-google_groups- -google_groups- "We kept Wal-Mart outof our town!"
 

Harry K wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:20 am, George wrote:
Harry K wrote:
On Aug 21, 6:31 am, George wrote:
Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
George wrote:
The contemporary Supercenter dedicates about 1/3 of the store to its
grocery operation. Pre-packaged, consumable food is not subject to
SALES tax in many areas but virtually everything else is. Given they
are not a not-for-profit entity, they pay taxes on their profit. They
pay property tax.
Not in my state. When they want to build a store we obtain the site and
prepare it for them for free (corporate welfare by transferring wealth
from taxpayers) including the infrastructure such non-trivial costs as
utilities, highway interchanges etc and give them a nine year tax
exemption. They *explicitly* do not pay property taxes and they pay a
very reduced corporate franchise tax or whatever that tax is called to
the state. When the nine years is about to run out they move across the
street to restart the nine year clock. The third local walmart is about
to move across the street as I write this.
If this is a BAD THINGtm, perhaps you should express your
dissatisfaction for such accommodation at the ballot box. It is, after
all, your (presumably) elected representatives that are giving the
accommodations. Walmart, and any OTHER business, can ASK for the sun,
moon and stars. Those in the position to GIVE those things are
responsible for the "gift" - not the recipient.
Only a fool would turn down legitimate gifts.
Actually lots of businesses choose not to take the welfare. Would you
proudly announce to your friends you were on welfare?
Also I am only one voter and can call this to the attention of a few
family members and friends. Maybe if just a few people read my words
and think "gee, we have a tiny house and pay $5,000/year property taxes
and Walmart doesn't pay anything" it might get thenm to act differently
at the poll.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And you, of course, are prepared to prove that. Not jsut _say_ it
happens but prove that some business has turned down such a golden
goose.
Harry K
It would take a little work but I could do it. This stuff isn't
published in a neat tidy package. I know the details because I have
friends on planning commissions, friends who are township supervisors,
friends who are principals at an engineering and planning company. All
of whom I know and trust who have shown me documentation and told me
details about projects.

Since you want the proof to be presented to you it is only fair that you
pay for the time and expenses of these people to gather and present it
in whatever form you would like. But since I am quite confident of the
facts here is what I will do. If you pay and they are unable to present
the information I will reimburse your expenses and add $10,000 for your
inconvenience.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Suuurrreeee you will.

Harry K

Actually that was a pretty stupid wager on my part but I was being
generous and didn't include free money for me by requiring you to pay
me. I am absolutely confident of my words just as much as the sun will
rise tomorrow.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
George wrote:

Only a fool would turn down legitimate gifts.

Actually lots of businesses choose not to take the welfare.
Would you proudly announce to your friends you were on welfare?

Certainly not. And I wouldn't accept it.

If I wished to establish a business, and tax breaks were available, I
would most certainly avail myself of them. As I said, only a fool would
decline a legitimate gift - "corporate welfare" if you prefer.

Also I am only one voter and can call this to the attention of a few
family members and friends. Maybe if just a few people read my words
and think "gee, we have a tiny house and pay $5,000/year property taxes
and Walmart doesn't pay anything" it might get thenm to act differently
at the poll.

It might. Of course, most THINKING voters (there are a few) would
realize the folly of the charge that Walmart "doesn't pay anything".

So when we build a new Walmart in my state and give them a explicit nine
year tax exemption what taxes might they be paying?


When in the voting booth, I am more careful to cast my ballot for a
candidate that will appoint judges that will support my interpretation
of the law. I am much less likely to be concerned that an incumbent
supported Tax Increment Financing to the benefit of a particular
incoming business.

Really, so you are OK with Walmart getting corporate welfare any not
paying their own way?

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:

It is entirely possible for a business to be operating within the law
and have an unethical business practice or an unsound business
philosophy or to violate something that falls out outside the capacity
for legal redress and to have a legitimate complaint against them.

Agreed.

One example of a different natu I stopped doing business with Sears
26 years ago when I bought a house and was looking at washers and dryers
and was told that they didn't have any incentive financing for major
appliance purchasers, the reason being, and I quote, "We don't have to
do anything extra to get your business. We're Sears -- you are
automatically going to come to us." I figured that if they felt like
they didn't need to do anything to get my business, they didn't deserve
it, and I have not bought a single thing at Sears department store since

You'll notice how poorly Sears has done in the ensuing years. It's a
reasonable conclusion that your experience was not unique and that the
attitude you describe pervaded the company to its detriment.

You did the right thing (stopped shopping at Sears).

I have the right to complain about Sears' shoddy business philosophy

Absolutely. In fact, you might consider doing so as your DUTY as a
Capitalist.

It seems you are really fixated on the Rush Limbagh version of
capitalism where whatever is done is just OK as long as someone is
making out.

So let me pose a question. Lets say your folks are retired/elderly. You
really aren't in frequent touch with them but one day they sheepishly
admit they lost a significant part of their nest egg because they were
scammed by a broker who was on the fine edge of legality.

Would you immediately ask for at least the phone number of the broker so
you could congratulate him and if not why not?




You cannot tell me that I cannot complain because
they are [not] breaking the law.

Agreed, and I have not been telling you that. However, I am equally
vocal when I believe someone or some thing - including a business for
which I care - is being unfairly maligned.

I think it absolutely stinks that a business feels that they are
doing you a favor by staying in business and that you owe it to
them to shop with them to the point that they take it for granted.

I agree. I contend, however, that Walmart (specifically) has never
employed that concept as corporate practice. They didn't get to be the
world's largest employer and retailer by abusing their customers. If
they did, they would eventually fade as has Sears and K-Mart.

Walmart used to be a good place before Sam died. I think the stores
that have been built since he died have a totally different atmosphere
than the ones that have been around for ages -- at least, when a group
of us were discussing Walmarts all around the country and what made some
of them great and others abysmal, that was the general consensus.
Perhaps you work at one that has been around forever and is totally
different than the one here that was built after Sam died.

I work in Omaha's first Supercenter, but its third store. IIRC, it was
built in 1999 or 2000 - well after Walton died in 1992.

I am skeptical of your contention that newer stores have a "totally
different" atmosphere than older ones. They are all operated and
managed in virtually the same manner with some, minor differences based
on demographics. Indeed, I have patronized more than a few, distant
stores, of varying ages in different communities and notice a specific
sameness among them.

I recall Sam's "Made in USA" campaign that proliferated for a time
before his death. He would surely be disappointed to know the extent to
which that concept has changed.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:33:57 -0400, George
wrote Re "We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!":

h wrote:
"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...

In regards to WM muscling their suppliers way past a fair deal, this
is a must-see for anyone wanting to be a WM supplier

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Wal-Mar...1596743468_0_0

After viewing this expose, I decided I would rather go out of business
than be a WM supplier.

You're more likely to go out of business by becoming a WM supplier.

And for those who would suggest "no one has to sell to Walmart" just
consider the chronology. The deal starts off good, the supplier makes
enough margin to stay in business and keeps expanding. Once Walmart
becomes their major or sole customer they then demand unreasonably cheap
prices. If you have a large investment in a facility you can't afford to
loose major volume because you loose your economy of scale so your only
choice is to do whatever is necessary which includes cheapening the
product, paying Walmart wages, closing the plant and going offshore
depending on what is being manufactured etc.

Good post George. The whole degrading process you described is sadly
illustrated by the documentary in the NetFlix link above. In that
documentary a small mom/pop company makes a massive effort to lower
their costs to become a WM supplier. They went so far as to mortgage
their home to raise the funds necessary to increase their production
facility to meet WM's requirements. They are eventually successful and
at the end of the documentary they are very happy and pleased to be a
new WM supplier although at a very low (but high volume) profit
margin.

I was left wondering:

What happens when WM starts putting the screws to them to lower
prices?

What happens when they can't lower prices anymore and make a profit?

What happens to their moorage then?

How will they compete against slave labor in China?

It's true that the consumer benefits from the low prices ... in the
short term. The documentary title is "The High Cost of Low Price". How
appropriate that title is.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

In article ,
George wrote:
\
And for those who would suggest "no one has to sell to Walmart" just
consider the chronology. The deal starts off good, the supplier makes
enough margin to stay in business and keeps expanding. Once Walmart
becomes their major or sole customer they then demand unreasonably cheap
prices. If you have a large investment in a facility you can't afford to
loose major volume because you loose your economy of scale so your only
choice is to do whatever is necessary which includes cheapening the
product, paying Walmart wages, closing the plant and going offshore
depending on what is being manufactured etc.

But this is hardly new behavior on the part of WM. Again, they got
blinded by the original numbers. Also nothin' new from a corp.
standpoint. Sears did basically the same thing to my Dad in the 70s. Got
him to build nice new plant and then not only took the contract away,
gave it to a subsidiary, but (according to the completely adjudicated
suit) infringed his patents. He went bankrupt soon after the loss of the
contract, but got a lot of money back on the infringement.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

HeyBub wrote:


Right. We must all do our part to save the planet, even if our part is
merely losing sleep.


But obviously we don't know the NIMBY factor involved do we? An example
of that is a location where my buddy owns a machine shop. There are
three similar businesses on the same commercial tract and a small road
leads into the tract. All this existed for over 50 years. Recently a
woman built a home on the access road. Now she is protesting all of
those terrible trucks and getting the TV stations and papers involved
because of the terrible noise and "danger" to her children. The trucks
are normal delivery trucks etc, none of the businesses do anything heavy
duty which would require noisy trucks or high frequency and even if they
did the businesses were there in full view and haven't changed character
since she built the house.


I will be driving through the Wind Gap area either later today or
tomorrow and am curious to see what the recycling plant situation is about.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:37:11 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

[snip]

I wonder what they discover
about the product having opened it that was not apparent from the outer
packaging.


Sometimes the most important features are hidden (particularly on
equipment like DVD recorders where connectors and cables matter).
Packaging often seems designed to hide the important things.

BTW, the last item I found like that was one of these ATSC tuners
(that the $40 coupons are good for). I wasn't going to buy one without
knowing if it had a baseband output (so as to not have to degrade the
signal by passing it through RF). The outside of the package said
NOTHING about that, the inside was hidden, and the display unit was
tied down so I couldn't see the side with the connectors. One sale
lost.

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:57:36 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article
,
Pat wrote:

if you can keep the lights off, say, even half of the time during
summer, it seems like you'd be saving a bundle.

I am skeptical of "a bundle". In fact, I doubt there is any NET
savings, given the considerations I previously listed.

You'd only lose money if they were flashing
on and off every 30 seconds or so.

Let's just say the lights switch on and off frequently enough that, when
working in the store, it is annoying.

I do, however, acknowledge that natural light is physically and
emotionally beneficial. Regardless, I'll have to get used to the "light
show" on partly cloudy days.

They could adjust the thresholds for the automatic light controls, to
lengthen the on-off cycles.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Jim Redelfs wrote:

I am skeptical of your contention that newer stores have a "totally
different" atmosphere than older ones. They are all operated and
managed in virtually the same manner with some, minor differences based
on demographics. Indeed, I have patronized more than a few, distant
stores, of varying ages in different communities and notice a specific
sameness among them.

It was not my contention; it was the consensus drawn of quite a large
number of NG participants as we were discussing Walmarts.

You are in the midwest, yes? I am in California. Sam was gone for a
long time before the first Walmart made its appearance here. I have
been to Walmarts back east as well as out here, and honest, the
atmosphere is different.

I recall Sam's "Made in USA" campaign that proliferated for a time
before his death. He would surely be disappointed to know the extent to
which that concept has changed.

Of that we are in total agreement, and I suspect there would be other
things he wouldn't be happy with, either.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Jim Redelfs wrote:

My work station is directly across from the clock/alarm display. It is
amazing to watch the occasional customer that methodically opens the
carton of literally EVERY model (there are about 4 or 5). Sometimes
they select one and take it away, often not. Sometimes they are able to
get it all back into its box properly, often not. Given this particular
example, simply as an ordinary consumer, I wonder what they discover
about the product having opened it that was not apparent from the outer
packaging.

How loud the alarm is, for one thing.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask if I can see the
insides.

Mark Lloyd wrote:

BTW, the last item I found like that was one of these ATSC tuners
(that the $40 coupons are good for). I wasn't going to buy one without
knowing if it had a baseband output (so as to not have to degrade the
signal by passing it through RF). The outside of the package said
NOTHING about that, the inside was hidden, and the display unit was
tied down so I couldn't see the side with the connectors. One sale
lost.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

George wrote:

I will be driving through the Wind Gap area either later today or
tomorrow and am curious to see what the recycling plant situation is about.

Wind Gap, as in Pennsylvania? *homesick sigh*

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Pat wrote:

There are also some major benefits that people overlook. For one, WM
is a very green company.

It's called "greenwashing." See
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwash". Don't fall for it.

My niece is a product manager at a very large consumer products company
that sells to Wal-Mart. Many of their customers accept products with
minimal packaging, and the company even provides displays that hold the
bulk product. Wal-Mart demands, and gets, the product with more wasteful
packaging than any other customer because it works better with their
stocking system so have items neatly boxed (and plastic wrapped inside
the boxes.

I'm not anti-Wal-Mart, I go there when convenient. But despite hiring a
former Sierra Club board member, they're not "green."

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

AZ Nomad wrote:

Nah. Just get rid of walmart. ****ing hypocrisy. Get rid of them and
the next largest department store will replace them.

My mother has friend who is very anti-Wal-Mart. Last time I was at my
mom's house (which is 3000 miles away) this friend was there, and was
going on and on about Wal-Mart. I told her "I shop there." She said, "oh
Steven, you really shouldn't." So I told her, "I'll make you a deal.
I'll still shop there, but I'll feel bad about it." Now every time we go
into a Wal-Mart my son (11) says to me, "do you feel bad?" I saw this
lady at a party in May, and I told her, "I think of you often."

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
George wrote:

I will be driving through the Wind Gap area either later today or
tomorrow and am curious to see what the recycling plant situation is
about.

Wind Gap, as in Pennsylvania? *homesick sigh*

Yes, I will be going down 33 to meet friends at a gun club they belong
to in Easton (right below next to the Lehigh) to do some shooting.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

George wrote:

Wind Gap, as in Pennsylvania? *homesick sigh*

Yes, I will be going down 33 to meet friends at a gun club they belong
to in Easton (right below next to the Lehigh) to do some shooting.

I grew up in Stroudsburg (well, over the hill from Stroudsburg in Stroud
Township) and lived there until I turned 11, at which point my dad
decided to move, and we came to the San Francisco Bay Area at the height
of the hippie era. Can we say massive culture shock!

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:40:56 -0400, mm
wrote:


c Did they say they would shop at any WM or that they wouldn't shop at

Meant to say, Did they say they would NOT shop at an WM.....

this one, because they resented it being in their town.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:25:56 -0700, Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to
reply wrote:

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask if I can see the
insides.


Any they actually let you? Many just look stupid when asked things
like that.

Anyway, that complicates thing, and it can be easier to find a source
on the internet.

Mark Lloyd wrote:

BTW, the last item I found like that was one of these ATSC tuners
(that the $40 coupons are good for). I wasn't going to buy one without
knowing if it had a baseband output (so as to not have to degrade the
signal by passing it through RF). The outside of the package said
NOTHING about that, the inside was hidden, and the display unit was
tied down so I couldn't see the side with the connectors. One sale
lost.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:29:00 -0700, SMS
wrote:

Pat wrote:

There are also some major benefits that people overlook. For one, WM
is a very green company.

It's called "greenwashing." See
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwash". Don't fall for it.

My niece is a product manager at a very large consumer products company
that sells to Wal-Mart. Many of their customers accept products with
minimal packaging, and the company even provides displays that hold the
bulk product. Wal-Mart demands, and gets, the product with more wasteful
packaging than any other customer because it works better with their
stocking system so have items neatly boxed (and plastic wrapped inside
the boxes.


And the packaging hides important stuff. For ONE EXAMPLE (different
from my other one), I was looking for a USB hub. It really mattered if
it was self powered or bus powered. Nothing printed on the package
said anything about that. One indication would be the presence or a
wall-wart (power supply). The hub itself was in a see-through package,
but the area where the wall-wart would be was hidden. There was no way
to tell if there was a wall-wart in there, or if it was just wasted
space (very common with small computer stuff).

Another sale lost because of the ****** packaging. I got a USB hub at
Best Buy.

I'm not anti-Wal-Mart, I go there when convenient. But despite hiring a
former Sierra Club board member, they're not "green."
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word
in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."
--Bertrand Russell

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

George wrote:


And for those who would suggest "no one has to sell to Walmart" just
consider the chronology. The deal starts off good, the supplier makes
enough margin to stay in business and keeps expanding. Once Walmart
becomes their major or sole customer they then demand unreasonably
cheap prices. If you have a large investment in a facility you can't
afford to loose major volume because you loose your economy of scale
so your only choice is to do whatever is necessary which includes
cheapening the product, paying Walmart wages, closing the plant and
going offshore depending on what is being manufactured etc.

Good story, but I sense a flaw. How is it in Walmart's best interests to
drive it's suppliers out of business?

Walmart DOES send its own experts to its suppliers to show these suppliers
how they can streamline, optimize, and improve their production, back office
techniques, shipping schedules, etc. Techniques that have worked at
thousands of other suppliers.

Some companies, however, may think they know more than Walmart or ignore the
advice.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

George wrote:

Absolutely. In fact, you might consider doing so as your DUTY as a
Capitalist.

It seems you are really fixated on the Rush Limbagh version of
capitalism where whatever is done is just OK as long as someone is
making out.

So let me pose a question. Lets say your folks are retired/elderly.
You really aren't in frequent touch with them but one day they
sheepishly admit they lost a significant part of their nest egg
because they were scammed by a broker who was on the fine edge of
legality.
Would you immediately ask for at least the phone number of the broker
so you could congratulate him and if not why not?


Possibly.

Michael Milken was known as the "Junk Bond King." He was sent to prison for
marketing high-yield, essentially worthless, bonds to finance corporate
mergers and acquisitions.

His "creative" efforts helped launch, MCI, Turner Broadcasting (CNN), AOL,
the cell-phone industry (via Craig McCaw), several of Steve Wynn's Las Vegas
hotels, and other endeavors.

I'm sure some got hurt by his shenanigans (including Milken himself). But
millions more got jobs.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:


Right. We must all do our part to save the planet, even if our part
is merely losing sleep.


But obviously we don't know the NIMBY factor involved do we? An
example of that is a location where my buddy owns a machine shop. There
are
three similar businesses on the same commercial tract and a small road
leads into the tract. All this existed for over 50 years. Recently a
woman built a home on the access road. Now she is protesting all of
those terrible trucks and getting the TV stations and papers involved
because of the terrible noise and "danger" to her children. The trucks
are normal delivery trucks etc, none of the businesses do anything
heavy duty which would require noisy trucks or high frequency and
even if they did the businesses were there in full view and haven't
changed character since she built the house.



Heh!

Several years ago, some new residents of a subdivision near LAX began
protesting noisy aircraft. They insisted that landings and take-offs be
stopped at 9:00 p.m. Insisted, mind you.

They forgot that the Los Angeles airport was a semiautonomous division of
state government. The LAX board of supervisors condemned their property,
bulldozed their houses, and extended the runways. Everybody's problem
solved.

Aside---
I once dated a flight attendant who lived in Inglewood (right next to the
airport). She said one could get used to the noise and a side benefit was
weather predition. You could lie in bed, listen to the planes - either
taking off or landing - and tell whether the wind (and the weather) had
changed during the night.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

on 8/23/2008 12:34 PM SMS said the following:
AZ Nomad wrote:

Nah. Just get rid of walmart. ****ing hypocrisy. Get rid of them and
the next largest department store will replace them.

My mother has friend who is very anti-Wal-Mart. Last time I was at my
mom's house (which is 3000 miles away) this friend was there, and was
going on and on about Wal-Mart. I told her "I shop there." She said,
"oh Steven, you really shouldn't." So I told her, "I'll make you a
deal. I'll still shop there, but I'll feel bad about it." Now every
time we go into a Wal-Mart my son (11) says to me, "do you feel bad?"
I saw this lady at a party in May, and I told her, "I think of you
often."

I only shop at WalMart on days that end in "Y".

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
in the original Orange County
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

on 8/23/2008 12:29 PM SMS said the following:
Pat wrote:

There are also some major benefits that people overlook. For one, WM
is a very green company.

It's called "greenwashing." See
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwash". Don't fall for it.

My niece is a product manager at a very large consumer products
company that sells to Wal-Mart. Many of their customers accept
products with minimal packaging, and the company even provides
displays that hold the bulk product. Wal-Mart demands, and gets, the
product with more wasteful packaging than any other customer because
it works better with their stocking system so have items neatly boxed
(and plastic wrapped inside the boxes.

I'm not anti-Wal-Mart, I go there when convenient. But despite hiring
a former Sierra Club board member, they're not "green."

Yep, the little stores get about a dozen products to sell, but WalMart
gets hundreds. So they want a neater storeroom, like HD and Lowes with
all those big boxes of extra product stored on the top shelf in the aisles.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
in the original Orange County
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:25:56 -0700, Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to
reply wrote:

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask if I can see the
insides.


Any they actually let you? Many just look stupid when asked things
like that.

Yup, they do, but I always explain why I need to see the inside.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
George wrote:


And for those who would suggest "no one has to sell to Walmart" just
consider the chronology. The deal starts off good, the supplier makes
enough margin to stay in business and keeps expanding. Once Walmart
becomes their major or sole customer they then demand unreasonably
cheap prices. If you have a large investment in a facility you can't
afford to loose major volume because you loose your economy of scale
so your only choice is to do whatever is necessary which includes
cheapening the product, paying Walmart wages, closing the plant and
going offshore depending on what is being manufactured etc.

Good story, but I sense a flaw. How is it in Walmart's best interests to
drive it's suppliers out of business?

Walmart DOES send its own experts to its suppliers to show these suppliers
how they can streamline, optimize, and improve their production, back
office techniques, shipping schedules, etc. Techniques that have worked at
thousands of other suppliers.

Some companies, however, may think they know more than Walmart or ignore
the advice.


Read this
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

But I like this story better.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html

Reminds me of our company. We told our largest customer we don't want to
sell to them any more. Our competitor was happy to get the business. One
year later, they filed for bankruptcy, we went on to more profits.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:35:06 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article
,
Harry K wrote:

I suspect "The Tonight Show" will tank within 6 months of the
replacement.

I rarely watch The Tonight Show. Can I assume that Leno has announced
his retirement and that Conan is the announced replacement?

Yes. They announced this a year or two ago and it's not going to
happen for another year.

If yes, I don't agree with your "6 months" prediction.

It will happen sooner.

sigh
JR

As I said, I don't think he's funny either. In fact he's annoying.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

In article ,
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask
if I can see the insides.

Any they actually let you? Many just look stupid when
asked things like that.

Yup, they do, but I always explain why I need to see the inside.

When I worked in the Electronics department, I was occasionally asked by
a customer if they could open the carton. I usually assisted by
opening, then re-closing, the item they were interested in.

Some stuff, like cordless phones, are contained in such tight
(efficient? green?) packaging that it is often difficult to properly
re-contain the product once it is opened. Other merchandise is
virtually "locked" inside a vacuum-formed and seam-welded package.
Opening this type of container requires virtually destroying the
package, usually rendering it unsalable.

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.

"No sir, that printer doesn't come with a USB cable."

"I can tell you from experience that that particular model of cordless
phone system does NOT lay flat against the wall when wall mounted."

"Yes, Ma'am, that digital camera comes with everything you need to shoot
8-12 photos. But, you'll want to purchase a memory card."

More and more packaging contains a [What's In the Box?] label or
description, answering most questions, cutting down on the need to
inspect the inside of a pre-packaged item.
--
:)
JR

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 07:35:28 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask
if I can see the insides.


Please be aware that this is actually a very complex act, which some
people have trouble with.

Any they actually let you? Many just look stupid when
asked things like that.

Yup, they do, but I always explain why I need to see the inside.

When I worked in the Electronics department, I was occasionally asked by
a customer if they could open the carton. I usually assisted by
opening, then re-closing, the item they were interested in.

Some stuff, like cordless phones, are contained in such tight
(efficient? green?) packaging that it is often difficult to properly
re-contain the product once it is opened. Other merchandise is
virtually "locked" inside a vacuum-formed and seam-welded package.
Opening this type of container requires virtually destroying the
package, usually rendering it unsalable.


Yes. I know some people don't like returning those things.

BTW, the last thing I returned was a VCR, and that was in a regular
box.

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


I'd probably get the wrong answer, maybe from some salesperson afraid
to admit to not knowing. The common alternative to looking stupid.

"No sir, that printer doesn't come with a USB cable."


I already have multiple USB cables around. However, the presence of
one in the box would be a clue the printer supports USB (the same way
a wall-wart in the USB hub box indicates it's a powered hub).

"I can tell you from experience that that particular model of cordless
phone system does NOT lay flat against the wall when wall mounted."


I do wish there were more knowledgeable salespeople.

"Yes, Ma'am, that digital camera comes with everything you need to shoot
8-12 photos. But, you'll want to purchase a memory card."


My (camera) was like that. It uses SD cards and came with a very small
one. Also, it lacked rechargeable batteries.

More and more packaging contains a [What's In the Box?] label or
description, answering most questions, cutting down on the need to
inspect the inside of a pre-packaged item.

A lot do. They can still leave out important info. How about a photo
of the BACK of the device (often more important than the front, as it
shows connections)?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:59:43 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 8/23/2008 12:34 PM SMS said the following:
AZ Nomad wrote:

Nah. Just get rid of walmart. ****ing hypocrisy. Get rid of them and
the next largest department store will replace them.

My mother has friend who is very anti-Wal-Mart. Last time I was at my
mom's house (which is 3000 miles away) this friend was there, and was
going on and on about Wal-Mart. I told her "I shop there." She said,
"oh Steven, you really shouldn't." So I told her, "I'll make you a
deal. I'll still shop there, but I'll feel bad about it." Now every
time we go into a Wal-Mart my son (11) says to me, "do you feel bad?"
I saw this lady at a party in May, and I told her, "I think of you
often."

I only shop at WalMart on days that end in "Y".

But never "tomorrow".

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Mark Lloyd wrote:
In article ,
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:

When that happens with me, I find a salesperson and ask
if I can see the insides.

Please be aware that this is actually a very complex act, which some
people have trouble with.


I understand that, but if, for example, I can't listen to the volume of
an alarm that an alarm clock makes, I don't want to buy it, except
possibly if I get a guarantee that I can return it if it's not loud
enough, but I would prefer to know how loud the alarm is before
purchase. A lot of "Loudest alarm" alarm clocks have unbelievably quiet
alarms.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:42:51 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote Re "We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!":


Read this
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

But I like this story better.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html

Great articles. Thanks.

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Aug 23, 10:21*am, mm wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:40:56 -0400, mm
wrote:



c Did they say they would shop at any WM or that they wouldn't shop at

Meant to say, Did they say they would NOT shop at an WM.....



this one, because they resented it being in their town.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Answer: letters to the editor from people I know that I saw in the
Moscow WM. You seem to be on a witch hunt or something.

Harry K

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells
zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

--
aem sends...

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:35:14 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells
zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

Do any of them have such ratings? Can you name a single example?

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:35:14 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.

This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells
zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

Do any of them have such ratings? Can you name a single example?

No idea what the (meaningless on made-in-China generic junk) brand name
was, but the one in my bedroom now said 85 db on the box, which is why I
picked it over the others. (no, I didn't save the box- this was several
years ago.) I'm half-deaf in one ear, and needed one I could hear
through the pillow if I happened to be sleeping on my good ear. I have
found that other than old-style windup alarms, you have to get a 110v
line-powered one. None of the battery-powered ones does more than chirp,
in my experience.

(Goes and looks) Westclox m/n 124721. But I have seen the same basic
clock under other brand names. Their website appears to be dead, so I
guess they are now just another zombie brand name used by one of the
import-export companies.

--
aem sends...

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:35:14 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells

In the first example I gave (one of the DTV converters), they did have
a display model out. However, it was tied down so as to completely
block view of one of the most important parts (the connectors).
Without being able to determine if it had a baseband output, it was
unsuitable (I DO NOT want the signal degraded by the unnecessary use
of RF modulator and tuner).

zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

The ones I've looked at do not. Anyway, it would be meaningless
because of lack of measurement standards (is it measured 5 feet away
or 5 inches, etc...).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:34:53 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:35:14 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells
zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

Do any of them have such ratings? Can you name a single example?

And what is the industry-wide measurement standard which would make
this information useful?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

"We kept Wal-Mart out of our town!"
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:35:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:34:53 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:35:14 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply wrote:
That would keep me from asking to open the box.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In these cases, particularly if I am familiar with the item, before
agreeing to open the item, I will do my best to inform the customer of
the package contents and/or answer their questions that caused them to
ask to see inside.


This is why stores used to have demonstrator models on display- actual
plugged-in working units, not empty shells
zip-tied to the gondolas.

As to the alarm clocks- don't most have the db ratings listed on the box?

Do any of them have such ratings? Can you name a single example?

And what is the industry-wide measurement standard which would make
this information useful?

You aren't aware that sound pressure levels can be measured?
Never heard of the decibel unit?
However, I know of no alarm clock maker that bothers to do so.