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How I think the economy will go and why
Douglas Johnson wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote: Douglas Johnson wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply with the new laws. Do you have a citation for this? Thanks, Doug We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a 1,400 page bill) Actually, it's pretty easy. Right in the table of contents: "SEC. 304. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES." It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as onerous as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes but was modified to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the gamut of things down to water heater insulation. The section does not address water heater insulation or any other specific practice at all. It requires the establishment of national energy building codes that meet certain energy reduction targets by certain dates. It doesn't say how. I looked at the text of both the first-introduced bill and the one passed and sent to the Senate. Section 304 does not seem to differ significantly between the two. Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency and it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of existing homes. It would be a HUGE step. There is a reason building codes apply to new construction and old houses are grand fathered in. It is not economically feasible to upgrade even a reasonably new (say 10 years old) to current code. My 60 year old barn would need new windows, roof structure, foundations, electrical, plumbing, insulation in the walls... The foundations alone would make it cheaper to tear down and rebuild. I confused; what does expense have to do with anything? If we can spend money to run the country on sunbeams we can mandate pocket money to reduce our energy demand to that which can be supplied by sunbeams. After all, it's for the children, for the whales, for a greener, more sustainable planet. Here's the text: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...yoUT0:e400671: You'll note that we'll have to conform to the International Energy Conservation Code Get your copy he http://www.iccsafe.org/e/prodshow.html?prodid=3800S06 |
How I think the economy will go and why
Douglas Johnson wrote in
: "HeyBub" wrote: Douglas Johnson wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply with the new laws. Do you have a citation for this? Thanks, Doug We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a 1,400 page bill) Actually, it's pretty easy. Right in the table of contents: "SEC. 304. GREATER ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN BUILDING CODES." It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as onerous as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes but was modified to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the gamut of things down to water heater insulation. The section does not address water heater insulation or any other specific practice at all. It requires the establishment of national energy building codes that meet certain energy reduction targets by certain dates. It doesn't say how. I looked at the text of both the first-introduced bill and the one passed and sent to the Senate. Section 304 does not seem to differ significantly between the two. Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency and it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of existing homes. It would be a HUGE step. There is a reason building codes apply to new construction and old houses are grand fathered in. when did reason ever stop Obama and the DemocRATS? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net It is not economically feasible to upgrade even a reasonably new (say 10 years old) to current code. My 60 year old barn would need new windows, roof structure, foundations, electrical, plumbing, insulation in the walls... The foundations alone would make it cheaper to tear down and rebuild. We would have to tear down most of the nation's housing stock. Now that's a stimulus package! -- Doug -- Doug Obama plans to tear down the entire US economy. Cap and Trade. |
How I think the economy will go and why
On Jul 13, 7:25*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"phil scott" wrote in message ... It is a fact that if a nation PRINTS trillions of dollars to solve its financial problems, that hyper inflation and collapse will follow. However.... our US govt is NOT *printing any money,...... it is **issuing electronic credits***, that act as money, and may indeed stimulate the economy....this is assisted by low interest rates so people can afford to buy homes and build businesses etc... *little actual money is being printed though. all this is happening as deflation due to tough economic times takes the hot air out of the housing and stock markets etc. * the collapsing tax base will also force the bloat out of government... * * all if tgus us a *good thing. This deflation *will be painful and *could lead to total collapse.... unless enough trillions in added *credit are issued into the economy through the banks to keep things afloat... floating on a massive sea of *credit. * thats whats happening now... its all just barely floating on a massive sea of credit... but it is doing this as the housing and stock market bubbles deflate. * thats a good and a necessary thing... so far we are deflating these bubbles, and our bloated state governments without total collapse. With luck that will be continued. ***** * again, this sea of funny money ***is not actually money*** (just credit), no extra currency is printed for most of it... the US Dollar may very well *regain its value, when the FED raises interest rates again after these bubbles hit bottom... * that will be tricky and it remains to be seen how that will be pulled off, especially given the 300 trillion dollars or so in hot air derivitives (insurance policies used to guarantee bad loans). it may be that as the large insurers, such as AIG go broke, file bankrupcy and defualt that a good percentage of this derivitive mess will simply evaporate *(like so many trillions in the worlds pension funds have already evaporated.) as the work force gets more *desperate, and half of the bloated govt work force is laid off, and the rest got their bloated retirements cut by 70% or so, and the social security recipients are unfortunately cut back to starvation levels..... and we start manufacturing in the US again...we will recover...... it will be a nasty next 15 to 20 years (time span directly calculated from life expectancy tables) all of that is necessary...and will happen on the current path if we are lucky... depends on many things though, luck, oil prices, what we do about nuclear energy, and what other nations do etc.. *** when that stabilizes, my guess in 10 or 20 years of tight times, during which time the 80 million social security recipients will all be deader than hell... restoriing the national economy... * *full recovery will begin, that will take another 15 to 20 years... and we have seen these time frames recently in China and Russia. then.... interest rates will be raised again, restoring the value of the US dollar in world markets. * Investing in the mean time may be problematical. *Some high tech areas will pay off well. * The best investments will be in ones own operation, skill sets and networks. imo *** Support for this argument is my observation that the FED is willing to loan 'money' to the banks at 1% or less, and the banks are willing to loan at 4%... that tells you that those in charge have a solution for hyper inflation.. and I believe my memo here describes that solution... if relatively few *actual dollar bills are printed, paying the money back will be difficult and the 4% intrest will provide the banks with a real profit. why: (if the the treasury prints the actual bills, in excess of actual GDP, then the banks will lose, and collapse...thats why this thing is being done with credit to the banks... and not by putting dollar bills into peoples hands). These guys in charge of the money, as corrupt as they are, probably do know what they are doing in this aspect at least...they need to save their own asses as well as ours. *** Predictions: a lot of folks will go broke in the financual turmoil...especially retailers and people with high overhead and into non essential businesses. * * * actual producers of goods, and essential services with *low overhead will mostly survive imo. actual producers who extend too much credit to those about to go under, (that is about half the Malls and stores in the US) * *will get burnt...due to tight money, that will put many contractors etc out of business as we are already seeing. this is of course avoidable by structuring for low overhead operations...getting a sufficient advance on jobs and progress payments in advance of progress... I think those contractors will survive ... (this was a memo to one of my contr clients) Phil scott Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No? Ive semi retired as a mech /electrical engr. and currently do my own and a few commcl building repairs...Im not so bad at it. in some aspects I can be of significant help. Your situation apparently is that you misconstrue an off topic post as a troll... those are two different animals.... USENET rules btw encourage a degree of off topic posts, as broader human interest.. 20% or so is the number mentioned. You personally, appear to have a desire to trash others... friend, that backfires internally on its host,,, you are suffering from that. but its reversible by obvious measures. I wish you well in these regards, Phil scott be gone, troll plonk- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
How I think the economy will go and why
On Jul 14, 5:33*am, Frank wrote:
SteveB wrote: "phil scott" wrote in message .... It is a fact that if a nation PRINTS trillions of dollars to solve its financial problems, that hyper inflation and collapse will follow. However.... our US govt is NOT *printing any money,...... it is **issuing electronic credits***, that act as money, and may indeed stimulate the economy....this is assisted by low interest rates so people can afford to buy homes and build businesses etc... *little actual money is being printed though. all this is happening as deflation due to tough economic times takes the hot air out of the housing and stock markets etc. * the collapsing tax base will also force the bloat out of government... * * all if tgus us a *good thing. This deflation *will be painful and *could lead to total collapse..... unless enough trillions in added *credit are issued into the economy through the banks to keep things afloat... floating on a massive sea of *credit. * thats whats happening now... its all just barely floating on a massive sea of credit... but it is doing this as the housing and stock market bubbles deflate. * thats a good and a necessary thing... so far we are deflating these bubbles, and our bloated state governments without total collapse. With luck that will be continued. ***** * again, this sea of funny money ***is not actually money*** (just credit), no extra currency is printed for most of it... the US Dollar may very well *regain its value, when the FED raises interest rates again after these bubbles hit bottom... * that will be tricky and it remains to be seen how that will be pulled off, especially given the 300 trillion dollars or so in hot air derivitives (insurance policies used to guarantee bad loans). it may be that as the large insurers, such as AIG go broke, file bankrupcy and defualt that a good percentage of this derivitive mess will simply evaporate *(like so many trillions in the worlds pension funds have already evaporated.) as the work force gets more *desperate, and half of the bloated govt work force is laid off, and the rest got their bloated retirements cut by 70% or so, and the social security recipients are unfortunately cut back to starvation levels..... and we start manufacturing in the US again...we will recover...... it will be a nasty next 15 to 20 years (time span directly calculated from life expectancy tables) all of that is necessary...and will happen on the current path if we are lucky... depends on many things though, luck, oil prices, what we do about nuclear energy, and what other nations do etc.. *** when that stabilizes, my guess in 10 or 20 years of tight times, during which time the 80 million social security recipients will all be deader than hell... restoriing the national economy... * *full recovery will begin, that will take another 15 to 20 years... and we have seen these time frames recently in China and Russia. then.... interest rates will be raised again, restoring the value of the US dollar in world markets. * Investing in the mean time may be problematical. *Some high tech areas will pay off well. * The best investments will be in ones own operation, skill sets and networks. imo *** Support for this argument is my observation that the FED is willing to loan 'money' to the banks at 1% or less, and the banks are willing to loan at 4%... that tells you that those in charge have a solution for hyper inflation.. and I believe my memo here describes that solution... if relatively few *actual dollar bills are printed, paying the money back will be difficult and the 4% intrest will provide the banks with a real profit. why: (if the the treasury prints the actual bills, in excess of actual GDP, then the banks will lose, and collapse...thats why this thing is being done with credit to the banks... and not by putting dollar bills into peoples hands). These guys in charge of the money, as corrupt as they are, probably do know what they are doing in this aspect at least...they need to save their own asses as well as ours. *** Predictions: a lot of folks will go broke in the financual turmoil...especially retailers and people with high overhead and into non essential businesses. * * * actual producers of goods, and essential services with *low overhead will mostly survive imo. actual producers who extend too much credit to those about to go under, (that is about half the Malls and stores in the US) * *will get burnt...due to tight money, that will put many contractors etc out of business as we are already seeing. this is of course avoidable by structuring for low overhead operations...getting a sufficient advance on jobs and progress payments in advance of progress... I think those contractors will survive ... (this was a memo to one of my contr clients) Phil scott Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No? be gone, troll plonk Actually if BO's new energy bill goes through, it will have a lot to do with home repair because homeowners must comply with it.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - that is correct... and home owners are also currently being affected by the economic mess, staying strictly with how to fix ones toilet, does little to fuel discussion on a NG. Phil scott |
How I think the economy will go and why
On Jul 14, 10:02*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
Frank wrote : SteveB wrote: Do you have anything to say about home repairs? *No? be gone, troll plonk Actually if BO's new energy bill goes through, it will have a lot to do with home repair because homeowners must comply with it. Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply with the new laws. now! that will be exciting! is that really the case? Unbelievable if it is. it will sure as hell keep us semi retired contractor types busy as hell though. Phil Scott -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
How I think the economy will go and why
On Jul 14, 1:28*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Douglas Johnson wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Yes,you will not be able to sell your house if it doesn't comply with the new laws. Do you have a citation for this? Thanks, Doug We dug it out once a couple of weeks ago (it's tough to find in a 1,400 page bill) It's in the House version of the Cap-and-Trade bill, though not as onerous as it sounds. It originally applied to sales of ALL homes but was modified to apply only to NEW construction. It includes the gamut of things down to water heater insulation. OK, thats better, NEW construction only, applied to existing homes it would bankrupt the existing housing market. Still, it's the beginning of a federal standard of energy efficiency and it's only a small additional step to impose it on the sale of existing homes. Phil scott |
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