generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series 8000, unit has
total running hours under 30.

had it connected to load and suspect the ground post connection wire was not properly
connected to post at other end, ie. bad ground connection may have caused it to turn
off.

after running it on about 2000-2500w load for 30 minutes, lights flickered inside
couple times and then shut off, there were no motors running or starting at the time,
just couple inside lights, fridge, tv and radio, small a/c unit which uses only 1000w,
nothing else was running.

when I ran to the generator, could detect a faint electric burn odor and now suspect I
may have damaged the automatic voltage regulator.

it restarted fine (I did not reconnect to load) and I got 240/120 output voltage from
the connection plug but did not want to put it back on load for fear of making things
worse (?)

is the AVR easy to diagnose and replace? how sensitive are the hondas or generators in
having the proper ground post connection, if that was the cause of the shut down?

"Mark" wrote in message
m...
generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series
8000, unit has total running hours under 30.
First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a
honda generator. Right?

On the three generators I have owned the ground is not connected to
anything, so the generator wouldn't much care about your ground connection.
I believe that is standard on consumer generator; OSHA requires industrial
generators to have the ground connected to the neutral. It should say what
you have on both the generator and the owners manual.
I can't see how a bad ground would affect you in either instance unless you
have a device that sends current to the ground rather then to the neutral;
which would be unusual.

And finally I read through the owner's manual. It doesn't say if the ground
is bonded, nor does it mention having AVR. Are you sure it even has it?
If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have
caused it to stall.
Good luck.

Wade Lippman wrote:
First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a
honda generator. Right?

right, northerntool pro 8000 with honda gx390

If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have
caused it to stall.

you may be thinking of a conventional ac which this is not (inverter system with
variable speed everything, never exceeds 300 watts at startup, 3 amps)

oddly enough, when I've run it the 1st two weeks since new, ac and fridge have
repeatedly cycled and since ac is an inverter, it never causes a surge unlike
conventional systems, max amps well below 20 with all and generator rated above 30
amps

so everything that was running has stayed running previously (over 20 hours in one
continous run) and nothing of the sort occurred.

On Jul 3, 7:31*pm, "Mark" wrote:
Wade Lippman wrote:
First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a
honda *generator. *Right?

right, northerntool pro 8000 with honda gx390

If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have
caused it to stall.

you may be thinking of a conventional ac which this is not (inverter system with
variable speed everything, never exceeds 300 watts at startup, 3 amps)

oddly enough, when I've run it the 1st two weeks since new, ac and fridge have
repeatedly cycled and since ac is an inverter, it never causes a surge unlike
conventional systems, max amps well below 20 with all and generator rated above 30
amps

so everything that was running has stayed running previously (over 20 hours in one
continous run) and nothing of the sort occurred.

How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the
peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w
surge for AC sounds way to low. But its not honda so who knows who
made what as far as quality goes. Was the load balanced with a
transfer panel, how did you hook it up.

ransley wrote:
How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the
peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w
surge for AC sounds way to low.

the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and 7 amps as it
starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and fully variable speed, not
a two or three speed) very slowly and almost never draws more than 450w and 5 amps

fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't a honda gx390
engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily handle this? it certainly has
in the first 20 hours of it's operation and it didn't even speed struggle when things
cycled on and off.

I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data logger when
running under utility power and we tested each circuit separately and multiple
circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded spikes just as they occurred within
thousands of a second fraction so am very confident of the total power draw of
everything that is running when I connect generator.

On Jul 3, 8:12*pm, "Mark" wrote:
ransley wrote:
How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the
peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w
surge for AC sounds way to low.

the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and 7 amps as it
starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and fully variable speed, not
a two or three speed) very slowly and almost never draws more than 450w and 5 amps

fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't a honda gx390
engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily handle this? it certainly has
in the first 20 hours of it's operation and it didn't even speed struggle when things
cycled on and off.

I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data logger when
running under utility power and we tested each circuit separately and multiple
circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded spikes just as they occurred within
thousands of a second fraction so am very confident of the total power draw of
everything that is running when I connect generator.

Unless you confirm the logger is designed for recording a spike you
might use a good handheld meter to verify it

Mark wrote:
ransley wrote:
How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the
peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w
surge for AC sounds way to low.

the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and
7 amps as it starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and
fully variable speed, not a two or three speed) very slowly and almost
never draws more than 450w and 5 amps

fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't
a honda gx390 engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily
handle this? it certainly has in the first 20 hours of it's operation
and it didn't even speed struggle when things cycled on and off.

I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data
logger when running under utility power and we tested each circuit
separately and multiple circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded
spikes just as they occurred within thousands of a second fraction so am
very confident of the total power draw of everything that is running
when I connect generator.
Hmmm,
Inverter running off AC? Conventionally inverter runs off DC for AC device.

Wade Lippman wrote:
First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a
honda generator. Right?

as previously replied, you are correct, northstar 8000 PPG with honda GX390, starter
motor and ignition key included.

am not familiar with how much of a distinguishing feature or how much it matters as to
who puts a label on the outside of the unit, so allow me to ask :

how does a honda GX390 differ from one label to another? they appear to all have the
same 13hp, 6600w-8000w (max) power, 30amp

mine is this one http://www.northerntool.com/download...als/165914.pdf

"Mark" wrote in message
m...
how does a honda GX390 differ from one label to another? they appear to all
have the same 13hp, 6600w-8000w (max) power, 30amp

GX390 is the model number of the engine, not the entire generator. Sombody
(probably somebody in China) mated that Honda engine to a sombody's generator
and added the frame and other parts to make the entire package. You do not have
a Honda generator unit, you have an off-brand generator that happens to sport a
common Honda industrial engine.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, my pressure cleaner (bought at HD) is
the same deal and seems to be just fine.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
m...
how does a honda GX390 differ from one label to another? they appear to all
have the same 13hp, 6600w-8000w (max) power, 30amp

GX390 is the model number of the engine, not the entire generator. Sombody
(probably somebody in China) mated that Honda engine to a sombody's generator
and added the frame and other parts to make the entire package. You do not have
a Honda generator unit, you have an off-brand generator that happens to sport a
common Honda industrial engine.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, my pressure cleaner (bought at HD) is
the same deal and seems to be just fine.

Vaughn





I'll second that- my lawn mower is an off-brand 'Powered by Honda', but
it is not a Honda lawnmower. A genuine Honda lawnmower would have cost
$700, this one cost $325 or so. Engine has held up great with spotty
maintenance and regular abuse. Since there isn't a whole lot else to
break on a lawnmower, I figured I would take the risk and save some money.

--
aem sends...

On Jul 4, 3:21*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
om...
how does a honda GX390 differ from one label to another? they appear to all
have the same 13hp, 6600w-8000w (max) power, 30amp

* *GX390 is the model number of the engine, not the entire generator. *Sombody
(probably somebody in China) mated that Honda engine to a sombody's generator
and added the frame and other parts to make the entire package. *You do not have
a Honda generator unit, you have an off-brand generator that happens to sport a
common Honda industrial engine.

* *That is not necessarily a bad thing, my pressure cleaner (bought at HD) is
the same deal and seems to be just fine.

Vaughn

I'll second that- my lawn mower is an off-brand 'Powered by Honda', but
it is not a Honda lawnmower. A genuine Honda lawnmower would have cost
$700, this one cost $325 or so. Engine has held up great with spotty
maintenance and regular abuse. Since there isn't a whole lot else to
break on a lawnmower, I figured I would take the risk and save some money..

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honda is a good motor, but until recently they only made a commercial
unit good for 2-4000 hrs. The GX might be the new homeowner grade,
good for maybe 300-800 hours.

On Jul 3, 6:03*pm, "Mark" wrote:
generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series 8000, unit has
total running hours under 30.

had it connected to load and suspect the ground post connection wire was not properly
connected to post at other end, ie. bad ground connection may have caused it to turn
off.

after running it on about 2000-2500w load for 30 minutes, lights flickered inside
couple times and then shut off, there were no motors running or starting at the time,
just couple inside lights, fridge, tv and radio, small a/c unit which uses only 1000w,
nothing else was running.

when I ran to the generator, could detect a faint electric burn odor and now suspect I
may have damaged the automatic voltage regulator.

it restarted fine (I did not reconnect to load) and I got 240/120 output voltage from
the connection plug but did not want to put it back on load for fear of making things
worse (?)

is the AVR easy to diagnose and replace? how sensitive are the hondas or generators in
having the proper ground post connection, if that was the cause of the shut down?

The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground? is to
protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut
it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is
another issue, like defect.

ransley wrote:
The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground?

right, I mean the green covered "bolt" with the marking text "Grounding Post" and I've
understood reading the manual that I should always use a heavy gauge copper wire (ie.
14 gauge) and connect it to my 8-ft copper spike buried in the ground (2 ft above, 6
ft buried)

the other "end" of the wire had apparently come off the 2-ft top section and I suspect
could not discharge the powerhead properly while running (I am speculating as I don't
know what else may have caused it to shut down while running)

is to protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut
it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is
another issue, like defect.

sorry, don't quite understand what you write above. It was raining and the unit was
not moved while it was running.

On Jul 3, 7:38*pm, "Mark" wrote:
ransley wrote:
The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground?

right, I mean the green covered "bolt" with the marking text "Grounding Post" and I've
understood reading the manual that I should always use a heavy gauge copper wire (ie.
14 gauge) and connect it to my 8-ft copper spike buried in the ground (2 ft above, 6
ft buried)

the other "end" of the wire had apparently come off the 2-ft top section and I suspect
could not discharge the powerhead properly while running (I am speculating as I don't
know what else may have caused it to shut down while running)

is to protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut
it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is
another issue, like defect.

sorry, don't quite understand what you write above. *It was raining and the unit was
not moved while it was running.

You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not
get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen,
units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed if its not
grounded when the operator touches the generator. I just have my wire
attached to a piece of metal I throw on the ground, and i move it
while the unit runs.

ransley wrote:
You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not
get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen,
units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed

yes, the top of the unit has a kind of lid that protects all parts in such a way that
no water hits any electric parts and the powerhead is located under plastic fuel tank
so also protected from rain

ok, so the grounding wire is simply to protect me and unit would continue to run even
without proper ground wire, got it

not sure then why it decided to turn off this time as I had no new load starting when
this occurred, both fridge and ac were running steadily, not turning off and on when
it decided to flicker lights and shut off.

is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event
without actually connecting to house load?

On Jul 3, 8:05*pm, "Mark" wrote:
ransley wrote:
You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not
get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen,
units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed

yes, the top of the unit has a kind of lid that protects all parts in such a way that
no water hits any electric parts and the powerhead is located under plastic fuel tank
so also protected from rain

ok, so the grounding wire is simply to protect me and unit would continue to run even
without proper ground wire, got it

not sure then why it decided to turn off this time as I had no new load starting when
this occurred, both fridge and ac were running steadily, not turning off and on when
it decided to flicker lights and shut off.

is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event
without actually connecting to house load?

I think you made a big mistake running it in the rain, read your
manual, its not rain-weather proof. Wet air is sucked through the gen
and motor to cool it and 100 humidity was in the panel. The ground rod
might have already have done its job and a direct short or malfunction
from rain might have actualy happened.

"Mark" wrote in message
m...
ransley wrote:
You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not
get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen,
units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed

yes, the top of the unit has a kind of lid that protects all parts in such
a way that
no water hits any electric parts and the powerhead is located under
plastic fuel tank
so also protected from rain

ok, so the grounding wire is simply to protect me and unit would continue
to run even
without proper ground wire, got it

not sure then why it decided to turn off this time as I had no new load
starting when
this occurred, both fridge and ac were running steadily, not turning off
and on when
it decided to flicker lights and shut off.

is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate
the event
without actually connecting to house load?



I would gather up a bunch of blow dryers and electric heaters and add them
up until I got a resistive load about equal to the rated output of the
generator head being conscience of equaling distributing the load on both
legs of the output and see if it can produce the rated output. If you have
a Kill A Watt meter or something that to verify the loads that would be a
plus.

Check the oil level. Even if it was recently serviced that does not
necessarily mean the oil level is not low. If it is a slanted oil fill hole
fill it to where it is almost running out. You can temporarily disconnect
the low oil float switch to check for an intermittant problem. It is
usually a yellow wire.

Visually check for any wires (probably black) or connectors that might be
making contact with ground due to engine vibration.

Sometimes a bad On/Off switch can be intermittant. Most On/Off switches are
open while running and connected to ground to turn off the engine.
Disconnecting it temporarily (probably a black or brown wire) may help
locate an intermittant switch.

Remove the fuel line and check to see if it is flowing easily (use a
suitable container to catch the gas, of course). If not remove the fuel
filter (if it has one) at the tank shut-off valve and clean it. Honda
sometimes uses a filter screen inside the fuel line but probably not on the
GX engine.

Check the air filter.

Check the governor to make sure it is moving freely.

Check and regap the spark plug.

Sometimes a bad ingition module will start and run just fine and then
suddenly stop. Then it will start again.

If you do all this (what I call routine maintenance) and it stll has
problems remove the float bowl from the carburator and check to see if the
float is stuck. Sometimes there will be a little burr on the edges of the
float pivot that can be gently sanded off. There should be a screw near the
bottom of the float bowl for draining out the gas before taking if off.
Turn off the fuel supply first, of course.

Are you doing anything such as connecting this generator to an inverter such
as an OutBack or Xantrex SW?

Maybe the generator doesn't like your inverter AC. Does it work OK with
other comparable loads? None of my microwave ovens work well with any of my
generators. Neither do battery chargers.

Is this thing still under warranty?

is the AVR easy to diagnose and replace? how sensitive are the hondas or
generators in having the proper ground post connection, if that was the
cause of the shut down?

Most gensets have a low oil shutdown and is somewhat common to see this
activate several hours after initial startup.

Mike Copeland wrote:
Most gensets have a low oil shutdown and is somewhat common to see this
activate several hours after initial startup.

the northstar 8000 PPG/ Honda 390GX had just been fully serviced 2 days prior, all new
oil, new battery etc.

it's this unit http://www.northerntool.com/download...als/165914.pdf

after running it on about 2000-2500w load for 30 minutes, lights flickered
inside couple times and then shut off, there were no motors running or
starting at the time, just couple inside lights, fridge, tv and radio,
small a/c unit which uses only 1000w, nothing else was running.

when I ran to the generator, could detect a faint electric burn odor and
now suspect I may have damaged the automatic voltage regulator.

I would most likely say that your generator just had a glob of water in the
gas tank. It got sucked into the carb and when the motor swallowed it, it
choked and died. Or a bit of dirt or varnish may have broke lose and
temporarily plugged a carb port. Or an ignition module may be flaky and it
quits when it get hot. Or it could be a valve that is sticking a bit because
of varnish buildup from disuse. Normally, when you have a direct short, it
will trip the breaker. A little bit of a burnt oil/electrical smell is
normal on a generator that new. It is just baking out the stuff from the
enamel on the coils.



If it puts out proper voltage, just run the dang thing. And run it hard.
That will get it cleaned out if it's a water or varnish problem. If it's a
ignition coil problem, or oil shut off problem it will become evident with a
little hard use.

If the varnish in the carb is really bad, the carb may have to be cleaned.

If it shuts off at a predictable point while warming up, then it's may be a
flaky ignition coil.

Also try disconnecting the low oil kill wire. Just because the oil is full,
doesn't mean that the switch isn't malfunctioning and killing the engine at
random.

And remember. Hard use, as in 5000W or more. Let the engine breath.

And above and beyond all, it could of just been a some water on the spark
plug. Yes, it has a plastic gas tank above it, but it is not water proof by
a long shot. That type of generator is not designed to be ran in the rain in
any way shape or form. In a good rain, that thing will be soaked.

So just run the dang thing and don't worry about it! :-)