Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

On May 2, 11:13*am, bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

Unless its a condensing unit double wall pipe may be code as it will
be hot, but I was cheap and lazy and didnt use it on my tankless. My
blower takes less than 100w if I remember, so figure out your time
used, and be sure to measure gas supply with a Manometer with all gas
apliances on and calculate in winter mains pressure reductions, or you
might hava cold shower next winter.

On May 2, 12:13*pm, bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

Big advantage of not needing electricity is that you have hot water
during a power failure. Maybe that's a big deal for you, maybe not. I
had a DV water heater (40-gal, not tankless) installed for this
reason.

I didn't know tankless heaters were available that don't need power.
What ignites the flame when you run the water?

Disadvantage is more expensive vent (as you've noticed) and much
tighter restrictions on length, height and bends in the vent, relative
to the power vent ones, which can be much further from your outside
wall. I had a plumber install mine so I can't comment on the DIY
issues.

Chip C
Toronto

On May 3, 11:26*am, Chip C wrote:
On May 2, 12:13*pm, bari-old-dad wrote:





Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

Big advantage of not needing electricity is that you have hot water
during a power failure. Maybe that's a big deal for you, maybe not. I
had a DV water heater (40-gal, not tankless) installed for this
reason.

I didn't know tankless heaters were available that don't need power.
What ignites the flame when you run the water?

Disadvantage is more expensive vent (as you've noticed) and much
tighter restrictions on length, height and bends in the vent, relative
to the power vent ones, which can be much further from your outside
wall. I had a plumber install mine so I can't comment on the DIY
issues.

Chip C
Toronto- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My tankless uses 2 D cells for Piezo ignition, some have mini Hydro
generators that turn with water flow.

bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

My State brand PV is 2.8amps on the dilution blower. Exhaust temp is
very low. Vented through PVC. A DYI job without problem.

DYI? Do Yourself In?

It sounds like the power vent is actually a bit simpler to
install. Living in NYS, we do power cuts once a year or so.
During the winter, a hot shower sure is nice. Well, it's
nice during the summer, too. Remember, if you install the
power vent model, you'll have no hot water while the power
is off.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

My State brand PV is 2.8amps on the dilution blower.
Exhaust temp is
very low. Vented through PVC. A DYI job without problem.

On May 5, 6:11*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
DYI? Do Yourself In?

It sounds like the power vent is actually a bit simpler to
install. Living in NYS, we do power cuts once a year or so.
During the winter, a hot shower sure is nice. Well, it's
nice during the summer, too. Remember, if you install the
power vent model, you'll have no hot water while the power
is off.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...

My State brand PV is 2.8amps on the dilution blower.
Exhaust temp is
very low. *Vented through PVC. *A DYI job without problem.

You can have HW without electricity, you shouldnt of course as a rule.
Several times over the years while doing work ive made a mistake of un
plugging my tankless blower and forgetting to plug it back in, yes the
blower probably is not to code. I took a shower and realised my
mistake and went down to check Co on a digital meter and there was
none, I believe some gas still vented and the Co buildup wasnt great
enough for 5-6 minutes of runninng to register anything on peak level.

On May 5, 7:54�am, ransley wrote:
On May 5, 6:11�am, "Stormin Mormon"





wrote:
DYI? Do Yourself In?

It sounds like the power vent is actually a bit simpler to
install. Living in NYS, we do power cuts once a year or so.
During the winter, a hot shower sure is nice. Well, it's
nice during the summer, too. Remember, if you install the
power vent model, you'll have no hot water while the power
is off.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
�www.lds.org
.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...

My State brand PV is 2.8amps on the dilution blower.
Exhaust temp is
very low. �Vented through PVC. �A DYI job without problem.

You can have HW without electricity, you shouldnt of course as a rule.
Several times over the years while doing work ive made a mistake of un
plugging my tankless blower and forgetting to plug it back in, yes the
blower probably is not to code. I took a shower and realised my
mistake and went down to check Co on a digital meter and there was
none, I believe some gas still vented and the Co buildup wasnt great
enough for 5-6 minutes of runninng to register anything on peak level.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

so you admit your install isnt even up to code?

you go mon and on about how wonderful tankless are, not to code makes
your info questionable at best, and downright bad info at worst
dangerousd.........

Stormin Mormon wrote:
DYI? Do Yourself In?

It sounds like the power vent is actually a bit simpler to
install. Living in NYS, we do power cuts once a year or so.
During the winter, a hot shower sure is nice. Well, it's
nice during the summer, too. Remember, if you install the
power vent model, you'll have no hot water while the power
is off.


I'm still not seeing what is going to happen to the 40 or 50 gallons of
hot water that are in the tank. And also, who the hell wants to shower
in the dark? This argument that you won't have hot water in a power
failure just doesn't hold water. G

On May 5, 8:18�am, Steve Barker wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
DYI? Do Yourself In?

It sounds like the power vent is actually a bit simpler to
install. Living in NYS, we do power cuts once a year or so.
During the winter, a hot shower sure is nice. Well, it's
nice during the summer, too. Remember, if you install the
power vent model, you'll have no hot water while the power
is off.

I'm still not seeing what is going to happen to the 40 or 50 gallons of
hot water that are in the tank. �And also, �who the hell wants to shower
in the dark? �This argument that you won't have hot water in a power
failure just doesn't hold water. �G

A TANKLESS HAS NO WATER IN THE TANK!! Because there is NO TANK!

over the years we have had power failures including a memorable 3 day
one. some nearby were off over a week

you can run a garden hose thru your home, snaking it around ending at
tub to provide minimal warmth espically valuable in the winter.

our tank is 75,000 BTU just a tad less than our furnace.

Sigh. Explaining is such a tankless job.

I heard years ago, about the hot water run slowly through a
hose. Sort of like an above the floor Wirsbo system. Very
useful, espically in a winter power cut.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

A TANKLESS HAS NO WATER IN THE TANK!! Because there is NO
TANK!

over the years we have had power failures including a
memorable 3 day
one. some nearby were off over a week

you can run a garden hose thru your home, snaking it around
ending at
tub to provide minimal warmth espically valuable in the
winter.

our tank is 75,000 BTU just a tad less than our furnace.

I don't have the original post, but I thought it was a low
capacity instant heater. Best of luck showering with 2
galons of water contained in the tank. I had a 12 gal WH
years ago, and that made for quick showers.

So, shower daytime with sunlight coming in. Or, take a
candle in the shower.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

I'm still not seeing what is going to happen to the 40 or 50
gallons of
hot water that are in the tank. And also, who the hell
wants to shower
in the dark? This argument that you won't have hot water in
a power
failure just doesn't hold water. G

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

If you are set on tankless, I would go with a direct vent. There are a
couple of reasons for this. First, if you find yourself having to
powervent, it may be cheaper to just move the tankless HWH to a spot where
you can direct vent and replumb since you have the ability to sweat copper.
There are two savings he the double walled stainless vent pipe isn't
cheap and the powervent tankless HWH is more expensive than the DV one.
Secondly, as others have pointed out, there's no stored hot water, so if
electricity goes out to the vent blower, you won't have any hot water.

HTH,

jc

On May 5, 10:45�am, "Joe" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...



bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

If you are set on tankless, I would go with a direct vent. �There are a
couple of reasons for this. �First, if you find yourself having to
powervent, it may be cheaper to just move the tankless HWH to a spot where
you can direct vent and replumb since you have the ability to sweat copper.

On May 5, 11:29*am, bob haller wrote:
On May 5, 10:45 am, "Joe" wrote:





"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...

bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

If you are set on tankless, I would go with a direct vent. There are a
couple of reasons for this. First, if you find yourself having to
powervent, it may be cheaper to just move the tankless HWH to a spot where
you can direct vent and replumb since you have the ability to sweat copper.
There are two savings he the double walled stainless vent pipe isn't
cheap and the powervent tankless HWH is more expensive than the DV one.
Secondly, as others have pointed out, there's no stored hot water, so if
electricity goes out to the vent blower, you won't have any hot water.

HTH,

jc- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OP will need gas pressure flow tests, before install, and likely a new
gas ine directly from meter to install spot.

that might make a power vent heater cheaper install wise.

remember most tankless owners report a delay between hot water on and
hot water arrives, this is caused because the tankless must detect hot
water use, turn on and get burner and heat exchanger hot, before heat
can be transfered to the water.

http://www.ho****er.com/products/res...vertex100.html

may be a better choice, super high efficency without the downsides of
a tankless and endless hot water........- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Vertex™ 100 Power Direct-Vent Gas Water Heaters
Vertex 100. The "peak demand" water heater!
Unprecedented levels of performance — 96% thermal efficiency
Continuous hot water – shower after shower, hour after hour
An advanced internal heat exchanger with 100,000 BTU input, inspired
by A. O. Smith’s time-tested Cyclone commercial design
Easy to install — dimensions similar to a standard 50-gallon power-
vent water heater
Watch "Designing Spaces" episode

On May 2, 12:13�pm, bari-old-dad wrote:
Shopping for tankless water heater & see e.g. Rheem offers both power
vent and direct vent.

Appears the DV models require a 5" stainless coaxial vent pipe . . .
more expensive and more complicated.

Does not appear the PV requires the coaxial pipe . . . piping outside
air for combustion is optional. So, simpler and cheaper I think?

Downside of PV is use of electricity for blower (when it's running)?
How much can that be? Enough to make the added $$ for the expensive
coaxial stainless worth it?

I am in West-central Ohio with 47-53 degree ground water.

I can sweat copper and run black pipe for gas . . . is vent piping a
"novice beware" job in your opinion?

thx
JR in OH

Hey thankless have many downsides, with your low incoming water
temperature you might need 2 tankless in series to heat enough water.
Low flow may mean no hot water at all Plu buy a tankless with a
local knowledgable dealer they are more complex and will likely need
regular service, to remove hard water buildup.

standby loses of regular tanks are actually pretty low, you may not
save much and the payoff may be longer than the tanklesses useful
life...........

just some things to consider while spending large amount of money