I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Richard

wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.

Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house. Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

--

On Jul 2, 9:38 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.

Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house. Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

--

I am not sure what you mean by small volume. The basement is 1400
square feet, 8 feet high and the floor is 6 feet below grade. Are you
implying that the basement would cool so much that the heat pump would
not work efficiently?
Richard

wrote:
On Jul 2, 9:38 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house. Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

--

I am not sure what you mean by small volume. The basement is 1400
square feet, 8 feet high and the floor is 6 feet below grade. Are you
implying that the basement would cool so much that the heat pump would
not work efficiently?

Of course...what's the volume of the living space you're trying to
heat/cool in comparison? On top of that, since the area is closed,
there's no where for the now heated/cooled air to replenish from so next
cycle you're starting from essentially the ending point of the last.

Every degree you change the temperature in the living area will have to
make a corresponding change in the temperature of an equal air volume
plus the efficiency factor--the old saying of "you can't beat Mother
Nature, the 2nd Law says you can't even break even" is still true.

It simply can not work...

--

On Jul 2, 10:36 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
On Jul 2, 9:38 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house. Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

--

I am not sure what you mean by small volume. The basement is 1400
square feet, 8 feet high and the floor is 6 feet below grade. Are you
implying that the basement would cool so much that the heat pump would
not work efficiently?

Of course...what's the volume of the living space you're trying to
heat/cool in comparison? On top of that, since the area is closed,
there's no where for the now heated/cooled air to replenish from so next
cycle you're starting from essentially the ending point of the last.

Every degree you change the temperature in the living area will have to
make a corresponding change in the temperature of an equal air volume
plus the efficiency factor--the old saying of "you can't beat Mother
Nature, the 2nd Law says you can't even break even" is still true.

It simply can not work...
I am assuming that the replenishment of heat comes from the basement
walls, they are concrete block with no insulation. If the ground in
which they are in contact with is 55 degrees? or so, there would seem
to be a lot of heat transfer if the air in the basement got very
cold.. I will, however, consider what you have said.
Anyway, it was just a thought to try and save fossil fuels and money.
I should have pointed out that my house is very well insulated and we
keep things cool in the winter and supplement my gas furnace with
electric heaters. My total heating bill for last winter was less than
$600.(natural gas at $1.40/therm).
Richard

wrote in message
...
On Jul 2, 10:36 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
On Jul 2, 9:38 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than
the
rest of the house. Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the
best).

--

I am not sure what you mean by small volume. The basement is 1400
square feet, 8 feet high and the floor is 6 feet below grade. Are you
implying that the basement would cool so much that the heat pump would
not work efficiently?

Of course...what's the volume of the living space you're trying to
heat/cool in comparison? On top of that, since the area is closed,
there's no where for the now heated/cooled air to replenish from so next
cycle you're starting from essentially the ending point of the last.

Every degree you change the temperature in the living area will have to
make a corresponding change in the temperature of an equal air volume
plus the efficiency factor--the old saying of "you can't beat Mother
Nature, the 2nd Law says you can't even break even" is still true.

It simply can not work...
I am assuming that the replenishment of heat comes from the basement
walls, they are concrete block with no insulation. If the ground in
which they are in contact with is 55 degrees? or so, there would seem
to be a lot of heat transfer if the air in the basement got very
cold.. I will, however, consider what you have said.
Anyway, it was just a thought to try and save fossil fuels and money.
I should have pointed out that my house is very well insulated and we
keep things cool in the winter and supplement my gas furnace with
electric heaters. My total heating bill for last winter was less than
$600.(natural gas at $1.40/therm).
Richard

You got him to bit twice, be satisfied with that.

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:05:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote Re Heat pump in basement?:

I am assuming that the replenishment of heat comes from the basement
walls, they are concrete block with no insulation.

The replenishment heat from the walls won't be able to conduct from
the earth outside the walls fast enough to keep up with the heat pump.
The "heat" flows like this:

Earth (1) == Basement Walls (2) == Basement Air (3) == Heat Pump
(4)

Heat flow from (1) to (3) will be much slower than from (3) to (4).
The only way to compensate for that would be for the volume of (3) to
be much larger than the volume you are heating.

wrote:
....

I am assuming that the replenishment of heat comes from the basement
walls, they are concrete block with no insulation. If the ground in
which they are in contact with is 55 degrees? or so, there would seem
to be a lot of heat transfer if the air in the basement got very
cold.. I will, however, consider what you have said.

That's nice to assume but don't believe it'll be adequate. No estimate
of the size of house to heat and I'm assuming it's desirable to keep the
basement at something near a habitable condition.

If there is no restriction whatsoever on that, I it could manage to be a
contributor but would imo not be the economical use of the investment.
Of course, besides the size of the heat sink/source issue, the outdoor
unit would noisy if installed in the house.

The ground source, otoh, would be quite economical to operate.

--

dpb wrote:
wrote:
dpb wrote:
wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement?

Good idea, esp if it's damp. If it isn't, you might use a soaker hose and
a solenoid valve and humidistat to keep the basement air 50% RH while you
put a window AC through a stairwell wall, with the warm side in the living
space. The main mechanism for upward heatflow in soil is evaporation from
lower soil layers and vapor movement through voids and condensation above.

Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house...

That's irrelevant, since the heat would come from the ground.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

That also sounds good, with a large cheap swimming pool in the basement with
a thick layer of ice on top and a little fresh water flow as needed. The
Climatemaster 27 is a nice $5K 3-ton water source heat pump with a COP of 5.

It simply can not work...

Balderdash :-)

Nick

On Jul 3, 8:08*am, wrote:
dpb wrote:
wrote:


Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house...

That's irrelevant, since the heat would come from the ground.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. *They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

Nick


That is true, but even without insulation the surface area of the
basement is not large enough to move enough heat. It also is a
problem because over weeks, the temperature of the surrounding ground
will become saturated (heat or cold) and will no longer be efficient.
The standard method is to bury pipes and pump air or liquid though
them. They should cover a large area depending on local ground
conditions and heat - cooling loads.

wrote:
....

It simply can not work...

Balderdash :-)


As proposed as an air-exchange unit w/ the basement volume, no way...

--

On Jul 2, 9:52*pm, " wrote:
On Jul 2, 9:38 pm, dpb wrote:

wrote:
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.

Far too small a volume--you'd heat or cool the basement faster than the
rest of the house. *Not feasible at all.

In that environment, your best bet is ground source of one kind or
another. *They're great--had one (Water Furnace brand, one of the best).

--

I am not sure what you mean by small volume. The basement is 1400
square feet, 8 feet high and the floor is 6 feet below grade. Are you
implying that the basement would cool so much that the heat pump would
not work efficiently?
Richard

That space will warm up as you cool the living area (cool down as
you heat the living area). That means it shortly will become very hot
or cold and will not allow the heat pump to function efficiently.

Your idea is a good one however. It is possible to put long pipes
into the ground and to move air through them to supply the heat pump.
Those pipes need to be about six foot below grade and you need a lot.
Local conditions will determine if the idea will work for you. I
have seen several people around me use that system.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:32:44 -0700, wrote:

I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature in
the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full basement
stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very impractical
to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of installing an air
source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild temperature there
should allow for very efficient heating. Richard

At one time I had a Thermastor heat pump water heater in the basement.
It worked quite well to heat the water. Not only did it dehumidify the
basement efficiently, it also turned it into a walk-in cooler.

Basement temp ended up around 55F.



--

=================================================
Franz Fripplfrappl

it wouldn't take long for the heat pump to remove all the heat from the
basement, then you'd have 32 degree floors and frozen plumbing.

s

wrote in message
...
I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Richard

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:32:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I live in the upper Hudson River Valley(Albany, NY). The temperature
in the winter hovers around 25 degrees for about 2 months. My full
basement stays around 55 degrees. I know that it is considered very
impractical to install it outside. What are the pros and cons of
installing an air source heat pump in the basement? The relative mild
temperature there should allow for very efficient heating.
Richard

It would never work, Think about it, what does a heat pump do? your
basement would end up as cold as outside.

I have basement with over 13,000 square feet w/ 9 feet to upper floor.
When temperature is 0 F outside basement is in low 30's.
Water temperature is in low 40's.
I am wondering if there is enough heat in basement floor & walls to heat 1,000 square feet on upper floor with heat pump.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 3:12:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have basement with over 13,000 square feet w/ 9 feet to upper floor.
When temperature is 0 F outside basement is in low 30's.
Water temperature is in low 40's.
I am wondering if there is enough heat in basement floor & walls to heat 1,000 square feet on upper floor with heat pump.

If you're proposing to try to extract heat from the basement and use it
upstairs when the basement is in the low 30s, it's probably not going to
work. The system won't have to run very long before the basement air
temp drops, you're turning it into a freezer. And the lower it goes,
the less efficient a heat pump is. That is unless the basement is
much larger than the 1000 sq ft. What other choices are there for heat?

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 5:40:58 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 3:12:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have basement with over 13,000 square feet w/ 9 feet to upper floor.
When temperature is 0 F outside basement is in low 30's.
Water temperature is in low 40's.
I am wondering if there is enough heat in basement floor & walls to heat 1,000 square feet on upper floor with heat pump.


snip

That is unless the basement is
much larger than the 1000 sq ft. What other choices are there for heat?


OP, you say your upper level is 1,000 sq feet and the basement is 13,000 sq feet?

Is that a typo?

If it really is a 13:1 ratio, it might work.


m