the costs of hiring local tradesmen, who will suddenly learn that they
no longer work in a "cash business."

And why shouldn't they have to pay taxes like we do??

On May 12, 5:56*pm, (BRUCE) wrote:
the costs of hiring local tradesmen, who will suddenly learn that they
no longer work in a "cash business."

And why shouldn't they have to pay taxes like we do??

They absolutely should pay taxes just like the rest of us. The real
issue is why we are to be forced to report to the government on our
purchases from each and every contractor or tradesman that we use.
That is forcing additional fees on us to report to the government on
what someone else earns. That entails a substantial amount of
additional time and expense to obtain and maintain the information as
well as send the reports to both the tradesman and the government.
Just another straw on the back of business.

Supposing there is a contractor who does cash business. And
another one who pays taxes. Here's how the two scenarios
play out:

Contractor one. Cash business. Charges $100 for the job. He
uses the money to buy highly taxed fuel for his truck, and
then stops on the way home to buy food for his family. He
stops by the department store to buy some toys for his kids,
and supports local business. Your job is done the next day.

Contractor two. Pays his taxes. He can't do the job for
$100. He has to charge $130. Part of the extra money goes to
pay the book keeper at the office, who fills out all the
government forms. He pays income tax on the money that he
takes home, which means that about $30 ou tof the $100 you
paid him goes to the state and fed. And then he "pays
taxes" by charging you $10.40 in sales tax, which the state
requires. He turns that money over to government. Which
means that your $100 job is now up to $140.40. There is an
insurance surcharge, and a government paper work handling
surcharge. So, the job is up to about $160 now. Meantime,
the local department store is laying off workers, becuase
Mr. Contractor isn't buying toys and videos for his kids any
more. So much of the job is going to pay taxes.

The state hires two more code enforcement workers, whose job
it is to call Mr. Contractor into the office, and go over
his books. Now, there will be a 5 day delay before he can
start the job. Because he and his book keeper will be in the
audit office. Meantime, your roof is leaking, and a lot of
stuff is water damaged while the contractor is in the audit
office.

I hope you feel better, knowing that the contractor pays his
fair share. By the way, he pays it by adding to the cost of
your job.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"BobR" wrote in message
...

And why shouldn't they have to pay taxes like we do??

They absolutely should pay taxes just like the rest of us.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:






The state hires two more code enforcement workers, whose job
it is to call Mr. Contractor into the office, and go over
his books. Now, there will be a 5 day delay before he can
start the job. Because he and his book keeper will be in the
audit office. Meantime, your roof is leaking, and a lot of
stuff is water damaged while the contractor is in the audit
office.

I hope you feel better, knowing that the contractor pays his
fair share. By the way, he pays it by adding to the cost of
your job.

Of course I am also paying an added cost for Contractor 1 because
someone has to make up the taxes that he ain't paying. And Contractor 1
puts the job off for 3 to 5 while he serves time for tax evasion or has
to up the cost of the job to pay for penalties and interest to keep his
butt out of jail. I feel much better for the guy who is paying the taxes.
Of course, this is a debate completely separate from whether the
taxes themselves are a good thing.

--
"Distracting a politician from governing
is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."

--PJ O'Rourke

Of course I am also paying an added cost for
Contractor 1 because
someone has to make up the taxes that he ain't paying.

CY: I disagree. I know of no department that says "Well,
Contractor 1 should have collected $72 in taxes from that
consumer, so we'll have to increase the other guys taxes
that much". My view is that government expands faster than
the rate of tax increase. So, I do what I can to encourage
people to pay less taxes.

And Contractor 1
puts the job off for 3 to 5 while he serves time for tax
evasion or has
to up the cost of the job to pay for penalties and interest
to keep his
butt out of jail. I feel much better for the guy who is
paying the taxes.

CY: No problem. Find a different contractor.

Of course, this is a debate completely separate from
whether the
taxes themselves are a good thing.

CY: We could add the "good thing" discussion, if you wish.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Of course I am also paying an added cost for
Contractor 1 because
someone has to make up the taxes that he ain't paying.

CY: I disagree. I know of no department that says "Well,
Contractor 1 should have collected $72 in taxes from that
consumer, so we'll have to increase the other guys taxes
that much". My view is that government expands faster than
the rate of tax increase. So, I do what I can to encourage
people to pay less taxes.


All of them do exactly that in practice and in theory. They
base their alleged budgets on what they think is coming in. To the
extent that others don't pay, the shortfall has to be made up somewhere
and that is through higher taxes (or more money printed which is
essentially the same thing). As you pointed out, you are advocating the
punishment of the person who person who obeys the law.
Just out of personal curiosity (real honest question). How do you
feel about illegal aliens being used by contractors?



Of course, this is a debate completely separate from
whether the
taxes themselves are a good thing.

CY: We could add the "good thing" discussion, if you wish.
I was trying my best to avoid it, which is why I separated it (g).

--
"Distracting a politician from governing
is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."

--PJ O'Rourke

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Supposing there is a contractor who does cash business. And
another one who pays taxes. Here's how the two scenarios
play out:

Contractor one. Cash business. Charges $100 for the job. He
uses the money to buy highly taxed fuel for his truck, and
then stops on the way home to buy food for his family. He
stops by the department store to buy some toys for his kids,
and supports local business. Your job is done the next day.

Contractor two. Pays his taxes. He can't do the job for
$100. He has to charge $130. Part of the extra money goes to
pay the book keeper at the office, who fills out all the
government forms. He pays income tax on the money that he
takes home, which means that about $30 ou tof the $100 you
paid him goes to the state and fed. And then he "pays
taxes" by charging you $10.40 in sales tax, which the state
requires. He turns that money over to government. Which
means that your $100 job is now up to $140.40. There is an
insurance surcharge, and a government paper work handling
surcharge. So, the job is up to about $160 now. Meantime,
the local department store is laying off workers, becuase
Mr. Contractor isn't buying toys and videos for his kids any
more. So much of the job is going to pay taxes.

The state hires two more code enforcement workers, whose job
it is to call Mr. Contractor into the office, and go over
his books. Now, there will be a 5 day delay before he can
start the job. Because he and his book keeper will be in the
audit office. Meantime, your roof is leaking, and a lot of
stuff is water damaged while the contractor is in the audit
office.

I hope you feel better, knowing that the contractor pays his
fair share. By the way, he pays it by adding to the cost of
your job.

I'll forward your comments to the IRS for review, Chris. I imagine
they'll say it's fine for you to not pay taxes, since in your
magnanimity you're saving your customers so much money.

On May 13, 6:07*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Supposing there is a contractor who does cash business. And
another one who pays taxes. Here's how the two scenarios
play out:

Contractor one. Cash business. Charges $100 for the job. He
uses the money to buy highly taxed fuel for his truck, and
then stops on the way home to buy food for his family. He
stops by the department store to buy some toys for his kids,
and supports local business. Your job is done the next day.

Contractor two. Pays his taxes. He can't do the job for
$100. He has to charge $130. Part of the extra money goes to
pay the book keeper at the office, who fills out all the
government forms. He pays income tax on the money that he
takes home, which means that about $30 ou tof the $100 you
paid him goes to the state and fed. *And then he "pays
taxes" by charging you $10.40 in sales tax, which the state
requires. He turns that money over to government. Which
means that your $100 job is now up to $140.40. There is an
insurance surcharge, and a government paper work handling
surcharge. So, the job is up to about $160 now. Meantime,
the local department store is laying off workers, becuase
Mr. Contractor isn't buying toys and videos for his kids any
more. So much of the job is going to pay taxes.

The state hires two more code enforcement workers, whose job
it is to call Mr. Contractor into the office, and go over
his books. Now, there will be a 5 day delay before he can
start the job. Because he and his book keeper will be in the
audit office. Meantime, your roof is leaking, and a lot of
stuff is water damaged while the contractor is in the audit
office.

I hope you feel better, knowing that the contractor pays his
fair share. By the way, he pays it by adding to the cost of
your job.


SO? Should I feel better that my taxes would have to be higher still
should all contractors be like the first and choose to not report the
income and pair their fair share of the taxes?

You have been duped by the assumption that there is some
"number of dollars" the govt needs. I believe that govt
spends about 1.2 to 1.5 times what it takes in.

One person failing to pay taxes doesn't necessarily mean
that someone else has to pay more. It just means that the
govt has less of our money.

How many times have you been audited. And the auditor says
"the contractor on the other side of town did a cash job, so
I'm adding $50 to your assessment."

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"BobR" wrote in message
...

SO? Should I feel better that my taxes would have to be
higher still
should all contractors be like the first and choose to not
report the
income and pair their fair share of the taxes?

On Wed, 13 May 2009 21:05:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You have been duped by the assumption that there is some
"number of dollars" the govt needs. I believe that govt
spends about 1.2 to 1.5 times what it takes in.

One person failing to pay taxes doesn't necessarily mean
that someone else has to pay more. It just means that the
govt has less of our money.

Which will translate into fewer services from the government.



How many times have you been audited. And the auditor says
"the contractor on the other side of town did a cash job, so
I'm adding $50 to your assessment."

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Supposing there is a contractor who does cash business. And
another one who pays taxes. Here's how the two scenarios
play out:

Contractor one. Cash business. Charges $100 for the job. He
uses the money to buy highly taxed fuel for his truck, and
then stops on the way home to buy food for his family. He
stops by the department store to buy some toys for his kids,
and supports local business. Your job is done the next day.

Contractor two. Pays his taxes. He can't do the job for
$100. He has to charge $130. Part of the extra money goes to
pay the book keeper at the office, who fills out all the
government forms. He pays income tax on the money that he
takes home, which means that about $30 ou tof the $100 you
paid him goes to the state and fed. And then he "pays
taxes" by charging you $10.40 in sales tax, which the state
requires. He turns that money over to government. Which
means that your $100 job is now up to $140.40. There is an
insurance surcharge, and a government paper work handling
surcharge. So, the job is up to about $160 now. Meantime,
the local department store is laying off workers, becuase
Mr. Contractor isn't buying toys and videos for his kids any
more. So much of the job is going to pay taxes.

The state hires two more code enforcement workers, whose job
it is to call Mr. Contractor into the office, and go over
his books. Now, there will be a 5 day delay before he can
start the job. Because he and his book keeper will be in the
audit office. Meantime, your roof is leaking, and a lot of
stuff is water damaged while the contractor is in the audit
office.

I hope you feel better, knowing that the contractor pays his
fair share. By the way, he pays it by adding to the cost of
your job.

So whats your point? Taxes are typically paid by adding a cost to
something. Your argument is also completely ridiculous that a tax cheat
is somehow more efficient than one who pays taxes. Contractor one is a
tax cheat no matter how you rationalize it.

If you don't want to pay taxes then you have something called a vote. It
gives us the ability to fire politicians. Unfortunately most people are
busy watching American idol or twittering or whatever to get involved..