Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

In article ,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion." Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the
middle of the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers
of shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire nuts.

In article , Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion."

Then your advice is worth exactly what the OP is paying for it. In many
places, the Code is _the law_.

Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the
middle of the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers
of shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire nuts.

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.

On Jun 27, 10:24*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Smitty Two wrote:





In article ,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. *Total run 75 feet.. *Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? *Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. *Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion."

Then your advice is worth exactly what the OP is paying for it. In many
places, the Code is _the law_.

Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the
middle of the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers
of shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire nuts..

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agreed especially since he mentioned soldeing the wires. The code
should be violated only by those who know how |.

Jimmie

In article , JIMMIE wrote:
On Jun 27, 10:24=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.

Agreed especially since he mentioned soldeing the wires. The code
should be violated only by those who know how |.

Soldering isn't a Code violation.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:52:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , JIMMIE wrote:
On Jun 27, 10:24=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.

Agreed especially since he mentioned soldeing the wires. The code
should be violated only by those who know how |.

Soldering isn't a Code violation.

Soldering stranded cable CAN be.

On Jun 27, 1:52*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , JIMMIE wrote:

On Jun 27, 10:24=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.
Agreed especially since he mentioned soldeing the wires. The code
should be violated only by those who know how |.

Soldering isn't a Code violation.

I dont know what the NEC says about soldering but its a bad idea.
Solder joints cant handle 20 amps of current unless they are made
extremely well. Ive known to many really fine electricians that
couldnt solder worth anything. Even a pretty good solder joint will
melt with 10 amps. Cycle the load on an off a few times and the joint
will soon have more resistance than the hair dryer someone had been
using on the circuit.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
On Jun 27, 10:24 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Smitty Two wrote:





In article ,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.
Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.
All replies appreciated.
Ivan Vegvary
This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion."
Then your advice is worth exactly what the OP is paying for it. In many
places, the Code is _the law_.

Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the
middle of the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers
of shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire nuts.
Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes are
there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agreed especially since he mentioned soldeing the wires. The code
should be violated only by those who know how |.

Jimmie

Code ain't for you. Code is for the poor SOB 20 years from now, and a
couple of owners later, trying to reverse-engineer what the hell you
did. Yeah, odds are an in-line splice would work, and if done properly,
would never fail. But how much would it cost to buy a long enough cable,
or put a proper junction box in the middle? Shortly after I moved in
here, I found a badly-done butt splice floating in the bathroom wall,
because previous owner was too cheap or lazy to run a new wire, all of
about 15 feet. Just recently, I discovered the 4' fluorescents in the
basement were hooked up above the drop ceiling, by shoving the ends of
the romex into duplex outlets wired into the octagon boxes that once
held the original porcelain fixtures. I still need to rewire those, so I
can have light in the basement again...

--
aem sends...

On 6/27/2009 7:24 AM Doug Miller spake thus:

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

In article , "Ivan
Vegvary" wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the middle of
the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers of
shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire
nuts.

Code violation, and, if underground, unsafe besides. Electrical codes
are there for a reason. Don't advise people to disregard them.

Ditto. Unsafe, as I have seen with my own two eyes what happens when
water gets inside conduit and finds its way inside conductors (this
happened when the insulation was nicked when the wires were pulled).
Result was a corroded spot in the wire which caused an open circuit.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Jun 27, 10:24 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion."

Then your advice is worth exactly what the OP is paying for it. In many
places, the Code is _the law_.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't disputing that. He just meant that no one
would ever know...

On the other hand, I do think it's a bad suggestion. He hasn't said so
yet, but I highly suspect that this is to go underground. If that
solder joint fails, damages the other wires and melts the conduit
someday, he's going to hate life when he has to dig it up and replace
it.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet.
Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind
of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back
$30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

This is one of those instances where'd I'd say the code is a
"suggestion." Sort of like a stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the
middle of the night. If you can solder well and put a couple of layers
of shrink tube on it, I'd say go for it. I wouldn't do it with wire nuts.

I disagree. Certainly one can make a successful splice in a potentially wet
location. This is done with deep well pumps where the splice is actually
under water. The difference is that a qualified person knows that there is a
splice down in the well, so if the pump doesn't work, a few tests can
determine the problem and the mechanic knows where to look for the open
circuit. If a person wily nilly makes splices in inaccessible locations,
where they're illegal as per code, who would even think to look there.

In article , "RBM"
wrote:

If a person wily nilly makes splices in inaccessible locations,
where they're illegal as per code, who would even think to look there.

If there's no continuity from one end of the cable to the other, then
there's a break somewhere in between. Anyone would think to look there.
A well-made splice in the situation the OP describes is never going to
fail, anyway. And if it does, the length of wire is readily pulled and
replaced. Illegal? Sure. So what, says I. If you understand the reason
for the code, you understand under what circumstances you can ignore it,
particularly in your own home.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "RBM"
wrote:

If a person wily nilly makes splices in inaccessible locations,
where they're illegal as per code, who would even think to look there.

If there's no continuity from one end of the cable to the other, then
there's a break somewhere in between. Anyone would think to look there.
A well-made splice in the situation the OP describes is never going to
fail, anyway. And if it does, the length of wire is readily pulled and
replaced. Illegal? Sure. So what, says I. If you understand the reason
for the code, you understand under what circumstances you can ignore it,
particularly in your own home.

But that assumes that somehow you will always be there and available for
the life of the house. Standard practice makes tons of sense because
there is a common baseline and you don't have to scratch your head
because of corner cutting and hay baled work done by someone else.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article , "RBM"
wrote:

If a person wily nilly makes splices in inaccessible locations,
where they're illegal as per code, who would even think to look there.

If there's no continuity from one end of the cable to the other, then
there's a break somewhere in between. Anyone would think to look there.
A well-made splice in the situation the OP describes is never going to
fail, anyway. And if it does, the length of wire is readily pulled and
replaced. Illegal? Sure. So what, says I. If you understand the reason
for the code, you understand under what circumstances you can ignore it,
particularly in your own home.



You are demonstrating your inexperience in your statement. For one thing
"your own home" becomes someone else's home at some point. True, one can
determine that the conductor is shorted or open, but when things are not
done by the book, it invariably takes longer to find the problem, since we
begin looking for the most logical location to find the problem. Another
thing, when multiple conductors are pulled in a conduit, they're pulled
together. In the process they get twisted around each other. Often you
cannot just "readily" pull a conductor out of the bunch. Sometimes the
"stuff" that accumulates in underground conduits acts as a glue, and can
make it difficult or impossible to remove the conductors intact, especially
if you've got some lump of a splice in there. Do it once, do it right. You
may have every right to muck up your own home, but I would refrain from
recommending that it's OK for others to do it

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:31:18 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article , "RBM"
wrote:

If a person wily nilly makes splices in inaccessible locations,
where they're illegal as per code, who would even think to look there.

If there's no continuity from one end of the cable to the other, then
there's a break somewhere in between. Anyone would think to look there.
A well-made splice in the situation the OP describes is never going to
fail, anyway. And if it does, the length of wire is readily pulled and
replaced. Illegal? Sure. So what, says I. If you understand the reason
for the code, you understand under what circumstances you can ignore it,
particularly in your own home.



You are demonstrating your inexperience in your statement. For one thing
"your own home" becomes someone else's home at some point. True, one can
determine that the conductor is shorted or open, but when things are not


You should be able to do what you want in YOUR home. After all, it
would be YOUR family and YOUR friends that could be killed.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:44:39 -0700, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.


NEC does not allow this. Connections must be made in an accessable
approved electrical box.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:19:21 -0400, Phisherman
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:44:39 -0700, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.


NEC does not allow this. Connections must be made in an accessable
approved electrical box.


Not 100% true any more.
There are now "T-Tap" devices approved by the NEC, UL, and CSA for
making connections without a junction box in non-accessible locations.
I would never use them or advise anyone to use them, but they are
(currently) legal and available.
Aluminum wire and Urea formadehyde insulation were both legal and
available in the not so distant past as well.
However, the NEC has not (yet) allowed a splice inside a conduit.

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet.
Does code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it
is kind of accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in
case of problems. Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long
sweeps.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance
I would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy
a few feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me
back $30.

I wouldn't recommend a spliced connection in conduit. I don't believe code
allows it, but even if you made a successful soldered and insulated splice
that section of the wire would be "stiff" compared to the rest of the
flexible wire. It may make it more difficult to pull the wire through
conduit bends, and if the splice is not "mechanically" as strong as the
wire, you could pull the splice apart when pulling the cable. You would
never know if there is damage to the splice until you have an electrical
problem. For example, say a portion of the splice breaks but leaves a
strand or two of the stranded wire. It would work fine until put under
enough load to overheat the wire. This could melt the insulation on
adjoining cables and cause a short.

You didn't mention what this conduit run was for, but I suspect $30 for a
piece of wire is minimal compared to the rest of the project. Have you
compared the cost of the wire and conduit, against just running a bare UF
rated underground cable? If you're running conduit, you're probably
spending a little extra to do the job right and allow flexibility in the
future. Why cheap out on the last little piece of wire?

If you're REALLY strapped for cash, watch your local Craigslist for people
getting rid of electrical supplies, and/or post an ad that you're looking
for some. I sold a couple hundred feet of various cables a few months ago
for $10, and see contractors selling surplus all the time. There wouldn't
be any harm using a "larger" wire than you need (i.e. Using a #6 or #8
gauge wire in place of your #10), so that widens your options a bit.

If you're going to do the job, you might as well do it right...

Good Luck,

Anthony

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:11:42 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:44:39 -0700, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
Two 90° bends are involved but I am using long sweeps.

Thanks for the info.
BTW, while I'm typically not a cheapskate, on my retirement allowance I
would rather not pay for a new roll of wire ($65) when I'm only shy a few
feet. Buying a single 75' piece, by the foot, will still set me back $30.

All replies appreciated.

Ivan Vegvary

No splices in the conduit, sorry.

But if the situation allows, you could put a box in the right spot
and make the splice in there....

Paul F.

Paul Franklin wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:11:42 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:44:39 -0700, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Running 3 #10's (stranded) in 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Total run 75 feet. Does
code allow me to have a splice within the conduit? Seems like it is kind of
accessible since I can easily pull it from both ends in case of problems.
....
No splices in the conduit, sorry.

But if the situation allows, you could put a box in the right spot
and make the splice in there....
....

Or, again if it works, you could make one of the bends at a box instead
of the sweep...

Whatever, "pullable for access" doesn't equate to "accessible" per NEC.

--