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Running Electrical wire in shed
I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI
circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 6:54*am, RedDwarf wrote:
I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... I would do it right. you will quite likely decide later to cover the bare studs with something. Drilling those holes is not a major undertaking. Get a spade bit - 5/8" will pass one romex conductor easily and time to drill each hole is way less than a minute. Put the holes in the _middle_ of the stud. Harry K |
Running Electrical wire in shed
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Running Electrical wire in shed
"Harry K" wrote in message ... On Jan 20, 6:54 am, RedDwarf wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... I would do it right. you will quite likely decide later to cover the bare studs with something. Drilling those holes is not a major undertaking. Get a spade bit - 5/8" will pass one romex conductor easily and time to drill each hole is way less than a minute. Put the holes in the _middle_ of the stud. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, a 1/2" hole is plenty of room for today's plastic coated Romex. Also, he mentions a work bench, if this is a workshop what is the problem with drilling holes? He should have the equipment, ability and the drive to drill a few holes to do the job right instead of trying to be lazy and skimp on installing his wiring. |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 11:25*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:54:05 -0800 (PST), RedDwarf wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... You dont need to drill if you are leaving the rafters exposed. *Just staple it to the bottom of the rafters. *If you're going from joist to joist (across the joists), code requires solid wood under the wire, so just nail a 1x4 under the rafters and staple it to that, which might be a good place to put lights too. LM I built a shed in a far more moderate climate than VA, and after a couple of years of suffering I put in insulation and drywall. OP might consider whether the shed will be comfortable enough to use more than a month or two out of the year. DIRTFT. thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. I may do a combination of both running it across the rafters and going through some of the stud walls. Thanks again! |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 10:35*am, RedDwarf wrote:
.... thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. I may do a combination of both running it across the rafters and going through some of the stud walls. Thanks again! I concur w/ the others -- do a neat job, correctly. What are you using for bits and what kind of studs? No way in a typical stud should that be a problem and even if you do dull a spade bit all it takes is about 30 seconds on each side at the grinder to make it better than new--certainly don't need a new one. For such work I prefer a self-feeding augur instead, anyway, though... -- |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-20, RedDwarf wrote:
I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? Well, if you are using Romex, you have to cover it with a 15 minute fire barrier such as drywall. [See NEC 334.10(3)] That will be a lot easier if you drill the studs. :-) Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 8:35*am, RedDwarf wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:25*am, Smitty Two wrote: In article , wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:54:05 -0800 (PST), RedDwarf wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... You dont need to drill if you are leaving the rafters exposed. *Just staple it to the bottom of the rafters. *If you're going from joist to joist (across the joists), code requires solid wood under the wire, so just nail a 1x4 under the rafters and staple it to that, which might be a good place to put lights too. LM I built a shed in a far more moderate climate than VA, and after a couple of years of suffering I put in insulation and drywall. OP might consider whether the shed will be comfortable enough to use more than a month or two out of the year. DIRTFT. thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. I may do a combination of both running it across the rafters and going through some of the stud walls. Thanks again! i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. I'm surprised that you're only getting 2 or 3 holes per bit............ maybe you need to apply a little more tool pressure and use slightly slower drill speed. A 5/8" hole will work also & require a bit less effort to drill. imo you should be able to do the entire shed with one or two bits at most. cheers Bob |
Running Electrical wire in shed
"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message Well, if you are using Romex, you have to cover it with a 15 minute fire barrier such as drywall. [See NEC 334.10(3)] That will be a lot easier if you drill the studs. :-) Cheers, Wayne That would be code for living space, but I doubt it is needed for a shed. Do you have some other information on that? |
Running Electrical wire in shed
In article , RedDwarf wrote:
thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. First off, if this is "getting expensive", that's your own fault. Spade bits can be *easily* resharpened in seconds on a grinder, or in a minute or two with a file. There's no need to throw them away just because they're dull. Second, if you're dulling them that fast -- your drill is set in reverse. Flip the switch so it spins the other way, and it'll work a LOT better. |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 12:50*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , RedDwarf wrote: thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. First off, if this is "getting expensive", that's your own fault. Spade bits can be *easily* resharpened in seconds on a grinder, or in a minute or two with a file. There's no need to throw them away just because they're dull.. Second, if you're dulling them that fast -- your drill is set in reverse. Flip the switch so it spins the other way, and it'll work a LOT better. Well assuming spade bits drive like every other drill bit - then it's set correctly. I don't think you can build a shed from the ground up not knowing which way a bit spins. The problem is that the to prongs/ spades keep breaking off as I begin to get through the 2x4. I may try sharpening the point itself and see how that goes. |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 1:28*pm, RedDwarf wrote:
.... ... The problem is that the to prongs/ spades keep breaking off as I begin to get through the 2x4. ... Where are you getting these pos bits--the 49 cent bin at Big Lots? I can't fathom how you could actually manage to break a decent-quality spade bit -- I've ones that are probably approaching 30 yrs old that have been used in oak railroad ties repeatedly that are as good as new when touched up a little. What are you drilling (that is, what is the material of the studs)? Typical new construction lumber is so soft as to cut (more like tear 'cause it's often still wet) w/ almost no effort. -- |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:54:05 -0800 (PST), RedDwarf
wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... You can use surface-mount conduit. The (Romex) wire should be protected from critters and anything else that could cause damage. Ideally, you drill one hole large enough to take 3-4 wires. |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:49:58 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote: On Jan 20, 6:54*am, RedDwarf wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... I would do it right. you will quite likely decide later to cover the bare studs with something. Drilling those holes is not a major undertaking. Get a spade bit - 5/8" will pass one romex conductor easily and time to drill each hole is way less than a minute. Put the holes in the _middle_ of the stud. Harry K I hacksawed off part of a spade bit shank to allow my drill to fit between the studs. Since then I bought a 90-Degree drill attachment. |
Running Electrical wire in shed
In article , RedDwarf wrote:
The problem is that the to prongs/ spades keep breaking off as I begin to get through the 2x4. In that case... the bits you're buying are garbage. Wherever you're going to buy them, don't go back. Again, if this is getting expensive, that's your own fault. That's what happens when you buy the cheapest crap you can find: you have to keep replacing it. The lowest price is usually *not* the best value. Pony up the extra bucks *once* and get a decent set of bits. I'm still using a set of spade bits that I bought _at least_ 25 years ago, and have used for literally thousands of holes. I've had to replace exactly one of them during that time, and that was because I lost it. Try *any* of the following: Craftsman Irwin Vermont American Ace Hardware's house brand |
Running Electrical wire in shed
It's your shed. Put the wire where YOU want it.
-- All you scholars who think bush messed up..... You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just wait. You'll be cryin' for mercy after a while with Bro Bama "RedDwarf" wrote in message ... I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-20, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
That would be code for living space, but I doubt it is needed for a shed. Do you have some other information on that? Actually it is the other way around, in a dwelling there is no overall requirement to cover romex, you only need to cover it as required to protect it from damage, etc. Section 334.10 of the 2008 NEC reads in part: 334.10 Uses Permitted. Type NM, Type NMC, and Type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following: (1) One- and two-family dwellings. (2) Multifamily dwellings permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12. (3) Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of firerated assemblies. So unless you are in a dwelling, it needs to be fully covered by a 15-minute finish. While many inspectors would give you a pass on an accessory building to a dwelling (e.g. shed or detached garage), if you read the definition of "Dwelling" in Article 100 of the NEC, it is clear than an accessory building to a dwelling is not a dwelling. Even if an inspector accepts a code violation, your liability for violating the code is still there. The moral is don't run uncovered romex in an accessory building. :-) Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
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Running Electrical wire in shed
"Steve Barker" wrote in message ... It's your shed. Put the wire where YOU want it. -- All you scholars who think bush messed up..... You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just wait. You'll be cryin' for mercy after a while with Bro Bama "RedDwarf" wrote in message ... I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... I've seen quite a few sheds and garages that are wired that aren't sheetrocked ..In fact I don't think I've ever seen a garden shed sheetrocked so I'm just a little confused...If I run a wire out to the wife's garden shed for a light and an outlet or 2 I have to sheetrock it??? I find that hard to believe based on what I've seen out in the real world.... |
Running Electrical wire in shed
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Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-21, benick wrote:
I've seen quite a few sheds and garages that are wired that aren't sheetrocked ..In fact I don't think I've ever seen a garden shed sheetrocked so I'm just a little confused...If I run a wire out to the wife's garden shed for a light and an outlet or 2 I have to sheetrock it??? I find that hard to believe based on what I've seen out in the real world.... If the garage is detached, and you are using Romex, it needs sheetrock or the equivalent to comply with the NEC, unless your state has amended that section. Often the real world and the building codes are in conflict. :-) It would be simplest just to use MC/AC cable instead of Romex. Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message ... On 2009-01-21, benick wrote: I've seen quite a few sheds and garages that are wired that aren't sheetrocked ..In fact I don't think I've ever seen a garden shed sheetrocked so I'm just a little confused...If I run a wire out to the wife's garden shed for a light and an outlet or 2 I have to sheetrock it??? I find that hard to believe based on what I've seen out in the real world.... If the garage is detached, and you are using Romex, it needs sheetrock or the equivalent to comply with the NEC, unless your state has amended that section. Often the real world and the building codes are in conflict. :-) It would be simplest just to use MC/AC cable instead of Romex. Cheers, Wayne , unless your state has amended that section. That is probably the case Wayne because I have NEVER seen MC/AC Cable in ANY unfinished sheds or garages here in Maine including my dads garage which he wired himself and is just a few years old and the CEO didn't fail it...Gonna look into it though..Wife wants a light in her 10X10 garden shed...Does that apply to attached garages as well??? Next spring I will be wiring my attached garage with my dads help....Thanks.... |
Running Electrical wire in shed
i've never seen it in kansas or missouri either. Always just romex on
studs. no wallboard. -- All you scholars who think bush messed up..... You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just wait. You'll be cryin' for mercy after a while with Bro Bama "benick" wrote in message ... That is probably the case Wayne because I have NEVER seen MC/AC Cable in ANY unfinished sheds or garages here in Maine including my dads garage which he wired himself and is just a few years old and the CEO didn't fail it...Gonna look into it though..Wife wants a light in her 10X10 garden shed...Does that apply to attached garages as well??? Next spring I will be wiring my attached garage with my dads help....Thanks.... |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-21, benick wrote:
That is probably the case Wayne because I have NEVER seen MC/AC Cable in ANY unfinished sheds or garages here in Maine More likely, I think, is that nobody enforces that section. It was changed in one of the 90's NEC versions, I think; previously Romex had been prohibited in buildings above a certain height. The wire lobby got that lifted in exchange for the coverage requirement. So inspectors were used to uncovered Romex in residential garages and never started enforcing the change. Does that apply to attached garages as well No, a "dwelling" is a building with a "dwelling unit", so your attached garage is still part of a dwelling. Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 11:28*am, RedDwarf wrote:
On Jan 20, 12:50*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , RedDwarf wrote: thanks everyone. I wouldn't mind drilling - the problem is when I drill, i'm going through a spade bit like every 2 or 3 studs. it's getting expensive. First off, if this is "getting expensive", that's your own fault. Spade bits can be *easily* resharpened in seconds on a grinder, or in a minute or two with a file. There's no need to throw them away just because they're dull. Second, if you're dulling them that fast -- your drill is set in reverse. Flip the switch so it spins the other way, and it'll work a LOT better. Well assuming spade bits drive like every other drill bit - then it's set correctly. I don't think you can build a shed from the ground up not knowing which way a bit spins. The problem is that the to prongs/ spades keep breaking off as I begin to get through the 2x4. I may try sharpening the point itself and see how that goes. Odd, I still have the original ones I started with 30 years ago and haven't had one point break off. Had to resharpen them occasionally. I re did my entire small house that included stripping the walls to bare studs and rewiring, plus sheds, work at my mother's house, etc. Still dreag them out occsionaly. If you are having the problems you claim, you are either doing something seriously wrong or have some _very_ cheap bits. Harry K Harry K |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 12:05*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:49:58 -0800 (PST), Harry K wrote: On Jan 20, 6:54*am, RedDwarf wrote: I built this shed in the backyard, it has a dedicated 20amp GFCI circuit running to it. Once inside the shed (it comes in from the floor) I have it hit a junction box and branch out to the various spots i need it (outlets/lights etc.). My question is, do I HAVE to run the wire through the studs (drilling a lot of holes because studs are 16 on center)? or can I run it on the surface of the wood, near the top sill? what are my options? I have a work bench, am I allowed to run it under the work surface, and staple it to the underside? any thoughts as to how I can avoid drilling a bunch of holes? I live in norfolk, va... I would do it right. *you will quite likely decide later to cover the bare studs with something. *Drilling those holes is not a major undertaking. *Get a spade bit - 5/8" will pass one romex conductor easily and time to drill each hole is way less than a minute. Put the holes in the _middle_ of the stud. Harry K I hacksawed off part of a spade bit shank to allow my drill to fit between the studs. * Since then I bought a 90-Degree drill attachment.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I don't bother to do that. Using Romex it will run through holes drilled at a bit of a slant with no problem. Harry K |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On Jan 20, 7:43*pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2009-01-21, benick wrote: That is probably the case Wayne because I have NEVER seen MC/AC Cable in ANY unfinished sheds or garages here in Maine More likely, I think, is that nobody enforces that section. *It was changed in one of the 90's NEC versions, I think; previously Romex had been prohibited in buildings above a certain height. *The wire lobby got that lifted in exchange for the coverage requirement. *So inspectors were used to uncovered Romex in residential garages and never started enforcing the change. Does that apply to attached garages as well No, a "dwelling" is a building with a "dwelling unit", so your attached garage is still part of a dwelling. Cheers, Wayne I suspect you are misreading the code. I have seen new construction recently where it is romex in the basement ceiling with no covering. Harry K |
Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-21, Harry K wrote:
No, a "dwelling" is a building with a "dwelling unit", so your attached garage is still part of a dwelling. I suspect you are misreading the code. Take a look at it yourself in the previous posts. I have seen new construction recently where it is romex in the basement ceiling with no covering. This is the basement of a house? Once the building has a "dwelling unit", the whole building is a "dwelling", so there is no blanket requirement for a 15-minute finish. For residential property, the requirement for a 15-minute finish is only for detached buildings such as sheds, garages, etc. Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2009-01-21, benick wrote: That is probably the case Wayne because I have NEVER seen MC/AC Cable in ANY unfinished sheds or garages here in Maine More likely, I think, is that nobody enforces that section. It was changed in one of the 90's NEC versions, I think; previously Romex had been prohibited in buildings above a certain height. The wire lobby got that lifted in exchange for the coverage requirement. Right idea but wrong lobby. I looked back at information from the code change (ROP and ROC). There was a task group that looked at the change (allow Romex in buildings above 3 floors), but it didn't have enough votes to bring a proposal to the code making panel. Multiple proposals were brought to the code making panel for the 2002 NEC by the National Multi-Housing Council. (There were proposals from some others including Massachusetts.) This was a major effort to change the code, probably aimed primarily at housing costs. The code making panel (which included a representative from the National Multi-Housing Council) rejected the changes (for good or bad reasons). So did the NFPA annual member meeting. The change was forced through by 'extraordinary' methods. Apparently manufacturers have never argued for the change. The the NEMA Building Wire Technical Committee unanimously voted to oppose the change. The change allows Romex to be used in residential structures over 3 floors - the major change that was pushed. It also allowed Romex to be used in 'other' structures (like commercial) over 3 floors but added the 15 minute wall rating. This wall rating did not previously exist for 'other' structures less than 3 floors. Since the change, the code making panel has (understandably) refused to make changes (such as exempt garages). So inspectors were used to uncovered Romex in residential garages and never started enforcing the change. I doubt you will find many inspectors that think a 15 minute wall rating is useful in a garage or shed. I suspect most inspectors will ignore the restriction, just as they modify other code that can result in unreasonable requirements in a particular instance. Does that apply to attached garages as well No, a "dwelling" is a building with a "dwelling unit", so your attached garage is still part of a dwelling. But a detached garage is a commercial space? Industrial? It is really difficult to write any code that applies to 'every thing'. That is one reason the NEC changes every 3 years. And why the AHJ is given final authority. -- bud-- |
Running Electrical wire in shed
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Running Electrical wire in shed
On 2009-01-21, bud-- wrote:
Right idea but wrong lobby. I looked back at information from the code change (ROP and ROC). Thanks for the background, it was informative. No, a "dwelling" is a building with a "dwelling unit", so your attached garage is still part of a dwelling. But a detached garage is a commercial space? Industrial? It is really difficult to write any code that applies to 'every thing'. That is one reason the NEC changes every 3 years. And why the AHJ is given final authority. I don't know what a detached garage is (Occupancy U in the building code?) but it is not a dwelling as far as the NEC is concerned. From Article 100: Dwelling, One-Family. A building that consists solely of one dwelling unit. Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. Cheers, Wayne |
Running Electrical wire in shed
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