the location).

Now a widower, and for the record I have three children ranging from
47+ to 30.

One seems to have fallen near the parent tree and is well aware of
'cost of money' is thrifty and doesn't mind using and fixing and
secondhand as long as it does the job.

Another can't seem to control finances at all; despite help!

A third works hard, earns well has no children, is smart about
'bargains' etc and 'manages' to live within budget.

Same parents, same procreation process, no hanky panky in the family
so they all came from the same tree!

Must be different genes?

Here in Canada we have what seem to be be better regulation of
financial institutions, and have not had to bail out any of the banks.
So it's not instutional problems but individuals who need to be
smarter.

Improvements are needed in in regulating what are loosely called
'Financial or investment advisers', they are required, if above
board , to be registered but there are thirteen different provinces
and territories each with it's regulations. But there still are the
Bernie Madeoffs here.

My adviser for example has to register in at least three areas (at a
cost in each) in order to operate legally and if one of his clients
moves to another province etc. he has either to register himself in
that territory or hand off the client to another adviser.

"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have our
mortage and a small car loan left.
You are missing an easy opportunity to have a credit card company give you
hundreds of dollars of free money each year.

I have an AmEx Blue Cash card, which gives me a 5% rebate on groceries, gas,
and prescription drugs, and 1.25% on everything else. I pay in full each
month, get a free grace period, don't write any checks, don't have to carry
around cash, and once per year I get a credit on my account of many many
hundreds of dollars. I have a VISA that gives a 1% rebate when a merchant
doesn't accept AmEx, and I get that rebate credit the next month.

I always pay in full each month.

The credit card company is paying me to use their card.

Of course others use cards in this manner that give other types of rewards
(ie airline miles). My father's card is through the same bank as his
mortgage, so his card rebate goes right toward extra principal payment on
his mortgage.

I can't imagine why anyone who is creditworthy would not take advantage of
this opportunity rather than do what you are doing.

Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have
our mortage and a small car loan left.
You are missing an easy opportunity to have a credit card company give
you hundreds of dollars of free money each year.

I have an AmEx Blue Cash card, which gives me a 5% rebate on groceries,
gas, and prescription drugs, and 1.25% on everything else. I pay in
full each month, get a free grace period, don't write any checks, don't
have to carry around cash, and once per year I get a credit on my
account of many many hundreds of dollars. I have a VISA that gives a
1% rebate when a merchant doesn't accept AmEx, and I get that rebate
credit the next month.

I always pay in full each month.

The credit card company is paying me to use their card.

Of course others use cards in this manner that give other types of
rewards (ie airline miles). My father's card is through the same bank
as his mortgage, so his card rebate goes right toward extra principal
payment on his mortgage.

I can't imagine why anyone who is creditworthy would not take advantage
of this opportunity rather than do what you are doing.

Good advice.

On Sep 25, 1:48*pm, LouB wrote:
Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have
our mortage and a small car loan left.
You are missing an easy opportunity to have a credit card company give
you hundreds of dollars of free money each year.

I have an AmEx Blue Cash card, which gives me a 5% rebate on groceries,
gas, and prescription drugs, and 1.25% on everything else. *I pay in
full each month, get a free grace period, don't write any checks, don't
have to carry around cash, and once per year I get a credit on my
account of many many hundreds of dollars. *I have a VISA *that gives a
1% rebate when a merchant doesn't accept AmEx, and I get that rebate
credit the next month.

I always pay in full each month.

The credit card company is paying me to use their card.

Of course others use cards in this manner that give other types of
rewards (ie airline miles). *My father's card is through the same bank
as his mortgage, so his card rebate goes right toward extra principal
payment on his mortgage.

I can't imagine why anyone who is creditworthy would not take advantage
of this opportunity rather than do what you are doing.

Good advice.- Hide quoted text -


BTW Home loans/mortgages.

$100,000. at 6% for various time periods. Monthly payments.

20 years $716 mo total repay 172,000; Interest = 72,000 or 1.72 times
original cost
25 years $644 mo repay 193,000; interest = 93,000 1.93 times cost
30 years $600 mo repay 216,000; interest = 116,000 2.16 times cost
40 years $550 mo repay 264,000; interest = 164,000 2.64 times cost

Just a thought.

So we built our own some 40 years ago and the most ever owed was
$12,000, which we disposed of asap. despite a then low salary. So no
mortgage!

You can scale this up or down. For example $50,000 as above would be
exactly half of the 100,000 numbers .
Also for slight difference in interest rate, say 5% instead of 6, you
can ratio it a bit and not be too far out, for mental calculation.
e.g. 5/6 x 600 per month = $500. i.e. somewhere between $500 and $600
per month.
Then then calculate it properly using an on-line progarmme such as
http://www.bretwhissel.net/amortization/amortize.html

Good luck; and aside from credit cards, after all it's OUR money we
are paying for housing and home repairs.

"stan" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 1:48 pm, LouB wrote:
Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

I cut up all my credit cards and haven't used one since. We only have
our mortage and a small car loan left.
You are missing an easy opportunity to have a credit card company give
you hundreds of dollars of free money each year.

I have an AmEx Blue Cash card, which gives me a 5% rebate on groceries,
gas, and prescription drugs, and 1.25% on everything else. I pay in
full each month, get a free grace period, don't write any checks, don't
have to carry around cash, and once per year I get a credit on my
account of many many hundreds of dollars. I have a VISA that gives a
1% rebate when a merchant doesn't accept AmEx, and I get that rebate
credit the next month.

I always pay in full each month.

The credit card company is paying me to use their card.

Of course others use cards in this manner that give other types of
rewards (ie airline miles). My father's card is through the same bank
as his mortgage, so his card rebate goes right toward extra principal
payment on his mortgage.

I can't imagine why anyone who is creditworthy would not take advantage
of this opportunity rather than do what you are doing.

Good advice.- Hide quoted text -


BTW Home loans/mortgages.

$100,000. at 6% for various time periods. Monthly payments.

20 years $716 mo total repay 172,000; Interest = 72,000 or 1.72 times
original cost
25 years $644 mo repay 193,000; interest = 93,000 1.93 times cost
30 years $600 mo repay 216,000; interest = 116,000 2.16 times cost
40 years $550 mo repay 264,000; interest = 164,000 2.64 times cost

Just a thought.

So we built our own some 40 years ago and the most ever owed was
$12,000, which we disposed of asap. despite a then low salary. So no
mortgage!

You can scale this up or down. For example $50,000 as above would be
exactly half of the 100,000 numbers .
Also for slight difference in interest rate, say 5% instead of 6, you
can ratio it a bit and not be too far out, for mental calculation.
e.g. 5/6 x 600 per month = $500. i.e. somewhere between $500 and $600
per month.
Then then calculate it properly using an on-line progarmme such as
http://www.bretwhissel.net/amortization/amortize.html

Good luck; and aside from credit cards, after all it's OUR money we
are paying for housing and home repairs.

__________________________________

I don't know about Canada, but in the USA you deduct the mortgage interest
paid each year from your income when determining income tax.

I live in the state of Maryland, and pay 25% USA income tax, and 8%
Maryland/local income tax, so about 33% of the mortgage interest (25%+8%) is
how much my income taxes are reduced. For example, if someone in Maryland
pays $12,000 in the first year of their mortgage in interest and are in the
25% USA bracket, their US tax bill is reduced by $3,000 (25%) and their
Maryland tax bill is reduced by $960 (8%). So where you are adding the
$12,000 interest in your calculation, you need to subtract about 1/3 of that
due to reduced taxes. So you need to multiply all of your above ratios by
2/3.

If you invest the saved taxes in a long-term investment that grows on
average 10% per year, and the mortgage interest is 5%, you are better off
investing that money rather than paying down the mortgage. Your ratios also
aren't yet factoring this in.

But you know all this.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

From the time you signed the original application and accepted any
amendments thereto it stated terms were changeable per the issuer's
notifying of same...

--

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?


Dump them. There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

On Sep 24, 2:11*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

Dump them. *There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. *You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

They are? Far as I can tell banks are pretty much all the same, esp.
when it comes to credit cards. I've gotten similar letters from all
issuers of my credit cards. My credit is excellent, the only negative
that I can think of is that I bought a house a few years back so I
have more debt than I used to (but I also pay off my cards every month
and have money in savings and pay all my bills on time.)

Jacking up the interest rates like this just encourages me to not use
credit, at least anything other than just as a convenience that is
essentially treated like a checking account and is paid off every
month. I'll be damned if I'll pay more than 10% interest on anything.

nate

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Sep 24, 2:11 pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

Dump them. There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

They are? Far as I can tell banks are pretty much all the same, esp.
when it comes to credit cards. I've gotten similar letters from all
issuers of my credit cards. My credit is excellent, the only negative
that I can think of is that I bought a house a few years back so I
have more debt than I used to (but I also pay off my cards every month
and have money in savings and pay all my bills on time.)

Jacking up the interest rates like this just encourages me to not use
credit, at least anything other than just as a convenience that is
essentially treated like a checking account and is paid off every
month. I'll be damned if I'll pay more than 10% interest on anything.

nate

++++++

10%??? ---the prime is at 3.25%. Double that and you get 6.5%. Anything over
that is bull****. For that matter any interest is bs.

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Sep 24, 2:11 pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

Dump them. There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

They are? Far as I can tell banks are pretty much all the same, esp.
when it comes to credit cards. I've gotten similar letters from all
issuers of my credit cards. My credit is excellent, the only negative
that I can think of is that I bought a house a few years back so I
have more debt than I used to (but I also pay off my cards every month
and have money in savings and pay all my bills on time.)

Jacking up the interest rates like this just encourages me to not use
credit, at least anything other than just as a convenience that is
essentially treated like a checking account and is paid off every
month. I'll be damned if I'll pay more than 10% interest on anything.

nate

++++++

10%??? ---the prime is at 3.25%. Double that and you get 6.5%. Anything over
that is bull****. For that matter any interest is bs.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:34:33 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote:

On Sep 24, 2:11*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

Dump them. *There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. *You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

They are? Far as I can tell banks are pretty much all the same, esp.
when it comes to credit cards. I've gotten similar letters from all
issuers of my credit cards. My credit is excellent, the only negative
that I can think of is that I bought a house a few years back so I
have more debt than I used to (but I also pay off my cards every month
and have money in savings and pay all my bills on time.)

Jacking up the interest rates like this just encourages me to not use
credit, at least anything other than just as a convenience that is
essentially treated like a checking account and is paid off every
month. I'll be damned if I'll pay more than 10% interest on anything.

nate


Charge only the amount you can pay IN FULL each month, and no more. If
you stop using credit your credit score decreases. If you stop using
the card cancel the account. You are in control, not the bank.
DiscoverCard has a cash-back program and you don't need a fancy bank
for that one.

On Sep 25, 12:45*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:34:33 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote:





On Sep 24, 2:11*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?

Dump them. *There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. *You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

They are? *Far as I can tell banks are pretty much all the same, esp.
when it comes to credit cards. *I've gotten similar letters from all
issuers of my credit cards. *My credit is excellent, the only negative
that I can think of is that I bought a house a few years back so I
have more debt than I used to (but I also pay off my cards every month
and have money in savings and pay all my bills on time.)

Jacking up the interest rates like this just encourages me to not use
credit, at least anything other than just as a convenience that is
essentially treated like a checking account and is paid off every
month. *I'll be damned if I'll pay more than 10% interest on anything.

nate

Charge only the amount you can pay IN FULL each month, and no more. If
you stop using credit your credit score decreases. *If you stop using
the card cancel the account. * You are in control, not the bank.
DiscoverCard has a cash-back program and you don't need a fancy bank
for that one.

That's what I'm doing. I still got rate increases on three different
credit cards.

Only real impact on me is now instead of thinking that if there's
something that I really want that I might be willing to carry a
balance for a month or two, now it's simply not an option. I'm sure
others feel like I do as well. This can only have a depressing effect
on the economy. Something I would be willing to pay 8% interest on, I
might not be willing to pay 18%.

nate

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote Re OT - Bank of America:

Only real impact on me is now instead of thinking that if there's
something that I really want that I might be willing to carry a
balance for a month or two, now it's simply not an option. I'm sure
others feel like I do as well.

Some others might feel as you do, but not many.

This is America. Most Americans are into conspicuous consumption and
want to leave to bill to the grandchildren. It's supposed to be one of
our countless rights.

The Chinese will educate us.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:31:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Aparently, B of A is changing personality. Just got a
letter, that my promotional rate was going up as high
possibly as 27%. And that I needed to call the number, and
tell them to reject the rate increase.

I did so. But, since when is it my reponsibility to tell
them to keep their word?


Dump them. There are better banks with better rates, unless you got
to have the marble counters and high ceilings. You got lucky on this
one, the choices are great unlike medical insurance companies.

i got an identical letter from chase in my last bill.

Makes me wonder what's going on.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"charlie" wrote in message
...


i got an identical letter from chase in my last bill.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Makes me wonder what's going on.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"charlie" wrote in message
...


i got an identical letter from chase in my last bill.


new laws were passed that kick in soon, so they have to make all these
changes before the effective date so that the changes would be grandfathered
in, or some changes are necessary because of these new laws (increased
minimum payments, etc).

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Makes me wonder what's going on.

Where have you been????

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors voted 5-0 on December 18 to
approve the new rules, the third of three agencies to act. ...

The rules were released jointly by the Fed, the Office of Thrift
Supervision (OTS), which regulates savings associations and thrifts,
and the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA), which oversees
credit union operations. The OTS and NCUA approved the measures
earlier on December 18.

"The new regulations will fundamentally alter the relationship that
cardholders have with their banks and the way that banks communicate
with cardholders," Edward Yingling, president of the American Bankers
Association, said ...

... Regulators gave banks and credit card issuers until July 1, 2010,
to implement changes in their billing, marketing and advertising systems.

According to the Fed, the 2010 date was selected to give issuers time
to "extensively redesign systems and modify procedures to comply with
the changes required under both regulations."

....
Among the predicted consequences of the new rules:

* No more zero percent balance transfer offers.
* A return to routine annual fees on credit card accounts.
* Significant reduction in subprime credit cards, forcing those with
bad credit to ... options such as payday loans.
* Higher interest rates for all credit card users.

In its comments on the proposed changes filed with the Fed on Aug. 4,
Chase Card Services estimated that major issuers would have to
increase interest rates by more than 1 percent to offset the
additional lending risks. A study submitted to the Fed indicated
accounts for as many as 45 million cardholders could closed as a
result of the risk-based pricing rule restrictions.

Bernanke had promised to finalize the credit card rules by year's end.

It's getting close to year end and the bewitching hour approaches...

--

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Makes me wonder what's going on.

Your chickens are coming home to roost, that's what's going on. In a world
where the banks spend umpteen millions lobbying Congress for laws to their
liking, they get to do just about whatever they want. Now that they're
finally being forced to back down a bit (since even the whores in Congress
were embarrassed by what the banks had been getting away with) they're
changing fees and rates and so on while they still can. Why it's almost as
if business being under only weak regulation sometimes isn't the great idea
some folks think it is.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Makes me wonder what's going on.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"charlie" wrote in message
...


i got an identical letter from chase in my last bill.


new laws were passed that kick in soon, so they have to make all these
changes before the effective date so that the changes would be grandfathered
in, or some changes are necessary because of these new laws (increased
minimum payments, etc).

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Makes me wonder what's going on.

Where have you been????

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors voted 5-0 on December 18 to
approve the new rules, the third of three agencies to act. ...

The rules were released jointly by the Fed, the Office of Thrift
Supervision (OTS), which regulates savings associations and thrifts,
and the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA), which oversees
credit union operations. The OTS and NCUA approved the measures
earlier on December 18.

"The new regulations will fundamentally alter the relationship that
cardholders have with their banks and the way that banks communicate
with cardholders," Edward Yingling, president of the American Bankers
Association, said ...

... Regulators gave banks and credit card issuers until July 1, 2010,
to implement changes in their billing, marketing and advertising systems.

According to the Fed, the 2010 date was selected to give issuers time
to "extensively redesign systems and modify procedures to comply with
the changes required under both regulations."

....
Among the predicted consequences of the new rules:

* No more zero percent balance transfer offers.
* A return to routine annual fees on credit card accounts.
* Significant reduction in subprime credit cards, forcing those with
bad credit to ... options such as payday loans.
* Higher interest rates for all credit card users.

In its comments on the proposed changes filed with the Fed on Aug. 4,
Chase Card Services estimated that major issuers would have to
increase interest rates by more than 1 percent to offset the
additional lending risks. A study submitted to the Fed indicated
accounts for as many as 45 million cardholders could closed as a
result of the risk-based pricing rule restrictions.

Bernanke had promised to finalize the credit card rules by year's end.

It's getting close to year end and the bewitching hour approaches...

--

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Makes me wonder what's going on.

Your chickens are coming home to roost, that's what's going on. In a world
where the banks spend umpteen millions lobbying Congress for laws to their
liking, they get to do just about whatever they want. Now that they're
finally being forced to back down a bit (since even the whores in Congress
were embarrassed by what the banks had been getting away with) they're
changing fees and rates and so on while they still can. Why it's almost as
if business being under only weak regulation sometimes isn't the great idea
some folks think it is.