Ceiling fixture wiring question
I'm replacing a ceiling light fixture in my kitchen, we've only lived
in the house a few months. I removed the old light and in the junction box there are four romex cables coming into the box and the wires for the light. So let's call the four Romex cables C1, C2, C3 and C4. The first 3 are easy, C1, C2, C3 all have their black wires tied together and all have their white wires tied together (and all ground wires together). C4 confuses me a bit (but that's not that hard to do), The black from C4 goes to the light, the other wire from the light goes to the group of white wires all tied together which makes sense...but the white from C4 is tied into the group of black wires. Why would that be? I would think that the white from C4 would get tied in with the white wires, not the black wires....does this make sense? Many thanks |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Mash wrote:
I'm replacing a ceiling light fixture in my kitchen, we've only lived in the house a few months. I removed the old light and in the junction box there are four romex cables coming into the box and the wires for the light. So let's call the four Romex cables C1, C2, C3 and C4. The first 3 are easy, C1, C2, C3 all have their black wires tied together and all have their white wires tied together (and all ground wires together). C4 confuses me a bit (but that's not that hard to do), The black from C4 goes to the light, the other wire from the light goes to the group of white wires all tied together which makes sense...but the white from C4 is tied into the group of black wires. Why would that be? I would think that the white from C4 would get tied in with the white wires, not the black wires....does this make sense? Many thanks C4 is a switch leg. White takes current to the switch, and it comes back to the light on the black. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
c4 is your switch. the white in it should have been taped black.
s "Mash" wrote in message ... I'm replacing a ceiling light fixture in my kitchen, we've only lived in the house a few months. I removed the old light and in the junction box there are four romex cables coming into the box and the wires for the light. So let's call the four Romex cables C1, C2, C3 and C4. The first 3 are easy, C1, C2, C3 all have their black wires tied together and all have their white wires tied together (and all ground wires together). C4 confuses me a bit (but that's not that hard to do), The black from C4 goes to the light, the other wire from the light goes to the group of white wires all tied together which makes sense...but the white from C4 is tied into the group of black wires. Why would that be? I would think that the white from C4 would get tied in with the white wires, not the black wires....does this make sense? Many thanks |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
"Mash" wrote in message ... I'm replacing a ceiling light fixture in my kitchen, we've only lived in the house a few months. I removed the old light and in the junction box there are four romex cables coming into the box and the wires for the light. So let's call the four Romex cables C1, C2, C3 and C4. The first 3 are easy, C1, C2, C3 all have their black wires tied together and all have their white wires tied together (and all ground wires together). C4 confuses me a bit (but that's not that hard to do), The black from C4 goes to the light, the other wire from the light goes to the group of white wires all tied together which makes sense...but the white from C4 is tied into the group of black wires. Why would that be? I would think that the white from C4 would get tied in with the white wires, not the black wires....does this make sense? Many thanks It was necessary to wire it that way to include the wall switch in the circuit and have a black wire and a white wire feed the light fixture. If you were to open up the switch you would find that the white wire is hot and the black wire is the load feeding the fixture. If the black on the switch was hot and the white was the load you would end up with two white wires feeding the light fixture. This wiring scheme is normal and an accepted practice. Do not make any changes to the wiring. Just disconnect the two wires from the existing light fixture and connect the new light fixture to them. |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
On Nov 5, 11:20*pm, Mash wrote:
I'm replacing a ceiling light fixture in my kitchen, we've only lived in the house a few months. I removed the old light and in the junction box there are four romex cables coming into the box and the wires for the light. So let's call the four Romex cables C1, C2, C3 and C4. The first 3 are easy, C1, C2, C3 all have their black wires tied together and all have their white wires tied together (and all ground wires together). C4 confuses me a bit (but that's not that hard to do), The black from C4 goes to the light, the other wire from the light goes to the group of white wires all tied together which makes sense...but the white from C4 is tied into the group of black wires. Why would that be? I would think that the white from C4 would get tied in with the white wires, not the black wires....does this make sense? Many thanks "we've only lived in the house a few months." Just curious...what does this have to do with the situation? |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
It was necessary to wire it that way to include the wall switch in the
circuit and have a black wire and a white wire feed the light fixture. *If you were to open up the switch you would find that the white wire is hot and the black wire is the load feeding the fixture. *If the black on the switch was hot and the white was the load you would end up with two white wires feeding the light fixture. *This wiring scheme is normal and an accepted practice. Do not make any changes to the wiring. *Just disconnect the two wires from the existing light fixture and connect the new light fixture to them.- Hide quoted text - Thanks alot for the answers, that makes sense. I have one more challenge though. The location of the current junction box is not correct. I actually need to install my light about 1 foot away from the current lights' location. So I can't just connect the new light to where the current light is. My plan was to put a cover on the junction box that is there now. Then install a new junction box in the new, correct location. So I guess what I need to do is bring into my new junction box C4 (from the switch) and C3? Then wire the black from C4 to the light fixture and take the white from C3 and wire to the other leg of the light fixture? Then obviously continue the wiring on the old, existing junction box. Does that make sense? c4 is your switch. the white in it should have been taped black. I'm going to do that. Thanks |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
*"we've only lived in the house a few months." Just curious...what does this have to do with the situation?- Hide quoted text - Good question....I guess I was hoping somebody would bake us a pie for our new house :) |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
On Nov 6, 10:01*am, Mash wrote:
*"we've only lived in the house a few months." Just curious...what does this have to do with the situation?- Hide quoted text - Good question....I guess I was hoping somebody would bake us a pie for our new house :) I'll go home and bake a nice apple pie for you this evening. Since I have no way of getting it to you, I'll eat it for you also. Welcome to the neigborhood. |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
On Nov 6, 9:01 am, Mash wrote:
It was necessary to wire it that way to include the wall switch in the circuit and have a black wire and a white wire feed the light fixture. If you were to open up the switch you would find that the white wire is hot and the black wire is the load feeding the fixture. If the black on the switch was hot and the white was the load you would end up with two white wires feeding the light fixture. This wiring scheme is normal and an accepted practice. Do not make any changes to the wiring. Just disconnect the two wires from the existing light fixture and connect the new light fixture to them.- Hide quoted text - Thanks alot for the answers, that makes sense. I have one more challenge though. The location of the current junction box is not correct. I actually need to install my light about 1 foot away from the current lights' location. So I can't just connect the new light to where the current light is. My plan was to put a cover on the junction box that is there now. Then install a new junction box in the new, correct location. So I guess what I need to do is bring into my new junction box C4 (from the switch) and C3? Then wire the black from C4 to the light fixture and take the white from C3 and wire to the other leg of the light fixture? Then obviously continue the wiring on the old, existing junction box. Does that make sense? I is usually easiest to add a new romex from the old j-box to the new box. Connect to the wires that feed the light in the old box. c4 is your switch. the white in it should have been taped black. I'm going to do that. Thanks Taping is another method that is used. The wiring is compliant with the NEC as is. (Tape it if you want to.) -- bud-- |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
I is usually easiest to add a new romex from the old j-box to the new box. Connect to the wires that feed the light in the old box. Yes, that definitely seems easier. Thanks! |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Steve Barker DLT wrote:
c4 is your switch. the white in it should have been taped black. No, it shouldn't. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
On Nov 6, 7:19*pm, "alarman" wrote:
Steve Barker DLT wrote: c4 is your switch. *the white in it should have been taped black. No, it shouldn't. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson Please expand on your eloquent statement. |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Oh yes it should..
s "alarman" wrote in message ... Steve Barker DLT wrote: c4 is your switch. the white in it should have been taped black. No, it shouldn't. -- js |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Steve Barker DLT wrote:
Oh yes it should.. In your DIY world perhaps. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
alarman wrote:
Steve Barker DLT wrote: Oh yes it should.. In your DIY world perhaps. And the NEC world as well, if it was indeed as described, the hot carrier. -- |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
dpb wrote:
alarman wrote: Steve Barker DLT wrote: Oh yes it should.. In your DIY world perhaps. And the NEC world as well, if it was indeed as described, the hot carrier. It is not done, as a rule, by professional electricians. The NEC refers to it all right, but it is optional. To say that it "should" be done is absurd. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
OR in the NEC
s "alarman" wrote in message ... Steve Barker DLT wrote: Oh yes it should.. In your DIY world perhaps. -- js A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ----George Bernard Shaw A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Steve Barker DLT wrote:
OR in the NEC Hmmm...lessee...Nope, can't find where is says you SHOULD tape the white in the NEC. (Hint: It's not done) js |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
Yup. That's the way I always read it too. What's more, and probably even
more important in this sort of situation, is to have the end at the switch taped and identified so someone opening the switch won't think a white wire is a neutral. wrote in message ... On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:47:22 -0800, "alarman" wrote: Steve Barker DLT wrote: OR in the NEC Hmmm...lessee...Nope, can't find where is says you SHOULD tape the white in the NEC. (Hint: It's not done) js You didn't look very hard 200.7(C)(2)Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. tape is considered an effective means. |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
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Ceiling fixture wiring question
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Ceiling fixture wiring question
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Ceiling fixture wiring question
DerbyDad03 wrote in
: On Nov 6, 10:01*am, Mash wrote: *"we've only lived in the house a few months." Just curious...what does this have to do with the situation?- Hide quot ed text - Good question....I guess I was hoping somebody would bake us a pie for our new house :) I'll go home and bake a nice apple pie for you this evening. Since I have no way of getting it to you, I'll eat it for you also. Welcome to the neigborhood. Can I get summa dat pie too? Oops! Wrong newsgroup :-) |
Ceiling fixture wiring question
wrote:
On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:33:49 -0600, bud-- wrote: wrote: On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:47:22 -0800, "alarman" wrote: Steve Barker DLT wrote: OR in the NEC Hmmm...lessee...Nope, can't find where is says you SHOULD tape the white in the NEC. (Hint: It's not done) js You didn't look very hard 200.7(C)(2)Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. tape is considered an effective means. The 1993 NEC explicitly allowed the white wire to feed a switch without being remarked. I didn't pickup the change, which was by 2002 and may have been 1999. If the light was wired under the 1993 (1996?) (or probably earlier) NEC it is code compliant (though remarking is a good idea). ===================== The current language (above) does not appear to allow power feed to a light, with 3 wire romex to 3-way switches (or 3 and 4-way switches). The feed to one 3-way with the white as supply would be compliant. Wiring to the other 3-way and 4-ways does not appear to comply. I would not call travelers a "supply" wire. I do not see how you can use a remarked white wire to a 4-way switch, mentioned above. The way I read the language you have to wire power to 3–way (to 4–way) to 3-way to light. I agree there is at least one legal way to wire 3 and 4 way loops that you can not make comply to this rule. (IE. fed from the center) You missed your chance to write a proposal for the 2011 to fix it (Nov 7 as I recall) Look at the ROP when it comes out and see if there is a proposal you can modify with a comment, assuming this is not already pointed out. C)(2) made sense when (1996NEC) a white could feed a switch. The section should have been deleted when that practice was eliminated. (C)(1) allows a remarked white to be used as a traveler. The law of unintended consequences. I never thought of modifying the code by an unrelated comment to the ROP. -- bud-- |
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