Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

Hi,

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

Thanks,

Aaron

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

wrote in message
...
Hi,

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

Because you won't be adding more circuits inside the fixture!

With 14 gauge in your wiring (not inside a fixture) there is the chance that
someone will later add more 20 amp circuits because they see the 12 guage
wire and don't realize that there is any 14 gauge in your circuit.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

Yes, but I was proposing is connecting the switch to the fixture (a 4'
run!) with 14 gauge wire. That would essentially make it an extension
of the fixture's own 14 guage. Why is that not legitimate. If the
answer is that "the code tries to be overprotective", I'll accept
that. But I want to make sense out of it.

Thanks.

Aaron

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

wrote in message
...
Yes, but I was proposing is connecting the switch to the fixture (a 4'
run!) with 14 gauge wire. That would essentially make it an extension
of the fixture's own 14 guage. Why is that not legitimate. If the
answer is that "the code tries to be overprotective", I'll accept
that. But I want to make sense out of it.

Because the fixture will be at a junction box... Wiring could get added from
this box to a new circuit.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

On Jun 3, 3:17*am, "Calab" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Yes, but I was proposing is connecting the switch to the fixture (a 4'
run!) with 14 gauge wire. That would essentially make it an extension
of the fixture's own 14 guage. Why is that not legitimate. If the
answer is that "the code tries to be overprotective", I'll accept
that. But I want to make sense out of it.

Because the fixture will be at a junction box... Wiring could get added from
this box to a new circuit.

The fixture's junction box is _inside_ the fixture. Are you suggesting
that someone might add a new circiut downstream from the fixture? That
would be far fetched.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

"Calab" wrote in message
news:Wd61k.2403$gc5.1343@pd7urf2no...

wrote in message
...
Yes, but I was proposing is connecting the switch to the fixture (a 4'
run!) with 14 gauge wire. That would essentially make it an extension
of the fixture's own 14 guage. Why is that not legitimate. If the
answer is that "the code tries to be overprotective", I'll accept
that. But I want to make sense out of it.

Because the fixture will be at a junction box... Wiring could get added
from this box to a new circuit.

The wiring in the fixture probably wasn't even #14, as the fixture
manufacturers use wires sizes only large enough for the loads on them, and
don't have a minimum trade size of #14. They are also governed by a
different code than the building wiring

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

On Jun 3, 6:40�am, "RBM" wrote:
"Calab" wrote in message

news:Wd61k.2403$gc5.1343@pd7urf2no...



wrote in message
...
Yes, but I was proposing is connecting the switch to the fixture (a 4'
run!) with 14 gauge wire. That would essentially make it an extension
of the fixture's own 14 guage. Why is that not legitimate. If the
answer is that "the code tries to be overprotective", I'll accept
that. But I want to make sense out of it.

Because the fixture will be at a junction box... Wiring could get added
from this box to a new circuit.

The wiring in the fixture probably wasn't even #14, as the fixture
manufacturers use wires sizes only large enough for the loads on them, and
don't have a minimum trade size of #14. They are also governed by a
different code than the building wiring



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do admit its wierd, a great example you can plug a 4 0r even 16
gauge extension cord in a 20 amp outlet..........

and probbly have a nice fire........

have customers who try that:(

one in a mall put a groundung adapter in line oin a 16 gauge lamp cord
extension cord and plugged in their 18 amp seal press, appearance
before function or safety.

this in a mall.

I warned them, documented the hazard on my service slip and left.

6 months later they called again, having new problem.

they had responded to my safety issuem by stapling the lamp cord to a
carpeted wall:(

I fixed the machine left it heating, and went shopping for a air
conditioner extension cord which I gave them FREE.

came back removed light cord cut into pieces and tossed in trash.

the manager was MAD, We cant pay for the new cord.........

I told them its FREE, my contribution so the mall doesnt burn down or
someone get killed, espically a customer..... they could walk by the
area.

hey the paperwork for the fire reports will cost more than the
extension cord

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

i use a 12 guage , but have heard that 10 guage and 14 guage shotguns
used to be popular , but not anymore.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

In article
,
wrote:

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

Only one with full access to the latest National Electric Code would be
qualified to address this, but I think you are OK/right.

I recall (Kitchen?) where a 15-amp-rated device or wire is allowed for
short-run purposes with 20-amp overcurrent protection.

It has been YEARS since I bought a current copy of the code. Perhaps
it's time again, but it's too much money for it every time I look.
--
sigh
JR

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

Only one with full access to the latest National Electric Code would be
qualified to address this, but I think you are OK/right.

Nope. Caleb and RBM are right.


I recall (Kitchen?) where a 15-amp-rated device or wire is allowed for
short-run purposes with 20-amp overcurrent protection.

15A wire - no.

A 15A duplex receptacle is rated for 20A total from both halves.


It has been YEARS since I bought a current copy of the code. Perhaps
it's time again, but it's too much money for it every time I look.

An old NEC probably has the same rules on this. The NEC is available online.

--
bud--

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

On Jun 3, 1:39*am, wrote:
Hi,

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

Thanks,

Aaron

If you want twisted logic, I'd bet it has more to do with distance.
The greater the load AND the longer the distance, the bigger wire you
need. The larger wire is needed on the feed to carry enough current
to the heater. If you ran the #14 the entire distance, it would be
undersized, considering the distance.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

wrote in message
...
Hi,

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

1) that's the manufacturer's problem, not yours. If it's UL approved then
that's "gud enuf." There is little question that a hard fault across #14
wire will trip a 20 amp breaker so there really isn't much of a safety
concern. Light fixures often have #16 wire inside them. Most extension
cords are only #16.

2) In your PARTICULAR case, if you can you might want to run separate
circuits for the heater and for the lights. You can flip a coin to decide
whether to put the fan on the "light" side or the "heater" side. If the
heater is 10 amps or so, you can power it from #14 and #14 is already OK for
the lights and a small fan. If you use separate feeds in the same fixture
you have to make sure you connect the right neutral wire to the right cable.
Of course, the breaker for #14 circuits must be only 15 amps.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:48:09 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:39:57 -0400, "John Gilmer"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Hi,

I recently asked whether it's OK an a 20amp dedicated circuit intended
for a heater/fan/n.light/light combination to run 14 gauge wire from
the switch to the fixture, except for the heater part. And of course,
the answer was "no" because you are not suppose to use 14 guage wire
on a 20 amp circuit.

But the wire in the fixture is 14 gauge! (Except for the heater part.
There are three 14 gauge and one 12 gauge pairs inside the fixture.)
How is that not breaking the code on the part of the manufacturer?

1) that's the manufacturer's problem, not yours. If it's UL approved then
that's "gud enuf." There is little question that a hard fault across #14
wire will trip a 20 amp breaker so there really isn't much of a safety
concern. Light fixures often have #16 wire inside them. Most extension
cords are only #16.

2) In your PARTICULAR case, if you can you might want to run separate
circuits for the heater and for the lights. You can flip a coin to decide
whether to put the fan on the "light" side or the "heater" side. If the
heater is 10 amps or so, you can power it from #14 and #14 is already OK for
the lights and a small fan. If you use separate feeds in the same fixture
you have to make sure you connect the right neutral wire to the right cable.
Of course, the breaker for #14 circuits must be only 15 amps.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


Please note that the filiment wire in a perfectly safe and legal 100
watt incandescent light bulb is no where near 14 gauge!


Irrelevent. 100W incadecent lights aren't used to carry current to 2000W loads.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

In article ,
bud-- wrote:

The NEC is available online.

If I recall correctly, NFPA charges A LOT to access the NEC on-line.

I'd rather pay the difference, whatever it might be, and get a hard
copy. Still, that, also, is too expensive considering I have no
PROFESSIONAL need to purchase such a reference.
--
:)
JR

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

I guess you aren't following this thread very carefully. The poster
was wondering why the wiring inside a fixture did not have to be as
large as the circuit TO the fixture. My point is that the code
specifies wire gauge in the supply circuit, not inside devices.

Actually, the OP wants to know why he can't use 14 gauge wiring on a 20 amp
circuit.

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

In article -
media.com on Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:09:30 -0500, Jim Redelfs wrote:

If I recall correctly, NFPA charges A LOT to access the NEC on-line.

It's available on-line for *free*.

2008 NEC:
http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_a....asp?id=7008SB


2005 NEC:
http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_a....asp?id=7005SB


--
Seth Goodman

Let me belabor the 12 gauge - 14 guage discussion
 

On 6/3/2008 8:26 PM Seth Goodman spake thus:

In article -
media.com on Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:09:30 -0500, Jim Redelfs wrote:

If I recall correctly, NFPA charges A LOT to access the NEC on-line.

It's available on-line for *free*.

2008 NEC:
http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_a....asp?id=7008SB

Sure, if you don't mind the ridiculous restrictions of "RealRead". (In
all fairness, it's probably the only reasonable choice they had to
publish it online; if they simply made PDFs available, I'm sure that
would cut significantly into their hardcopy sales.)


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill