My 40 gallon low boy electric water heater may need maintenance. When I hook the
garden hose to it to wash the crud out, do I have to turn off the incoming
water, or do I just let it rip for a few minutes? The last time I did it, I
turned off the power and the water and let all of the tank water run out. It
seems to me that having the incoming water would serve to wash the crud out
instead of just letting it flow out.

Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:16:42 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

My 40 gallon low boy electric water heater may need maintenance. When I hook the
garden hose to it to wash the crud out, do I have to turn off the incoming
water, or do I just let it rip for a few minutes? The last time I did it, I
turned off the power and the water and let all of the tank water run out. It
seems to me that having the incoming water would serve to wash the crud out
instead of just letting it flow out.

What you may wish to do if you are going to go to those lengths of
cleaning out you water heater is:
1) Turn the electric off to the water heater and shut off the water
supply to the tank.
2)Drain the tank and remove the POS plastic drain valve
3) Install a full port 3/4" (1/4 turn) ball valve.
4) Hook up the garden hose for flushing
5) Leave the water on to the water heater (this gives max press to
remove the debris.)
6) Flush out any remaining debris.
7) Fill the tank back up, remove the drain hose, purge any air at the
faucets and turn the electric back on.

In the future you should only have to drain anywhere from 1 to 5
gallons of water or until the water runs clear and or no visible
debris remains.
Bubba

Pardon me for being anal, but to be sure, in Step 5, don't you mean to turn the
water back on since I turned it off in Step 1?

I did everything above (except replace the plastic drain valve, which I want to
do). I opened two hot water faucets in the house to give the tank air to drain.
After I closed the hot water faucets and then refilled the tank, I turn on the
hot water faucets again to get rid of the air. The water that came out was
nasty. If I fill the sink, it still has a yellow tint to it.

Now I'm wondering if I actually got the crap out of the tank. Does it sound like
I need to go through the process again? When I first turned the drain valve on,
the water coming out of it looked clean. In fact, the only nasty water I ever
saw was coming out of the faucet.

Regarding replacing the plastic drain faucet, how do I do that? It's barely
sticking out of the water heater. Should I be able to unscrew the whole
assembly? When I go to Lowe's or Home Depot to get the 1/4 turn valve, what are
the exact specifications? What size pipe, or however they're specified?

Thanks for your help!

mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:16:42 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

My 40 gallon low boy electric water heater may need maintenance. When
I hook the garden hose to it to wash the crud out, do I have to turn
off the incoming water, or do I just let it rip for a few minutes?
The last time I did it, I turned off the power and the water and let
all of the tank water run out. It seems to me that having the
incoming water would serve to wash the crud out instead of just
letting it flow out.

What you may wish to do if you are going to go to those lengths of
cleaning out you water heater is:
1) Turn the electric off to the water heater and shut off the water
supply to the tank.
2)Drain the tank and remove the POS plastic drain valve 3) Install a
full port 3/4" (1/4 turn) ball valve.
4) Hook up the garden hose for flushing
5) Leave the water on to the water heater (this gives max press to
remove the debris.)
6) Flush out any remaining debris.
7) Fill the tank back up, remove the drain hose, purge any air at the
faucets and turn the electric back on.
In the future you should only have to drain anywhere from 1 to 5
gallons of water or until the water runs clear and or no visible
debris remains.
Bubba

Pardon me for being anal, but to be sure, in Step 5, don't you mean to
turn the water back on since I turned it off in Step 1?

I did everything above (except replace the plastic drain valve, which I
want to do). I opened two hot water faucets in the house to give the
tank air to drain. After I closed the hot water faucets and then
refilled the tank, I turn on the hot water faucets again to get rid of
the air. The water that came out was nasty. If I fill the sink, it still
has a yellow tint to it.

Now I'm wondering if I actually got the crap out of the tank. Does it
sound like I need to go through the process again? When I first turned
the drain valve on, the water coming out of it looked clean. In fact,
the only nasty water I ever saw was coming out of the faucet.

hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.


Regarding replacing the plastic drain faucet, how do I do that? It's
barely sticking out of the water heater. Should I be able to unscrew the
whole assembly?

yes.

When I go to Lowe's or Home Depot to get the 1/4 turn
valve, what are the exact specifications? What size pipe, or however
they're specified?

3/4" pipe thread. You'll need a 3/4" dielectric nipple (should be right
with the water heater stuff, that's what's used on the inlet/outlet
pipes of a typical residential water heater,) a 3/4" pipe thread ball
valve, and a 3/4" male pipe thread to garden hose thread adapter
(typically found in the "loose brass fittings" area of the plumbing
department.) Get a brass garden hose fitting cap as well, leave that on
when you're not flushing. that way if you inadvertantly kick the valve
you won't soak your shoes (or anything else within three feet of the
water heater)

Since this is an electric water heater, you ought to be able to handle
replacing it yourself, if required. I'd go ahead and put the brass
drain valve on it as described above before you even fill it for the
first time. Then flush it every year and check the anode every couple.

good luck

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.

It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check the
anode?

3/4" pipe thread. You'll need a 3/4" dielectric nipple (should be right
with the water heater stuff, that's what's used on the inlet/outlet
pipes of a typical residential water heater,) a 3/4" pipe thread ball
valve, and a 3/4" male pipe thread to garden hose thread adapter
(typically found in the "loose brass fittings" area of the plumbing
department.) Get a brass garden hose fitting cap as well, leave that on
when you're not flushing. that way if you inadvertantly kick the valve
you won't soak your shoes (or anything else within three feet of the
water heater)

Thanks for your patience. This answer is excellent.

mcp6453 wrote:
My 40 gallon low boy electric water heater may need maintenance. When I
hook the garden hose to it to wash the crud out, do I have to turn off
the incoming water, or do I just let it rip for a few minutes? The last
time I did it, I turned off the power and the water and let all of the
tank water run out. It seems to me that having the incoming water would
serve to wash the crud out instead of just letting it flow out.

you'll get a better flush out if you turn the water off, open the drain
valve (your hose), then open the t&p valve to vent the tank. After the
tank is MT, THEN open your water supply a few seconds at a time to give
the bottom a blast. After you're through, then close the drain, the
T&P, and proceed with the refill before turning the heater back on.

s

Bubba wrote:

I'm sorry to say but if you didnt replace that cheap plastic drain
valve then you likely got nothing out of the water heater except
water. The clearance between that washer and its seat is very very
small. Thus the need for a full port valve.

Makes sense. I wonder how the manufacturers get away with that.

In regards to removing the plastic valve, most of the time they crack
off. Just grab it with channel locks at the base, rock it back and
forth a bit if you can to get it loose but most of the time they just
break. Dont worry. Its only plastic. It will come out.
The 1/4 turn valve (ball valve) is 3/4" IPT (iron pipe thread). It has
female threads at both ends. Install a short nipple (die-electric) in
the tank first, then the ball valve, then a 3/4 MPT (male pipe thread)
to hose adapter.

So are you saying that if it breaks off, I should still be able to get the rest
of the plastic pipe out of the threaded part of the water heater? Man, if I
break it off and can't get the right one in there, I'm out of hot water until I
get a new water heater or a plumber! Just looking for some reassurance here.

Is this what the replacement valve should look like?
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ima...pBallValve.jpg

I'm going over to Lowe's tomorrow to see if they have what I need. If I recall
correctly, I may be able to remove the lower heating element to see inside the
tank to see if there is crud.

Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check the
anode?

Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.

The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.

The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.

If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.

This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?

On 2/14/2009 5:22 PM mcp6453 spake thus:

There are cutoff valves and unions (correct name) to make
disconnecting the pipes easy.

Make that "shutoff valves", not cutoff.

Are there flex connections between the plumbing and the heater? That's
generally the easiest way to connect, and makes it even more "doesn't
require a plumber to replace".

If not, you can easily add them yourself.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?

Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.

The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.

The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.

If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.

This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?

Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube, then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip tube out.
and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.

s

On Feb 14, 9:06�pm, Steve Barker wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? �that's not good. �If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. �If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?

Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.

The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.

The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.

If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.

This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?

Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube, then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip tube out.
� and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.

s- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!

Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak.

Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.

wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06�pm, Steve Barker wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? �that's not good. �If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. �If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube, then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip tube out.
� and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.

s- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!

Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak.

Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.


I agree in general, but in cases where there's financial considerations
in play, one can occasionally get lucky. I've done everything mentioned
in this thread save for the dip tube on an 18-year old gas water heater
just because new ones are so ludicrously expensive (and being a new home
moaner, a lot of disposable cash went away just to buy the place.) Took
Excessive Force(tm) to undo all the threaded connections, but a little
pipe dope on the threads was all that was required to put it back
together. Now have clean hot water for my morning shower. Yay.

Since the OP is talking about an electric, yeah, I can see the case for
replacement. Electrics at least around here are about half the price of
gas and are a DIY job for an able handyman.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:22:26 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check the
anode?

Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.

The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.

If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.

This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?

Certainly but just for more realistic info, most people don't
generally replace a dip tube or anode rod during the life of a water
heater.
Flushing the bottom once in a while is probably the best thing you can
do for it.
Then of course we could get into the aspects of why an expansion tank
is a good idea to install on a water heater and required in a lot of
city codes (like mine).
Then a pressure reducing valve on the home to bring any unneeded high
city water pressure down to a more "friendly" 55 to 75 psi. Lower
pressures use less water and extend the life of tanks, hoses and
faucet cartridges.
Bubba

I thought that the expansion tank was only required *if* you had a BFP
installed... (of course, my understanding is that most PRVs are also
BFPs...) I have neither and have not noticed problems, although my
pressure does run a little high. Makes for an awesome shower, even all
the way up on the second floor...

Now I do have lots of water hammer, despite the original plumber putting
in air traps at most (all?) points of use (just capped pieces of pipe.)
Do the new sealed cartridge things really work better than the old
school way? If so, I might have to start using those whenever I rework
a connection.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Feb 15, 9:21�am, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:22:26 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

hmmm... might be rust? �that's not good. �If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. �If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check the
anode?

Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.

The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.

The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.

If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.

This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?

Certainly but just for more realistic info, most people don't
generally replace a dip tube or anode rod during the life of a water
heater.
Flushing the bottom once in a while is probably the best thing you can
do for it.
Then of course we could get into the aspects of why an expansion tank
is a good idea to install on a water heater and required in a lot of
city codes (like mine).
Then a pressure reducing valve on the home to bring any unneeded high
city water pressure down to a more "friendly" 55 to 75 psi. Lower
pressures use less water and extend the life of tanks, hoses and
faucet cartridges.
Bubba
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

please explain how lower pressures use less water??

On Feb 15, 9:39�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water..
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000..
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy..
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube, then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip tube out.

mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:

I'm sorry to say but if you didnt replace that cheap plastic drain
valve then you likely got nothing out of the water heater except
water. The clearance between that washer and its seat is very very
small. Thus the need for a full port valve.

Makes sense. I wonder how the manufacturers get away with that.

Most people use the valve exactly once, to drain the tank when they
replace it. Sadly the concept of "maintenance" just does not occur to
most people. Thus very few complaints about the lack of a sturdy valve...


In regards to removing the plastic valve, most of the time they crack
off. Just grab it with channel locks at the base, rock it back and
forth a bit if you can to get it loose but most of the time they just
break. Dont worry. Its only plastic. It will come out.
The 1/4 turn valve (ball valve) is 3/4" IPT (iron pipe thread). It has
female threads at both ends. Install a short nipple (die-electric) in
the tank first, then the ball valve, then a 3/4 MPT (male pipe thread)
to hose adapter.

So are you saying that if it breaks off, I should still be able to get
the rest of the plastic pipe out of the threaded part of the water
heater? Man, if I break it off and can't get the right one in there, I'm
out of hot water until I get a new water heater or a plumber! Just
looking for some reassurance here.

Is this what the replacement valve should look like?
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ima...pBallValve.jpg

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pag...Flush-Kit.html

This is exactly what your valve should look like when it is assembled.
On my (gas) water heater I needed to add a coupling and a short brass
nipple between the dielectric nipple and the ball valve to clear the gas
valve/burner assembly, but you said you have an electric, so that should
be all you need. While you're shopping pick up some teflon tape or pipe
dope if you don't have any laying around.


I'm going over to Lowe's tomorrow to see if they have what I need. If I
recall correctly, I may be able to remove the lower heating element to
see inside the tank to see if there is crud.

Probably not necessary, but can't hurt. If it seals with an O-ring or
gasket you may wish to pick up a replacement.

If you are going to Lowe's and don't have a good flashlight, their 3W
2-C cell LED "Task Force" flashlight is excellent, compact, and cheap, I
have two. (I mention this because Lowe's is not at all convenient to
me, and I went out of my way to get those flashlights. A good
flashlight is key if you expect to see anything inside the tank. You
still may not see anything...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes easy.
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube, then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip tube out.
and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.
s- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!
Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak.
Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.
I agree in general, but in cases where there's financial considerations
in play, one can occasionally get lucky. �I've done everything mentioned
in this thread save for the dip tube on an 18-year old gas water heater
just because new ones are so ludicrously expensive (and being a new home
moaner, a lot of disposable cash went away just to buy the place.) �Took
Excessive Force(tm) to undo all the threaded connections, but a little
pipe dope on the threads was all that was required to put it back
together. �Now have clean hot water for my morning shower. �Yay.

Since the OP is talking about an electric, yeah, I can see the case for
replacement. �Electrics at least around here are about half the price of
gas and are a DIY job for an able handyman.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

with a brand new 40 gallon 6 year warranty gas tank under 400 bucks
wheres the savings?

by the time you buy all the supplies, perhaps some tools and mess
with it spending a 100 bucks is easy

Sure, except I'd rather spend $100 than $700 (which is the going price
for a gas heater around here - I would need a "short" tank which seems
to be even more expensive) plus installation.


a leak may not occur immediately but disturbing things makes it more
likely in the next 6 months.

a tank dumping rust means the glass lining has failed, the rust is
likely clogging small leaks..........

disturb rust get leak soon

Again, "sometimes ya get lucky." I'm not saying that this can't happen,
but if I can put off a $1K plus expense for a couple years for $100,
I'll do it again.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I'm going over to Lowe's tomorrow to see if they have what I need. If I recall
correctly, I may be able to remove the lower heating element to see inside the
tank to see if there is crud.

I removed the bottom element on mine and with a small light to look
inside I could see there was considerable amount of crud. I had a
small wet/dry vac with about a 1 1/5 inch vac hose and sucked the crud
out. After I got the majority of the crud with the vacuum, the rest
flushed easily out with water.
Steve

On Feb 15, 10:38*am, Steve wrote:
I'm going over to Lowe's tomorrow to see if they have what I need. If I recall
correctly, I may be able to remove the lower heating element to see inside the
tank to see if there is crud.

I removed the bottom element on mine and with a small light to look
inside I could see there was considerable amount of crud. *I had a
small wet/dry vac with about a 1 1/5 inch vac hose and sucked the crud
out. *After I got the majority of the crud with the vacuum, the rest
flushed easily out with water.
Steve

That is.... about a 1 1/5 inch diameter vacuum hose. It was long
enough to be able to get around the inside bottom of the tank.

The old element was bad so I just replaced with a new element and it
was good for a long time.

Steve

Im sorry to say but if you didnt replace that cheap plastic drain
valve then you likely got nothing out of the water heater except
water.

These things are truly shamefully cheap and useless. The smallest bit
of sediment / debris will clog it, and it's the debris you need to get
rid of.

Install a short nipple (die-electric)

I'm wondering why you recommend a dielectric at this point. Must be a
good reason, but there's no downstream connection to anything, so what
purpose would the thermoplastic lining serve? What complications would
a regular galvanized nipple introduce? (For example, the one I
installed in mine about three years ago?)
in
the tank first, then the ball valve, then a 3/4 MPT (male pipe thread)
to hose adapter.
Bubba

On Feb 15, 10:00�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode. If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it. Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in 2000.

Nate Nagel wrote:
I'm guessing a shower is where the higher pressure would really show up.
However I find that a shower feels best to me with a "low flow" shower
head but higher pressure than it does with a regular head and low
pressure (as in a motel)

nate


it feels best to me with high pressure AND a regular head. If i want
lo-flo, i'll turn it down. thank you very much. **** on a bunch of
lo-flow **** devices.

s

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
please explain how lower pressures use less water??

Think water fountain.


bad analogy. the water fountains that have a ****y flow, you just have
to stand there and drink longer. no water savings. actually probably
more waste 'cause 100% of the flow does not go in your mouth. So the
longer it takes, the more down the drain.

s

Ashton Crusher wrote:

I think
since I turned the temp down I've had a lot less build up.

AND a lot less hot water.......

Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:05:13 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:

I think
since I turned the temp down I've had a lot less build up.
AND a lot less hot water.......

Me thinks someone likes long hot powerful showers regardless of the
cost. :-)
Me, I used to. Then 4 women, 1 at a time showed up. Between them, the
dishwasher and the washing machine, I just gave up. Turned down the
water pressure, set the water heater at 120 and installed low flow
shower heads. Still have to keep an eye on it. No one seems to
understand why you cant take a shower, then start the dishwasher and
washing machine at the same time while the next person hops in the
shower. It was either deal with it my way or install a 100 gal water
heater or an instantaneous heater.
Bubba

This is why I like my gas water heater - I can do all that stuff
sequentially and it still comes out scalding hot. Only if I try to run
two appliances simultaneously and/or do laundry or run the diswasher
while taking a shower does the water temp. drop off. No electrics for
me, thanks.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Feb 15, 5:32�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:05:13 -0600, Steve Barker

wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:

�I think
since I turned the temp down I've had a lot less build up.

AND a lot less hot water.......

Me thinks someone likes long hot powerful showers regardless of the
cost. :-)
Me, I used to. Then 4 women, 1 at a time showed up. Between them, the
dishwasher and the washing machine, I just gave up. Turned down the
water pressure, set the water heater at 120 and installed low flow
shower heads. Still have to keep an eye on it. No one seems to
understand why you cant take a shower, then start the dishwasher and
washing machine at the same time while the next person hops in the
shower. It was either deal with it my way or install a 100 gal water
heater or an instantaneous heater.
Bubba

most gas water heaters are a wimpy 30,000 BTU or even less.

my tank is 75,000 BTUs 50- gallons with shower head flow restrictor
removed.

provides basically unlimited hot water

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
mcp6453 wrote:

Why would I want a curved dip tube? To be able to get it into the tank
with a low clearance?

The curve exists at the bottom of the tube to create a whirlpool effect
when the water enters the tank. The theory is that the movement of water
will stir up any crud, leep it suspended in the water and eventually get
drawn out of the tank.

I've never seen any controlled evidence that this does any good or even
works, but it doesn't do any harm and it makes for nice marketing.


Personally, *any* water inlet will cut thru crud in a particular path.
Straight down and there is a crater with the crud at the periphery, a bent
tube you get a channel. I could be all wet but unless there's a spray at
the top and even that will have some sort of regular pattern at the bottom.

On Feb 15, 9:16*am, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:57:41 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:

I'm sorry to say but if you didnt replace that cheap plastic drain
valve then you likely got nothing out of the water heater except
water. The clearance between that washer and its seat is very very
small. Thus the need for a full port valve.

Makes sense. I wonder how the manufacturers get away with that.

In regards to removing the plastic valve, most of the time they crack
off. Just grab it with channel locks at *the base, rock it back and
forth a bit if you can to get it loose but most of the time they just
break. Dont worry. Its only plastic. It will come out.
The 1/4 turn valve (ball valve) is 3/4" IPT (iron pipe thread). It has
female threads at both ends. Install a short nipple (die-electric) in
the tank first, then the ball valve, then a 3/4 MPT (male pipe thread)
to hose adapter.

So are you saying that if it breaks off, I should still be able to get the rest
of the plastic pipe out of the threaded part of the water heater? Man, if I
break it off and can't get the right one in there, I'm out of hot water until I
get a new water heater or a plumber! Just looking for some reassurance here.

Yes, its only plastic. A screwdriver or whatever and a little picking
at it and you will get it out. They are usually brittle since they
have been exposed to heat for a long time.

Is this what the replacement valve should look like?
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ima...pBallValve.jpg

Yes, that's pretty much the valve Im talking about.

I'm going over to Lowe's tomorrow to see if they have what I need. If I recall
correctly, I may be able to remove the lower heating element to see inside the
tank to see if there is crud.

Make sure you have a new o-ring or gasket or whatever that particular
element uses to reseal it.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I replace the drain valves on install of a new water heater, The
plastic ones may last the life of the water heater if you never use
the valve but if you flush it regularly if will only last a few years,
Its a heck of a lot eadier to replace it on a new heater while the
tank is empty than after its full of water and the plastic is old and
brittle. This also gives you a chance to install the valve at a handy
place, mine is at about knee level. You are more likely to do that
annual flush if its easy to do.

Jimmie

Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:05:13 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:

I think
since I turned the temp down I've had a lot less build up.
AND a lot less hot water.......

Me thinks someone likes long hot powerful showers regardless of the
cost. :-)
Me, I used to. Then 4 women, 1 at a time showed up. Between them, the
dishwasher and the washing machine, I just gave up. Turned down the
water pressure, set the water heater at 120 and installed low flow
shower heads. Still have to keep an eye on it. No one seems to
understand why you cant take a shower, then start the dishwasher and
washing machine at the same time while the next person hops in the
shower. It was either deal with it my way or install a 100 gal water
heater or an instantaneous heater.
Bubba
well as far as our particular household is concerned, the wash is during
the day, the dishwash after supper, and the showers in the am. don't
see the conflict at all. We do just fine on a 50 gal with 2 kids and
now that it's just the two of us, a 40 does just fine. It IS however
still set on about 150 degrees where it needs to be for proper
dishwashing and conservation.

s

wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:32�pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:05:13 -0600, Steve Barker

wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:
�I think
since I turned the temp down I've had a lot less build up.
AND a lot less hot water.......
Me thinks someone likes long hot powerful showers regardless of the
cost. :-)
Me, I used to. Then 4 women, 1 at a time showed up. Between them, the
dishwasher and the washing machine, I just gave up. Turned down the
water pressure, set the water heater at 120 and installed low flow
shower heads. Still have to keep an eye on it. No one seems to
understand why you cant take a shower, then start the dishwasher and
washing machine at the same time while the next person hops in the
shower. It was either deal with it my way or install a 100 gal water
heater or an instantaneous heater.
Bubba

most gas water heaters are a wimpy 30,000 BTU or even less.

my tank is 75,000 BTUs 50- gallons with shower head flow restrictor
removed.

provides basically unlimited hot water

75,000 in a water heater!?!!??? ya, oooooookay... LMAO!!

s

Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 10:00�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453
wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away
I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode.
If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I
check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it
sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the
water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the
tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search
function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it.
Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace
a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the
unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There
are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the
reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water
outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in
2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new
one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that
replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are
cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes
easy.
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at
least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium
anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube,
then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip
tube out.
and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.
s- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!
Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing
anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak.
Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.
I agree in general, but in cases where there's financial
considerations
in play, one can occasionally get lucky. I've done everything
mentioned
in this thread save for the dip tube on an 18-year old gas water
heater
just because new ones are so ludicrously expensive (and being a new
home
moaner, a lot of disposable cash went away just to buy the place.)
Took
Excessive Force(tm) to undo all the threaded connections, but a little
pipe dope on the threads was all that was required to put it back
together. Now have clean hot water for my morning shower. Yay.
Since the OP is talking about an electric, yeah, I can see the case
for
replacement. Electrics at least around here are about half the
price of
gas and are a DIY job for an able handyman.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
with a brand new 40 gallon 6 year warranty gas tank under 400 bucks
wheres the savings?
by the time you buy all the supplies, perhaps some tools �and mess
with it spending a 100 bucks is easy
Sure, except I'd rather spend $100 than $700 (which is the going price
for a gas heater around here - I would need a "short" tank which seems
to be even more expensive) plus installation.



a leak may not occur immediately but disturbing things makes it more
likely in the next 6 months.
a tank dumping rust means the glass lining has failed, the rust is
likely clogging small leaks..........
disturb rust get leak soon
Again, "sometimes ya get lucky." �I'm not saying that this can't happen,
but if I can put off a $1K plus expense for a couple years for $100,
I'll do it again.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if your skillful enough to replace anode, dip tube, and drain valve
replacing the tank should be easy.

home depot sells 40 gallon short tans for $362 bucks

new tanks are much more energy efficent so you might not be saving as
much as you think

I think they mark 'em up around here (metro DC area I've looked out of
curiosity and they are significantly more expensive than that unless
prices have dropped recently. I am actually a few minutes away from
running over there to pick up a replacement cord for my right angle
drill, so I'll have a chance to check.

Plus I think I would have it professionally installed because I'd want
the guy to replace all my gas valves in the area (furnace, dryer, and
WH) at the same time because none of them will operate without
channellocks. If I did it myself then I'd have to run the old one to
the dump, too... not a royal PITA but more time and money.

I likely would shop for the highest efficiency and a non-combo style
anode rather than price anyway...

nate


OK, so I looked at HD... the 6 year tank was actually $388ish, but they
didn't have any. 9 year was $488. don't recall what the 12 year was
but it was more expensive yet, obviously... I think it was close to
$600. Also 53" tall, which IIRC is pushing it for my install (entrance
to chimney is kind of low. Don't remember the exact height, nor do I
feel motivated to go check.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Steve Barker wrote:
well as far as our particular household is concerned, the wash is
during the day, the dishwash after supper, and the showers in the am.
don't see the conflict at all. We do just fine on a 50 gal with 2
kids and now that it's just the two of us, a 40 does just fine. It
IS however still set on about 150 degrees where it needs to be for
proper dishwashing and conservation.


For dishwashing, the difference between 72° and 150° is nil.

150° is not hot enough to kill bacteria and 72° will be heated to the proper
temperature by the dishwasher anyway.

HeyBub wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
well as far as our particular household is concerned, the wash is
during the day, the dishwash after supper, and the showers in the am.
don't see the conflict at all. We do just fine on a 50 gal with 2
kids and now that it's just the two of us, a 40 does just fine. It
IS however still set on about 150 degrees where it needs to be for
proper dishwashing and conservation.


For dishwashing, the difference between 72° and 150° is nil.

150° is not hot enough to kill bacteria and 72° will be heated to the proper
temperature by the dishwasher anyway.


not all dishwashers do that and even if they do only if you put them on
the 'sanitize' setting.

Bubba wrote:
So Steve,
I guess you dont get out much?
You obviously havent seen this newer model
http://www.ho****er.com/lit/spec/res_gas/ARGSS01306.pdf
or this older model
http://www.ho****er.com/lit/spec/res_gas/AOSRG45400.pdf
50 gal 65,000btu
I think im now LMAO!
Bubba

that's just a waste. Mine is 40,000 and keeps up just fine.

"C & E" wrote:

Personally, *any* water inlet will cut thru crud in a particular path.
Straight down and there is a crater with the crud at the periphery, a bent
tube you get a channel. I could be all wet but unless there's a spray at
the top and even that will have some sort of regular pattern at the bottom.

Yep, it's more marketing than anything else... There won't ever be a spray at
the top of the tank - that's where the hot water is drawn from and the whole
reason for the dip tube. Better to just draw off the water from the flush valve
every 6-12 months.

most �gas water heaters are a wimpy 30,000 BTU or even less.

my tank is 75,000 BTUs 50- gallons with shower head flow restrictor
removed.

provides basically unlimited hot water

75,000 in a water heater!?!!??? �ya, oooooookay... � LMAO!!

it does a wonderful job espically in the winter when incoming water is
ice cold.

with 2 washing machines, dishwasher, shower etc its nice to always
have enough water.

i tend to get a shower then take laundry to basement and in washer.

by the time i finish showering dry off and get dressed the water
heaters burner is just turning off.

On Feb 15, 9:28�pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 10:00 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453
wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away
I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode.
If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I
check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it
sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the
water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the
tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search
function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it.
Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace
a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the
unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There
are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the
reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water
outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in
2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new
one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that
replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are
cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes
easy.
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at
least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium
anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube,
then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip
tube out.
and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.
s- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!
Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing
anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak.
Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.
I agree in general, but in cases where there's financial
considerations
in play, one can occasionally get lucky. I've done everything
mentioned
in this thread save for the dip tube on an 18-year old gas water
heater
just because new ones are so ludicrously expensive (and being a new
home
moaner, a lot of disposable cash went away just to buy the place.)
Took
Excessive Force(tm) to undo all the threaded connections, but a little
pipe dope on the threads was all that was required to put it back
together. Now have clean hot water for my morning shower. Yay.
Since the OP is talking about an electric, yeah, I can see the case
for
replacement. Electrics at least around here are about half the
price of
gas and are a DIY job for an able handyman.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -
with a brand new 40 gallon 6 year warranty gas tank under 400 bucks
wheres the savings?
by the time you buy all the supplies, perhaps some tools and mess
with it spending a 100 bucks is easy
Sure, except I'd rather spend $100 than $700 (which is the going price
for a gas heater around here - I would need a "short" tank which seems
to be even more expensive) plus installation.

a leak may not occur immediately but disturbing things makes it more
likely in the next 6 months.
a tank dumping rust means the glass lining has failed, the rust is
likely clogging small leaks..........
disturb rust get leak soon
Again, "sometimes ya get lucky." I'm not saying that this can't happen,
but if I can put off a $1K plus expense for a couple years for $100,
I'll do it again.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if your skillful enough to replace anode, dip tube, and drain valve
replacing the tank should be easy.

home depot sells 40 gallon short tans for $362 bucks

new tanks are much more energy efficent so you might not be saving as
much as you think

I think they mark 'em up around here (metro DC area I've looked out of
curiosity and they are significantly more expensive than that unless
prices have dropped recently. �I am actually a few minutes away from
running over there to pick up a replacement cord for my right angle
drill, so I'll have a chance to check.

Plus I think I would have it professionally installed because I'd want
the guy to replace all my gas valves in the area (furnace, dryer, and
WH) at the same time because none of them will operate without
channellocks. �If I did it myself then I'd have to run the old one to
the dump, too... not a royal PITA but more time and money.

I likely would shop for the highest efficiency and a non-combo style
anode rather than price anyway...

nate

OK, so I looked at HD... the 6 year tank was actually $388ish, but they
didn't have any. �9 year was $488. �don't recall what the 12 year was
but it was more expensive yet, obviously... �I think it was close to
$600. �Also 53" tall, which IIRC is pushing it for my install (entrance
to chimney is kind of low. �Don't remember the exact height, nor do I
feel motivated to go check.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

home depot can order the tank you want, if you have the time.

easy to do when you plan replacement

versus emergency tanks leaking on christmas eve with house guests
coming

the improved efficency over your old tank might pay for itself within
a few years

wrote in message

with 2 washing machines, dishwasher, shower etc its nice to always
have enough water.

********************************************

We use cold water wash for most things and it works very well with the new
detergents. Whites still get hot though.

wrote:
most �gas water heaters are a wimpy 30,000 BTU or even less.
my tank is 75,000 BTUs 50- gallons with shower head flow restrictor
removed.
provides basically unlimited hot water
75,000 in a water heater!?!!??? �ya, oooooookay... � LMAO!!

it does a wonderful job espically in the winter when incoming water is
ice cold.

with 2 washing machines, dishwasher, shower etc its nice to always
have enough water.

i tend to get a shower then take laundry to basement and in washer.

by the time i finish showering dry off and get dressed the water
heaters burner is just turning off.

that all sounds great, but washing clothes rarely requires hot water.
Only on some whites.

s

On Feb 15, 11:20*pm, " wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:28 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:





Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 10:00 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:06 pm, Steve Barker
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:03:24 -0500, mcp6453
wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
hmmm... might be rust? that's not good. If it doesn't go away
I'd
recommend draining it again and having a look at the anode.
If it's
completely gone, just get a new heater.
It didn't look like rust, but I'll keep an eye on it. How do I
check
the anode?
Its most likely just stuff you stirred up in the tank. Let it
sit an
hour or so and it will all settle to the bottom again.
The anode rode gets checked visually. Drain part or all of the
water.
Remove the relief valve if its in the side and look inside the
tank.
The rod looks like a smooth round 3/4" diameter rod new. It will
probably look eaten away if its been in a few year. Unscrew it and
install a new one if it is. Maybe $30 give or take a few.
The water heater is a State Industries P64020LS. The search
function on
their web site is broken, so I cannot find a manual for it.
Based on
what I just saw on the water heater, there is no way to replace
a dip
tube or an anode. There is about a foot clearance between the
unit and
the floor, since the water heater is in the crawl space. There
are two
plugs in the top, which are for blowing in the insulation. The only
ports are the hot and cold water connections. Based on the
reading I've
done, the anode is a combo anode that is part of the hot water
outlet
assembly.
If the information I found is correct, the unit was installed in
2000.
If that's true, it's probably time to start thinking about a new
one,
isn't it? The guy who installed it did so in a way that
replacing it
should not require a plumber. It's piped with copper. There are
cutoff
valves and unions (correct name) to make disconnecting the pipes
easy.
This thread has been extremely helpful in learning more about water
heaters. If I do get a new one (which I'm not going to do without a
little more research into the true condition of this one), at
least I
will know to look for replaceable dip tubes and magnesium
anodes. Right?
Since you'd have to disconnect the in and out to do the dip tube,
then
it shouldn't be a problem to tip it over enough to get the dip
tube out.
and the anode shouldn't be all that long either.
s- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do be prepared to replace the tank if you mess with it!
Removing valves, drain valve will likewly break off, repolacing
anodes
and dip tubes, disturbingf the rust which may be plugging a leak..
Your far better off to leave it alone till it breaks/leaks and then
install new tank which will have better insulation.
I agree in general, but in cases where there's financial
considerations
in play, one can occasionally get lucky. I've done everything
mentioned
in this thread save for the dip tube on an 18-year old gas water
heater
just because new ones are so ludicrously expensive (and being a new
home
moaner, a lot of disposable cash went away just to buy the place.)
Took
Excessive Force(tm) to undo all the threaded connections, but a little
pipe dope on the threads was all that was required to put it back
together. Now have clean hot water for my morning shower. Yay.
Since the OP is talking about an electric, yeah, I can see the case
for
replacement. Electrics at least around here are about half the
price of
gas and are a DIY job for an able handyman.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -
with a brand new 40 gallon 6 year warranty gas tank under 400 bucks
wheres the savings?
by the time you buy all the supplies, perhaps some tools and mess
with it spending a 100 bucks is easy
Sure, except I'd rather spend $100 than $700 (which is the going price
for a gas heater around here - I would need a "short" tank which seems
to be even more expensive) plus installation.

a leak may not occur immediately but disturbing things makes it more
likely in the next 6 months.
a tank dumping rust means the glass lining has failed, the rust is
likely clogging small leaks..........
disturb rust get leak soon
Again, "sometimes ya get lucky." I'm not saying that this can't happen,
but if I can put off a $1K plus expense for a couple years for $100,
I'll do it again.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to
reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if your skillful enough to replace anode, dip tube, and drain valve
replacing the tank should be easy.

home depot sells 40 gallon short tans for $362 bucks

new tanks are much more energy efficent so you might not be saving as
much as you think

I think they mark 'em up around here (metro DC area I've looked out of
curiosity and they are significantly more expensive than that unless
prices have dropped recently. I am actually a few minutes away from
running over there to pick up a replacement cord for my right angle
drill, so I'll have a chance to check.

Plus I think I would have it professionally installed because I'd want
the guy to replace all my gas valves in the area (furnace, dryer, and
WH) at the same time because none of them will operate without
channellocks. If I did it myself then I'd have to run the old one to
the dump, too... not a royal PITA but more time and money.

I likely would shop for the highest efficiency and a non-combo style
anode rather than price anyway...

nate

OK, so I looked at HD... the 6 year tank was actually $388ish, but they
didn't have any. 9 year was $488. don't recall what the 12 year was
but it was more expensive yet, obviously... I think it was close to
$600. Also 53" tall, which IIRC is pushing it for my install (entrance
to chimney is kind of low. Don't remember the exact height, nor do I
feel motivated to go check.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

home depot can order the tank you want, if you have the time.

easy to do when you plan replacement

versus emergency tanks leaking on christmas eve with house guests
coming

the improved efficency over your old tank might pay for itself within
a few years

I keep hearing this, but the ones I see in stores only have a 50-
something energy factor...

You're also discounting the small amount of joy that comes with being
truly cheap and keeping something running well far past its "best
before" date...

nate

On Feb 16, 12:07�am, Steve Barker
wrote:
wrote:
most gas water heaters are a wimpy 30,000 BTU or even less.
my tank is 75,000 BTUs 50- gallons with shower head flow restrictor
removed.
provides basically unlimited hot water
75,000 in a water heater!?!!??? ya, oooooookay... LMAO!!

it does a wonderful job espically in the winter when incoming water is
ice cold.

with 2 washing machines, dishwasher, shower etc its nice to always
have enough water.

i tend to get a shower then take laundry to basement and in washer.

by the time i finish showering dry off and get dressed the water
heaters burner is just turning off.

that all sounds great, but washing clothes rarely requires hot water.
Only on some whites.

s- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I use warm or hot, I repair machines for a living. oil etc on clothes.

cold water in winter here around 40 degrees, way too cold to do
laundry the soap doesnt dissolve