I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

On Jan 2, 4:00*pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

nate

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

************************************************** ****************

Or, you can get a full flow ball valve with the hose bib built onto it.

like
http://www.arrowheadbrass.com/op_cha...02BV/0/0/0/0/0

I got mine at Lowe's

Bob F wrote:
"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

************************************************** ****************

Or, you can get a full flow ball valve with the hose bib built onto it.

like
http://www.arrowheadbrass.com/op_cha...02BV/0/0/0/0/0

I got mine at Lowe's


Those are cute. Are the handles stainless? (e.g. could they be used to
replace a sillcock?) For the price they better be! For the
applications that I have used, however, a straight fitting actually
works better than an angled sillcock (cistern drains, water heater
drains, etc.) so the 3/4" pipe ball valve with the garden hose thread
adapter is the perfect solution (and cheaper too...)

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

************************************************** ****************

Or, you can get a full flow ball valve with the hose bib built onto it.

like
http://www.arrowheadbrass.com/op_cha...02BV/0/0/0/0/0

I got mine at Lowe's


Those are cute. Are the handles stainless? (e.g. could they be used to
replace a sillcock?) For the price they better be! For the applications that
I have used, however, a straight fitting actually works better than an angled
sillcock (cistern drains, water heater drains, etc.) so the 3/4" pipe ball
valve with the garden hose thread adapter is the perfect solution (and cheaper
too...)

Actually, the one I got at Lowe's wasn't much more than a regular ball valve.
The handle is stainless, but it is beginning to look like the nut that holds it
on is not.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:14 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote:

On Jan 2, 4:00*pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

nate

I rigged up a regular plumbing type of ball valve on the end of a
garden hose for farm use. I turn it on and off about ten times a day,
it's only one year old and already leaks a little. Not to mention the
handle kept falling off and under the nut the threads were stripped in
short order. I finally used JB Weld to keep the handle in place.
They are more reliable than those cheap plastic ones made for hoses,
but if used all the time they dont last long. No valve used regularly
lasts very long, but at the same time if they are not used they sieze
up and if they have washers the washers deteriorate. For full house
shutoffs, they are better than washer valves adn allow better flow
too. Gate valves are another option, but those things take far too
many turns to open and close. Yet, I think a well made gate valve has
the longest life span. By the way, I am a retired plumber.

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:14 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote:

On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

nate

I rigged up a regular plumbing type of ball valve on the end of a
garden hose for farm use. I turn it on and off about ten times a day,
it's only one year old and already leaks a little. Not to mention the
handle kept falling off and under the nut the threads were stripped in
short order. I finally used JB Weld to keep the handle in place.
They are more reliable than those cheap plastic ones made for hoses,
but if used all the time they dont last long. No valve used regularly
lasts very long, but at the same time if they are not used they sieze
up and if they have washers the washers deteriorate. For full house
shutoffs, they are better than washer valves adn allow better flow
too. Gate valves are another option, but those things take far too
many turns to open and close. Yet, I think a well made gate valve has
the longest life span. By the way, I am a retired plumber.
Something I have not heard mentioned in any of many threads on valves is
that the lowly globe valve is the only one of the bunch that can be repaired
, even without removing it from the line. I like the ball valves but I am
not convinced that they are any more reliable, whether used often or sitting
immobile for many years developing mineral deposits.

Don Young

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:01:16 -0600, "Don Young"
wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:14 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote:

On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

You're describing a "ball valve" and in general, yes. The downside to
ball valves is "service" means "replacement" but it seems that they
are more reliable than stop valves and their service life is much
longer. I don't like the garden hose ones but the brass bodied ones
used inline with your plumbing are great. I've been using them
whenever I need to replace an existing valve. Also you can get a pipe-
to-garden hose adapter in the loose brass section of the plumbing
aisle, I've been using threaded ball valves with one of those adapters
to replace spigots as well (e.g. water heater drain) not only are they
more reliable but they offer much better flow.

nate

I rigged up a regular plumbing type of ball valve on the end of a
garden hose for farm use. I turn it on and off about ten times a day,
it's only one year old and already leaks a little. Not to mention the
handle kept falling off and under the nut the threads were stripped in
short order. I finally used JB Weld to keep the handle in place.
They are more reliable than those cheap plastic ones made for hoses,
but if used all the time they dont last long. No valve used regularly
lasts very long, but at the same time if they are not used they sieze
up and if they have washers the washers deteriorate. For full house
shutoffs, they are better than washer valves adn allow better flow
too. Gate valves are another option, but those things take far too
many turns to open and close. Yet, I think a well made gate valve has
the longest life span. By the way, I am a retired plumber.
Something I have not heard mentioned in any of many threads on valves is
that the lowly globe valve is the only one of the bunch that can be repaired
, even without removing it from the line. I like the ball valves but I am
not convinced that they are any more reliable, whether used often or sitting
immobile for many years developing mineral deposits.

Don Young


You're right, and the ball valves with the nylon plastic ball are
easily chewed up by minerals. One piece of sand and the ball is
trash, meaning the whole valve is junk. Brass balls are better, but
these days everything is plastic, unless you go to a high priced one
which you wont find at Home Depot.

On Jan 2, 4:00*pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

I don't know about superior, but they should be fine for low pressure
full on-off applications. Partially open, the ball may wear to the
degree it no longer offers complete shut-off, so these are not a good
choice for pressure/flow/noise regulation.
-----

- gpsman

how is a stainless steel ball going to wear with mere water going past it?

s


"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 4:00 pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

I don't know about superior, but they should be fine for low pressure
full on-off applications. Partially open, the ball may wear to the
degree it no longer offers complete shut-off, so these are not a good
choice for pressure/flow/noise regulation.
-----

- gpsman

"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message
...
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

I have one of these in my main water inlet in my basement (quarter turn
shutoff valve). If I close it and open it, it will drip out the stem and no
amout of adjustment will stop this. So I just let it drip. So, my answer to
your question is NO, they are not superior in this respect. YMMV...

On Jan 2, 3:00*pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

I would not buy any ball valve with plastic inside it.

I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

NOT with a plastic innards! The ball will wear almost instantly the
first time it gets used after the initial install.

yes.


s


"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message
...
I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:00:41 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
wrote:

I often find that oldish shutoff valves (toilet, sinks, garden hose)
around the house have a tendency to go leaky if they are turned on or
off after they are about 20 or 30 years old. Leaky in the sense that
water drips out of the step and no amount of adjustment will correct
it. Inspection inside shows that the washer inside is no longer
pliable at all. Sometimes I will put a new washer inside... but most
often I just replace the shutoff valve with a new one.

New ones I've been buying are "quarter turn" shutoff valves, and they
are obviously different construction inside (no compression washer).
The ones I'm getting are metal outside but the inside is a plastic
piece with a hole that goes from being "on" (holes line up) or
"off" (holes don't line up) without a washer. Are these generally
superior to the washer-type ones?

Tim.


There are valves that vary greatly in quality. I've got the cheap
builders-grade valves, so far, no leaks yet after 17 years. I might
buy a $15 valve, but certainly not a $65 valve. You can get the
better quality at a plumbing shop.