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knob and tube
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knob and tube
On Oct 17, 4:03*pm, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenanwww.trustasc.com very dangerous. http://www.kitchenspro.com |
knob and tube
"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message ... How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Like any type of wiring in a home, it depends upon it's condition and what it's being used for. If it's an original installation, that hasn't been modified over the years, and is only used for lamps and such, it is probably fine |
knob and tube
On Oct 17, 4:03*pm, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenanwww.trustasc.com It apparently has served for a long time without failing. Actually it is a very good system, but it is not as good, in many ways, as the current system. The main problem is any that is still in service is very old. Some parts of the system may be suffering from age. It is not likely that it has the capacity for typical current needs. It is also true that few people have any experience with it so maintenance is a problem. In short, I would advice replacing it anytime you have access to do so. I recommend replacing all parts of any circuit at the same time. if someone sees one part modern, they may assume the rest is modern and that could be very bad. As I recall, you can leave it as is if it is not touched, but you can't make changes to it other than to eliminate it. I once faced this about 40 years ago in my own home, and I replaced it all. Some of the wires likely are still there, but they are no longer connected. |
knob and tube
RBM wrote: "Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message ... How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Like any type of wiring in a home, it depends upon it's condition and what it's being used for. If it's an original installation, that hasn't been modified over the years, and is only used for lamps and such, it is probably fine K&T wiring if it's intact as noted and not over fused is physically safe. Unfortunately most K&T installations are not intact, and have been over fused, so your insurance company will typically panic at the mere mention of K&T. Considering the limitations of K&T for supporting modern energy intensive living and the insurance hassles, it's best to replace the K&T. |
knob and tube
Not dangerous at all if it's original, not messed with and still has the
proper fusing in place. Actually a very good system if left alone. s "Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message ... How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com |
knob and tube
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install knob and tube wiring? If the answer is no, then why would you consider keeping it in your existing home? We replaced ours years ago and were thrilled to see it gone. No more worries about plugging in too many things at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. Plus we got a break on our insurance premiums as well. Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment. |
knob and tube
On Oct 17, 10:28�pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install knob and tube wiring? �If the answer is no, then why would you consider keeping it in your existing home? �We replaced ours years ago and were thrilled to see it gone. �No more worries about plugging in too many things at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. �Plus we got a break on our insurance premiums as well. �Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment. Many homeowner companies including state farm wouldnt provide new policies for homes with K&T. or if you can find a policxy it might cost many times a home with modern wiring, same thing applies to homes with fuse boxes,,,,,,,, K&T hadd few outlets none with grounds, perhaps one outlet per room. leads to over use of extension cords, trip hazards, damaged extension cords can cause fires too. now before people post its great the best wiring ever installed. let me ask one question in 75 years how many new cars have you bought, arent newer ones safer and better? K&T had no boxes, exposed connections in walls if overheatred can cause fires,,, and lastly you cant insulate homes with K&T the lines are desiogned to be in free air to prevent overheating..... |
knob and tube
On Oct 17, 10:28*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install knob and tube wiring? *If the answer is no, then why would you consider keeping it in your existing home? *We replaced ours years ago and were thrilled to see it gone. *No more worries about plugging in too many things at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. *Plus we got a break on our insurance premiums as well. *Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment. I would consider installing it, but for one factor. It is much more labor intensive to install. Modern cable wiring is easier to install. It also is far easier to find materials. With proper sizing of conductors to meet modern power demands and if proper best practices were used it would be safe. That said, those situations don't exist in most areas and as I have done and would do in the future, if I had K&T I would replace it as the opportunities presented themselves. |
knob and tube
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. |
knob and tube
On Oct 18, 9:16�am, Claude Hopper
wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... trips falls breaks hip and dies. now theres a killer claim |
knob and tube
On Oct 18, 9:42�am, " wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... trips falls breaks hip and dies. now theres a killer claim incidently aunt mary ends up spending 5 years in a nursing home before finally dying 60 grand a year, $300,000 just for nursing home. the K&T ends up costing the insurance company 3 million dollars..... policy cost 400 bucks so do you still wonder why insurance doesnt want K&T |
knob and tube
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:28:20 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote: [snip] Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside and receptacles in the bathroom ) made it a good investment. -- 68 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." |
knob and tube
Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - link please:) |
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knob and tube
On Oct 18, 3:20�pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
wrote: Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - link please:) What is "Jewish lightening", the Mossad workout? -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) i wondered what it was too........... |
knob and tube
better yet, how about a link showing where K&T DID cause a fire at all.
s wrote in message ... Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - link please:) |
knob and tube
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. .. I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm or http://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. .. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... .. Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- |
knob and tube
"bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. .. I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm or http://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. .. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... .. Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb |
knob and tube
On Oct 19, 7:23*am, "RBM" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm *orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues |
knob and tube
wrote in message ... On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote: "bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance |
knob and tube
On Oct 19, 9:41 am, " wrote:
On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote: "bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........ . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ^ ^ ^ ^ you can't edit this garbage out??? not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... .. Repeating: Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. Apparently you think I should replace all the rigid pipe in my house. .. the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues .. As Roy said.... -- bud-- |
knob and tube
On Oct 19, 12:00*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote: "bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........ . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. |
knob and tube
outlets are not required every 6 feet
s wrote in message ... not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues |
knob and tube
and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them?
it sure as hell is not 6 feet. s wrote in message ... no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. |
knob and tube
wrote in message ... On Oct 19, 12:00 pm, "RBM" wrote: wrote in message ... On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote: "bud--" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc....... the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. I have no idea as to what you are, however, you constantly post incorrect information and personal opinion as fact |
knob and tube
Steve Barker DLT wrote: and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them? it sure as hell is not 6 feet. s wrote in message ... no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. Yes, and that works out to up to 12' spacing between outlets. |
knob and tube
On Oct 19, 4:13�pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Steve Barker DLT wrote: and so...... mathmatician..... �how far apart DOES that make them? it sure as hell is not 6 feet. s wrote in message .... no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. Yes, and that works out to up to 12' spacing between outlets. yeah in every K&T home I have ever been in most are lucky to have a single outlet per room, are ioverfused cause the proper 15 amp fuse will blow constantly, and have floor outlets. have a friend who had a small fire when his son dropped some stuff in a floor oiutlet. also have had 3 friends who had to get rid of all k&T when theiur homeowners insurance changed. the company sent inspector, one got sitred for a detoriated porch, steps will no railing in front of home and a bad sidewalk. once cancelled by one company no one else wanted him, so he had the work done |
knob and tube
It's only dangerous if it's used to carry electrical current.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "DGDevin" wrote in message m... Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install knob and tube wiring? If the answer is no, then why would you consider keeping it in your existing home? We replaced ours years ago and were thrilled to see it gone. No more worries about plugging in too many things at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. Plus we got a break on our insurance premiums as well. Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment. |
knob and tube
On Oct 17, 10:28*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install knob and tube wiring? *If the answer is no, then why would you consider keeping it in your existing home? *We replaced ours years ago and were thrilled to see it gone. *No more worries about plugging in too many things at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. *Plus we got a break on our insurance premiums as well. *Rewiring a house isn't cheap, but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment. Thanks for your reply, but I should clarify that I have replaced all of the K&T to the outlets but being that the house has plaster walls I didn't want to cut holes in order to run the wiring to the lights. I have heard mixed reviews as to whether the K&T is safe just for the lights. |
knob and tube
On Oct 18, 7:59*pm, bud-- wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm *orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of lighting only. Kenan www.trustasc.com |
knob and tube
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:07:29 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote: and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them? it sure as hell is not 6 feet. s wrote in message ... no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. What about a little section of wall between doors? -- 66 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." |
knob and tube
On Oct 20, 9:40 am, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote: On Oct 18, 7:59 pm, bud-- wrote: On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........ . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of lighting only. .. I wouldn't worry about it. If grounding of lights is an issue (might be in kitchen or bathroom) you might want fixtures with no exposed metal or GFCI circuits. If I had K&T I would replace it as opportunities arose (as someone else suggested). (Although K&T may cause deteriorated porches, steps will no railings and a bad sidewalks.) -- bud-- |
knob and tube
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:07:29 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT" wrote: and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them? it sure as hell is not 6 feet. s wrote in message ... no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a DIY, not a electrician. What about a little section of wall between doors? -- 66 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." In habitable rooms like a bedroom, any wall space two feet or larger is required to have an outlet |
knob and tube
"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message ... On Oct 18, 7:59 pm, bud-- wrote: On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote: On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote: How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? Kenan www.trustasc.com Your insurance company will know. Most insurance companies are jack asses. insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary. primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly. . I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures). A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190 is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.) http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/ ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7 is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal". (Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”) IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. . secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room....... . Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe. -- bud-- This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of lighting only. Kenan www.trustasc.com K&T at lighting locations can be tricky. Each location must be evaluated separately. If high wattage fixtures that hung close to the ceiling or wall were used, it may have been baked to the point that the insulation crumbles off. If fixtures that stood off of the surface were used, the stuff can be as supple as the day it was installed. In any case you want to limit the load attached to it, and as Bud recommends, replace it as the opportunity arises. |
knob and tube
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home? It depends on where it is and what you have connected to the circuit. For example, if it is covered by insulation in an attic or some such place, you should replace it as it may overheat. You're probably OK with typical lights and low-power devices connected to such a circuit, but I'd worry about large and/or high-power devices. |
knob and tube
any section between doors more than 2 feet must have an outlet.
s "Mark Lloyd" wrote in message ... What about a little section of wall between doors? -- 66 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." |
knob and tube
I had a CLOSE call about 11 years ago. it was the middle of the night.
I woke up to go to bathroom and realized i had lost my pillow, so i turned overhead light on as I walked out of the room, to avoid being blinded by brite light. anyhow heard crackling, saw brite flashes on wall. turned switch off, and spent rest of night awake. next morning i disassembled overhead light. the cloth cothered wiring insulation had failed, it was about 50 years old at thaty time, and arcked to base......... once you have such a close call it gives one a new outlook on safety/ the shower of sparks had fallen directly on the bed clothes, which i tossed out the window. so detoriated insulation on a overhead lamp can be a big safety hazard |
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