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110V and water
I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off
of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles |
110V and water
"Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles Not unless it is a GFCI breaker. Outdoor splice boxes and underground splices are always wet, from condensation if not direct water entry. If the type of box you have has threaded knockouts, try putting silicone around the threads. |
110V and water
Charles Bishop wrote:
I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. |
110V and water
On Mar 14, 7:46 pm, (Charles Bishop) wrote:
I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. How did the water get in? Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? Only if it had a GFCI and the water caused current flow in the ground wire. |
110V and water
Charles Bishop wrote:
I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? Hi, If it is not GFCI, and pure water is not a good conductor. You should have drain holes on the box and liberal use of silicon sealant to minimize water/moisture build up. |
110V and water
"Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. |
110V and water
"RBM" wrote in message ... "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles Not unless it is a GFCI breaker. Outdoor splice boxes and underground splices are always wet, from condensation if not direct water entry. If the type of box you have has threaded knockouts, try putting silicone around the threads. When underground wiring insulation fails the failure in manifested by a chemical reaction between the conductor and the surrounding earth. With Al wire, this happens quickly. With Cu it's relatively slow. Basically speaking the cable is eaten away and fails "open." In proportion to the current the wire normally delivers to the load, the earth leakage is minor so it will not trip a breaker (except for ground fault, of course.). |
110V and water
Steve Barker wrote:
Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. pure water isn't conductive, but when was the last time you saw any pure water? -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form . |
110V and water
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:44:46 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote: Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? Hi, If it is not GFCI, and pure water is not a good conductor. You should have drain holes on the box and liberal use of silicon sealant to minimize water/moisture build up. Should he seal the drain holes, or use drain-only holes? |
110V and water
On Mar 14, 11:32*pm, Davej wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:46 pm, (Charles Bishop) wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. How did the water get in? Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? Only if it had a GFCI and the water caused current flow in the ground wire. The current flow does not have to be in the ground wire. In fact, a GFCI doesn't need a ground wire at all to work. The GFCI trips when it senses an imbalance between the currents in the hot and neutral, meaning some current is going somewhere else. In this case, it would trip if current was flowing from a wet connection to earth. |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 12:55*am, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. *Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. *It may even heat up the water. *Had a water heater that the element cracked *and was causing the water to heat up way too much. *That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. |
110V and water
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message m... "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. *You reminded me of a commercial kitchen that I serviced many years ago. One time the manager complained that it was taking a long time for the coffee urn to heat the water. No problem with the temperature, but it took a few hours to get hot. I knew that there was a 2000 watt element in the urn so it should have heated up faster. I took the unit apart and found that the element had practically disintegrated. The water was being heated by the current flowing through it. |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 9:45*am, wrote:
On Mar 15, 12:55*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. *Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. *It may even heat up the water. *Had a water heater that the element cracked *and was causing the water to heat up way too much. *That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. *They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. .... of SALT water. You need to add salt or they don't work. Don't you have kids? |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 10:58*am, Pat wrote:
On Mar 15, 9:45*am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. *Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. *It may even heat up the water. *Had a water heater that the element cracked *and was causing the water to heat up way too much. *That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. *They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. *You need to add salt or they don't work. *Don't you have kids?- Hide quoted text - You only need to add salt if the water is low in minerals. Most tap waters work fine. I've had various vaporizers of that type and never had to add salt. In the directions, they talk about adding a small amount of salt if it doesn't work without it. |
110V and water
Steve Barker wrote:
Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. Water itself isn't very conductive but it IS conductive; it's the impurities (dirt, dissolved stuff, etc.) that makes water conductive so it very well could have been. Even rainwater isn't normally pure enough to not trip a GFCI, for example. |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 10:43*am, wrote:
The current flow does not have to be in the ground wire. *In fact, a GFCI doesn't need a ground wire at all to work. *The GFCI trips when it senses an imbalance between the currents in the hot and neutral, meaning some current is going somewhere else. * In this case, it would trip if current was flowing from a wet connection to earth. Glad someone pointed that out. A GFCI (so called "Ground fault ...... ) operates when there is an imbalance between the current flowing in the neutral and live wires; of say a 115 volt circuit. If there IS an imbalance it does not have to be leakage to ground! Although that is a main purpose to protect users of potentially faulty apparatus. Witnessed a situation where a neutral wire was inadvertently also connected to another circuit in the adjacent living unit. Every time they plugged into that circuit, next door, the currents were imbalanced and 'this' GFCI tripped! See another post about whether water conducts! Almost anything will conduct (slightly). |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 10:33*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote: No? Well wet your fingers and stick them in a socket. Van Chocstraw Van. Correct. If your wet fingers present a resistance of say 20,000 ohms a 'small' current WILL flow. For example; 115 volts/20,000 ohms = 5.75 milliamps. Enough to stop your heart in certain circumstance but not near enough to trip a 15 amp (that's 15,000 milliamps) circuit breaker! At low voltage if I hold the two leads of a multimeter in my two hands I get something of the order of 100,000 ohms. If my hands were wet or I dig the points of the meter leads into the skin it is possible to get it down to less than 50,000 ohms. That's how some electricians, dangerously, will test for 115 volts by brushing their fingers quickly across a live lead! |
110V and water
On Mar 15, 2:28*pm, "Twayne" wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. Water itself isn't very conductive but it IS conductive; it's the impurities (dirt, dissolved stuff, etc.) that makes water conductive so it very well could have been. *Even rainwater isn't normally pure enough to not trip a GFCI, for example. Well we get acid rain and there can also be condensation within boxes and conduits etc. Also variuos impurities/dirt etc. can be present that get dissolved into moisture and conduct slightly. It is true that 'distilled' very pure water only conducts slightly. |
110V and water
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:28:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote: Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. That is |
110V and water
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:28:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote: Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. That is not correct. Lots of hot vapour humidifiers work by running the current through water between 110 volt AC electrodes. The water conducts well enough to heat the water to boiling in the tube surrounding the 2 electrodes - and yes, they DO work with distilled and/or RO purified water. |
110V and water
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:28:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote: Charles Bishop wrote: I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? not necessarily, water is not conductive. Di-inized water 5.5 × 10-6[1] changes to 1.2 × 10-4 in water with no gas present[1] Drinking water 0.0005 to 0.05 This value range is typical of high quality drinking water and not an indicator of water quality Water conductivity Pure water is not a good conductor of electricity. Ordinary distilled water in equilibrium with carbon dioxide of the air has a conductivity of about 10 x 10-6 W-1*m-1 (20 dS/m). Because the electrical current is transported by the ions in solution, the conductivity increases as the concentration of ions increases. Thus conductivity increases as water dissolved ionic species. Typical conductivity of waters: Ultra pure water 5.5 · 10-6 S/m Drinking water 0.005 €“ 0.05 S/m Sea water 5 S/m So not HIGHLY conductive may be true, but nonconductive would be false. |
110V and water
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Pat
wrote: On Mar 15, 9:45Â*am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55Â*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Â*Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. Â*It may even heat up the water. Â*Had a water heater that the element cracked Â*and was causing the water to heat up way too much. Â*That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. Â*They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. You need to add salt or they don't work. Don't you have kids? NO they do not require salt, and Chalescraft, for one, distictly cautions AGAINST adding salt. Apparently there is a chlorine danger when NaCl is added to the water. |
110V and water
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110V and water
wrote in message ... On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Pat wrote: On Mar 15, 9:45 am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. You need to add salt or they don't work. Don't you have kids? I have kids. And I also know how mistaken you are if you think only kids can use such devices. Adding salt to the water is not necessary and is specifically prohibited for warranty purpose of any such device we've ever had. The work fine without adding anything to the regular drinking water. Considering this thread was started by a troll and taken on by a buncho of egotists with nothing worthwhile to do, every single person so far has missed the actual reason WHY they work as they do. No one has mentioned the material used in the posts of these things, and althoug it was obliquely referenced, no one pointed out that current flow will depend on the distance between the two probes in the water and the surface area of the probes at first. Once the process gets started, it's self sustaining as long as any water is still touching both probes. Me, I'm done with this thread; my only reason for reading it was to see who the dummies might be. It's quicker than long lurks. NO they do not require salt, and Chalescraft, for one, distictly cautions AGAINST adding salt. Apparently there is a chlorine danger when NaCl is added to the water. |
110V and water
wrote in message ... On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:24:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Mar 15, 10:58 am, Pat wrote: On Mar 15, 9:45 am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. You need to add salt or they don't work. Don't you have kids?- Hide quoted text - You only need to add salt if the water is low in minerals. Most tap waters work fine. I've had various vaporizers of that type and never had to add salt. In the directions, they talk about adding a small amount of salt if it doesn't work without it. When the kids were little we used one. My wife HATES deposit build-up in kettles etc, so it was run on distilled water - and it worked. And there was still some scale buildup, wasn't there? It's the electro-chemical reactions. Now let's sit back and watch the egos take off on that. Better than salt is a bit of washing soda or Borax.(if you need to add anything) |
110V and water
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:26:30 -0400, "Twayne"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:24:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Mar 15, 10:58 am, Pat wrote: On Mar 15, 9:45 am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. You need to add salt or they don't work. Don't you have kids?- Hide quoted text - You only need to add salt if the water is low in minerals. Most tap waters work fine. I've had various vaporizers of that type and never had to add salt. In the directions, they talk about adding a small amount of salt if it doesn't work without it. When the kids were little we used one. My wife HATES deposit build-up in kettles etc, so it was run on distilled water - and it worked. And there was still some scale buildup, wasn't there? It's the electro-chemical reactions. Now let's sit back and watch the egos take off on that. Actually with the distilled water, deposits were ALMOST non-existant. Better than salt is a bit of washing soda or Borax.(if you need to add anything) |
110V and water
On Mar 18, 10:24*am, "Twayne" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Pat wrote: On Mar 15, 9:45 am, wrote: On Mar 15, 12:55 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Charles Bishop" wrote in message ... I was repairing some landscaping lighting, and when I took the cover off of the outdoor junction box, water came out. Don't know how much was in there, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I'm guessing it wasn't enough to reach the wiring connections, held together by wire nuts, or maybe it did. Because if it had, the breaker would have tripped, right? -- charles It may or may not trip the breaker. Water is not a very good conductor and small ammounts can just cause a small current flow. It may even heat up the water. Had a water heater that the element cracked and was causing the water to heat up way too much. That was casude by some of the current bypassing the thermostat and directly heating the water. Still did not trip the breaker. That's also how some of the vaporizers that they sell in the drug stores to use when you have a cold work. They heat the water by just using 2 electrodes near each other submerged in a plastic tank of water. ... of SALT water. *You need to add salt or they don't work. *Don't you have kids? I have kids. And I also know how mistaken you are if you think only kids can use such devices. Adding salt to the water is not necessary and is specifically prohibited for warranty purpose of any such device we've ever had. The work fine without adding anything to the regular drinking water. Considering this thread was started by a troll and taken on by a buncho of egotists with nothing worthwhile to do, every single person so far has missed the actual reason WHY they work as they do. *No one has mentioned the material used in the posts of these things, and althoug it was obliquely referenced, no one pointed out that current flow will depend on the distance between the two probes in the water and the surface area of the probes at first. *Once the process gets started, it's self sustaining as long as any water is still touching both probes. * *Me, I'm done with this thread; my only reason for reading it was to see who the dummies might be. *It's quicker than long lurks. I diidn't see any problem with the thread and no one else seems upset. Also, what makes you think that no one else here knows that the current flow will depend on the surface area of the probes. Oh, BTW genius, the current doesn't just depend on the surface area initially, it depends on the surface area all the time. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. |
110V and water
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110V and water
In article , "Twayne"
wrote: [snip] Considering this thread was started by a troll . . . [snip] cite? -- charles |
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