How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


Kenan
www.trustasc.com

On Oct 17, 4:03*pm, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenanwww.trustasc.com

very dangerous.

http://www.kitchenspro.com

"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message
...
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Like any type of wiring in a home, it depends upon it's condition and what
it's being used for. If it's an original installation, that hasn't been
modified over the years, and is only used for lamps and such, it is probably
fine

On Oct 17, 4:03*pm, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenanwww.trustasc.com

It apparently has served for a long time without failing.

Actually it is a very good system, but it is not as good, in many
ways, as the current system. The main problem is any that is still in
service is very old. Some parts of the system may be suffering from
age. It is not likely that it has the capacity for typical current
needs. It is also true that few people have any experience with it so
maintenance is a problem.

In short, I would advice replacing it anytime you have access to do
so. I recommend replacing all parts of any circuit at the same time.
if someone sees one part modern, they may assume the rest is modern
and that could be very bad.

As I recall, you can leave it as is if it is not touched, but you
can't make changes to it other than to eliminate it.

I once faced this about 40 years ago in my own home, and I replaced
it all. Some of the wires likely are still there, but they are no
longer connected.

RBM wrote:

"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message
...
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Like any type of wiring in a home, it depends upon it's condition and what
it's being used for. If it's an original installation, that hasn't been
modified over the years, and is only used for lamps and such, it is probably
fine

K&T wiring if it's intact as noted and not over fused is physically
safe. Unfortunately most K&T installations are not intact, and have been
over fused, so your insurance company will typically panic at the mere
mention of K&T. Considering the limitations of K&T for supporting modern
energy intensive living and the insurance hassles, it's best to replace
the K&T.

Not dangerous at all if it's original, not messed with and still has the
proper fusing in place.

Actually a very good system if left alone.


s


"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message
...
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some
legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install
knob and tube wiring? If the answer is no, then why would you consider
keeping it in your existing home? We replaced ours years ago and were
thrilled to see it gone. No more worries about plugging in too many things
at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. Plus we got
a break on our insurance premiums as well. Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment.

On Oct 17, 10:28�pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some
legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install
knob and tube wiring? �If the answer is no, then why would you consider
keeping it in your existing home? �We replaced ours years ago and were
thrilled to see it gone. �No more worries about plugging in too many things
at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. �Plus we got
a break on our insurance premiums as well. �Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment.

Many homeowner companies including state farm wouldnt provide new
policies for homes with K&T. or if you can find a policxy it might
cost many times a home with modern wiring,

same thing applies to homes with fuse boxes,,,,,,,,

K&T hadd few outlets none with grounds, perhaps one outlet per room.
leads to over use of extension cords, trip hazards, damaged extension
cords can cause fires too.

now before people post its great the best wiring ever installed.

let me ask one question in 75 years how many new cars have you bought,
arent newer ones safer and better?

K&T had no boxes, exposed connections in walls if overheatred can
cause fires,,,

and lastly you cant insulate homes with K&T the lines are desiogned
to be in free air to prevent overheating.....

On Oct 17, 10:28*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some
legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install
knob and tube wiring? *If the answer is no, then why would you consider
keeping it in your existing home? *We replaced ours years ago and were
thrilled to see it gone. *No more worries about plugging in too many things
at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. *Plus we got
a break on our insurance premiums as well. *Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment.

I would consider installing it, but for one factor. It is much
more labor intensive to install. Modern cable wiring is easier to
install. It also is far easier to find materials. With proper sizing
of conductors to meet modern power demands and if proper best
practices were used it would be safe.

That said, those situations don't exist in most areas and as I
have done and would do in the future, if I had K&T I would replace it
as the opportunities presented themselves.

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

On Oct 18, 9:16�am, Claude Hopper
wrote:
Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

trips falls breaks hip and dies. now theres a killer claim

On Oct 18, 9:42�am, " wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

trips falls breaks hip and dies. now theres a killer claim

incidently aunt mary ends up spending 5 years in a nursing home before
finally dying

60 grand a year, $300,000 just for nursing home.

the K&T ends up costing the insurance company 3 million dollars.....

policy cost 400 bucks

so do you still wonder why insurance doesnt want K&T

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:28:20 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote:

[snip]

Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside

and receptacles in the bathroom

) made it a good investment.

--
68 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


link please

wrote:
Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


link please

What is "Jewish lightening", the Mossad workout?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Oct 18, 3:20�pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
wrote:
Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

link please

What is "Jewish lightening", the Mossad workout?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

i wondered what it was too...........

better yet, how about a link showing where K&T DID cause a fire at all.


s


wrote in message
...


Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


link please

On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.
..
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
or
http://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining.
..
secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......
..
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

"bud--" wrote in message
...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.
..
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
or
http://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining.
..
secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......
..
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb

On Oct 19, 7:23*am, "RBM" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message

...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:



On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
*orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message

...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:



On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really
ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance

On Oct 19, 9:41 am, " wrote:
On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote:



"bud--" wrote in message

...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
^ ^ ^ ^ you can't edit this garbage out???


not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......
..
Repeating:
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

Apparently you think I should replace all the rigid pipe in my house.
..
the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues
..
As Roy said....

--
bud--

On Oct 19, 12:00*pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote:





"bud--" wrote in message

...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really
ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.

outlets are not required every 6 feet

s


wrote in message
...


not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them?


it sure as hell is not 6 feet.


s


wrote in message
...


no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.

wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 12:00 pm, "RBM" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Oct 19, 7:23 am, "RBM" wrote:





"bud--" wrote in message

...
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your
home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primaryK&Thas a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
sayK&Tis ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration onk&texcept maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links onK&T(originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existingK&Twiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number ofK&Tinstallations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based onK&Twiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment ofK&Thouses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung
across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacingK&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb- Hide
quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires
etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You
really
ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.

I have no idea as to what you are, however, you constantly post incorrect
information and personal opinion as fact

Steve Barker DLT wrote:

and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them?

it sure as hell is not 6 feet.

s

wrote in message
...

no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.

Yes, and that works out to up to 12' spacing between outlets.

On Oct 19, 4:13�pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Steve Barker DLT wrote:

and so...... mathmatician..... �how far apart DOES that make them?

it sure as hell is not 6 feet.

s

wrote in message
....

no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.

Yes, and that works out to up to 12' spacing between outlets.

yeah in every K&T home I have ever been in most are lucky to have a
single outlet per room, are ioverfused cause the proper 15 amp fuse
will blow constantly, and have floor outlets. have a friend who had a
small fire when his son dropped some stuff in a floor oiutlet.

also have had 3 friends who had to get rid of all k&T when theiur
homeowners insurance changed. the company sent inspector, one got
sitred for a detoriated porch, steps will no railing in front of home
and a bad sidewalk.

once cancelled by one company no one else wanted him, so he had the
work done

It's only dangerous if it's used to carry electrical current.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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..


"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some
legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install
knob and tube wiring? If the answer is no, then why would you consider
keeping it in your existing home? We replaced ours years ago and were
thrilled to see it gone. No more worries about plugging in too many things
at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. Plus we got
a break on our insurance premiums as well. Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment.

On Oct 17, 10:28*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Ask yourself this: if you were building a new home that because of some
legal quirk was not subject to today's building codes, would you install
knob and tube wiring? *If the answer is no, then why would you consider
keeping it in your existing home? *We replaced ours years ago and were
thrilled to see it gone. *No more worries about plugging in too many things
at once or adding outlets where we needed them, what a relief. *Plus we got
a break on our insurance premiums as well. *Rewiring a house isn't cheap,
but the peace of mind (not to mention the convenience of things like lights
in closets or motion sensor lights outside) made it a good investment.

Thanks for your reply, but I should clarify that I have replaced all
of the K&T to the outlets but being that the house has plaster walls I
didn't want to cut holes in order to run the wiring to the lights. I
have heard mixed reviews as to whether the K&T is safe just for the
lights.

On Oct 18, 7:59*pm, bud-- wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
*orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the
outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the
lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster
to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of
lighting only.

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:07:29 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them?


it sure as hell is not 6 feet.


s


wrote in message
...


no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.


What about a little section of wall between doors?
--
66 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

On Oct 20, 9:40 am, Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:
On Oct 18, 7:59 pm, bud-- wrote:

On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room........

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.


This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the
outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the
lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster
to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of
lighting only.

..
I wouldn't worry about it. If grounding of lights is an issue (might
be in kitchen or bathroom) you might want fixtures with no exposed
metal or GFCI circuits.

If I had K&T I would replace it as opportunities arose (as someone
else suggested).

(Although K&T may cause deteriorated porches, steps will no railings
and a bad sidewalks.)

--
bud--

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:07:29 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

and so...... mathmatician..... how far apart DOES that make them?


it sure as hell is not 6 feet.


s


wrote in message
...


no section of wall will be more than 6 feet from a outlet.... I am a
DIY, not a electrician.


What about a little section of wall between doors?
--
66 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

In habitable rooms like a bedroom, any wall space two feet or larger is
required to have an outlet

"Zippy the Wonder Turtle" wrote in message
...
On Oct 18, 7:59 pm, bud-- wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:42 am, " wrote:

On Oct 18, 9:16 am, Claude Hopper
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Zippy the Wonder Turtle
wrote:

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

Your insurance company will know.

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and
secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

.
I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here
say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation
deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the
j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) a
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=7190
is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community
Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No
record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations
that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments
are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200408250...maine.gov/pfr/
ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm
orhttp://tinyurl.com/297uk7
is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by
a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied
renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was
ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no
justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se
automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with “Your insurance company will know.”)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining.
. secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across
middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

.
Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My
house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and
it was wired in rigid pipe.

--
bud--

This is a great reply, but I should clarify that the K&T to the
outlets has all been replaced but I have not replaced the K&T to the
lighting because of the hassle of having to cut holes in the plaster
to run new wiring. Is it safe to keep the K&T for the purposes of
lighting only.

Kenan
www.trustasc.com

K&T at lighting locations can be tricky. Each location must be evaluated
separately. If high wattage fixtures that hung close to the ceiling or wall
were used, it may have been baked to the point that the insulation crumbles
off. If fixtures that stood off of the surface were used, the stuff can be
as supple as the day it was installed. In any case you want to limit the
load attached to it, and as Bud recommends, replace it as the opportunity
arises.

Zippy the Wonder Turtle wrote:
How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?


It depends on where it is and what you have connected to the circuit. For
example, if it is covered by insulation in an attic or some such place, you
should replace it as it may overheat. You're probably OK with typical
lights and low-power devices connected to such a circuit, but I'd worry
about large and/or high-power devices.

any section between doors more than 2 feet must have an outlet.

s


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...


What about a little section of wall between doors?
--
66 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

I had a CLOSE call about 11 years ago. it was the middle of the night.
I woke up to go to bathroom and realized i had lost my pillow, so i
turned overhead light on as I walked out of the room, to avoid being
blinded by brite light.

anyhow heard crackling, saw brite flashes on wall.

turned switch off, and spent rest of night awake.

next morning i disassembled overhead light.

the cloth cothered wiring insulation had failed, it was about 50 years
old at thaty time, and arcked to base.........

once you have such a close call it gives one a new outlook on safety/

the shower of sparks had fallen directly on the bed clothes, which i
tossed out the window.

so detoriated insulation on a overhead lamp can be a big safety hazard