I have an active direct circulating solar hot water system in my
Florida home for family use (not for a pool or anything like that) and
had it installed around 20 years ago. It consists of an 80 gallon
tank and a roof mounted panel, I also added a Little Gray Box timer so
in case there's not enough sunlight it will heat the water
conventionally at times of high use (morning showers, etc). In the
last couple weeks my youngest moved out to his own apartment so it's
just me in the house. My tank is nearing it's life expectancy so it's
time to replace. My question is should I stick with the 80 gallon
tank or go with a smaller tank, like a 50 gallon? I can see if I
don't have enough sun to heat the water, the electric means to heat 80
gallons is pretty taxing. But I can also see that on sunny days
(which we have a lot of), you'd want to capture as much of that heat
as possible. Don't want to get into an 'overheating' condition since
it's direct circulating the water in the panel has to be kept under
the boiling point and the only way to do that is to circulate cooler
water thru, and with a 50 gallon tank it might mean it has to vent
steam pressure to prevent panel damage.

With the difference between the 50 gallon 12 year tank and the 80
gallon 9 year around $150, and around $200 difference between the 50
gallon 12 year and the 80 gallon lifetime, my question is should I
stick with the 80 gallon? Also don't want to be paying to heat 80
gallons of water electrically on cloudy days.

Any suggestions?

On Dec 16, 10:50*am, infiniteMPG wrote:
I have an active direct circulating solar hot water system in my
Florida home for family use (not for a pool or anything like that) and
had it installed around 20 years ago. *It consists of an 80 gallon
tank and a roof mounted panel, I also added a Little Gray Box timer so
in case there's not enough sunlight it will heat the water
conventionally at times of high use (morning showers, etc). *In the
last couple weeks my youngest moved out to his own apartment so it's
just me in the house. *My tank is nearing it's life expectancy so it's
time to replace. *My question is should I stick with the 80 gallon
tank or go with a smaller tank, like a 50 gallon? *I can see if I
don't have enough sun to heat the water, the electric means to heat 80
gallons is pretty taxing. *But I can also see that on sunny days
(which we have a lot of), you'd want to capture as much of that heat
as possible. *Don't want to get into an 'overheating' condition since
it's direct circulating the water in the panel has to be kept under
the boiling point and the only way to do that is to circulate cooler
water thru, and with a 50 gallon tank it might mean it has to vent
steam pressure to prevent panel damage.

With the difference between the 50 gallon 12 year tank and the 80
gallon 9 year around $150, and around $200 difference between the 50
gallon 12 year and the 80 gallon lifetime, my question is should I
stick with the 80 gallon? *Also don't want to be paying to heat 80
gallons of water electrically on cloudy days.

Any suggestions?

You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower I would be thinking
to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot
enough a cheap small electric 20-30a tankless would be far more
efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need. but what
about a cloudy week or month.

You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower *I would be thinking to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot enough a cheap small electric 20-30a *tankless would be far more efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need.

Looked at the tankless but are they not more for point of use then
whole house? And the ones that are whole house cost more then the 80
gallon lifetime tank.

but what about a cloudy week or month.

In west central Florida near the coast and it's rare to have a couple
days without enough sunlight to get hot water. And the Gray Box
cranks on the electric heater just before dawn so the morning shower
is never cold, even with cloudly/stormy days. :O)

Kind of brings up another question. If you have a hot water heater
and (for this example) NO solar, if you turn the heater off for most
part of the day and then on in time to heat water for an evening
shower, does it cost more to heat a cool or cold tank of water then it
would to just maintain it all hot all day long???? Kind of like that
old AC question, better to leave it on all the time rather then try to
cool and hot house when you get home?

On Dec 16, 4:30�pm, infiniteMPG wrote:
You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower �I would be thinking to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot enough a cheap small electric 20-30a �tankless would be far more efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need.

Looked at the tankless but are they not more for point of use then
whole house? �And the ones that are whole house cost more then the 80
gallon lifetime tank.

but what about a cloudy week or month.

In west central Florida near the coast and it's rare to have a couple
days without enough sunlight to get hot water. �And the Gray Box
cranks on the electric heater just before dawn so the morning shower
is never cold, even with cloudly/stormy days. �:O)

Kind of brings up another question. �If you have a hot water heater
and (for this example) NO solar, if you turn the heater off for most
part of the day and then on in time to heat water for an evening
shower, does it cost more to heat a cool or cold tank of water then it
would to just maintain it all hot all day long???? �Kind of like that
old AC question, better to leave it on all the time rather then try to
cool and hot house when you get home?

your far better going for the larger tank, it costs not much more and
allows storage for cloudy days, a smaler tank would be a resale killer
when that time comes.

turning off heat does save a little, but the real improvement for you
will be the added efficency of a new tank and its superior foam
insulation.

On Dec 16, 5:47*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 16, 4:30 pm, infiniteMPG wrote:





You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower I would be thinking to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot enough a cheap small electric 20-30a tankless would be far more efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need.

Looked at the tankless but are they not more for point of use then
whole house? And the ones that are whole house cost more then the 80
gallon lifetime tank.

but what about a cloudy week or month.

In west central Florida near the coast and it's rare to have a couple
days without enough sunlight to get hot water. And the Gray Box
cranks on the electric heater just before dawn so the morning shower
is never cold, even with cloudly/stormy days. :O)

Kind of brings up another question. If you have a hot water heater
and (for this example) NO solar, if you turn the heater off for most
part of the day and then on in time to heat water for an evening
shower, does it cost more to heat a cool or cold tank of water then it
would to just maintain it all hot all day long???? Kind of like that
old AC question, better to leave it on all the time rather then try to
cool and hot house when you get home?


Just like with heating a house, you save by having it at a lower temp
and then bringing it to desired temp when needed. The only exceptions
would be if energy rates were different at different times of the day,
or if a different energy source were used, eg in winter a heat pump
might kick in electric heat to raise the temp quickly. In the case of
an electric water heater though, the cost savings of setting it back
for say 8 hours isn't going to amount to much at all. In that time,
it won't cool very much.




your far better going for the larger tank, it costs not much more and
allows storage for cloudy days, a smaler tank would be a resale killer
when that time comes.

turning off heat does save a little, but the real improvement for you
will be the added efficency of a new tank and its superior foam
insulation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The only real cost factor from an operating standpoint is the amount
of electricity it takes to cover the standby heat loss of a 50 gallon
tank vs an 80 gallon one. And I would think that could be easily
offset or more by the fact that with solar the 80 offers more storage
and less likely to need some of the electric to raise the temp.

On Dec 16, 3:30*pm, infiniteMPG wrote:
You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower *I would be thinking to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot enough a cheap small electric 20-30a *tankless would be far more efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need.

Looked at the tankless but are they not more for point of use then
whole house? *And the ones that are whole house cost more then the 80
gallon lifetime tank.

but what about a cloudy week or month.

In west central Florida near the coast and it's rare to have a couple
days without enough sunlight to get hot water. *And the Gray Box
cranks on the electric heater just before dawn so the morning shower
is never cold, even with cloudly/stormy days. *:O)

Kind of brings up another question. *If you have a hot water heater
and (for this example) NO solar, if you turn the heater off for most
part of the day and then on in time to heat water for an evening
shower, does it cost more to heat a cool or cold tank of water then it
would to just maintain it all hot all day long???? *Kind of like that
old AC question, better to leave it on all the time rather then try to
cool and hot house when you get home?

There are small electric 15-30a units I have used many times, a friend
had one to heat a sink in his garage, flow was good and water hot.
You have to do temp measurements of what is avalaible with only sun
and after shade with tank off for a few days to realy know what btu is
needed, it would be flow and temperatures over a few days. I can say I
went from electric high insulated tank to a 460$ 117000 btu Bosch Ng
tankless, that cut my electric bill maybe 30 -35$ and only increased
gas maybe 7$ so I have a 4 yr payback on Ng Tankless. Ng, Propane, or
electric is the cheapest option to operate, small electric may work
fine if tank temp is high enough. It depends on how hot you want HW, I
only need 96f at the showerhead in summer and maybe100 in winter to
shower or 110 out of the tank, if the solar doesnt go below 70f
something very small would work. You need to talk to people that use
solar and explore options. A whole house electric that heats s single
ufe from near 40f incomming water would require maybe 200 amps on its
own, but a small unit might only need 20-30a if your solar set up had
enough reserve. Then there are cheap Ng and propane tankless, the
cheapest might now be 500$ not intalled

On Dec 17, 8:31*am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 16, 3:30*pm, infiniteMPG wrote:





You need pro advise , maybe alt.energy.homepower *I would be thinking to not heat the tank but use it for solar storage, if its near hot enough a cheap small electric 20-30a *tankless would be far more efficent, for single use it probably would be all you need.

Looked at the tankless but are they not more for point of use then
whole house? *And the ones that are whole house cost more then the 80
gallon lifetime tank.

but what about a cloudy week or month.

In west central Florida near the coast and it's rare to have a couple
days without enough sunlight to get hot water. *And the Gray Box
cranks on the electric heater just before dawn so the morning shower
is never cold, even with cloudly/stormy days. *:O)

Kind of brings up another question. *If you have a hot water heater
and (for this example) NO solar, if you turn the heater off for most
part of the day and then on in time to heat water for an evening
shower, does it cost more to heat a cool or cold tank of water then it
would to just maintain it all hot all day long???? *Kind of like that
old AC question, better to leave it on all the time rather then try to
cool and hot house when you get home?

There are small electric 15-30a units I have used many times, a friend
had one to heat a sink in his garage, flow was good and water hot.
You have to do temp measurements of what is avalaible with only sun
and after shade with tank off for a few days to realy know what btu is
needed, it would be flow and temperatures over a few days. I can say I
went from electric high insulated tank to a 460$ 117000 btu Bosch Ng
tankless, that cut my electric bill maybe 30 -35$ and only increased
gas maybe 7$ so I have a 4 yr payback on Ng Tankless. Ng, Propane, or
electric is the cheapest option to operate, small electric may work
fine if tank temp is high enough. It depends on how hot you want HW, I
only need 96f at the showerhead in summer and maybe100 in winter to
shower or 110 out of the tank, if the solar doesnt go below 70f
something very small would work. You need to talk to people that use
solar and explore options. A whole house electric that heats s single
ufe from near 40f incomming water would require maybe 200 amps on its
own, but a small unit might only need 20-30a if your solar set up had
enough reserve. Then there are cheap Ng and propane tankless, the
cheapest might now be 500$ not intalled- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good idea. A solar tank combined with a whole house tankless sounds
like it could be a good solution. You could do it with a smaller
tankless because the incoming water from the solar tank will be much
higher than typical water from city or well. It would be more
economical operating than using an energy source to keep the tank
always at 130.