I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to
trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet
and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the
potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

It may be of help to know which rooms or locations these dead outlets are in

Mike Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.
if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

Possibly they're on split circuit switched?

Also could be downstream of a GFCI.

--

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:33:43 -0500, dpb wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.
if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

Possibly they're on split circuit switched?


not on a switch. Circuit has been live for years with no problems.

Also could be downstream of a GFCI.

no gfi

Michael Dobony wrote:
....

not on a switch. Circuit has been live for years with no problems.

Then the connection failure previously noted is most likely.

--

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:36:35 -0500, Mike Dobony
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

The first thing is make sure the other outlets are on the same
breaker. The setup you have described seems pretty unlikely. I am
guessing that for some good reason, the electrician alternated
circuits.

You can use a continuity tester to identify the "next" receptacle by
opening the boxes and removing the receptacles from the wire, and
tracing the wire.

There should be a junction box somewhere in the loop. Try to picture
how you would connect them if you were the electrician. More failures
happen in the boxes than in the wiring.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:34:29 -0400, metspitzer wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:36:35 -0500, Mike Dobony
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:04:29 -0700, james wrote:

I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

if this is the only dead outlet, then the problem is between this outlet and
its "uplink"
I would check this outlet for any loose wire, then check all the potential
uplinks (nearby outlets or light switches)

There are 3 dead outlets with other good circuits nearby. There doesn't
seem to be any method to what outlets are on a particular circuit. There
are outlets in between and nearby that are powered.

The first thing is make sure the other outlets are on the same
breaker. The setup you have described seems pretty unlikely. I am
guessing that for some good reason, the electrician alternated
circuits.

You can use a continuity tester to identify the "next" receptacle by
opening the boxes and removing the receptacles from the wire, and
tracing the wire.

There should be a junction box somewhere in the loop. Try to picture
how you would connect them if you were the electrician. More failures
happen in the boxes than in the wiring.

I have. None of the boxes has more than one pair of wires running directly
to the outlet. The outlets do not serve as junctions to the next outlet.

try these
http://cableorganizer.com/electrical...2.htm#features

search for circuit tracers

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:23:35 -0700, Pat wrote:

try these
http://cableorganizer.com/electrical...2.htm#features

search for circuit tracers

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

I have something like this. It needs a powered circuit. I need a
self-powered unit to test an unenergized circuit to trace back to the
source.

The Triplett Breaker Snit-It requires a powered circuit. It is useless for a circuit with no power.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...it-338236-.htm

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.


Forget about a tracer. Start by opening up the dead outlets. Look for
loose connections and burnt or broken wires. This problem is characteristic
of back stabbed outlets, but not limited to them. If you don't find
anything wrong go to the nearest receptacles or switches that are still
working and open them up.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:13:37 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.


Forget about a tracer. Start by opening up the dead outlets. Look for
loose connections and burnt or broken wires. This problem is characteristic
of back stabbed outlets, but not limited to them. If you don't find
anything wrong go to the nearest receptacles or switches that are still
working and open them up.

Already did that. All connections are secure and wires in good shape. In
addition, all the boxes have only one wire pair, which means there are
junctions in the ceiling somewhere.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:13:37 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to
trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.


Forget about a tracer. Start by opening up the dead outlets. Look for
loose connections and burnt or broken wires. This problem is
characteristic
of back stabbed outlets, but not limited to them. If you don't find
anything wrong go to the nearest receptacles or switches that are still
working and open them up.

Already did that. All connections are secure and wires in good shape. In
addition, all the boxes have only one wire pair, which means there are
junctions in the ceiling somewhere.


Junction boxes can be anywhere. Basement, attic or buried in a ceiling or
wall. Many years ago I found a buried junction box using a radio, a PA
transformer, a telephone pick up coil and a handheld tape recorder. I
hooked up the radio's speaker output to the PA transformer and connected one
side from that to the rigid metal conduit that contained the wiring. I
forget where I connected the other lead. Using the telephone pick up coil
plugged into the mic input on the tape recorder I was able to hear the music
from the radio radiating out from the floor and wall and found the box.

You may be able to rent a tracer that does the same thing or perhaps a
telephone tone tracer and pick up might work.

Mike Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:13:37 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

Forget about a tracer. Start by opening up the dead outlets. Look for
loose connections and burnt or broken wires. This problem is characteristic
of back stabbed outlets, but not limited to them. If you don't find
anything wrong go to the nearest receptacles or switches that are still
working and open them up.

Already did that. All connections are secure and wires in good shape. In
addition, all the boxes have only one wire pair, which means there are
junctions in the ceiling somewhere.

Daughter's 1955 house had similar problem. All room outlets fed
from ceiling lite box. It's a bit messy but here is what we did.

Only need a multi-meter, set for ohms ( to read shorts or opens)

1. Turn off breaker for ceiling box.
2. unplug any/all appliances in room
2. take down lite, open up box, noting which wires are spliced
together, especially the wall switch wires.
3. unsplice them
4. at outlet in question, twist black and white together (first
double-check that wires are DEAD !!)
5. use ohmeter to find the B/W pair that shows 0 ohms; ie, shorted
together

Actually just opening the ceiling box may show loose connection
causing problem. Do the rest just to be sure and for future reference.

(Actually S-I-L was changing lite fixture, and had *not* noted
original splicing before he undid everything . 4 outlets, 1 switch
and c/b feed all came into ceiling box. (Was that really allowed
in 1955 ?) He had all manner of sparks flying at first !!

--reed

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:07:12 -0600, Reed wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:13:37 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

Forget about a tracer. Start by opening up the dead outlets. Look for
loose connections and burnt or broken wires. This problem is characteristic
of back stabbed outlets, but not limited to them. If you don't find
anything wrong go to the nearest receptacles or switches that are still
working and open them up.

Already did that. All connections are secure and wires in good shape. In
addition, all the boxes have only one wire pair, which means there are
junctions in the ceiling somewhere.

Daughter's 1955 house had similar problem. All room outlets fed
from ceiling lite box. It's a bit messy but here is what we did.

Only need a multi-meter, set for ohms ( to read shorts or opens)

1. Turn off breaker for ceiling box.
2. unplug any/all appliances in room
2. take down lite, open up box, noting which wires are spliced
together, especially the wall switch wires.
3. unsplice them
4. at outlet in question, twist black and white together (first
double-check that wires are DEAD !!)
5. use ohmeter to find the B/W pair that shows 0 ohms; ie, shorted
together

Actually just opening the ceiling box may show loose connection
causing problem. Do the rest just to be sure and for future reference.

(Actually S-I-L was changing lite fixture, and had *not* noted
original splicing before he undid everything . 4 outlets, 1 switch
and c/b feed all came into ceiling box. (Was that really allowed
in 1955 ?) He had all manner of sparks flying at first !!

--reed

LOL!!! Was there a code in 55?

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to
trace these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only
works on powered lines. Thanks.


Sounds like a job for a telephone tracer. Half of the set puts a tone on the
line, the other half is a probe that detects the sound and amplifies it
through a speaker.

Here's one:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...cker&Submit=Go

There are also several on Ebay under the heading "cable tracker" or "tone
generator."

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:21:52 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to
trace these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only
works on powered lines. Thanks.


Sounds like a job for a telephone tracer. Half of the set puts a tone on the
line, the other half is a probe that detects the sound and amplifies it
through a speaker.

Here's one:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...cker&Submit=Go

There are also several on Ebay under the heading "cable tracker" or "tone
generator."

I like the price. I have another project I might be able to use this for.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.



Go buy a "fox & hound" (may be a brand name), it's a transmitter & receiver
pair. hook transmitter up to the wire, hold receiver near where wire is
expected, listen for warble tone.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

Have you checked for a wall switch which may be controlling the outlet?
Good luck.
Dick

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.

Mike D.

You can build your own circuit tracer cheaply
and have a little fun too. You will need a small
battery powered AM radio one that's the size of
your hand is best. A low voltage buzzer, the old
fashioned type that works with a doorbell transformer
which you will also need. You hook the buzzer to
the low voltage side of the transformer which may
have several taps like the Edwards #592 transformer.
The buzzer like an Edwards #725 which operates on 6
volts. You can probably find equivalents at Radio
Shack as long as it's an electromechanical buzzer
like the Edwards model. I assume you know enough
basic electricity to be able to hook everything up.
What you want is to come off one side of the buzzer
with a lead that you can stick into one side or
other to one of your dead receptacles. It would be
best to put the buzzer in a shoe box wrapped with
towels to muffle the noise. The RF static produced
by the buzzer can be detected by the AM radio and
with a little tuning and volume adjustment, you can
easily follow the the path of the wires within the
walls. You only need one lead coming off the buzzer
to effectively inject a signal into the dead wiring
but you may have to experiment with sticking it into
the hot or neutral sides of the dead outlets. I have
used the technique for many years with great success.
I have also used a telecom tone generator and AM radio
the same way. Of course these days I have all of the
expensive professional equipment to accomplish the job
so it's no fun anymore.

TDD

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:21:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits?

I have a similar problem, only GFI outlets are involved.
Most of the bathrooms and kitchen outlets and a few others nearby but not
in the bathroom or kitchen are totally dead.

All the GFI buttons are in the reset mode.
No fuse is tripped.

Can I use the fox and hound setup to find the problem with my wires?

Donna Ohl wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:21:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits?

I have a similar problem, only GFI outlets are involved.
Most of the bathrooms and kitchen outlets and a few others nearby but not
in the bathroom or kitchen are totally dead.

All the GFI buttons are in the reset mode.
No fuse is tripped.

Can I use the fox and hound setup to find the problem with my wires?

I don't see why not but you want to make sure
the circuit is dead first.

TDD

On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:06:31 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I have a similar problem, only GFI outlets are involved.
Can I use the fox and hound setup to find the problem with my wires?

I don't see why not but you want to make sure
the circuit is dead first.

Thanks Daring,

Looking up the tools to buy, it seems we have a choice of the following
electrical "tone and probe kits" for home use to trace why a half dozen of
my recepticles are dead.

Question 1: Is a "tone and probe kit" the right keyword to be looking for?

Question 2: If so, which of these I found googling is what we should use?
a) Triplett 3399 FOX 2/HOUND 3 KIT
b) Triplett 9650 BREAKER SNIFF-IT TYPE 2
c) Fluke PRO3000 Tone & Probe Kit
d) Fluke Pro2000 Tone & Probe
e) Core KE 501 Electric Tone & Probe Kit with 400V
f) Telecom Tools E100-0801 (801K) Tone & Probe Kit
g) Textron C100-2008 (2008) Power Finder Open Circuit Tracer

Donna

"Donna Ohl" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:06:31 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I have a similar problem, only GFI outlets are involved.
Can I use the fox and hound setup to find the problem with my wires?

I don't see why not but you want to make sure
the circuit is dead first.

Thanks Daring,

Looking up the tools to buy, it seems we have a choice of the following
electrical "tone and probe kits" for home use to trace why a half dozen of
my recepticles are dead.

Question 1: Is a "tone and probe kit" the right keyword to be looking for?

Question 2: If so, which of these I found googling is what we should use?
a) Triplett 3399 FOX 2/HOUND 3 KIT
b) Triplett 9650 BREAKER SNIFF-IT TYPE 2
c) Fluke PRO3000 Tone & Probe Kit
d) Fluke Pro2000 Tone & Probe
e) Core KE 501 Electric Tone & Probe Kit with 400V
f) Telecom Tools E100-0801 (801K) Tone & Probe Kit
g) Textron C100-2008 (2008) Power Finder Open Circuit Tracer

Donna


I would go with the Greenlee. Amprobe also makes a nice tracer. Using
these will not guarantee that you find the problem though. There is no
substitute for experience in a situation like this. The other poster thinks
he may have a junction box hidden somewhere and a tracer may help him find
it. It will not pinpoint the cause of his problem.

Have you opened each receptacle? Have you checked the connections in the
circuit breaker panel and checked to see if the circuit breaker is still
working? I would only use the tracer as a last resort. I am an electrician
and see dead outlets and circuits on a regular basis thanks to certain
builders, DIYers and handymen. I only feel the need to use a tracer every
few years or so and it is usually for an underground circuit. Most of the
time a little common sense and elbow grease is all it takes.

As another poster pointed out, the receptacles may be dead, but the hot wire
may still be live which would make it hazardous to work on.

On Oct 25, 8:47 am, Mike Dobony wrote:
I have a dead outlet, but no breakers are tripped. Is there a way to trace
these unpowered circuits? I have a circuit tracer, but it only works on
powered lines. Thanks.
..
Good ideas in other posts.

How do you know junctions are in the ceiling?
Do rooms have ceiling lights that are used as j-boxes?
Were some ceiling lights remodeled over?
What I am reading is that outlets only have one circuit/2 wires coming
in and connected to the receptacle. No wires going out.
Wiring method (romex, EMT, knob & tube, ...)? EMT or rigid pipe may
make the circuit hard to trace with an electrical tester but may be
traceable with a metal detector.

With 3 receptacles dead the problem is probably not in the middle of a
wiring run (unless you have knob and tube).

I would check the outlet(s) with a neon test light with 2 leads.
From your description it should not light up when connected H-N.
If there is a ground does it light up H-G?
With the*neon* light tester if you touch one of the test leads and
touch a hot wire with the other lead the light will glow very faintly
(try it on a good outlet). You can check if the hot wire is connected
(or just use the extension cord below).
With an extension cord to a working outlet and a bulb in a pigtail
socket you can test extension neutral to dead circuit. If the bulb
lights you have a connected hot wire.
If there is no connected hot wire you can test extension hot to dead
circuit. If the bulb lights you have a connected neutral. You can also
test the ground, if any.

If one of the wires (hot or neutral) is continuous you can connect
your circuit tracer from that wire to the appropriate wire in the
extension cord. That puts the signal on one of the wires you want to
trace. (It also puts the signal on the circuit the extension is
plugged into. You have to interpret the results to account for that.)
You can test in the panel and see which circuit the dead outlets are
on. That may give clues where to look depending on what else is on
that circuit
With luck you can trace the wires in the wall. Or see if the wire goes
through j-boxes.
If you trace all 3 outlets you can see where the wires come together.
That is probably where there is a bad splice in the wires that are
open which you are not tracing.

Some of the above is hazardous. I assume you are reasonably competent.

Tone tracers, which several posts have mentioned, might work. It is a
common piece of equipment for phone techs, if you know one. I haven’t
used one to trace power wires. It should be connected to an open wire.
The tracer looks for an electric field from the wire being traced.
(The tracer above looks for a magnetic field from the wire being
traced.)

To state the obvious, if the wiring might be in an attic searching
there may be useful.

Toward the end of possibilities you can put holes in the wall and look
in with a mirror flexibly attached to the end of a stick (a common
tool). You can follow the wire. With careful use of flashlight and
mirror you can look in the whole cavity (if there is no insulation).
This is obviously a major PITA. Tracing this kind of problem is a
PITA.

--
bud--